Shut out once again. Ten Club, I would like an explanation

CaptainB

OceansJenny said:

CaptainB said:

KC2917 said:

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name. 
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too. 

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

That doesn’t explain the people with first and second priority shows getting shut out while people with lower priorities for the same shows got selected. Speculation continues...

I agree, this is the mystery - how does someone with a second priority of a show get tickets and someone with first priority for that show get bonged? Both had reserved seats selected.

User error. We’ve already determined comprehension issues are widespread here.

Meaning what? (Sorry in advance I haven’t read all the posts) if you have confirmation of first priority reserved and someone has confirmation of second priority reserved, and the first person misses while the second is in I guess I’m not seeing user error portion...

JimmyV

CaptainB said:

OceansJenny said:

CaptainB said:

KC2917 said:

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name. 
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too. 

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

That doesn’t explain the people with first and second priority shows getting shut out while people with lower priorities for the same shows got selected. Speculation continues...

I agree, this is the mystery - how does someone with a second priority of a show get tickets and someone with first priority for that show get bonged? Both had reserved seats selected.

User error. We’ve already determined comprehension issues are widespread here.

Meaning what? (Sorry in advance I haven’t read all the posts) if you have confirmation of first priority reserved and someone has confirmation of second priority reserved, and the first person misses while the second is in I guess I’m not seeing user error portion...

We've identified many examples of people entering their picks one at a time rather than altogether, thus disqualifying themselves from all but the last lottery they entered.

CaptainB

JimmyV said:

CaptainB said:

OceansJenny said:

CaptainB said:

KC2917 said:

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name. 
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too. 

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

That doesn’t explain the people with first and second priority shows getting shut out while people with lower priorities for the same shows got selected. Speculation continues...

I agree, this is the mystery - how does someone with a second priority of a show get tickets and someone with first priority for that show get bonged? Both had reserved seats selected.

User error. We’ve already determined comprehension issues are widespread here.

Meaning what? (Sorry in advance I haven’t read all the posts) if you have confirmation of first priority reserved and someone has confirmation of second priority reserved, and the first person misses while the second is in I guess I’m not seeing user error portion...

We've identified many examples of people entering their picks one at a time rather than altogether, thus disqualifying themselves from all but the last lottery they entered.

Ahh, I see. Thanks!

PB11041

I got in where I expected.  I panicked when people started saying they got shut out on BA and others were getting 4 picks with BA, but the only plausible explanation is people failed on the order form somehow, either entering each show one at a time, doing all GA or not having the tenclub email match in the entry form.

BennyLaRue

PB11041 said:

I got in where I expected.  I panicked when people started saying they got shut out on BA and others were getting 4 picks with BA, but the only plausible explanation is people failed on the order form somehow, either entering each show one at a time, doing all GA or not having the tenclub email match in the entry form.

There are a ton of people who, understandably, assumed they got shut out because they haven't received an email yet. It's clear there was some sort of TM mistake that caused a large number of hopefully positive emails to not be sent. Support is telling them to be patient, the selection period isn't done yet.

chukdotcom

BennyLaRue said:

PB11041 said:

I got in where I expected.  I panicked when people started saying they got shut out on BA and others were getting 4 picks with BA, but the only plausible explanation is people failed on the order form somehow, either entering each show one at a time, doing all GA or not having the tenclub email match in the entry form.

There are a ton of people who, understandably, assumed they got shut out because they haven't received an email yet. It's clear there was some sort of TM mistake that caused a large number of hopefully positive emails to not be sent. Support is telling them to be patient, the selection period isn't done yet.

No charge, no tickets IMO.  Regardless of email status.

Lerxst1992

OceansJenny said:

CaptainB said:

KC2917 said:

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name. 
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too. 

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

That doesn’t explain the people with first and second priority shows getting shut out while people with lower priorities for the same shows got selected. Speculation continues...

I agree, this is the mystery - how does someone with a second priority of a show get tickets and someone with first priority for that show get bonged? Both had reserved seats selected.

User error. We’ve already determined comprehension issues are widespread here.

There were some with only one pick where resubmission error isnt known

cincybearcat

benjs said:

KC2917 said:

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name. 
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too. 

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

That doesn’t explain the people with first and second priority shows getting shut out while people with lower priorities for the same shows got selected. Speculation continues...

For what it's worth, if we're down to three options - there's manipulation of the entries, there's a glitch in the system, there's a handful of people who didn't follow the steps properly, I know what I'm speculating based on six years in IT. 

