Gender neutral student demands

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Comments

  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    OnWis97 said:
    A few thoughts on "they"
    • "They" is a weird word to use, but it's been a go to word for a long time (i.e., since we stopped defaulting to male) when gender is uncertain.  "When's your new teaching assistant coming?"  "THEY are coming next month" would be the response if that person's identity is unknown.  From a grammar perspective it's odd.  And ideally there'd be a gender-neutral term, but for whatever reason that's not how our language evolved.  What's even stranger is:
    • He/She: Gender-specific only
    • Sibling/brother/sister, parent/mother/father: gender-specific and neutral term
    • Cousin: neutral term only.
    In any case, taking this story at face value, the student needs to pick a name.  

    I appreciate the parents accepting and supporting the student (see...need a gender-neutral term) but part of that support needs to be preparation for going out into the world.  This includes the fact that you're going to need a name to identify yourself with, for a myriad of reasons.
    I always thought I was speaking properly when I would refer to someone with an unknown gender as “he or she,” but apparently I need to clean up the way I speak.  For example, if I’m going to a meeting and I know there will be someone there that I have not met, I might say, “will he or she be attending today?”  But I guess this could come across as offensive? I don’t know what to do anymore. 
    Don't worry about it.

    Just fuck up, apologize if necessary, listen to those who correct/guide you, apply what you have learned, and move forward a wiser person. 

    We're in this thing together.
    Agreed.
    My comment on doing away with pronouns is only half-jest.
    I started shying away from them years ago and moved more towards just always using a person's name...at the time it had nothing to do with gender, it was just about keeping conversations straight in a large, interconnected social circle. After getting used to it, it almost feels disrespectful to reduce an individual to a nearly anonymous he/she.

    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • bbiggs
    bbiggs Posts: 6,964
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    I don't see this as any different than calling someone with the name Kelly "she", or a married woman "Mrs".  If it's a he, or if you prefer "Ms", then it's up to that person or the person who knows them to correct me. I'm not going to fucking ask every single person I meet from now on which pronoun they are, unless I'm told beforehand that there's an identity issue. in that case I'd ask their preference. 

    I will respect your identity, but don't expect me to waste my time finding out. the onus is on you to let it be known or to correct me. 

    My real name is Paul. A woman at work has a nickname for fucking everybody. for reasons unknown to sane people, she calls me Paula. would that be offensive to someone with gender identity issues, thinking it's making fun of that?
    Great post. Made me chuckle.  All fair and true statements imo. 
  • bbiggs
    bbiggs Posts: 6,964
    rgambs said:
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    OnWis97 said:
    A few thoughts on "they"
    • "They" is a weird word to use, but it's been a go to word for a long time (i.e., since we stopped defaulting to male) when gender is uncertain.  "When's your new teaching assistant coming?"  "THEY are coming next month" would be the response if that person's identity is unknown.  From a grammar perspective it's odd.  And ideally there'd be a gender-neutral term, but for whatever reason that's not how our language evolved.  What's even stranger is:
    • He/She: Gender-specific only
    • Sibling/brother/sister, parent/mother/father: gender-specific and neutral term
    • Cousin: neutral term only.
    In any case, taking this story at face value, the student needs to pick a name.  

    I appreciate the parents accepting and supporting the student (see...need a gender-neutral term) but part of that support needs to be preparation for going out into the world.  This includes the fact that you're going to need a name to identify yourself with, for a myriad of reasons.
    I always thought I was speaking properly when I would refer to someone with an unknown gender as “he or she,” but apparently I need to clean up the way I speak.  For example, if I’m going to a meeting and I know there will be someone there that I have not met, I might say, “will he or she be attending today?”  But I guess this could come across as offensive? I don’t know what to do anymore. 
    Don't worry about it.

    Just fuck up, apologize if necessary, listen to those who correct/guide you, apply what you have learned, and move forward a wiser person. 

    We're in this thing together.
    Agreed.
    My comment on doing away with pronouns is only half-jest.
    I started shying away from them years ago and moved more towards just always using a person's name...at the time it had nothing to do with gender, it was just about keeping conversations straight in a large, interconnected social circle. After getting used to it, it almost feels disrespectful to reduce an individual to a nearly anonymous he/she.

    Agreed! But what happens when this person doesn’t want to use a name?! 😂 Back at square one...
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    bbiggs said:
    rgambs said:
    Now it's a first grader?  If I wasn't sure it was bullshit before I would be now lol
    No. “First YEAR teacher,” is what I said, as in she has not taught before.  She teaches high school AP history, so unless the kid is Doogie Howser, he/she/they is likely 17 or 18 years old. 
    Good gawd, talk about being thrown in the deep end!

    I didn't teach for a long time- about 7 years total including two as program assistant in a college- but in that time I never ran into any kind of problem like this.  I think the most difficult student I had was teaching counseling skills and having a female student who believed all male humans on earth should be eliminated.  The head of the program and I decided this person should probably not go into counseling.  I asked my colleague what we should do.  She said, "I think I'll ask her to leave the program."  Thankfully, the student quit.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    bbiggs said:
    rgambs said:
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    OnWis97 said:
    A few thoughts on "they"
    • "They" is a weird word to use, but it's been a go to word for a long time (i.e., since we stopped defaulting to male) when gender is uncertain.  "When's your new teaching assistant coming?"  "THEY are coming next month" would be the response if that person's identity is unknown.  From a grammar perspective it's odd.  And ideally there'd be a gender-neutral term, but for whatever reason that's not how our language evolved.  What's even stranger is:
    • He/She: Gender-specific only
    • Sibling/brother/sister, parent/mother/father: gender-specific and neutral term
    • Cousin: neutral term only.
    In any case, taking this story at face value, the student needs to pick a name.  

    I appreciate the parents accepting and supporting the student (see...need a gender-neutral term) but part of that support needs to be preparation for going out into the world.  This includes the fact that you're going to need a name to identify yourself with, for a myriad of reasons.
    I always thought I was speaking properly when I would refer to someone with an unknown gender as “he or she,” but apparently I need to clean up the way I speak.  For example, if I’m going to a meeting and I know there will be someone there that I have not met, I might say, “will he or she be attending today?”  But I guess this could come across as offensive? I don’t know what to do anymore. 
    Don't worry about it.

