Fan-To-Fan Face Value Ticket Exchange

gkitt80

ajflicker said:

JBob87 said:

ritg19 said:

It seems to me that once everyone receives their tickets, 10C, Verified Fan or General, there will be no more distinction between a "fan club" ticket and others.  All bets are off after that.  No one can transfer a ticket in name only (ex CO and NY).  The only option is to put it up for an anonymous face value sale on the Fan to Fan exchange which will include ALL tickets (10C, Verified or General).  I have to think the amount of tickets available on Fan to Fan will always be pretty small for shows.  How many people are buying a ticket to just sell it for face?  Probably those that got 10C tickets and weren't sure they were able to go, but did so just in case.  And very likely those will be snatched up really quickly for face since the seats are better than any non member could have gotten.       

Agree fully with your view. Secondary market is going to be weird. Expect most will fly off of the fan to fan exchange especially for sold out shows. I assume it is going to be a random crapshoot. I’m not seeing any way to actually scalp a ticket to this? Stubhub might not exist for these shows. Unless I am missing something. Which is both great in the sense that more people get in for face but means high 10c #s like me basically have no ability to upgrade beyond constantly refreshing the exchange and praying. 

Ya I was hoping to grab better seats off the fan to fan if my 10C ones are floor. Last time because we got a physical ticket I was able to trade before the show.

If you get GA and I get seats, I am happy to trade you - although this assumes we are both going to Baltimore (perhaps a bad assumption)

halshakarchi

RS65573 said:

halshakarchi said:

ecdanc said:

halshakarchi said:

BennyLaRue said:

halshakarchi said:

BennyLaRue said:

My one big question is: how will TM prevent bots from seeing the F2F ticket postings first?

I'm not going to theorize conspiratorially, it's just on my mind.

The tickets are not transferrable. The barcode changes constantly. There is no way the scalpers can resell the tickets (unless they’re in NY or CO).

Essentially this system guarantees the ticket never make a profit beyond its face value.

I'm a big fan of the attempt they're making but you really can't use the words "no way" or "guarantee". We can already see knuckleheads trying to work the system with the TM account sharing.

What if the system doesn’t allow you to set a price in the exchange? There’s no field to type in a figure? It’s just you offering up a ticket, and someone wants it and buys it for a set price.

I believe Benny is suggesting they'd avoid the F2F exchange entirely and work some other type of shenanigans. 

I can’t fathom any way they could do that with constantly changing barcodes and the system not letting you transfer tickets.

Like they are on ebay, sell the TM login.

From the public sale? Because Ticketmaster accounts newly registered would have been denied for the verified fan resale. Ticketmaster look at account age and activity to verify if they’re legit accounts, instead of ones newly created just to get in on the PJ tour.

I know, I sound very idealistic.

ecdanc

halshakarchi said:

RS65573 said:

halshakarchi said:

ecdanc said:

halshakarchi said:

BennyLaRue said:

halshakarchi said:

BennyLaRue said:

My one big question is: how will TM prevent bots from seeing the F2F ticket postings first?

I'm not going to theorize conspiratorially, it's just on my mind.

The tickets are not transferrable. The barcode changes constantly. There is no way the scalpers can resell the tickets (unless they’re in NY or CO).

Essentially this system guarantees the ticket never make a profit beyond its face value.

I'm a big fan of the attempt they're making but you really can't use the words "no way" or "guarantee". We can already see knuckleheads trying to work the system with the TM account sharing.

What if the system doesn’t allow you to set a price in the exchange? There’s no field to type in a figure? It’s just you offering up a ticket, and someone wants it and buys it for a set price.

I believe Benny is suggesting they'd avoid the F2F exchange entirely and work some other type of shenanigans. 

I can’t fathom any way they could do that with constantly changing barcodes and the system not letting you transfer tickets.

Like they are on ebay, sell the TM login.

From the public sale? Because Ticketmaster accounts newly registered would have been denied for the verified fan resale. Ticketmaster look at account age and activity to verify if they’re legit accounts, instead of ones newly created just to get in on the PJ tour.

