A thought experiment: imagine the election was Trump v. Someone you personally think is worse than Trump (an almost unfathomable monster). Would you vote for Trump?
You're not gonna get someone to renounce their religion on the record
I just did.
I wasn't referring to everyone. There are plenty of levelheaded people on here, yourself included.
A thought experiment: imagine the election was Trump v. Someone you personally think is worse than Trump (an almost unfathomable monster). Would you vote for Trump?
It's a difficult question because as much as I'm against his policies, his moral turpitude is worse. If Trump was still a Democrat, with this exact level of dishonesty, divisiveness, etc., and he ran against Romney or Kasich, I would vote Republican in a second.
And if it were Trump v. Stalin?
If that’s the choice, then maybe it makes sense to just move.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
A thought experiment: imagine the election was Trump v. Someone you personally think is worse than Trump (an almost unfathomable monster). Would you vote for Trump?
It's a difficult question because as much as I'm against his policies, his moral turpitude is worse. If Trump was still a Democrat, with this exact level of dishonesty, divisiveness, etc., and he ran against Romney or Kasich, I would vote Republican in a second.
And if it were Trump v. Stalin?
If that’s the choice, then maybe it makes sense to just move.
Could you up and move out of the country anytime you want?
Ill retract a piece... the BLM protest is in the same ballpark as civil rights but certainly fractionally. Either way, the point of a protest should be, at the end of the day, effectuate change. And that change needs to convince the people that are ambivalent. There are more effective ways than blocking interstates, which effectively removes support.
A protest should ideally contribute to change, but it doesn’t have to come by convincing others of the rightness of your cause. Sometimes change needs to be forced. For instance, those people who still don’t fully believe that black or Hispanic or First Nations people have the same humanity as white people are never going to be convinced of it by reasoned argument or polite, convenient banner-waving. Support which evaporates by being made fifteen minutes late for work isn’t worth much anyway.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Ill retract a piece... the BLM protest is in the same ballpark as civil rights but certainly fractionally. Either way, the point of a protest should be, at the end of the day, effectuate change. And that change needs to convince the people that are ambivalent. There are more effective ways than blocking interstates, which effectively removes support.
A protest should ideally contribute to change, but it doesn’t have to come by convincing others of the rightness of your cause. Sometimes change needs to be forced. For instance, those people who still don’t fully believe that black or Hispanic or First Nations people have the same humanity as white people are never going to be convinced of it by reasoned argument or polite, convenient banner-waving. Support which evaporates by being made fifteen minutes late for work isn’t worth much anyway.
Ill retract a piece... the BLM protest is in the same ballpark as civil rights but certainly fractionally. Either way, the point of a protest should be, at the end of the day, effectuate change. And that change needs to convince the people that are ambivalent. There are more effective ways than blocking interstates, which effectively removes support.
A protest should ideally contribute to change, but it doesn’t have to come by convincing others of the rightness of your cause. Sometimes change needs to be forced. For instance, those people who still don’t fully believe that black or Hispanic or First Nations people have the same humanity as white people are never going to be convinced of it by reasoned argument or polite, convenient banner-waving. Support which evaporates by being made fifteen minutes late for work isn’t worth much anyway.
You're not trying to convince the people rooted on the other side. They can't be moved. It's the ambivalent that you target. The Civil Rights political movement wasn't targeting the Dixiecrats, they were targeting moderates.
Regarding work, what if a person was fired because they were 15, 30 an hour late? What if they were late picking up their children from daycare, which is actually what happened when some BLM protestors shut down 95 here in Richmond. You want them to care about your cause but you disregard what's critical in their life?
A thought experiment: imagine the election was Trump v. Someone you personally think is worse than Trump (an almost unfathomable monster). Would you vote for Trump?
You're not gonna get someone to renounce their religion on the record
I just did.
I wasn't referring to everyone. There are plenty of levelheaded people on here, yourself included.
Me?!?
No!!! For the love of god, man, I found some common ground and was riding it as far as we could go!
A thought experiment: imagine the election was Trump v. Someone you personally think is worse than Trump (an almost unfathomable monster). Would you vote for Trump?
You're not gonna get someone to renounce their religion on the record
I just did.
I wasn't referring to everyone. There are plenty of levelheaded people on here, yourself included.
Me?!?
No!!! For the love of god, man, I found some common ground and was riding it as far as we could go!
A thought experiment: imagine the election was Trump v. Someone you personally think is worse than Trump (an almost unfathomable monster). Would you vote for Trump?
It's a difficult question because as much as I'm against his policies, his moral turpitude is worse. If Trump was still a Democrat, with this exact level of dishonesty, divisiveness, etc., and he ran against Romney or Kasich, I would vote Republican in a second.
And if it were Trump v. Stalin?
That's kind of silly, but no I would not vote for the guy that purged his generals, set up the gulags and committed genocide against 7-10 million Ukrainians including my own extended family. Feels like an easy choice.
So you’d vote for Trump?
Well there could be a third party, I could be traveling for work or Mephistopheles might jump in at the last moment. You've migrated into silliness.