    Just fuck up, apologize if necessary, listen to those who correct/guide you, apply what you have learned, and move forward a wiser person. 

    We're in this thing together.
    Agreed.
    My comment on doing away with pronouns is only half-jest.
    I started shying away from them years ago and moved more towards just always using a person's name...at the time it had nothing to do with gender, it was just about keeping conversations straight in a large, interconnected social circle. After getting used to it, it almost feels disrespectful to reduce an individual to a nearly anonymous he/she.

    Agreed! But what happens when this person doesn’t want to use a name?! 😂 Back at square one...
    Hahaha yeah, but that's the part where it either becomes an untrue bullshit story, or, if true, everyone agrees that it's bullshit and the person should fuck off Planet Earth and go to the moon.

    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    bbiggs said:
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    OnWis97 said:
    A few thoughts on "they"
    • "They" is a weird word to use, but it's been a go to word for a long time (i.e., since we stopped defaulting to male) when gender is uncertain.  "When's your new teaching assistant coming?"  "THEY are coming next month" would be the response if that person's identity is unknown.  From a grammar perspective it's odd.  And ideally there'd be a gender-neutral term, but for whatever reason that's not how our language evolved.  What's even stranger is:
    • He/She: Gender-specific only
    • Sibling/brother/sister, parent/mother/father: gender-specific and neutral term
    • Cousin: neutral term only.
    In any case, taking this story at face value, the student needs to pick a name.  

    I appreciate the parents accepting and supporting the student (see...need a gender-neutral term) but part of that support needs to be preparation for going out into the world.  This includes the fact that you're going to need a name to identify yourself with, for a myriad of reasons.
    I always thought I was speaking properly when I would refer to someone with an unknown gender as “he or she,” but apparently I need to clean up the way I speak.  For example, if I’m going to a meeting and I know there will be someone there that I have not met, I might say, “will he or she be attending today?”  But I guess this could come across as offensive? I don’t know what to do anymore. 
    Don't worry about it.

    Just fuck up, apologize if necessary, listen to those who correct/guide you, apply what you have learned, and move forward a wiser person. 

    We're in this thing together.
    Good points and agreed.  I still do have genuine interest in knowing what the proper way to speak in 2019 is though.  I know my way of saying “he or she” was grammatically correct at one point (maybe still is?), but it seems that it is no longer correct (politically?).  Not being a smart ass. Just wondering what is deemed appropriate these days and I haven’t seen a consensus or definitive answer.  I guess “they” is the temporary winner. 
    I'd say that at least 70% of the useful things I've learned so far in this life -- that is, things that have actually stuck with me -- were because I fucked up initially.

    We have our pronouns in our email signatures at my office. I have disabled my email signature because I'm someone who doesn't care about that personally for myself. As I mentioned, Flower is my spirit animal. And I can sign my own damn name if I feel like it.

    But I can certainly understand why identity is important to a great many people in the current climate. We've had a few office- or department-wide emails go around just to help everyone pronounce certain coworkers' names. The emails were sent by the individuals who have those names, and they explained how their names were very important to them, their families and significant to their religious and/or cultural heritage. They welcomed people to stop by their desks and ask them how to pronounce their names and have a conversation about it. One of the senders sits near me, and she has had quite a few people stop by and engage with her. And yeah, I fucked up her name for a while, too.  
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    OnWis97 said:
    A few thoughts on "they"
    • "They" is a weird word to use, but it's been a go to word for a long time (i.e., since we stopped defaulting to male) when gender is uncertain.  "When's your new teaching assistant coming?"  "THEY are coming next month" would be the response if that person's identity is unknown.  From a grammar perspective it's odd.  And ideally there'd be a gender-neutral term, but for whatever reason that's not how our language evolved.  What's even stranger is:
    • He/She: Gender-specific only
    • Sibling/brother/sister, parent/mother/father: gender-specific and neutral term
    • Cousin: neutral term only.
    In any case, taking this story at face value, the student needs to pick a name.  

    I appreciate the parents accepting and supporting the student (see...need a gender-neutral term) but part of that support needs to be preparation for going out into the world.  This includes the fact that you're going to need a name to identify yourself with, for a myriad of reasons.
    I always thought I was speaking properly when I would refer to someone with an unknown gender as “he or she,” but apparently I need to clean up the way I speak.  For example, if I’m going to a meeting and I know there will be someone there that I have not met, I might say, “will he or she be attending today?”  But I guess this could come across as offensive? I don’t know what to do anymore. 
    Don't worry about it.

    Just fuck up, apologize if necessary, listen to those who correct/guide you, apply what you have learned, and move forward a wiser person. 

    We're in this thing together.
    Good points and agreed.  I still do have genuine interest in knowing what the proper way to speak in 2019 is though.  I know my way of saying “he or she” was grammatically correct at one point (maybe still is?), but it seems that it is no longer correct (politically?).  Not being a smart ass. Just wondering what is deemed appropriate these days and I haven’t seen a consensus or definitive answer.  I guess “they” is the temporary winner. 
    I'd say that at least 70% of the useful things I've learned so far in this life -- that is, things that have actually stuck with me -- were because I fucked up initially.

    We have our pronouns in our email signatures at my office. I have disabled my email signature because I'm someone who doesn't care about that personally for myself. As I mentioned, Flower is my spirit animal. And I can sign my own damn name if I feel like it.

    But I can certainly understand why identity is important to a great many people in the current climate. We've had a few office- or department-wide emails go around just to help everyone pronounce certain coworkers' names. The emails were sent by the individuals who have those names, and they explained how their names were very important to them, their families and significant to their religious and/or cultural heritage. They welcomed people to stop by their desks and ask them how to pronounce their names and have a conversation about it. One of the senders sits near me, and she has had quite a few people stop by and engage with her. And yeah, I fucked up her name for a while, too.  
    I really wish my workplace was that progressive and open. we have so many people whose names no one can fucking pronounce, and we're expected to just figure it out. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,836
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    bbiggs said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mrussel1 said:
    bbiggs said:
    ^Haha!!!  Team Sweden for the Win! 🇸🇪 
    Ha! I know.  Swedish nationalism and ethnocentrism comes to the forefront yet again. 
    Sweden doing things better than the US says nothing about nationalism and has nothing to do about puffing up Sweden. 