I know, I sound very idealistic.

I had to create a brand new TM account for the 10c lottery, and I received a VF invite. 

JimmyV

ecdanc said:

halshakarchi said:

RS65573 said:

halshakarchi said:

ecdanc said:

halshakarchi said:

BennyLaRue said:

halshakarchi said:

BennyLaRue said:

My one big question is: how will TM prevent bots from seeing the F2F ticket postings first?

I'm not going to theorize conspiratorially, it's just on my mind.

The tickets are not transferrable. The barcode changes constantly. There is no way the scalpers can resell the tickets (unless they’re in NY or CO).

Essentially this system guarantees the ticket never make a profit beyond its face value.

I'm a big fan of the attempt they're making but you really can't use the words "no way" or "guarantee". We can already see knuckleheads trying to work the system with the TM account sharing.

What if the system doesn’t allow you to set a price in the exchange? There’s no field to type in a figure? It’s just you offering up a ticket, and someone wants it and buys it for a set price.

I believe Benny is suggesting they'd avoid the F2F exchange entirely and work some other type of shenanigans. 

I can’t fathom any way they could do that with constantly changing barcodes and the system not letting you transfer tickets.

Like they are on ebay, sell the TM login.

From the public sale? Because Ticketmaster accounts newly registered would have been denied for the verified fan resale. Ticketmaster look at account age and activity to verify if they’re legit accounts, instead of ones newly created just to get in on the PJ tour.

I know, I sound very idealistic.

I had to create a brand new TM account for the 10c lottery, and I received a VF invite. 

But you were on whatever list of active members 10C gave TM for use in the lottery. 

ecdanc

JimmyV said:

ecdanc said:

halshakarchi said:

RS65573 said:

halshakarchi said:

ecdanc said:

halshakarchi said:

BennyLaRue said:

halshakarchi said:

BennyLaRue said:

My one big question is: how will TM prevent bots from seeing the F2F ticket postings first?

I'm not going to theorize conspiratorially, it's just on my mind.

The tickets are not transferrable. The barcode changes constantly. There is no way the scalpers can resell the tickets (unless they’re in NY or CO).

Essentially this system guarantees the ticket never make a profit beyond its face value.

I'm a big fan of the attempt they're making but you really can't use the words "no way" or "guarantee". We can already see knuckleheads trying to work the system with the TM account sharing.

What if the system doesn’t allow you to set a price in the exchange? There’s no field to type in a figure? It’s just you offering up a ticket, and someone wants it and buys it for a set price.

I believe Benny is suggesting they'd avoid the F2F exchange entirely and work some other type of shenanigans. 

I can’t fathom any way they could do that with constantly changing barcodes and the system not letting you transfer tickets.

Like they are on ebay, sell the TM login.

From the public sale? Because Ticketmaster accounts newly registered would have been denied for the verified fan resale. Ticketmaster look at account age and activity to verify if they’re legit accounts, instead of ones newly created just to get in on the PJ tour.

I know, I sound very idealistic.

I had to create a brand new TM account for the 10c lottery, and I received a VF invite. 

But you were on whatever list of active members 10C gave TM for use in the lottery. 

That's true. I registered for the VF successfully and, as you rightly pointed out elsewhere (I think it was you, amongst others), those are completely separate. But, you're right--could be because of some overlap between the two databases. 

halshakarchi

ecdanc said:

halshakarchi said:

RS65573 said:

halshakarchi said:

ecdanc said:

halshakarchi said:

BennyLaRue said:

halshakarchi said:

BennyLaRue said:

My one big question is: how will TM prevent bots from seeing the F2F ticket postings first?

I'm not going to theorize conspiratorially, it's just on my mind.

The tickets are not transferrable. The barcode changes constantly. There is no way the scalpers can resell the tickets (unless they’re in NY or CO).

Essentially this system guarantees the ticket never make a profit beyond its face value.