Ah, glitch then. IT sucks

chukdotcom

benjs said:

KC2917 said:

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name. 
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too. 

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

That doesn’t explain the people with first and second priority shows getting shut out while people with lower priorities for the same shows got selected. Speculation continues...

For what it's worth, if we're down to three options - there's manipulation of the entries, there's a glitch in the system, there's a handful of people who didn't follow the steps properly, I know what I'm speculating based on six years in IT. 

PEBKAC

Kevinman

JimmyV said:

They gave us best available - an opportunity to not limit ourselves to either GA or reserved - and people still chose to limit themselves.

Not sure that’s how it works.  Possible, but never saw that explained that way officially.

swany24

I only put in for St. Louis, for one ticket any available seat, and got denied.  I thought my odds would be good to land a ticket, but apparently not.  Hopefully the Ticketmaster pre-sale comes through.

PB11041

BennyLaRue said:

PB11041 said:

I got in where I expected.  I panicked when people started saying they got shut out on BA and others were getting 4 picks with BA, but the only plausible explanation is people failed on the order form somehow, either entering each show one at a time, doing all GA or not having the tenclub email match in the entry form.

There are a ton of people who, understandably, assumed they got shut out because they haven't received an email yet. It's clear there was some sort of TM mistake that caused a large number of hopefully positive emails to not be sent. Support is telling them to be patient, the selection period isn't done yet.

If people have not got an email either way I would very much doubt they actually submitted a ticket request.  I keep seeing people on facebook say they got shut out only to after hours of comments and sniping back and forth they discover these scenarios:

1. they resubmitted to add a show for GA and it wiped out all their other BA choices.
2. they resubmitted to add another BA show and it wiped out all their other BA choices.
3. they thought that when the odds said 99% early on that those where the odds and went all in on GA and consequently lost all shows.
4. they submitted their ticket request on another's ticketmaster account.  ie names did not match

Poncier

OceansJenny said:

CaptainB said:

KC2917 said:

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name. 
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too. 

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

That doesn’t explain the people with first and second priority shows getting shut out while people with lower priorities for the same shows got selected. Speculation continues...

I agree, this is the mystery - how does someone with a second priority of a show get tickets and someone with first priority for that show get bonged? Both had reserved seats selected.

User error. We’ve already determined comprehension issues are widespread here.

Except we've got some folks who put in for 2 shows, won one and lost the other, yet folks with lower priorities won the show that person lost.

So there can't be user error if they were successful on one of their shows as its all submitted in one entry.

We still have some unexplained anomalies.

Would like to hope things get cleared up so folks get a plausible explanation. Some of what happened to certain folks just appears flat out wrong.

BennyLaRue

PB11041 said:

If people have not got an email either way I would very much doubt they actually submitted a ticket request.  I keep seeing people on facebook say they got shut out only to after hours of comments and sniping back and forth they discover these scenarios:

What you're talking about has happened at all shows, for sure. I've been really skeptical of all the claims and have helped a bunch of people understand where they went wrong. But there are hundreds of people for Oakland in particular where it seems user error is not an issue and they've received no communication despite successful submission. It's an outlier and I'm pretty convinced something is up there. 

But like 85-90% of cases I've seen, yeah, user error.

BennyLaRue

In case anyone didn't see this. Please chime in if I missed something.
https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/283364/new-lottery-process-key-learnings

JimmyV

We know Ticketmaster screwed up the St Louis emails. They could have screwed almost anything else up as well.

Poncier

JimmyV said:

We know Ticketmaster screwed up the St Louis emails. They could have screwed almost anything else up as well.

Ticketmaster...screw something up...you don't say.

cutz

Kevinman said:

JimmyV said:

They gave us best available - an opportunity to not limit ourselves to either GA or reserved - and people still chose to limit themselves.

Not sure that’s how it works.  Possible, but never saw that explained that way officially.

Yes, BA was never explained. Unless i missed it? I know i didn't see that BA option when making my picks. I only find out about when the Draw started. I  knew what i wanted to try for and i have no regrets. I'd think we all would like an explanation of BA?

JimmyV

Poncier said:

JimmyV said:

We know Ticketmaster screwed up the St Louis emails. They could have screwed almost anything else up as well.

Ticketmaster...screw something up...you don't say.

Past performance doesn't always predict future results...but current performance always indicates current results.

