The Democratic Presidential Debates

The Juggler

Wake me up when there's less than a hundred people participating.

You're not going to learn anything about these candidates through 30 second soundbites.

mcgruff10

The Juggler said:

Wake me up when there's less than a hundred people participating.

You're not going to learn anything about these candidates through 30 second soundbites.

Agreed.  I will really start paying attention when the field is down to two or three.

JimmyV

benjs said:

JimmyV said:

Warren beat a popular incumbent in Scott Brown to reach the Senate. Yes, a Democrat in Massachusetts should win that race, but it's incorrect to think she faced no challenge. 

I personally think she would kick Trump's ass. Both in the debates and in November. Anyone waffling between Trump and Warren, after all this, is deep down a likely Trump voter. Dems don't win by trying to court them. 

I'm not 100% in agreement about your second paragraph. I think pull factors such as the optics on single-payer, to Lerxst's point, are absolutely relevant in the eyes and minds of voters. I also personally can't stand the "if you're not sure at this point, you're a Trump supporter", and think it's incredibly counter-productive. The message is clearly stated by Democrats as a stroke against integrity/intelligence, and that's not conducive to winning a person over. The tactics used by most to influencing people to come around aren't shown to be effective, but we seem to try the same thing over and over again while expecting different results. 

I don't know whether it's a stroke against integrity/intelligence or not, and I'm not a Democrat. But after all that we have seen Trump do, anyone who is undecided between Trump and a Democrat is ok with his conduct. It's not about a policy issue or a tax or a personal concern. It is about being ok with this loathsome human being occupying the White House and leading this nation.

We can argue that voters in 2016 didn't know. We can't argue that today. Sliding to the right in order to woo these people is a mistake. Any Democrat who is able to win potential Trump voters over is unlikely to be able to hold the left together. I would love to be wrong, and I would love a Democratic candidate to prove me wrong, but I don't believe it is a viable strategy to win. Not in 2020.

Jason P

The GOP is practically ignoring Warren.  I take that as a sign that she either poses no threat to win the nomination or they are hoping she can take the lead and somehow win.

I have no idea what is going on.  The script is changing daily.  In any other non-trump election cycle there is no way the democrats would go after the Ukraine issue if the prime candidate was in anyway connected to something fishy, yet here. we. are. 

JimmyV

The Bidens are irrelevant to Donald Trump's crimes.

mickeyrat

@mrussel1

Hi!

I like everyone except Beto tonight.
Buddha and Klobuchar are my faves.
Warren was under attack tonight and did fine. I love Biden, but dudes old.
 I liked having 12 candidates up there, it didn’t seem overcrowded as much as you might think.
I liked Castro’s line, “Locking up kids at the boarder, setting Isis free” , or something to that effect.

Hi!

I do think Warren is still a little dodgy on answering the questions on costs and taxes  as it relates to MFA. I think she put herself in a box when she decided to support Bernie’s plan. Could be a problem, IDK

mrussel1

mickeyrat said:

@mrussel1

Thanks

mrussel1

Hi! said:

I do think Warren is still a little dodgy on answering the questions on costs and taxes  as it relates to MFA. I think she put herself in a box when she decided to support Bernie’s plan. Could be a problem, IDK

Because she knows that it's s political liability.  She is very dodgy. 

I can't believe how high strung  Bernie continues top be.  Seriously,  he needs to dial it back.  He should still be recovering. 

F Me In The Brain

Warren is not dodgy, she is dishonest.
Pete and Corey are who I like most from this group....but media doesn't like them.

mrussel1

F Me In The Brain said:

Warren is not dodgy, she is dishonest.
Pete and Corey are who I like most from this group....but media doesn't like them.

Joe,  Amy,  Pete... in order of age.   

Hi!

mrussel1 said:

Hi! said:

I do think Warren is still a little dodgy on answering the questions on costs and taxes  as it relates to MFA. I think she put herself in a box when she decided to support Bernie’s plan. Could be a problem, IDK

Because she knows that it's s political liability.  She is very dodgy. 

