The Democratic Presidential Debates
Comments
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How many teams are there?mrussel1 said:
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.Spiritual_Chaos said:CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!0 -
Sure it does.. and it's a joke. McGruff said "da fuck" which is short for What the fuck? And that's what Graham said "What?" when "Dennis" explained their anarcho-commie bent.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Okey. So him in all fairness saying "da fuck" then doesn't really support your argument.mrussel1 said:
Everyone is a tool in the movie, even "Tim".Spiritual_Chaos said:
But Graham plays a tool in the film, does he not?mrussel1 said:
In fairness, not many history teachers study something that was in place for about a week in a few Spanish provinces.ecdanc said:
Don’t you teach history?mcgruff10 said:
Da fuck is anarcho communism? Is that like lord of the flies?ecdanc said:
See above: anarcho-communism.Ledbetterman10 said:
This is one of the starangest posts I've ever read on this board (and that's saying something). First off, as the 2016 election showed, it's not about majoritarian because Trump didn't get a majority of the votes. Secondly, what the hell type of system would you prefer if you think voting is a form of violence? Dictatorships? Monarchies?ecdanc said:
It's a hit at parties!Ledbetterman10 said:
I don't think that statement would go over well anywhere. How is voting a form of violence?ecdanc said:
Generally speaking, I do not vote. I consider voting a form of violence (that statement should go over well here). After much soul-searching, I did vote in the 2016 presidential election, however.OnWis97 said:
Not sure who is a leading US personality in that area. How far outside of that philosophy can you vote? Because I don't see one getting elected to, well, anything in the enforceable future.ecdanc said:
Majoritarian rule is a form of violence; ergo, voting is a form of violence.
Graham literally said "da fuck?" at this moment...0 -
Ah, ok. gotcha.mrussel1 said:
Sure it does.. and it's a joke. McGruff said "da fuck" which is short for What the fuck? And that's what Graham said "What?" when "Dennis" explained their anarcho-commie bent.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Okey. So him in all fairness saying "da fuck" then doesn't really support your argument.mrussel1 said:
Everyone is a tool in the movie, even "Tim".Spiritual_Chaos said:
But Graham plays a tool in the film, does he not?mrussel1 said:
In fairness, not many history teachers study something that was in place for about a week in a few Spanish provinces.ecdanc said:
Don’t you teach history?mcgruff10 said:
Da fuck is anarcho communism? Is that like lord of the flies?ecdanc said:
See above: anarcho-communism.Ledbetterman10 said:
This is one of the starangest posts I've ever read on this board (and that's saying something). First off, as the 2016 election showed, it's not about majoritarian because Trump didn't get a majority of the votes. Secondly, what the hell type of system would you prefer if you think voting is a form of violence? Dictatorships? Monarchies?ecdanc said:
It's a hit at parties!Ledbetterman10 said:
I don't think that statement would go over well anywhere. How is voting a form of violence?ecdanc said:
Generally speaking, I do not vote. I consider voting a form of violence (that statement should go over well here). After much soul-searching, I did vote in the 2016 presidential election, however.OnWis97 said:
Not sure who is a leading US personality in that area. How far outside of that philosophy can you vote? Because I don't see one getting elected to, well, anything in the enforceable future.ecdanc said:
Majoritarian rule is a form of violence; ergo, voting is a form of violence.
Graham literally said "da fuck?" at this moment..."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0
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The blatant homogeneous-phobiaSpiritual_Chaos said:0 -
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?mrussel1 said:
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.Spiritual_Chaos said:CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
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And therein lies the everlasting challenge of democracy, how do you have majority rule while protecting the rights of the minority?OnWis97 said:
I'm not convinced "violence" is the right word...but I understand it.Halifax2TheMax said:Oh please. There’s get shot and killed in school as a second grader violence that equals I got screwed on my taxes because Team Trump Treason got elected violence? Voting = violence, this country is really fucked.