I'm a big fan of the attempt they're making but you really can't use the words "no way" or "guarantee". We can already see knuckleheads trying to work the system with the TM account sharing.

What if the system doesn’t allow you to set a price in the exchange? There’s no field to type in a figure? It’s just you offering up a ticket, and someone wants it and buys it for a set price.

I believe Benny is suggesting they'd avoid the F2F exchange entirely and work some other type of shenanigans. 

I can’t fathom any way they could do that with constantly changing barcodes and the system not letting you transfer tickets.

Like they are on ebay, sell the TM login.

From the public sale? Because Ticketmaster accounts newly registered would have been denied for the verified fan resale. Ticketmaster look at account age and activity to verify if they’re legit accounts, instead of ones newly created just to get in on the PJ tour.

I know, I sound very idealistic.

I had to create a brand new TM account for the 10c lottery, and I received a VF invite. 

The 10c membership probably helped you get the VF access.

halshakarchi

I also wonder how much GA was available post 10c lottery

JimmyV

halshakarchi said:

I also wonder how much GA was available post 10c lottery

Weren't the odds for GA less than 99% in all cities? There shouldn't have been any leftover. 

mpedone

ecdanc said:

JimmyV said:

ecdanc said:

halshakarchi said:

RS65573 said:

halshakarchi said:

ecdanc said:

halshakarchi said:

BennyLaRue said:

halshakarchi said:

BennyLaRue said:

My one big question is: how will TM prevent bots from seeing the F2F ticket postings first?

I'm not going to theorize conspiratorially, it's just on my mind.

The tickets are not transferrable. The barcode changes constantly. There is no way the scalpers can resell the tickets (unless they’re in NY or CO).

Essentially this system guarantees the ticket never make a profit beyond its face value.

I'm a big fan of the attempt they're making but you really can't use the words "no way" or "guarantee". We can already see knuckleheads trying to work the system with the TM account sharing.

What if the system doesn’t allow you to set a price in the exchange? There’s no field to type in a figure? It’s just you offering up a ticket, and someone wants it and buys it for a set price.

I believe Benny is suggesting they'd avoid the F2F exchange entirely and work some other type of shenanigans. 

I can’t fathom any way they could do that with constantly changing barcodes and the system not letting you transfer tickets.

Like they are on ebay, sell the TM login.

From the public sale? Because Ticketmaster accounts newly registered would have been denied for the verified fan resale. Ticketmaster look at account age and activity to verify if they’re legit accounts, instead of ones newly created just to get in on the PJ tour.

I know, I sound very idealistic.

I had to create a brand new TM account for the 10c lottery, and I received a VF invite. 

But you were on whatever list of active members 10C gave TM for use in the lottery. 

That's true. I registered for the VF successfully and, as you rightly pointed out elsewhere (I think it was you, amongst others), those are completely separate. But, you're right--could be because of some overlap between the two databases. 

So, if those people selling tickets on eBay right now are 10C members, TicketMaster and the 10C could probably figure out who they are, right?

BennyLaRue

mpedone said:

So, if those people selling tickets on eBay right now are 10C members, TicketMaster and the 10C could probably figure out who they are, right?

Yeah, they will need to be in a lot of places though.

ajflicker

gkitt80 said:

ajflicker said:

JBob87 said:

ritg19 said:

It seems to me that once everyone receives their tickets, 10C, Verified Fan or General, there will be no more distinction between a "fan club" ticket and others.  All bets are off after that.  No one can transfer a ticket in name only (ex CO and NY).  The only option is to put it up for an anonymous face value sale on the Fan to Fan exchange which will include ALL tickets (10C, Verified or General).  I have to think the amount of tickets available on Fan to Fan will always be pretty small for shows.  How many people are buying a ticket to just sell it for face?  Probably those that got 10C tickets and weren't sure they were able to go, but did so just in case.  And very likely those will be snatched up really quickly for face since the seats are better than any non member could have gotten.       

