Gender neutral student demands

mcgruff10

mickeyrat said:

oftenreading said:

rgambs said:

"It" sounds like a Facebook meme that your crazy aunt Linda shares while she laments about God being kicked out of schools.

Sounds like there are quite a few pearl-clutching old grannies in here, and maybe one or two who'd like to go back to the good ol' days when gay, trans and otherwise gender-fluid kids were bullied mercilessly and killed themselves in high numbers, but by god they got called by their legal names.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to have an empathetic and experienced person sit down with this kid and say "You have to chose a name that we can call you each day." I think it's unreasonable to demand that the kid be called their legal given name.

they had to register with something, as far as I remember it was your birth cetificate. from that registration comes the initial attendence lists. from there the teacher would be asking the question as to what the student prefers to be cslled, i.e. nickname, etc. Thats usually only asked once.

I am interested to know how the parents are accommodating their child. it begins there.

All else fails the teacher can simpmy say "hey you....."

otherwise, the student can be homeschooled......

The other middle school is our district had a big in service at the end of the school year about this topic. I m guessing mine will be in two weeks. I ll report back with details. 

jeffbr

oftenreading said:

rgambs said:

"It" sounds like a Facebook meme that your crazy aunt Linda shares while she laments about God being kicked out of schools.

Sounds like there are quite a few pearl-clutching old grannies in here, and maybe one or two who'd like to go back to the good ol' days when gay, trans and otherwise gender-fluid kids were bullied mercilessly and killed themselves in high numbers, but by god they got called by their legal names.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to have an empathetic and experienced person sit down with this kid and say "You have to chose a name that we can call you each day." I think it's unreasonable to demand that the kid be called their legal given name.

Pearl clutching grannies, riiiggghhhttt. I have absolutely no issues with gender identity, gender fluidity, sexual orientation, etc... It is perfectly reasonable to expect a school to address a student by the name on the enrollment forms. Sure, if the student specifies a nickname to go by, then by all means. Many of us did that. But it is unreasonable to demand that they be called something different whenever they decide, regardless of gender identity.  And their records will always be under their legal name. Their graduation certificate will be under their legal name. Their driver's license will be under their legal name. Their social security number will be under their legal name. So if the legal name is an issue, that will have to be addressed by the kid at some point. That isn't pearl clutching granny talk, that is just reality.

oftenreading

mickeyrat said:

oftenreading said:

rgambs said:

"It" sounds like a Facebook meme that your crazy aunt Linda shares while she laments about God being kicked out of schools.

Sounds like there are quite a few pearl-clutching old grannies in here, and maybe one or two who'd like to go back to the good ol' days when gay, trans and otherwise gender-fluid kids were bullied mercilessly and killed themselves in high numbers, but by god they got called by their legal names.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to have an empathetic and experienced person sit down with this kid and say "You have to chose a name that we can call you each day." I think it's unreasonable to demand that the kid be called their legal given name.

they had to register with something, as far as I remember it was your birth cetificate. from that registration comes the initial attendence lists. from there the teacher would be asking the question as to what the student prefers to be called, i.e. nickname, etc. Thats usually only asked once.

I am interested to know how the parents are accommodating their child. it begins there.

All else fails the teacher can simply say "hey you....."

otherwise, the student can be homeschooled......

its ironic you bring up the "good old days" about  bullying and the like and in the same breath call some here "pearl clutching old grannies"

Yeah, I'm sure the crowd in here is just as vulnerable as some 16 or 17 year old trans kid trying to navigate high school

And honestly, I hope the parents are supporting their kid. Not all do, though. 

mickeyrat

oftenreading said:

mickeyrat said:

oftenreading said:

rgambs said:

"It" sounds like a Facebook meme that your crazy aunt Linda shares while she laments about God being kicked out of schools.

Sounds like there are quite a few pearl-clutching old grannies in here, and maybe one or two who'd like to go back to the good ol' days when gay, trans and otherwise gender-fluid kids were bullied mercilessly and killed themselves in high numbers, but by god they got called by their legal names.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to have an empathetic and experienced person sit down with this kid and say "You have to chose a name that we can call you each day." I think it's unreasonable to demand that the kid be called their legal given name.

they had to register with something, as far as I remember it was your birth cetificate. from that registration comes the initial attendence lists. from there the teacher would be asking the question as to what the student prefers to be called, i.e. nickname, etc. Thats usually only asked once.

I am interested to know how the parents are accommodating their child. it begins there.

All else fails the teacher can simply say "hey you....."

otherwise, the student can be homeschooled......

its ironic you bring up the "good old days" about  bullying and the like and in the same breath call some here "pearl clutching old grannies"

Yeah, I'm sure the crowd in here is just as vulnerable as some 16 or 17 year old trans kid trying to navigate high school

And honestly, I hope the parents are supporting their kid. Not all do, though. 

oh, so vulnerability is the main criteria as to whether words or actions are bullying?

bbiggs

oftenreading said:

rgambs said:

"It" sounds like a Facebook meme that your crazy aunt Linda shares while she laments about God being kicked out of schools.