That said, if everything works well, majority rule doesn't always hold form. We didn't end slavery on a majority popular vote (it would have failed, particularly if the individual states had their own choice. One high-profile example that the right thing can be done despite a likely majority being against it. Admittedly it puts a lot of trust into people who have conflicts of interest between themselves and the public good.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;
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Can you?Halifax2TheMax said:
And therein lies the everlasting challenge of democracy, how do you have majority rule while protecting the rights of the minority?OnWis97 said:
I'm not convinced "violence" is the right word...but I understand it.Halifax2TheMax said:Oh please. There’s get shot and killed in school as a second grader violence that equals I got screwed on my taxes because Team Trump Treason got elected violence? Voting = violence, this country is really fucked.
That said, if everything works well, majority rule doesn't always hold form. We didn't end slavery on a majority popular vote (it would have failed, particularly if the individual states had their own choice. One high-profile example that the right thing can be done despite a likely majority being against it. Admittedly it puts a lot of trust into people who have conflicts of interest between themselves and the public good.
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You don't remember the character assassination against Hillary by his supporters, at his rallies? It was bad. Here's an article from May '16. You can see the striking similarities to Trump's campaign, seeking to de-legitimize the opponent and the process.Ledbetterman10 said:
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?mrussel1 said:
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.Spiritual_Chaos said:CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
https://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-indiana-polls-attacks-2016-5
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I don't see how him attacking people cozying up to billionaires (this being Biden and Pete) is off-brand or surprising.Ledbetterman10 said:
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?mrussel1 said:
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.Spiritual_Chaos said:CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
He puts grassroots VS billionaires/lobbyists. Working from the bottom and fighting upwards and not the other way around.
But I bet he is a bit shook of Petes result and how he was everywhere in the media efter Iowa (from Stephen Colbert to The View to MSBNC with a glow of "winner"). Pete is also a threat in NH."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
And how about this quote from Trump...Ledbetterman10 said:
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?mrussel1 said:
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.Spiritual_Chaos said:CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.And for his part, Trump has begun incorporating Sanders into his stump speech, repeatedly asserting that he'll attempt to build on Sanders' characterizations of Clinton.
"Bernie Sanders has a message that's interesting," Trump told "Morning Joe" last month. "I'm going to be taking a lot of the things that Bernie said and using them."
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Where is the character assasination from Bernie in this article?mrussel1 said:
You don't remember the character assassination against Hillary by his supporters, at his rallies? It was bad. Here's an article from May '16. You can see the striking similarities to Trump's campaign, seeking to de-legitimize the opponent and the process.Ledbetterman10 said:
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?mrussel1 said:
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.Spiritual_Chaos said:CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
https://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-indiana-polls-attacks-2016-5
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Because this is a primary, not a general election.Spiritual_Chaos said:
I don't see how him attacking people cozying up to billionaires (this being Biden and Pete) is off-brand or surprising.Ledbetterman10 said:
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?mrussel1 said:
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.Spiritual_Chaos said:CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
He puts grassroots VS billionaires/lobbyists. Working from the bottom and fighting upwards and not the other way around.
But I bet he is a bit shook of Petes result and how he was everywhere in the media efter Iowa (from Stephen Colbert to The View to MSBNC with a glow of "winner"). Pete is also a threat in NH.0 -
So, then is Biden allowed to say that Mayor Pete can not be President because he's just been a small-town mayor. Or is Biden allowed to say that someone who will be branded a socialist should not be the nominee?mrussel1 said:
Because this is a primary, not a general election.Spiritual_Chaos said:
I don't see how him attacking people cozying up to billionaires (this being Biden and Pete) is off-brand or surprising.Ledbetterman10 said:
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?mrussel1 said:
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.Spiritual_Chaos said:CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
He puts grassroots VS billionaires/lobbyists. Working from the bottom and fighting upwards and not the other way around.