    It's just shows how awful the US is. #bananarepublic
    Yep, your comments are the very definition of those two nouns  
    Nope. 

    But I get your tries to grasp after straws.

    Sweden has what @brianlux proposed. Nothing more than that. 

    Pumpkin puss.

    I’m not going to do this dance again, but you are a master at twisting your words after the fact.  Now you say, “Sweden has what Brian proposed and nothing more than that.”  If it’s “nothing more than that,” you could have left your post alone after the copy/pasted part.  But nope. You felt inclined to show how the US once again is inferior. It’s cool man. You like ruffling feathers but I don’t think many are getting ruffled anymore. It’s all far too commonplace at this point it almost goes unnoticed. 
    It was a tounge-in-cheek line because of the discussions that has been on this board lately. Nothing more than that. I believe most people get that. But shown by some people stopping by here with some nationalistic flagwaving american pride blinding them they can't take that. Disrespecting 'murica etc. 

    Peeps.
    Says the guy who literally flies the swedish flag on this site.  Hilarious. 
    I don't. 

    Pointing out how awful the US is has nothing to do with being nationalistic.  You ever see me waving anything when talking about other developed countries?

    Grandstanding, like you do, about the US is nationalistic. Because you are defending awful because "b-b-but greatest experiment".

    Midtier country is a midtier country.
    Low tier poster is a low tier poster.  How the hell are you still here?


    hippiemom = goodness
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,474
    cincybearcat said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    bbiggs said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mrussel1 said:
    bbiggs said:
    ^Haha!!!  Team Sweden for the Win! 🇸🇪 
    Ha! I know.  Swedish nationalism and ethnocentrism comes to the forefront yet again. 
    Sweden doing things better than the US says nothing about nationalism and has nothing to do about puffing up Sweden. 

    It's just shows how awful the US is. #bananarepublic
    Yep, your comments are the very definition of those two nouns  
    Nope. 

    But I get your tries to grasp after straws.

    Sweden has what @brianlux proposed. Nothing more than that. 

    Pumpkin puss.

    I’m not going to do this dance again, but you are a master at twisting your words after the fact.  Now you say, “Sweden has what Brian proposed and nothing more than that.”  If it’s “nothing more than that,” you could have left your post alone after the copy/pasted part.  But nope. You felt inclined to show how the US once again is inferior. It’s cool man. You like ruffling feathers but I don’t think many are getting ruffled anymore. It’s all far too commonplace at this point it almost goes unnoticed. 
    It was a tounge-in-cheek line because of the discussions that has been on this board lately. Nothing more than that. I believe most people get that. But shown by some people stopping by here with some nationalistic flagwaving american pride blinding them they can't take that. Disrespecting 'murica etc. 

    Peeps.
    Says the guy who literally flies the swedish flag on this site.  Hilarious. 
    I don't. 

    Pointing out how awful the US is has nothing to do with being nationalistic.  You ever see me waving anything when talking about other developed countries?

    Grandstanding, like you do, about the US is nationalistic. Because you are defending awful because "b-b-but greatest experiment".

    Midtier country is a midtier country.
    Low tier poster is a low tier poster.  How the hell are you still here?



    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    OnWis97 said:
    A few thoughts on "they"
    • "They" is a weird word to use, but it's been a go to word for a long time (i.e., since we stopped defaulting to male) when gender is uncertain.  "When's your new teaching assistant coming?"  "THEY are coming next month" would be the response if that person's identity is unknown.  From a grammar perspective it's odd.  And ideally there'd be a gender-neutral term, but for whatever reason that's not how our language evolved.  What's even stranger is:
    • He/She: Gender-specific only
    • Sibling/brother/sister, parent/mother/father: gender-specific and neutral term
    • Cousin: neutral term only.
    In any case, taking this story at face value, the student needs to pick a name.  

    I appreciate the parents accepting and supporting the student (see...need a gender-neutral term) but part of that support needs to be preparation for going out into the world.  This includes the fact that you're going to need a name to identify yourself with, for a myriad of reasons.
    I always thought I was speaking properly when I would refer to someone with an unknown gender as “he or she,” but apparently I need to clean up the way I speak.  For example, if I’m going to a meeting and I know there will be someone there that I have not met, I might say, “will he or she be attending today?”  But I guess this could come across as offensive? I don’t know what to do anymore. 
    Don't worry about it.

    Just fuck up, apologize if necessary, listen to those who correct/guide you, apply what you have learned, and move forward a wiser person. 

    We're in this thing together.
    Good points and agreed.  I still do have genuine interest in knowing what the proper way to speak in 2019 is though.  I know my way of saying “he or she” was grammatically correct at one point (maybe still is?), but it seems that it is no longer correct (politically?).  Not being a smart ass. Just wondering what is deemed appropriate these days and I haven’t seen a consensus or definitive answer.  I guess “they” is the temporary winner. 
    I'd say that at least 70% of the useful things I've learned so far in this life -- that is, things that have actually stuck with me -- were because I fucked up initially.

    We have our pronouns in our email signatures at my office. I have disabled my email signature because I'm someone who doesn't care about that personally for myself. As I mentioned, Flower is my spirit animal. And I can sign my own damn name if I feel like it.

    But I can certainly understand why identity is important to a great many people in the current climate. We've had a few office- or department-wide emails go around just to help everyone pronounce certain coworkers' names. The emails were sent by the individuals who have those names, and they explained how their names were very important to them, their families and significant to their religious and/or cultural heritage. They welcomed people to stop by their desks and ask them how to pronounce their names and have a conversation about it. One of the senders sits near me, and she has had quite a few people stop by and engage with her. And yeah, I fucked up her name for a while, too.  
    I really wish my workplace was that progressive and open. we have so many people whose names no one can fucking pronounce, and we're expected to just figure it out. 
    Have you ever had someone be offended by asking them how to pronounce?  I ask out of genuine curiosity and goodwill and it has, fortunately, always been met with a lovely conversation.