Lerxst1992

NewfieintheUSA said:

Lerxst1992 said:

NewfieintheUSA said:

ecdanc said:

Kevinman said:

ecdanc said:

Lerxst1992 said:

“ GA (General Admission) and Reserved (Seated) Ticket Options:
There is a 2 ticket limit per show. Eligible members may submit a Ticket Request for both GA and Reserved tickets to any given show, but can only possibly be confirmed for one or the other. It is not possible to be confirmed for both GA and Reserved tickets for the same show. “

Think for a second about the complexity of the two hat theory. Let’s say there are 2,000 GA winners and 1500 of them were BA applicants.

theyd have to go thru the entire data base and scrub out those 1500 winners before doing the second hat draw. Think about how much time and work that adds to the process and how much that adds to the risk of error, by violating this basic rule

“ It is not possible to be confirmed for both GA and Reserved tickets for the same show. “

”NOT POSSIBLE.” That is the absolute evidence. 




they did the Balt draw in under three hours and there’s no way they scrubbed the data base and did a second hat draw, all within the time period we know the draw began and ended.

I don't really want to get into an argument (anymore than I already am), but no....that doesn't say what you're claiming it says. 

As for the rest, I'm no programmer, but I can't imagine it would be that hard to create a database that does what you describe. That's only conjecture, though. 

I do write programs....and this one would be fairly easy.  It is not done manually(someone actually removing names from a database after selected).  People saying it’s over complicated to have multiple “hats” might not know how simple it really is to program this to run through 2-6 rounds of multiple hats.  Probably hit start, and it goes through picking and eliminating and is done in less than 1 minute.

Interesting. Thank you, Kevin. Do we have any mathematicians or statisticians here? I’m curious if/how odds would be affected for GA, reserved, and BA with one-hat vs. two-hats. 

I was a Math major in college. It wouldn't make any difference odds wise either way. Look at it this way, if they drew in one big pool, anyone who has BA who gets picked while GA is available gets GA, same as if they drew GA first then reserved. The only difference is they start giving people who picked Reserved seats earlier. 

I think they are saying the BA picks are getting the equivalent of double the picks... that there are separate draws for GA and RES and BA is in both. Although there is no evidence of that, and the rules state it is impossible to be picked twice for one show. To do that IMO they would have to remove every GA winner precisely, and be certain not to remove non winners from a hypothetical second RES draw 

so they got a master coder to perfectly scrub the data after each category is picked, so they can tell us it is impossible to be picked twice

It's not that hard, when someone is picked, there is a field in the DB where you put their winning option, if that field is populated, they are no longer in the eligible pool. I work in IT, this is pretty common

I was commenting on the likelihood  of a separate draw for GA and separate for RES each round because some were saying the process gave BA the highest odds with a second chance to win.

Maybe it is easy to clean the data tor each priority, but it does  add an extra unnecessary step to have that second draw per priority where something could go wrong. 

Such as someone with only one pick losing to another's 2nd or 3rd pick. IMO user error seems a remote likelihood when picking only one show. 

bootlegger10

I think I've spent more time on these tickets than I did back in the F5 days.  Need to get off this board for a while and get some work done. 

PB11041

JimmyV said:

We know Ticketmaster screwed up the St Louis emails. They could have screwed almost anything else up as well.

yes but they actually followed up on this error pretty quickly and clearly, so I doubt the other random issues are anything beyond mostly USER error.  

JimmyV

PB11041 said:

JimmyV said:

We know Ticketmaster screwed up the St Louis emails. They could have screwed almost anything else up as well.

yes but they actually followed up on this error pretty quickly and clearly, so I doubt the other random issues are anything beyond mostly USER error.  

That's a lot of user error.

Abe Froman

I would be interested to see after Sunday night (I realize some have not received an email about certain shows) how many actually cases there are of people who won a show and then got rejected for 2nd choice when others got that rejected show as 3rd or 4th priority. It seems like very few right now. Most claiming this still have not actually received a rejection email. Seems most messed up their choices or tried to change choices and resubmitted incorrectly. 

Those complaining they lost just because they’ve “lived in that city for x amount of years” or “I’ve been a member for x amount of years...I deserve tickets!”  Well...I don’t even know what to say. Read the rules and enter with common sense. We all had the same system. 

Last thing, I do feel bad for those that got rejected. Just not the ones coming on here blasting everyone and everything with self entitlement 

mcgruff10

OceansJenny said:

benjs said:

This isn't complicated, guys.

