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Gender neutral student demands

bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,950
in A Moving Train
My friend sent me the following text today:

“My daughter has her first day of teaching High School tomorrow.  She teaches AP History at a local high school. She is in meetings today with other teachers and she was informed she has a Senior student who is not a boy or a girl and only answers to different nouns that “it” chooses on a daily basis.  “It” refuses to respond when called by its name.”

Gender neutrality topic aside, I find this troubling that a HS Administration must succumb to the pressure of a student who demands to be called something different on a daily basis. 
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Comments

  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,520
    Stress testing the system
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,583
    home school "it". such a student would be disruptive to the rest of the class and maybe the school as well. what happens when the teacher doesnt guess right? either choose something consistent or stay at home.

    its funny, they can feel like whatever they want, male female neutral, and I can "feel" like addressing them as I see presented
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 Posts: 28,495
    This scares me as a teacher,  it is a lawsuit waiting to happen.  Ugh
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,583
    I wonder what the disciplinary history is for this student.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    LMFAO...he/she/it/they should get no preferential treatment and if whatever refuses to cooperate boot their ass out and tell the parents to find a school that will put up with this attention-getting fools nonsense.  I blame the parents, they obviously let this fool get away all this nonsense.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,520
    edited August 2019
    mcgruff10 said:
    This scares me as a teacher,  it is a lawsuit waiting to happen.  Ugh
    America with its lawsuit culture. Never not funny.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,950
    mickeyrat said:
    home school "it". such a student would be disruptive to the rest of the class and maybe the school as well. what happens when the teacher doesnt guess right? either choose something consistent or stay at home.

    its funny, they can feel like whatever they want, male female neutral, and I can "feel" like addressing them as I see presented
    Perfectly said.  This is a case of the inmates running the asylum.  
  • bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,950
    mcgruff10 said:
    This scares me as a teacher,  it is a lawsuit waiting to happen.  Ugh
    That’s probably the HS Administration’s take as well.  It’s sad it has come to that. Welcome to 2019 America. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,025
    I have to assume this person is an intersex person (previously referred to as a "hermaphrodite").  As with being gay, that's not a choice.  But what do you call a person who is both?  "It" seems degrading.  So what then?

    What I don't get is the kid refusing to answer to a name.  Why not?  Is Mary too female, Bart too male?  Give yourself a nickname and be Marty.  Or what ever.   Why would the kid make things matter by not using some kind of name? And why a different noun everyday? 

    If I were that teacher, I would would tell the kid, "Pick one word, that's all you get.  I'm not going to call you or anybody else by a different name or word everyday.  Either be reasonable or get out of my class."

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    I don't doubt the veracity of the poster, but I highly doubt the veracity of the story as relayed.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • jeffbrjeffbr Posts: 7,177
    "It" must be registered with the district under a name. Presumably "it's" legal name. "It" should be called by "it's" legal name. If "it" doesn't like that, then "it" needs to have that changed. But it is not up to the school or the teacher to keep track of what "it" prefers to be called on any given day.

    Who is in charge there? The obnoxious kid, or the school? "It" will be called by "it's" name. Simple.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    "It" sounds like a Facebook meme that your crazy aunt Linda shares while she laments about God being kicked out of schools.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • dankinddankind Posts: 20,839
    Flower is my spirit animal.


    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,168
    rgambs said:
    "It" sounds like a Facebook meme that your crazy aunt Linda shares while she laments about God being kicked out of schools.
    Agreed. 
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,950
    I know this sounds like an unbelievable story, but my buddy is not one to embellish at all.  Sadly enough, as outlandish as the story seems, it doesn’t shock me in today’s day and age. The school needs to have a backbone. 
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Posts: 10,763
    bbiggs said:
    I know this sounds like an unbelievable story, but my buddy is not one to embellish at all.  Sadly enough, as outlandish as the story seems, it doesn’t shock me in today’s day and age. The school needs to have a backbone. 
    Where is this taking place?
  • bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,950
    Bentleyspop said:
    bbiggs said:
    I know this sounds like an unbelievable story, but my buddy is not one to embellish at all.  Sadly enough, as outlandish as the story seems, it doesn’t shock me in today’s day and age. The school needs to have a backbone. 
    Where is this taking place?
    Suburban Chicago, about 20 miles west of downtown. It was the neighboring high school to the one I went to growing up. 
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845
    brianlux said:
    I have to assume this person is an intersex person (previously referred to as a "hermaphrodite").  As with being gay, that's not a choice.  But what do you call a person who is both?  "It" seems degrading.  So what then?

    What I don't get is the kid refusing to answer to a name.  Why not?  Is Mary too female, Bart too male?  Give yourself a nickname and be Marty.  Or what ever.   Why would the kid make things matter by not using some kind of name? And why a different noun everyday? 