    So many people have a weird and ignorant fear of pronouncing words outside of the English accent here in American.
    We anglicize every word and place to a shocking degree.
    I'm sure I've told this story here, but my best friend is a Brazilian named Ricardo.
    Portuguese pronunciation is Heecarrdo.
    He introduces himself with his natural, given name, and every other dumb motherfucker he's ever met in America acted confused at Heecarrdo and changed it to Ricardo.  Not even R"ee"cardo, but Rick-ardo.  Even his host family, 15 years later, still calling him Rick-ardo.
    I met a boy who introduced himself as Heecarrdo, I said "Heecarrdo, did I say that right?" and he looked at me like I was Albert Fucking Einstein for getting it right lol
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    rgambs said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    OnWis97 said:
    A few thoughts on "they"
    • "They" is a weird word to use, but it's been a go to word for a long time (i.e., since we stopped defaulting to male) when gender is uncertain.  "When's your new teaching assistant coming?"  "THEY are coming next month" would be the response if that person's identity is unknown.  From a grammar perspective it's odd.  And ideally there'd be a gender-neutral term, but for whatever reason that's not how our language evolved.  What's even stranger is:
    • He/She: Gender-specific only
    • Sibling/brother/sister, parent/mother/father: gender-specific and neutral term
    • Cousin: neutral term only.
    In any case, taking this story at face value, the student needs to pick a name.  

    I appreciate the parents accepting and supporting the student (see...need a gender-neutral term) but part of that support needs to be preparation for going out into the world.  This includes the fact that you're going to need a name to identify yourself with, for a myriad of reasons.
    I always thought I was speaking properly when I would refer to someone with an unknown gender as “he or she,” but apparently I need to clean up the way I speak.  For example, if I’m going to a meeting and I know there will be someone there that I have not met, I might say, “will he or she be attending today?”  But I guess this could come across as offensive? I don’t know what to do anymore. 
    Don't worry about it.

    Just fuck up, apologize if necessary, listen to those who correct/guide you, apply what you have learned, and move forward a wiser person. 

    We're in this thing together.
    Good points and agreed.  I still do have genuine interest in knowing what the proper way to speak in 2019 is though.  I know my way of saying “he or she” was grammatically correct at one point (maybe still is?), but it seems that it is no longer correct (politically?).  Not being a smart ass. Just wondering what is deemed appropriate these days and I haven’t seen a consensus or definitive answer.  I guess “they” is the temporary winner. 
    I'd say that at least 70% of the useful things I've learned so far in this life -- that is, things that have actually stuck with me -- were because I fucked up initially.

    We have our pronouns in our email signatures at my office. I have disabled my email signature because I'm someone who doesn't care about that personally for myself. As I mentioned, Flower is my spirit animal. And I can sign my own damn name if I feel like it.

    But I can certainly understand why identity is important to a great many people in the current climate. We've had a few office- or department-wide emails go around just to help everyone pronounce certain coworkers' names. The emails were sent by the individuals who have those names, and they explained how their names were very important to them, their families and significant to their religious and/or cultural heritage. They welcomed people to stop by their desks and ask them how to pronounce their names and have a conversation about it. One of the senders sits near me, and she has had quite a few people stop by and engage with her. And yeah, I fucked up her name for a while, too.  
    I really wish my workplace was that progressive and open. we have so many people whose names no one can fucking pronounce, and we're expected to just figure it out. 
    Have you ever had someone be offended by asking them how to pronounce?  I ask out of genuine curiosity and goodwill and it has, fortunately, always been met with a lovely conversation.

    So many people have a weird and ignorant fear of pronouncing words outside of the English accent here in American.
    We anglicize every word and place to a shocking degree.
    I'm sure I've told this story here, but my best friend is a Brazilian named Ricardo.
    Portuguese pronunciation is Heecarrdo.
    He introduces himself with his natural, given name, and every other dumb motherfucker he's ever met in America acted confused at Heecarrdo and changed it to Ricardo.  Not even R"ee"cardo, but Rick-ardo.  Even his host family, 15 years later, still calling him Rick-ardo.
    I met a boy who introduced himself as Heecarrdo, I said "Heecarrdo, did I say that right?" and he looked at me like I was Albert Fucking Einstein for getting it right lol
    I'm not sure that I have, to be honest with you. I've sometimes quietly asked others how to pronounce it, if they weren't introduced to me personally, but through an email announcing their hire. I honestly have been timid of offending. 

    I also find it odd that so many people with "different" names just take on anglo names. A guy I work with, Jatinder, goes by Jack instead. I guess it's just easier so as to avoid the "how do you pronounce that?" conversation I mentioned being afraid of having. 

    Do north americans change their first names to local dialects when they move to a place like India? doubt it. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    rgambs said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    OnWis97 said:
    A few thoughts on "they"
    • "They" is a weird word to use, but it's been a go to word for a long time (i.e., since we stopped defaulting to male) when gender is uncertain.  "When's your new teaching assistant coming?"  "THEY are coming next month" would be the response if that person's identity is unknown.  From a grammar perspective it's odd.  And ideally there'd be a gender-neutral term, but for whatever reason that's not how our language evolved.  What's even stranger is:
    • He/She: Gender-specific only
    • Sibling/brother/sister, parent/mother/father: gender-specific and neutral term
    • Cousin: neutral term only.
    In any case, taking this story at face value, the student needs to pick a name.  

    I appreciate the parents accepting and supporting the student (see...need a gender-neutral term) but part of that support needs to be preparation for going out into the world.  This includes the fact that you're going to need a name to identify yourself with, for a myriad of reasons.
    I always thought I was speaking properly when I would refer to someone with an unknown gender as “he or she,” but apparently I need to clean up the way I speak.  For example, if I’m going to a meeting and I know there will be someone there that I have not met, I might say, “will he or she be attending today?”  But I guess this could come across as offensive? I don’t know what to do anymore. 
    Don't worry about it.

    Just fuck up, apologize if necessary, listen to those who correct/guide you, apply what you have learned, and move forward a wiser person. 