I can't believe how high strung  Bernie continues top be.  Seriously,  he needs to dial it back.  He should still be recovering. 

Bernie’s a good dude. He don’t dodge, he’s honest about raising taxes at least. But yeah, to be debating a couple weeks after a heart attack, I don’t think he’s going anywhere.

Hi!

My favorite part of the debate were the Ron Reagan commercials during the breaks for the Freedom From Religion Foundation. Fighting to keep church and state separate like our founders intended. Ron Reagan 2020, lol.

dignin

F Me In The Brain said:

Warren is not dodgy, she is dishonest.
Pete and Corey are who I like most from this group....but media doesn't like them.

You have any evidence that the media has it out for your preferred candidates?

I'm sure it has nothing to do with Warren just out campaigning them. No it can't be that, it has to be something else.

benjs

Hi! said:

I do think Warren is still a little dodgy on answering the questions on costs and taxes  as it relates to MFA. I think she put herself in a box when she decided to support Bernie’s plan. Could be a problem, IDK

I think she's done a bad job of articulating her approach. If I'm understanding her position correctly, she's trying to say when you take the lump sum of your taxes plus your health care costs, you will end up spending less money moving forward with her plan. That said, a plan that she can't articulate isn't really one that's going to help.

benjs

Hi! said:

My favorite part of the debate were the Ron Reagan commercials during the breaks for the Freedom From Religion Foundation. Fighting to keep church and state separate like our founders intended. Ron Reagan 2020, lol.

My favourite was when he said something like "and I look forward to going to burn in hell". I missed the exact line but it cracked me up.

Hi!

benjs said:

Hi! said:

My favorite part of the debate were the Ron Reagan commercials during the breaks for the Freedom From Religion Foundation. Fighting to keep church and state separate like our founders intended. Ron Reagan 2020, lol.

My favourite was when he said something like "and I look forward to going to burn in hell". I missed the exact line but it cracked me up.

Lol, yeah that was great. He’s a good dude.

Hi!

benjs said:

Hi! said:

I do think Warren is still a little dodgy on answering the questions on costs and taxes  as it relates to MFA. I think she put herself in a box when she decided to support Bernie’s plan. Could be a problem, IDK

I think she's done a bad job of articulating her approach. If I'm understanding her position correctly, she's trying to say when you take the lump sum of your taxes plus your health care costs, you will end up spending less money moving forward with her plan. That said, a plan that she can't articulate isn't really one that's going to help.

I get that and understand her point, but she won’t say it’s going to raise taxes. Costs of other goods and services could increase with MFA, that could offset some of those out of pocket costs.

benjs

Hi! said:

mrussel1 said:

Hi! said:

I do think Warren is still a little dodgy on answering the questions on costs and taxes  as it relates to MFA. I think she put herself in a box when she decided to support Bernie’s plan. Could be a problem, IDK

Because she knows that it's s political liability.  She is very dodgy. 

I can't believe how high strung  Bernie continues top be.  Seriously,  he needs to dial it back.  He should still be recovering. 

Bernie’s a good dude. He don’t dodge, he’s honest about raising taxes at least. But yeah, to be debating a couple weeks after a heart attack, I don’t think he’s going anywhere.

To be honest, I thought he seemed way more youthful than he had in prior debates. He was jovial, his shouting wasn't raspy, etc.

Hi!

benjs said:

Hi! said:

mrussel1 said:

Hi! said:

I do think Warren is still a little dodgy on answering the questions on costs and taxes  as it relates to MFA. I think she put herself in a box when she decided to support Bernie’s plan. Could be a problem, IDK

Because she knows that it's s political liability.  She is very dodgy. 

I can't believe how high strung  Bernie continues top be.  Seriously,  he needs to dial it back.  He should still be recovering. 

Bernie’s a good dude. He don’t dodge, he’s honest about raising taxes at least. But yeah, to be debating a couple weeks after a heart attack, I don’t think he’s going anywhere.

To be honest, I thought he seemed way more youthful than he had in prior debates. He was jovial, his shouting wasn't raspy, etc.