    If I were that teacher, I would would tell the kid, "Pick one word, that's all you get.  I'm not going to call you or anybody else by a different name or word everyday.  Either be reasonable or get out of my class."

    The typical non-specific pronoun these days is "they", Brian. It takes a bit of getting used to for those of us who prefer to keep our singular and plural pronouns separate, but less bothersome than most of the alternatives, and at least is not degrading, as you point out. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845
    rgambs said:
    "It" sounds like a Facebook meme that your crazy aunt Linda shares while she laments about God being kicked out of schools.

    Sounds like there are quite a few pearl-clutching old grannies in here, and maybe one or two who'd like to go back to the good ol' days when gay, trans and otherwise gender-fluid kids were bullied mercilessly and killed themselves in high numbers, but by god they got called by their legal names.

    I think it's perfectly reasonable to have an empathetic and experienced person sit down with this kid and say "You have to chose a name that we can call you each day." I think it's unreasonable to demand that the kid be called their legal given name.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,583
    edited August 2019
    oftenreading said:
    rgambs said:
    "It" sounds like a Facebook meme that your crazy aunt Linda shares while she laments about God being kicked out of schools.

    Sounds like there are quite a few pearl-clutching old grannies in here, and maybe one or two who'd like to go back to the good ol' days when gay, trans and otherwise gender-fluid kids were bullied mercilessly and killed themselves in high numbers, but by god they got called by their legal names.

    I think it's perfectly reasonable to have an empathetic and experienced person sit down with this kid and say "You have to chose a name that we can call you each day." I think it's unreasonable to demand that the kid be called their legal given name.
    they had to register with something, as far as I remember it was your birth cetificate. from that registration comes the initial attendence lists. from there the teacher would be asking the question as to what the student prefers to be called, i.e. nickname, etc. Thats usually only asked once.

    I am interested to know how the parents are accommodating their child. it begins there.

    All else fails the teacher can simply say "hey you....."

    otherwise, the student can be homeschooled......


    its ironic you bring up the "good old days" about  bullying and the like and in the same breath call some here "pearl clutching old grannies"
    Post edited by mickeyrat on
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 Posts: 28,495
    mickeyrat said:
    oftenreading said:
    rgambs said:
    "It" sounds like a Facebook meme that your crazy aunt Linda shares while she laments about God being kicked out of schools.

    Sounds like there are quite a few pearl-clutching old grannies in here, and maybe one or two who'd like to go back to the good ol' days when gay, trans and otherwise gender-fluid kids were bullied mercilessly and killed themselves in high numbers, but by god they got called by their legal names.

    I think it's perfectly reasonable to have an empathetic and experienced person sit down with this kid and say "You have to chose a name that we can call you each day." I think it's unreasonable to demand that the kid be called their legal given name.
    they had to register with something, as far as I remember it was your birth cetificate. from that registration comes the initial attendence lists. from there the teacher would be asking the question as to what the student prefers to be cslled, i.e. nickname, etc. Thats usually only asked once.

    I am interested to know how the parents are accommodating their child. it begins there.

    All else fails the teacher can simpmy say "hey you....."

    otherwise, the student can be homeschooled......

    The other middle school is our district had a big in service at the end of the school year about this topic. I m guessing mine will be in two weeks. I ll report back with details. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • jeffbrjeffbr Posts: 7,177
    oftenreading said:
    rgambs said:
    "It" sounds like a Facebook meme that your crazy aunt Linda shares while she laments about God being kicked out of schools.

    Sounds like there are quite a few pearl-clutching old grannies in here, and maybe one or two who'd like to go back to the good ol' days when gay, trans and otherwise gender-fluid kids were bullied mercilessly and killed themselves in high numbers, but by god they got called by their legal names.

    I think it's perfectly reasonable to have an empathetic and experienced person sit down with this kid and say "You have to chose a name that we can call you each day." I think it's unreasonable to demand that the kid be called their legal given name.
    Pearl clutching grannies, riiiggghhhttt. I have absolutely no issues with gender identity, gender fluidity, sexual orientation, etc... It is perfectly reasonable to expect a school to address a student by the name on the enrollment forms. Sure, if the student specifies a nickname to go by, then by all means. Many of us did that. But it is unreasonable to demand that they be called something different whenever they decide, regardless of gender identity.  And their records will always be under their legal name. Their graduation certificate will be under their legal name. Their driver's license will be under their legal name. Their social security number will be under their legal name. So if the legal name is an issue, that will have to be addressed by the kid at some point. That isn't pearl clutching granny talk, that is just reality.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845
    mickeyrat said:
    oftenreading said:
    rgambs said:
    "It" sounds like a Facebook meme that your crazy aunt Linda shares while she laments about God being kicked out of schools.

    Sounds like there are quite a few pearl-clutching old grannies in here, and maybe one or two who'd like to go back to the good ol' days when gay, trans and otherwise gender-fluid kids were bullied mercilessly and killed themselves in high numbers, but by god they got called by their legal names.