    We're in this thing together.
    Good points and agreed.  I still do have genuine interest in knowing what the proper way to speak in 2019 is though.  I know my way of saying “he or she” was grammatically correct at one point (maybe still is?), but it seems that it is no longer correct (politically?).  Not being a smart ass. Just wondering what is deemed appropriate these days and I haven’t seen a consensus or definitive answer.  I guess “they” is the temporary winner. 
    I'd say that at least 70% of the useful things I've learned so far in this life -- that is, things that have actually stuck with me -- were because I fucked up initially.

    We have our pronouns in our email signatures at my office. I have disabled my email signature because I'm someone who doesn't care about that personally for myself. As I mentioned, Flower is my spirit animal. And I can sign my own damn name if I feel like it.

    But I can certainly understand why identity is important to a great many people in the current climate. We've had a few office- or department-wide emails go around just to help everyone pronounce certain coworkers' names. The emails were sent by the individuals who have those names, and they explained how their names were very important to them, their families and significant to their religious and/or cultural heritage. They welcomed people to stop by their desks and ask them how to pronounce their names and have a conversation about it. One of the senders sits near me, and she has had quite a few people stop by and engage with her. And yeah, I fucked up her name for a while, too.  
    I really wish my workplace was that progressive and open. we have so many people whose names no one can fucking pronounce, and we're expected to just figure it out. 
    Have you ever had someone be offended by asking them how to pronounce?  I ask out of genuine curiosity and goodwill and it has, fortunately, always been met with a lovely conversation.

    So many people have a weird and ignorant fear of pronouncing words outside of the English accent here in American.
    We anglicize every word and place to a shocking degree.
    I'm sure I've told this story here, but my best friend is a Brazilian named Ricardo.
    Portuguese pronunciation is Heecarrdo.
    He introduces himself with his natural, given name, and every other dumb motherfucker he's ever met in America acted confused at Heecarrdo and changed it to Ricardo.  Not even R"ee"cardo, but Rick-ardo.  Even his host family, 15 years later, still calling him Rick-ardo.
    I met a boy who introduced himself as Heecarrdo, I said "Heecarrdo, did I say that right?" and he looked at me like I was Albert Fucking Einstein for getting it right lol
    I'm not sure that I have, to be honest with you. I've sometimes quietly asked others how to pronounce it, if they weren't introduced to me personally, but through an email announcing their hire. I honestly have been timid of offending. 

    I also find it odd that so many people with "different" names just take on anglo names. A guy I work with, Jatinder, goes by Jack instead. I guess it's just easier so as to avoid the "how do you pronounce that?" conversation I mentioned being afraid of having. 

    Do north americans change their first names to local dialects when they move to a place like India? doubt it. 
    I doubt it as well.  I'm sad that it's a Canadian thing too.
    It's honestly a pet peeve for me, majorly irritating.
    I was almost 30 years old before I learned there is no place called Florence in Italy. 
    Why the fuck can't it just be Firenze?  Why do we have to hillbillify everything?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Jatinder seems like a sweet-ass name, I'd like to hear that one pronounced by it's owner.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    rgambs said:
    Jatinder seems like a sweet-ass name, I'd like to hear that one pronounced by it's owner.
    my job made me aware of his real name, so I called him that once. He just smiled at me and said "close". LOL
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    rgambs said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    rgambs said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    OnWis97 said:
    A few thoughts on "they"
    • "They" is a weird word to use, but it's been a go to word for a long time (i.e., since we stopped defaulting to male) when gender is uncertain.  "When's your new teaching assistant coming?"  "THEY are coming next month" would be the response if that person's identity is unknown.  From a grammar perspective it's odd.  And ideally there'd be a gender-neutral term, but for whatever reason that's not how our language evolved.  What's even stranger is:
    • He/She: Gender-specific only
    • Sibling/brother/sister, parent/mother/father: gender-specific and neutral term
    • Cousin: neutral term only.
    In any case, taking this story at face value, the student needs to pick a name.  

    I appreciate the parents accepting and supporting the student (see...need a gender-neutral term) but part of that support needs to be preparation for going out into the world.  This includes the fact that you're going to need a name to identify yourself with, for a myriad of reasons.
    I always thought I was speaking properly when I would refer to someone with an unknown gender as “he or she,” but apparently I need to clean up the way I speak.  For example, if I’m going to a meeting and I know there will be someone there that I have not met, I might say, “will he or she be attending today?”  But I guess this could come across as offensive? I don’t know what to do anymore. 
    Don't worry about it.

    Just fuck up, apologize if necessary, listen to those who correct/guide you, apply what you have learned, and move forward a wiser person. 

    We're in this thing together.
    Good points and agreed.  I still do have genuine interest in knowing what the proper way to speak in 2019 is though.  I know my way of saying “he or she” was grammatically correct at one point (maybe still is?), but it seems that it is no longer correct (politically?).  Not being a smart ass. Just wondering what is deemed appropriate these days and I haven’t seen a consensus or definitive answer.  I guess “they” is the temporary winner. 
    I'd say that at least 70% of the useful things I've learned so far in this life -- that is, things that have actually stuck with me -- were because I fucked up initially.

    We have our pronouns in our email signatures at my office. I have disabled my email signature because I'm someone who doesn't care about that personally for myself. As I mentioned, Flower is my spirit animal. And I can sign my own damn name if I feel like it.

    But I can certainly understand why identity is important to a great many people in the current climate. We've had a few office- or department-wide emails go around just to help everyone pronounce certain coworkers' names. The emails were sent by the individuals who have those names, and they explained how their names were very important to them, their families and significant to their religious and/or cultural heritage. They welcomed people to stop by their desks and ask them how to pronounce their names and have a conversation about it. One of the senders sits near me, and she has had quite a few people stop by and engage with her. And yeah, I fucked up her name for a while, too.  
    I really wish my workplace was that progressive and open. we have so many people whose names no one can fucking pronounce, and we're expected to just figure it out. 
    Have you ever had someone be offended by asking them how to pronounce?  I ask out of genuine curiosity and goodwill and it has, fortunately, always been met with a lovely conversation.