He had a good night. Maybe he should have more heart attack’s, I kid. AOC endorsement coming.

The Juggler

From the bits I saw, it seems Amy and Pete had a good night. Liz is obviously avoiding the fact that she will raise taxes on everyone—not a good look. It’s Bernie’s plan and even he admits it. 

Be nice if Pete makes some headway in the polls after this. 

Ledbetterman10

Jason P said:

The GOP is practically ignoring Warren.  I take that as a sign that she either poses no threat to win the nomination or they are hoping she can take the lead and somehow win.

Completely agree. They want her to be the nominee. They probably see her as a second-rate Hillary who will be easier to tie to socialism than Hillary was, has less resources (both financial and personal connections) than Hillary, and isn’t married to a popular former president like Hillary. 

Hi!

Long time to go but I feel fine with Pete as the nominee. I think he would make Trump look like a fool in a one on one debate, and when he starts talking about Trumps moral character, it’s good stuff. I feel he is the “Obama” of this field, as in he has the “ it “ factor. 

F Me In The Brain

dignin said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Warren is not dodgy, she is dishonest.
Pete and Corey are who I like most from this group....but media doesn't like them.

You have any evidence that the media has it out for your preferred candidates?

I'm sure it has nothing to do with Warren just out campaigning them. No it can't be that, it has to be something else.

The media having it out for the 2 folks I named is not the same thing as my statement, supporting the idea that the media per-ordained the front runners before the first debate even happened. 

The media is running these debates.  Look at how long we had to wait until Pete and Cory even got the chance to speak.

If you want to see facts on the preferential treatment of the media last night, look at Warren's time vs the other candidates...

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/10/15/us/elections/debate-speaking-time.html

Would Biden benefit from a 37% increase in his allowed speaking time?

A case could be made.

I would certainly support that if Pete was allowed the same amount of time as Warren (it would be a 69% increase in his speaking time) that he would have been able to share more.

In Cory's case?  It would have been almost 100% more time.  Double the time to share his ideas and position as a potential option.

My point in making the comment I made was more of a crap on the general system in place and less on Warren.  I think she is doing a good job on her campaign.  I absolutely believe she is a smart candidate, who genuinely cares about people, and is one who would be a hundred times better than this stooge we have in office.

I also happen to believe she is being dishonest about her tax plan (unlike Bernie) and that her ideas are idealistic and are not practical (like Bernie) and that they will prove to not be electable during this cycle.  It is my opinion that standing up for your grandest beliefs is not the way to take Donnie Darko out of pocket, although it is admirable.

Just wish that Pete could have more time to finish his thoughts and that Booker could take part in an event knowing he had time to explain what his plan would be and he could ditch the nice guy approach he is using to try and separate himself somehow from the pack.  It is not going to work.

 

F Me In The Brain

Also, Steyer made sense with what he was saying, when he got to speak.  Don't know much about him, will have to read up.

Hi!

F Me In The Brain said:

Also, Steyer made sense with what he was saying, when he got to speak.  Don't know much about him, will have to read up.

Yeah, I like his business angle, being able to show Trump as a fraud, con man.

Hi!

I actually liked having 12 candidates up on stage. Lots of points of view to consider, makes it interesting. Let the voters decide. I would be fine with them keeping the debates at 12, -Beto, +Bennet, Bullock. I know 7 have qualified for the next debate.

cincybearcat

Didn't get a chance to watch much of this one.  And with how long the election cycle is...I'm kinda already over these debates with a large group on stage.  I have the ones I like, but I'm not the target for this group of debaters anyhow...so I guess I just have to sit back and see which candidate the far left decides it wants to try and run against trump and hope I can support them.

Hi!

cincybearcat said:

Didn't get a chance to watch much of this one.  And with how long the election cycle is...I'm kinda already over these debates with a large group on stage.  I have the ones I like, but I'm not the target for this group of debaters anyhow...so I guess I just have to sit back and see which candidate the far left decides it wants to try and run against trump and hope I can support them.

So you think the far left will decide this primary?