    I think it's perfectly reasonable to have an empathetic and experienced person sit down with this kid and say "You have to chose a name that we can call you each day." I think it's unreasonable to demand that the kid be called their legal given name.
    they had to register with something, as far as I remember it was your birth cetificate. from that registration comes the initial attendence lists. from there the teacher would be asking the question as to what the student prefers to be called, i.e. nickname, etc. Thats usually only asked once.

    I am interested to know how the parents are accommodating their child. it begins there.

    All else fails the teacher can simply say "hey you....."

    otherwise, the student can be homeschooled......


    its ironic you bring up the "good old days" about  bullying and the like and in the same breath call some here "pearl clutching old grannies"
    :lol:

    Yeah, I'm sure the crowd in here is just as vulnerable as some 16 or 17 year old trans kid trying to navigate high school :weary:

    And honestly, I hope the parents are supporting their kid. Not all do, though. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,583
    oftenreading said:
    mickeyrat said:
    oftenreading said:
    rgambs said:
    "It" sounds like a Facebook meme that your crazy aunt Linda shares while she laments about God being kicked out of schools.

    Sounds like there are quite a few pearl-clutching old grannies in here, and maybe one or two who'd like to go back to the good ol' days when gay, trans and otherwise gender-fluid kids were bullied mercilessly and killed themselves in high numbers, but by god they got called by their legal names.

    I think it's perfectly reasonable to have an empathetic and experienced person sit down with this kid and say "You have to chose a name that we can call you each day." I think it's unreasonable to demand that the kid be called their legal given name.
    they had to register with something, as far as I remember it was your birth cetificate. from that registration comes the initial attendence lists. from there the teacher would be asking the question as to what the student prefers to be called, i.e. nickname, etc. Thats usually only asked once.

    I am interested to know how the parents are accommodating their child. it begins there.

    All else fails the teacher can simply say "hey you....."

    otherwise, the student can be homeschooled......


    its ironic you bring up the "good old days" about  bullying and the like and in the same breath call some here "pearl clutching old grannies"
    :lol:

    Yeah, I'm sure the crowd in here is just as vulnerable as some 16 or 17 year old trans kid trying to navigate high school :weary:

    And honestly, I hope the parents are supporting their kid. Not all do, though. 
    oh, so vulnerability is the main criteria as to whether words or actions are bullying?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,950
    oftenreading said:
    rgambs said:
    "It" sounds like a Facebook meme that your crazy aunt Linda shares while she laments about God being kicked out of schools.

    Sounds like there are quite a few pearl-clutching old grannies in here, and maybe one or two who'd like to go back to the good ol' days when gay, trans and otherwise gender-fluid kids were bullied mercilessly and killed themselves in high numbers, but by god they got called by their legal names.

    I think it's perfectly reasonable to have an empathetic and experienced person sit down with this kid and say "You have to chose a name that we can call you each day." I think it's unreasonable to demand that the kid be called their legal given name.
    I haven’t seen anyone suggest this person must be called by their legal given name. What has been suggested is that this person choose ONE name, whatever it may be, rather than making life difficult for everyone and demanding to be called the name of their choice on a daily basis.  I think you’ve misinterpreted a lot of what has been discussed unless you’re referring to different threads. 
  • bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,950
    If anyone is getting bullied here it’s the school. The kid is making unreasonable demands if you ask me. I empathize for the kid, but c’mon. 
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    I don't think it's unreasonable to make the kid pick a form of address, I just don't think it's a true story.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    Easy to believe a teenager would make such demands, pretty far-fetched to believe the school is acquiescing to the demand.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • stuckinlinestuckinline Posts: 3,367
    edited August 2019
    bbiggs said:
    My friend sent me the following text today:

    “My daughter has her first day of teaching High School tomorrow.  She teaches AP History at a local high school. She is in meetings today with other teachers and she was informed she has a Senior student who is not a boy or a girl and only answers to different nouns that “it” chooses on a daily basis.  “It” refuses to respond when called by its name.”

    Gender neutrality topic aside, I find this troubling that a HS Administration must succumb to the pressure of a student who demands to be called something different on a daily basis. 
    The 'demand' to be called something different on a daily basis is unreasonable. Teachers and Schools Admins don't get paid enough to put up with this.
    It would be interesting to see how this High School Senior student would respond to the police, judge, boss, or 'real world' authority figure.
    Good luck to your friend's daughter!
  • bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,950
    rgambs said:
    I don't think it's unreasonable to make the kid pick a form of address, I just don't think it's a true story.
    I understand your skepticism, but it is true. That’s all I can say.  I really am not surprised for a school to cave to a kid in this situation. What school wants to be front page news about not accommodating a student with gender identity “needs?”  I say “needs” because I’m sure the story would be twisted that way and that is likely what the school fears.  Demanding to be called by different nouns is not a need for anyone, of course. 
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