    So many people have a weird and ignorant fear of pronouncing words outside of the English accent here in American.
    We anglicize every word and place to a shocking degree.
    I'm sure I've told this story here, but my best friend is a Brazilian named Ricardo.
    Portuguese pronunciation is Heecarrdo.
    He introduces himself with his natural, given name, and every other dumb motherfucker he's ever met in America acted confused at Heecarrdo and changed it to Ricardo.  Not even R"ee"cardo, but Rick-ardo.  Even his host family, 15 years later, still calling him Rick-ardo.
    I met a boy who introduced himself as Heecarrdo, I said "Heecarrdo, did I say that right?" and he looked at me like I was Albert Fucking Einstein for getting it right lol
    I'm not sure that I have, to be honest with you. I've sometimes quietly asked others how to pronounce it, if they weren't introduced to me personally, but through an email announcing their hire. I honestly have been timid of offending. 

    I also find it odd that so many people with "different" names just take on anglo names. A guy I work with, Jatinder, goes by Jack instead. I guess it's just easier so as to avoid the "how do you pronounce that?" conversation I mentioned being afraid of having. 

    Do north americans change their first names to local dialects when they move to a place like India? doubt it. 
    I doubt it as well.  I'm sad that it's a Canadian thing too.
    It's honestly a pet peeve for me, majorly irritating.
    I was almost 30 years old before I learned there is no place called Florence in Italy. 
    Why the fuck can't it just be Firenze?  Why do we have to hillbillify everything?
    I was today years old when I found out there's no place called Florence in Italy. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    rgambs said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    OnWis97 said:
    A few thoughts on "they"
    • "They" is a weird word to use, but it's been a go to word for a long time (i.e., since we stopped defaulting to male) when gender is uncertain.  "When's your new teaching assistant coming?"  "THEY are coming next month" would be the response if that person's identity is unknown.  From a grammar perspective it's odd.  And ideally there'd be a gender-neutral term, but for whatever reason that's not how our language evolved.  What's even stranger is:
    • He/She: Gender-specific only
    • Sibling/brother/sister, parent/mother/father: gender-specific and neutral term
    • Cousin: neutral term only.
    In any case, taking this story at face value, the student needs to pick a name.  

    I appreciate the parents accepting and supporting the student (see...need a gender-neutral term) but part of that support needs to be preparation for going out into the world.  This includes the fact that you're going to need a name to identify yourself with, for a myriad of reasons.
    I always thought I was speaking properly when I would refer to someone with an unknown gender as “he or she,” but apparently I need to clean up the way I speak.  For example, if I’m going to a meeting and I know there will be someone there that I have not met, I might say, “will he or she be attending today?”  But I guess this could come across as offensive? I don’t know what to do anymore. 
    Don't worry about it.

    Just fuck up, apologize if necessary, listen to those who correct/guide you, apply what you have learned, and move forward a wiser person. 

    We're in this thing together.
    Good points and agreed.  I still do have genuine interest in knowing what the proper way to speak in 2019 is though.  I know my way of saying “he or she” was grammatically correct at one point (maybe still is?), but it seems that it is no longer correct (politically?).  Not being a smart ass. Just wondering what is deemed appropriate these days and I haven’t seen a consensus or definitive answer.  I guess “they” is the temporary winner. 
    I'd say that at least 70% of the useful things I've learned so far in this life -- that is, things that have actually stuck with me -- were because I fucked up initially.

    We have our pronouns in our email signatures at my office. I have disabled my email signature because I'm someone who doesn't care about that personally for myself. As I mentioned, Flower is my spirit animal. And I can sign my own damn name if I feel like it.

    But I can certainly understand why identity is important to a great many people in the current climate. We've had a few office- or department-wide emails go around just to help everyone pronounce certain coworkers' names. The emails were sent by the individuals who have those names, and they explained how their names were very important to them, their families and significant to their religious and/or cultural heritage. They welcomed people to stop by their desks and ask them how to pronounce their names and have a conversation about it. One of the senders sits near me, and she has had quite a few people stop by and engage with her. And yeah, I fucked up her name for a while, too.  
    I really wish my workplace was that progressive and open. we have so many people whose names no one can fucking pronounce, and we're expected to just figure it out. 
    Have you ever had someone be offended by asking them how to pronounce?  I ask out of genuine curiosity and goodwill and it has, fortunately, always been met with a lovely conversation.

    So many people have a weird and ignorant fear of pronouncing words outside of the English accent here in American.
    We anglicize every word and place to a shocking degree.
    I'm sure I've told this story here, but my best friend is a Brazilian named Ricardo.
    Portuguese pronunciation is Heecarrdo.
    He introduces himself with his natural, given name, and every other dumb motherfucker he's ever met in America acted confused at Heecarrdo and changed it to Ricardo.  Not even R"ee"cardo, but Rick-ardo.  Even his host family, 15 years later, still calling him Rick-ardo.
    I met a boy who introduced himself as Heecarrdo, I said "Heecarrdo, did I say that right?" and he looked at me like I was Albert Fucking Einstein for getting it right lol
    On the other hand, my wife is of Estonian descent, and her last name is Mikk. So when her hot red-headed self first arrived on the college bar scene in Allston (Boston's largest student ghetto) and horny Irish male bartenders excited about the new freshman flock would ask her what her last name was, she'd spell it. If they asked how it was pronounced, she'd simply answer, "How it's spelled." 

    :rofl:
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    rgambs said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    rgambs said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    OnWis97 said:
    A few thoughts on "they"
    • "They" is a weird word to use, but it's been a go to word for a long time (i.e., since we stopped defaulting to male) when gender is uncertain.  "When's your new teaching assistant coming?"  "THEY are coming next month" would be the response if that person's identity is unknown.  From a grammar perspective it's odd.  And ideally there'd be a gender-neutral term, but for whatever reason that's not how our language evolved.  What's even stranger is:
    • He/She: Gender-specific only
    • Sibling/brother/sister, parent/mother/father: gender-specific and neutral term
    • Cousin: neutral term only.
    In any case, taking this story at face value, the student needs to pick a name.  