Agree fully with your view. Secondary market is going to be weird. Expect most will fly off of the fan to fan exchange especially for sold out shows. I assume it is going to be a random crapshoot. I’m not seeing any way to actually scalp a ticket to this? Stubhub might not exist for these shows. Unless I am missing something. Which is both great in the sense that more people get in for face but means high 10c #s like me basically have no ability to upgrade beyond constantly refreshing the exchange and praying. 

Ya I was hoping to grab better seats off the fan to fan if my 10C ones are floor. Last time because we got a physical ticket I was able to trade before the show.

If you get GA and I get seats, I am happy to trade you - although this assumes we are both going to Baltimore (perhaps a bad assumption)

I am going to Hamilton.

benjs

Gern Blansten said:

Yeah it does seem surprising that TM doesn't want some sort of fee.  I guess I see it working like Stub Hub....you post the tix for sale and then when someone buys them (at face) you get paid.  Or maybe they will add it as a credit to future ticket purchases like the $26 I still have that I always forget to use from that class action lawsuit all those years ago.

I would put the odds that "TM doesn't want some sort of fee" at close to zero if I were a betting man. I can't imagine how much back-and-forth negotiating must've taken place over this.

gotthebottle

mpedone said:

ecdanc said:

JimmyV said:

ecdanc said:

halshakarchi said:

RS65573 said:

halshakarchi said:

ecdanc said:

halshakarchi said:

BennyLaRue said:

halshakarchi said:

BennyLaRue said:

My one big question is: how will TM prevent bots from seeing the F2F ticket postings first?

I'm not going to theorize conspiratorially, it's just on my mind.

The tickets are not transferrable. The barcode changes constantly. There is no way the scalpers can resell the tickets (unless they’re in NY or CO).

Essentially this system guarantees the ticket never make a profit beyond its face value.

I'm a big fan of the attempt they're making but you really can't use the words "no way" or "guarantee". We can already see knuckleheads trying to work the system with the TM account sharing.

What if the system doesn’t allow you to set a price in the exchange? There’s no field to type in a figure? It’s just you offering up a ticket, and someone wants it and buys it for a set price.

I believe Benny is suggesting they'd avoid the F2F exchange entirely and work some other type of shenanigans. 

I can’t fathom any way they could do that with constantly changing barcodes and the system not letting you transfer tickets.

Like they are on ebay, sell the TM login.

From the public sale? Because Ticketmaster accounts newly registered would have been denied for the verified fan resale. Ticketmaster look at account age and activity to verify if they’re legit accounts, instead of ones newly created just to get in on the PJ tour.

I know, I sound very idealistic.

I had to create a brand new TM account for the 10c lottery, and I received a VF invite. 

But you were on whatever list of active members 10C gave TM for use in the lottery. 

That's true. I registered for the VF successfully and, as you rightly pointed out elsewhere (I think it was you, amongst others), those are completely separate. But, you're right--could be because of some overlap between the two databases. 

So, if those people selling tickets on eBay right now are 10C members, TicketMaster and the 10C could probably figure out who they are, right?

There's time to trace and cancel if it's a 10C lottery winner selling a GA. I'll bet they are speculative though

pistol pete

Theoretically, couldn't scalpers try to beat the non-transferable (except F-2-F) rules by going to will call the day of the show, claiming their phone is busted (or some other excuse), get a paper ticket and then scalp that the day of the show?  I know that's a lot more work/man-hours than simply selling it on a secondary site, but just curious if that's how they'll try to get around it (well that and selling TM log-ins).

halshakarchi

pistol pete said:

Theoretically, couldn't scalpers try to beat the non-transferable (except F-2-F) rules by going to will call the day of the show, claiming their phone is busted (or some other excuse), get a paper ticket and then scalp that the day of the show?  I know that's a lot more work/man-hours than simply selling it on a secondary site, but just curious if that's how they'll try to get around it (well that and selling TM log-ins).