Here's how I suspect they did it based on it being straightforward and aligning with everything they've shared about the process.

1. Filter on just the applicants for the show being drawn, in first priority
2. Pick a name. 
3. Check their preference
4a. If they requested GA, check if there are GA available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4b. If they requested Best Available, check if there are GA available. If not, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
4c. If they requested Reserved, check if there are Reserved available. Deplete the inventory if necessary, and notify on win/loss.
5. Once all entries have been processed to either win/loss within the priority, repeat the exercise with the next priority
6. Once all entries for the show have been processed to either win/loss, move on to the next one (hence why the email alerts came one show at a time)

Technically, once they knew a show was fully allocated, they could've also stopped lottery-ing for that show and send loss notices to everyone after too. 

This is the winner. No more speculation. The end.

@benjs is god like.  

PB11041

JimmyV said:

PB11041 said:

JimmyV said:

We know Ticketmaster screwed up the St Louis emails. They could have screwed almost anything else up as well.

yes but they actually followed up on this error pretty quickly and clearly, so I doubt the other random issues are anything beyond mostly USER error.  

That's a lot of user error.

like I said I keep seeing everything from "how could I lose 4 shows that had 99% odds" someone asks for a screenshot and the person put in for 4 GA shows on 1.13 when the odds had not even been figured at all.  Or they wanted to make a GA show priority 1 and then resubmitted but lopped off all the other shows they put in for because they did not read carefully. 

Jason7192

Abe Froman said:

I would be interested to see after Sunday night (I realize some have not received an email about certain shows) how many actually cases there are of people who won a show and then got rejected for 2nd choice when others got that rejected show as 3rd or 4th priority. It seems like very few right now. Most claiming this still have not actually received a rejection email. Seems most messed up their choices or tried to change choices and resubmitted incorrectly. 

Those complaining they lost just because they’ve “lived in that city for x amount of years” or “I’ve been a member for x amount of years...I deserve tickets!”  Well...I don’t even know what to say. Read the rules and enter with common sense. We all had the same system. 

Last thing, I do feel bad for those that got rejected. Just not the ones coming on here blasting everyone and everything with self entitlement 

Do we know if anyone won BA or reserved tix for STL at 3rd priority or worse?

JP218404

I find all of this amazing. Regardless of who is running the 10c tickets it has always be a crap shoot if we got em or not. Personal I didn’t get shit this year and this Is the second run at the garden I haven’t gotten. And ya know what. Haven’t missed a show and won’t this time. Ya want in you’ll get in. Plenty of great people on this board looking out for each out to make sure none of us over pay. 

The fact that 10C got more tickets per show is great for all of us regardless if you got them or not.  

Be happy they even do this. See ya at the shows. 

Abe Froman

Jason7192 said:

Abe Froman said:

I would be interested to see after Sunday night (I realize some have not received an email about certain shows) how many actually cases there are of people who won a show and then got rejected for 2nd choice when others got that rejected show as 3rd or 4th priority. It seems like very few right now. Most claiming this still have not actually received a rejection email. Seems most messed up their choices or tried to change choices and resubmitted incorrectly. 

Those complaining they lost just because they’ve “lived in that city for x amount of years” or “I’ve been a member for x amount of years...I deserve tickets!”  Well...I don’t even know what to say. Read the rules and enter with common sense. We all had the same system. 

Last thing, I do feel bad for those that got rejected. Just not the ones coming on here blasting everyone and everything with self entitlement 

Do we know if anyone won BA or reserved tix for STL at 3rd priority or worse?

I’m not sure. What I do know is I can verify my close circle of people that followed instructions properly and used logic in choices all won their shows. This is about 6-7 people. Most of us went for Nashville and STL. All chose BA or Res. All won both choices. 

Kevinman

JP218404 said:

I find all of this amazing. Regardless of who is running the 10c tickets it has always be a crap shoot if we got em or not. Personal I didn’t get shit this year and this Is the second run at the garden I haven’t gotten. And ya know what. Haven’t missed a show and won’t this time. Ya want in you’ll get in. Plenty of great people on this board looking out for each out to make sure none of us over pay. 

The fact that 10C got more tickets per show is great for all of us regardless if you got them or not.  

Be happy they even do this. See ya at the shows. 

Great attitude!  Sorry you didn’t get lottery tix.