So you accept the logical and moral validity of not voting for Bloomberg, Buttigieg, etc.
No, because the comparisons you drew were stupid. But at the end of the day, I don't care if you vote or not nor have I spent a moment reflecting on your personal decisions to vote or not to vote for the D candidate. I could not care less.
(FYI: I was comparing Trump to Stalin in the thought experiment).
Don’t be so condescending I read it. It was dumb.
Read it again
Just did. Thinks it’s a misguided statement. I understand you are not specifically comparing Pete to Stalin. And I understand you are in your own amazing way trying to show how others would vote for trump or stay home versus voting for a democratic candidate that they appear to be worse. I also understand that people have different moral compass's and different things matter to them.
But I disagree that anyone could look at trump and Pete or Amy or Warren or just about any other them (for me bernie has been an exception but as it gets closer I really don’t know if I could stay at home and not vote against trump) and think that they are so bad that it’s better to stay at home and end up with trump. I think trump is that bad. And I have a hard time seeing how any of those others rose anywhere close. Sure - you’ll say I’m projecting my moral compass, and I guess I am. But I’d like to know what about any of those candidates is worse then trump for someone that considers themselves “democrat” “moderate” “progressive” etc
No one is saying they're worse than Trump; people are saying they're bad enough they can't bring themselves to vote for them. Just like you might do with Sanders and like you might do if forced to vote for Trump (because the other candidate was even worse, per the thought experiment).
Yes I understand. I’d like to know specifically what about Pete or Amy could be bad enough? Even Warren maybe?
Cause the things I dislike about Bernie, trump presidency is actually better. So what is better about a trump presidency for these people than a Pete or Amy or Warren presidency?
Although health care expenditure per capita is higher in the USA than in any other country, more than 37 million Americans do not have health insurance, and 41 million more have inadequate access to care. Efforts are ongoing to repeal the Affordable Care Act which would exacerbate health-care inequities. By contrast, a universal system, such as that proposed in the Medicare for All Act, has the potential to transform the availability and efficiency of American health-care services. Taking into account both the costs of coverage expansion and the savings that would be achieved through the Medicare for All Act, we calculate that a single-payer, universal health-care system is likely to lead to a 13% savings in national health-care expenditure, equivalent to more than US$450 billion annually (based on the value of the US$ in 2017). The entire system could be funded with less financial outlay than is incurred by employers and households paying for health-care premiums combined with existing government allocations. This shift to single-payer health care would provide the greatest relief to lower-income households. Furthermore, we estimate that ensuring health-care access for all Americans would save more than 68 000 lives and 1·73 million life-years every year compared with the status quo.
Kenny Marks appears in Pete Buttigieg's book as the head of the firefighters union that endorsed him for mayor in 2011. In his first interview since then, Marks tells Managing Editor Jonathan Larsen that Buttigieg fooled him in 2011 and that he's "embarrassed" to be in the book
"...and I am that holdout vote, that can put Buttagieg in the white house or put that Orange Anus back in - you will re-vote the following day. I will not cast a vote for either. /.../ I take voting very seriously, but Buttagieg will not fool me a second time"
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
New Hampshire moron buys into Bernies Fake news about fake news.
Quitcha bitching Bernie and Bros.
"Bernie Sanders is a phenomenon. He doesn't get any attention, people don't talk about him. He just continuing to rack up these big numbers and big margins. And he's doing stuff that we are not talking about enough -- he's appealing to young people, and people of color increasingly, and women and the beer-track voters that people talk about for Biden, they're showing up for Bernie Sanders. He's got an army of unbelievable donors, if anybody else had all that we would be saying - this guy is our guy. But for whatever reason, we continue to talk about everybody but Bernie Sanders."
A thought experiment: imagine the election was Trump v. Someone you personally think is worse than Trump (an almost unfathomable monster). Would you vote for Trump?
I would. I don't think it's wise to allow more evil into power than one has to, and when the risk is as great to the nation as a whole (and really the world based on existing global power dynamics), the realities are as ugly as they are, and the division is this great - I don't believe a protest vote to make reforms to the political structure would have enough odds of success to justify that risk. Out of curiosity, what moral inconsistency are you trying to catch people in the act on with this one?
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
The more I read about Amy the more I like her. I don’t think the time is now for Pete but I think he would be a great vp candidate. If Biden does slip further away I would like to see Amy/ Pete for the dem ticket.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
Regarding work, what if a person was fired because they were 15, 30 an hour late? What if they were late picking up their children from daycare, which is actually what happened when some BLM protestors shut down 95 here in Richmond. You want them to care about your cause but you disregard what's critical in their life?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673619330193
"...and I am that holdout vote, that can put Buttagieg in the white house or put that Orange Anus back in - you will re-vote the following day. I will not cast a vote for either. /.../ I take voting very seriously, but Buttagieg will not fool me a second time"
- Van Jones, CNN
Once again:
News to me.
Have they ever said that Amy could start stabbing people in central park with a comb?
Again, having a pundit say "he makes my skin crawl" etc...
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14