    I appreciate the parents accepting and supporting the student (see...need a gender-neutral term) but part of that support needs to be preparation for going out into the world.  This includes the fact that you're going to need a name to identify yourself with, for a myriad of reasons.
    I always thought I was speaking properly when I would refer to someone with an unknown gender as “he or she,” but apparently I need to clean up the way I speak.  For example, if I’m going to a meeting and I know there will be someone there that I have not met, I might say, “will he or she be attending today?”  But I guess this could come across as offensive? I don’t know what to do anymore. 
    Don't worry about it.

    Just fuck up, apologize if necessary, listen to those who correct/guide you, apply what you have learned, and move forward a wiser person. 

    We're in this thing together.
    Good points and agreed.  I still do have genuine interest in knowing what the proper way to speak in 2019 is though.  I know my way of saying “he or she” was grammatically correct at one point (maybe still is?), but it seems that it is no longer correct (politically?).  Not being a smart ass. Just wondering what is deemed appropriate these days and I haven’t seen a consensus or definitive answer.  I guess “they” is the temporary winner. 
    I'd say that at least 70% of the useful things I've learned so far in this life -- that is, things that have actually stuck with me -- were because I fucked up initially.

    We have our pronouns in our email signatures at my office. I have disabled my email signature because I'm someone who doesn't care about that personally for myself. As I mentioned, Flower is my spirit animal. And I can sign my own damn name if I feel like it.

    But I can certainly understand why identity is important to a great many people in the current climate. We've had a few office- or department-wide emails go around just to help everyone pronounce certain coworkers' names. The emails were sent by the individuals who have those names, and they explained how their names were very important to them, their families and significant to their religious and/or cultural heritage. They welcomed people to stop by their desks and ask them how to pronounce their names and have a conversation about it. One of the senders sits near me, and she has had quite a few people stop by and engage with her. And yeah, I fucked up her name for a while, too.  
    I really wish my workplace was that progressive and open. we have so many people whose names no one can fucking pronounce, and we're expected to just figure it out. 
    Have you ever had someone be offended by asking them how to pronounce?  I ask out of genuine curiosity and goodwill and it has, fortunately, always been met with a lovely conversation.

    So many people have a weird and ignorant fear of pronouncing words outside of the English accent here in American.
    We anglicize every word and place to a shocking degree.
    I'm sure I've told this story here, but my best friend is a Brazilian named Ricardo.
    Portuguese pronunciation is Heecarrdo.
    He introduces himself with his natural, given name, and every other dumb motherfucker he's ever met in America acted confused at Heecarrdo and changed it to Ricardo.  Not even R"ee"cardo, but Rick-ardo.  Even his host family, 15 years later, still calling him Rick-ardo.
    I met a boy who introduced himself as Heecarrdo, I said "Heecarrdo, did I say that right?" and he looked at me like I was Albert Fucking Einstein for getting it right lol
    I'm not sure that I have, to be honest with you. I've sometimes quietly asked others how to pronounce it, if they weren't introduced to me personally, but through an email announcing their hire. I honestly have been timid of offending. 

    I also find it odd that so many people with "different" names just take on anglo names. A guy I work with, Jatinder, goes by Jack instead. I guess it's just easier so as to avoid the "how do you pronounce that?" conversation I mentioned being afraid of having. 

    Do north americans change their first names to local dialects when they move to a place like India? doubt it. 
    I doubt it as well.  I'm sad that it's a Canadian thing too.
    It's honestly a pet peeve for me, majorly irritating.
    I was almost 30 years old before I learned there is no place called Florence in Italy. 
    Why the fuck can't it just be Firenze?  Why do we have to hillbillify everything?
    I was today years old when I found out there's no place called Florence in Italy. 
    Your entire world geography lesson was a lie lol
    Florence is Firenze, Vienna is Wien (Veen), Germany is Deutschland and German is Deutsche (doy-cheh), Paris is pronounced pah-ree, Venice is actually Venezia...the list goes on and on.
    To be fair though, within Europe they don't have standard names for places either, pretty sure Italians call Paris Parigia...still much closer than Pair-us.

    Side note, "I was today years old when I learned" is maybe my favorite internet-age phrase.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    oftenreading said:
    bbiggs said:
    oftenreading said:
    rgambs said:
    "It" sounds like a Facebook meme that your crazy aunt Linda shares while she laments about God being kicked out of schools.

    Sounds like there are quite a few pearl-clutching old grannies in here, and maybe one or two who'd like to go back to the good ol' days when gay, trans and otherwise gender-fluid kids were bullied mercilessly and killed themselves in high numbers, but by god they got called by their legal names.

    I think it's perfectly reasonable to have an empathetic and experienced person sit down with this kid and say "You have to chose a name that we can call you each day." I think it's unreasonable to demand that the kid be called their legal given name.
    I haven’t seen anyone suggest this person must be called by their legal given name. What has been suggested is that this person choose ONE name, whatever it may be, rather than making life difficult for everyone and demanding to be called the name of their choice on a daily basis.  I think you’ve misinterpreted a lot of what has been discussed unless you’re referring to different threads. 
    "It" must be registered with the district under a name. Presumably "it's" legal name. "It" should be called by "it's" legal name. If "it" doesn't like that, then "it" needs to have that changed. 

    Yup, someone did, since a kid can't get their name legally changed on their own. 
    Jesus Christ, try to keep up. "It" was in quotations because that is how the student was identified in the original post. And "It" decided not to respond or be recognized by name. My point was that "it" would be officially known by "it's" legal name on school registrations, driver's license, birth certificate, social security number, etc... If "it" wanted to be called a nickname, as I mentioned in a follow on post, then by all means - I mentioned that many of us did. My legal name is Jeffrey but I go by Jeff. That's something that is sorted on the first day of class. Same for "it". They can announce what they'd like to be called. But they can't change that daily and assume everyone will be able to keep up. That is not reasonable. Quit being obtuse.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • bbiggs
    bbiggs Posts: 6,964
    jeffbr said:
    oftenreading said:
    bbiggs said:
    oftenreading said:
    rgambs said:
    "It" sounds like a Facebook meme that your crazy aunt Linda shares while she laments about God being kicked out of schools.