But I bet he is a bit shook of Petes result and how he was everywhere in the media efter Iowa (from Stephen Colbert to The View to MSBNC with a glow of "winner"). Pete is also a threat in NH."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Seriously? There's quotes all over the article like this one... and this is just one article. Sanders is not contrasting himself on the policy front with Clinton. This is what you do in the primary. You split some hairs, say you're better in the general, but hey...we're all on the same team. But not Sanders.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Where is the character assasination from Bernie in this article?mrussel1 said:
You don't remember the character assassination against Hillary by his supporters, at his rallies? It was bad. Here's an article from May '16. You can see the striking similarities to Trump's campaign, seeking to de-legitimize the opponent and the process.Ledbetterman10 said:
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?mrussel1 said:
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.Spiritual_Chaos said:CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
https://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-indiana-polls-attacks-2016-5
"Secretary Clinton has exploited the rules in ways that let her high-dollar donors like Alice Walton of Walmart fame and the actor George Clooney and his super-rich Hollywood friends skirt legal limits on campaign contributions," Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver said.
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Bernie's Rank-Choice Ballot:
- Bernie Sanders
- Donald Trump
- (Democrats follow in some order)
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Well if she did, then the criticism is fair(?)mrussel1 said:
Seriously? There's quotes all over the article like this one... and this is just one article. Sanders is not contrasting himself on the policy front with Clinton. This is what you do in the primary. You split some hairs, say you're better in the general, but hey...we're all on the same team. But not Sanders.Spiritual_Chaos said:
Where is the character assasination from Bernie in this article?mrussel1 said:
You don't remember the character assassination against Hillary by his supporters, at his rallies? It was bad. Here's an article from May '16. You can see the striking similarities to Trump's campaign, seeking to de-legitimize the opponent and the process.Ledbetterman10 said:
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?mrussel1 said:
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.Spiritual_Chaos said:CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
https://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-indiana-polls-attacks-2016-5
"Secretary Clinton has exploited the rules in ways that let her high-dollar donors like Alice Walton of Walmart fame and the actor George Clooney and his super-rich Hollywood friends skirt legal limits on campaign contributions," Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver said."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
You can/should say "I'm a better choice because I have the experience that X doesn't have. I'm prepared, blah blah.." That's not damaging the other candidates, that's elevating yourself. No problem. The socialist one is tricky, depending on how it's positioned. If Biden said "Socialists are communists, and we've seen that in 100 years of communism, that's a corrupt system", I would call that completely out of bounds and dirty. If he said, "I agree with many of Bernie's policies, to one degree or another, but I'm concerned about whether he could attract the independents necessary to win in a general election".. I'd say that's not great, but not terrible.Spiritual_Chaos said:
So, then is Biden allowed to say that Mayor Pete can not be President because he's just been a small-town mayor. Or is Biden allowed to say that someone who will be branded a socialist should not be the nominee?mrussel1 said:
Because this is a primary, not a general election.Spiritual_Chaos said:
I don't see how him attacking people cozying up to billionaires (this being Biden and Pete) is off-brand or surprising.Ledbetterman10 said:
He didn't seem like this in 2016. Or am I just remembering wrong?mrussel1 said:
This is the very thing we were discussing earlier. Bernie doesn't seek to win on the merits of his position, he seeks to denigrate and disparage his opponents' motives. This is why his supporters are Bernie or Bust, because Bernie himself damages the opponent who is basically on his team.Spiritual_Chaos said:CAMPAIGN 2020: BERNIE SANDERS rips PETE BUTTIGIEG ties to billionaires in fiery NEW HAMPSHIRE speech
THE HEAT IS ON!
Or maybe after having the DNC against him in 2016 (and by some accounts, against him now as well), he's just taken a "fuck it" attitude towards the other democrats. Sorta like Trump in 2016 against the GOP.
He puts grassroots VS billionaires/lobbyists. Working from the bottom and fighting upwards and not the other way around.
But I bet he is a bit shook of Petes result and how he was everywhere in the media efter Iowa (from Stephen Colbert to The View to MSBNC with a glow of "winner"). Pete is also a threat in NH.0 -
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0
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He didn't answer the question.0
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