What if people who try to go in with paper tickets have to also show their ID and the names need to match.

tdawe

pistol pete said:

Theoretically, couldn't scalpers try to beat the non-transferable (except F-2-F) rules by going to will call the day of the show, claiming their phone is busted (or some other excuse), get a paper ticket and then scalp that the day of the show?  I know that's a lot more work/man-hours than simply selling it on a secondary site, but just curious if that's how they'll try to get around it (well that and selling TM log-ins).

The problem with this is the same as the problem with selling TM logins - it might technically work, but the problem is that there will be a lack of trust in the process on the buyer’s side. If I’m going to pay you four figures for a ticket, I want the ticket delivered to me as soon as the payment clears. Buying tickets from strangers, especially over the internet, is a low-trust environment. This is one part of what StubHub offers to both buyers and sellers (the other part is market price information). Shady eBay or Craigslist postings that say “I’ll send you a TM login” or “meet me on this corner before the show” will be treated more skeptically by the buyers, with an attendant decrease in the premiums the scalpers will be able to fetch. 

euchrid

ajflicker said:

gkitt80 said:

ajflicker said:

JBob87 said:

ritg19 said:

It seems to me that once everyone receives their tickets, 10C, Verified Fan or General, there will be no more distinction between a "fan club" ticket and others.  All bets are off after that.  No one can transfer a ticket in name only (ex CO and NY).  The only option is to put it up for an anonymous face value sale on the Fan to Fan exchange which will include ALL tickets (10C, Verified or General).  I have to think the amount of tickets available on Fan to Fan will always be pretty small for shows.  How many people are buying a ticket to just sell it for face?  Probably those that got 10C tickets and weren't sure they were able to go, but did so just in case.  And very likely those will be snatched up really quickly for face since the seats are better than any non member could have gotten.       

Agree fully with your view. Secondary market is going to be weird. Expect most will fly off of the fan to fan exchange especially for sold out shows. I assume it is going to be a random crapshoot. I’m not seeing any way to actually scalp a ticket to this? Stubhub might not exist for these shows. Unless I am missing something. Which is both great in the sense that more people get in for face but means high 10c #s like me basically have no ability to upgrade beyond constantly refreshing the exchange and praying. 

Ya I was hoping to grab better seats off the fan to fan if my 10C ones are floor. Last time because we got a physical ticket I was able to trade before the show.

If you get GA and I get seats, I am happy to trade you - although this assumes we are both going to Baltimore (perhaps a bad assumption)

I am going to Hamilton.

When you say "floor" did you mean reserved seats on the floor or GA?

yanknuck

If people think the sales process has been bad, wait until this ticket exchange gets fired up.

MD190661

tdawe said:

pistol pete said:

Theoretically, couldn't scalpers try to beat the non-transferable (except F-2-F) rules by going to will call the day of the show, claiming their phone is busted (or some other excuse), get a paper ticket and then scalp that the day of the show?  I know that's a lot more work/man-hours than simply selling it on a secondary site, but just curious if that's how they'll try to get around it (well that and selling TM log-ins).

The problem with this is the same as the problem with selling TM logins - it might technically work, but the problem is that there will be a lack of trust in the process on the buyer’s side. If I’m going to pay you four figures for a ticket, I want the ticket delivered to me as soon as the payment clears. Buying tickets from strangers, especially over the internet, is a low-trust environment. This is one part of what StubHub offers to both buyers and sellers (the other part is market price information). Shady eBay or Craigslist postings that say “I’ll send you a TM login” or “meet me on this corner before the show” will be treated more skeptically by the buyers, with an attendant decrease in the premiums the scalpers will be able to fetch. 

Exactly. Of course people will game the system and some will make a quick buck. But the systematic scalping that takes place for most big shows has been curbed for most of this tour. 99% or more of the tickets purchased, except for NY or CO, went to fans. Full time brokers probably didn't touch this tour because of what PJ put in place. Very please with how things have worked out. 

Ernie Vedder

ISO: (1) San Diego and Phoenix. If anyone has a spare for each show, I would greatly appreciate it. Any seat (GA/Reserve) doesn’t matter.  I Can meet you at the venue the day of show for payment. Or I can Paypal. Let me know. Thanks.