    Sounds like there are quite a few pearl-clutching old grannies in here, and maybe one or two who'd like to go back to the good ol' days when gay, trans and otherwise gender-fluid kids were bullied mercilessly and killed themselves in high numbers, but by god they got called by their legal names.

    I think it's perfectly reasonable to have an empathetic and experienced person sit down with this kid and say "You have to chose a name that we can call you each day." I think it's unreasonable to demand that the kid be called their legal given name.
    I haven’t seen anyone suggest this person must be called by their legal given name. What has been suggested is that this person choose ONE name, whatever it may be, rather than making life difficult for everyone and demanding to be called the name of their choice on a daily basis.  I think you’ve misinterpreted a lot of what has been discussed unless you’re referring to different threads. 
    "It" must be registered with the district under a name. Presumably "it's" legal name. "It" should be called by "it's" legal name. If "it" doesn't like that, then "it" needs to have that changed. 

    Yup, someone did, since a kid can't get their name legally changed on their own. 
    Jesus Christ, try to keep up. "It" was in quotations because that is how the student was identified in the original post. And "It" decided not to respond or be recognized by name. My point was that "it" would be officially known by "it's" legal name on school registrations, driver's license, birth certificate, social security number, etc... If "it" wanted to be called a nickname, as I mentioned in a follow on post, then by all means - I mentioned that many of us did. My legal name is Jeffrey but I go by Jeff. That's something that is sorted on the first day of class. Same for "it". They can announce what they'd like to be called. But they can't change that daily and assume everyone will be able to keep up. That is not reasonable. Quit being obtuse.

  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,836
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    rgambs said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    rgambs said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    dankind said:
    bbiggs said:
    OnWis97 said:
    A few thoughts on "they"
    • "They" is a weird word to use, but it's been a go to word for a long time (i.e., since we stopped defaulting to male) when gender is uncertain.  "When's your new teaching assistant coming?"  "THEY are coming next month" would be the response if that person's identity is unknown.  From a grammar perspective it's odd.  And ideally there'd be a gender-neutral term, but for whatever reason that's not how our language evolved.  What's even stranger is:
    • He/She: Gender-specific only
    • Sibling/brother/sister, parent/mother/father: gender-specific and neutral term
    • Cousin: neutral term only.
    In any case, taking this story at face value, the student needs to pick a name.  

    I appreciate the parents accepting and supporting the student (see...need a gender-neutral term) but part of that support needs to be preparation for going out into the world.  This includes the fact that you're going to need a name to identify yourself with, for a myriad of reasons.
    I always thought I was speaking properly when I would refer to someone with an unknown gender as “he or she,” but apparently I need to clean up the way I speak.  For example, if I’m going to a meeting and I know there will be someone there that I have not met, I might say, “will he or she be attending today?”  But I guess this could come across as offensive? I don’t know what to do anymore. 
    Don't worry about it.

    Just fuck up, apologize if necessary, listen to those who correct/guide you, apply what you have learned, and move forward a wiser person. 

    We're in this thing together.
    Good points and agreed.  I still do have genuine interest in knowing what the proper way to speak in 2019 is though.  I know my way of saying “he or she” was grammatically correct at one point (maybe still is?), but it seems that it is no longer correct (politically?).  Not being a smart ass. Just wondering what is deemed appropriate these days and I haven’t seen a consensus or definitive answer.  I guess “they” is the temporary winner. 
    I'd say that at least 70% of the useful things I've learned so far in this life -- that is, things that have actually stuck with me -- were because I fucked up initially.

    We have our pronouns in our email signatures at my office. I have disabled my email signature because I'm someone who doesn't care about that personally for myself. As I mentioned, Flower is my spirit animal. And I can sign my own damn name if I feel like it.

    But I can certainly understand why identity is important to a great many people in the current climate. We've had a few office- or department-wide emails go around just to help everyone pronounce certain coworkers' names. The emails were sent by the individuals who have those names, and they explained how their names were very important to them, their families and significant to their religious and/or cultural heritage. They welcomed people to stop by their desks and ask them how to pronounce their names and have a conversation about it. One of the senders sits near me, and she has had quite a few people stop by and engage with her. And yeah, I fucked up her name for a while, too.  
    I really wish my workplace was that progressive and open. we have so many people whose names no one can fucking pronounce, and we're expected to just figure it out. 
    Have you ever had someone be offended by asking them how to pronounce?  I ask out of genuine curiosity and goodwill and it has, fortunately, always been met with a lovely conversation.

    So many people have a weird and ignorant fear of pronouncing words outside of the English accent here in American.
    We anglicize every word and place to a shocking degree.
    I'm sure I've told this story here, but my best friend is a Brazilian named Ricardo.
    Portuguese pronunciation is Heecarrdo.
    He introduces himself with his natural, given name, and every other dumb motherfucker he's ever met in America acted confused at Heecarrdo and changed it to Ricardo.  Not even R"ee"cardo, but Rick-ardo.  Even his host family, 15 years later, still calling him Rick-ardo.
    I met a boy who introduced himself as Heecarrdo, I said "Heecarrdo, did I say that right?" and he looked at me like I was Albert Fucking Einstein for getting it right lol
    I'm not sure that I have, to be honest with you. I've sometimes quietly asked others how to pronounce it, if they weren't introduced to me personally, but through an email announcing their hire. I honestly have been timid of offending. 

    I also find it odd that so many people with "different" names just take on anglo names. A guy I work with, Jatinder, goes by Jack instead. I guess it's just easier so as to avoid the "how do you pronounce that?" conversation I mentioned being afraid of having. 

    Do north americans change their first names to local dialects when they move to a place like India? doubt it. 
    I doubt it as well.  I'm sad that it's a Canadian thing too.
    It's honestly a pet peeve for me, majorly irritating.
    I was almost 30 years old before I learned there is no place called Florence in Italy. 
    Why the fuck can't it just be Firenze?  Why do we have to hillbillify everything?
    I was today years old when I found out there's no place called Florence in Italy. 
    Me too.  And I've been there....for only a day though.
    hippiemom = goodness

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