Sounds like there are quite a few pearl-clutching old grannies in here, and maybe one or two who'd like to go back to the good ol' days when gay, trans and otherwise gender-fluid kids were bullied mercilessly and killed themselves in high numbers, but by god they got called by their legal names.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to have an empathetic and experienced person sit down with this kid and say "You have to chose a name that we can call you each day." I think it's unreasonable to demand that the kid be called their legal given name.

I haven’t seen anyone suggest this person must be called by their legal given name. What has been suggested is that this person choose ONE name, whatever it may be, rather than making life difficult for everyone and demanding to be called the name of their choice on a daily basis.  I think you’ve misinterpreted a lot of what has been discussed unless you’re referring to different threads. 

bbiggs

If anyone is getting bullied here it’s the school. The kid is making unreasonable demands if you ask me. I empathize for the kid, but c’mon. 

rgambs

I don't think it's unreasonable to make the kid pick a form of address, I just don't think it's a true story.

rgambs

Easy to believe a teenager would make such demands, pretty far-fetched to believe the school is acquiescing to the demand.

stuckinline

bbiggs said:

My friend sent me the following text today:

“My daughter has her first day of teaching High School tomorrow.  She teaches AP History at a local high school. She is in meetings today with other teachers and she was informed she has a Senior student who is not a boy or a girl and only answers to different nouns that “it” chooses on a daily basis.  “It” refuses to respond when called by its name.”

Gender neutrality topic aside, I find this troubling that a HS Administration must succumb to the pressure of a student who demands to be called something different on a daily basis. 

The 'demand' to be called something different on a daily basis is unreasonable. Teachers and Schools Admins don't get paid enough to put up with this.
It would be interesting to see how this High School Senior student would respond to the police, judge, boss, or 'real world' authority figure.
Good luck to your friend's daughter!

bbiggs

rgambs said:

I don't think it's unreasonable to make the kid pick a form of address, I just don't think it's a true story.

I understand your skepticism, but it is true. That’s all I can say.  I really am not surprised for a school to cave to a kid in this situation. What school wants to be front page news about not accommodating a student with gender identity “needs?”  I say “needs” because I’m sure the story would be twisted that way and that is likely what the school fears.  Demanding to be called by different nouns is not a need for anyone, of course. 

pearljammr78

Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don’t. 

pearljammr78

While I feel sorry for anyone who doesn’t fit in at their school for ANY reason, the bullshit of being able to choose everyday a different name to be called is a joke. That sounds more like an attention problem. The fact nobody in that school has the balls to call bullshit shows how pathetic everything has gotten. Be gay, straight, Bi, trans or whatever you want. Just respect yourself and those around you by not making it all about you. Ridiculous 

mrussel1

pearljammr78 said:

While I feel sorry for anyone who doesn’t fit in at their school for ANY reason, the bullshit of being able to choose everyday a different name to be called is a joke. That sounds more like an attention problem. The fact nobody in that school has the balls to call bullshit shows how pathetic everything has gotten. Be gay, straight, Bi, trans or whatever you want. Just respect yourself and those around you by not making it all about you. Ridiculous 

Yep,  agree on these points. I empathize with the administration,  considering the Twitter mob and the propensity for convenient edits on stories and videos.  It's a sad state of affairs all around. 

brianlux

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

I have to assume this person is an intersex person (previously referred to as a "hermaphrodite").  As with being gay, that's not a choice.  But what do you call a person who is both?  "It" seems degrading.  So what then?

What I don't get is the kid refusing to answer to a name.  Why not?  Is Mary too female, Bart too male?  Give yourself a nickname and be Marty.  Or what ever.   Why would the kid make things matter by not using some kind of name? And why a different noun everyday? 

If I were that teacher, I would would tell the kid, "Pick one word, that's all you get.  I'm not going to call you or anybody else by a different name or word everyday.  Either be reasonable or get out of my class."

The typical non-specific pronoun these days is "they", Brian. It takes a bit of getting used to for those of us who prefer to keep our singular and plural pronouns separate, but less bothersome than most of the alternatives, and at least is not degrading, as you point out. 

Typical yes, but grammatically incorrect.  They is plural.  Rather than compromise the grammar, perhaps a new word, or a slightly new definition to one that exists would be appropriate.  Other wise, you create confusion. 

"They decided to have a new name everyday."

"Oh my God, no.  The whole class?"

brianlux

oftenreading said:

rgambs said:

"It" sounds like a Facebook meme that your crazy aunt Linda shares while she laments about God being kicked out of schools.

Sounds like there are quite a few pearl-clutching old grannies in here, and maybe one or two who'd like to go back to the good ol' days when gay, trans and otherwise gender-fluid kids were bullied mercilessly and killed themselves in high numbers, but by god they got called by their legal names.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to have an empathetic and experienced person sit down with this kid and say "You have to chose a name that we can call you each day." I think it's unreasonable to demand that the kid be called their legal given name.

"pearl-clutching old grannies"  LOL, well, OK, that made me laugh. 

No frikken way do I want to go back to the old days when gays were bullied, beaten, even jail.  I don't think anyone here wants that. 

Change his/her name?  Sure, no problem!  Daniel Shellabarger, one of my favorite gay people did.  He now goes by Daniel Suelo. 

mrussel1

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

rgambs said:

"It" sounds like a Facebook meme that your crazy aunt Linda shares while she laments about God being kicked out of schools.

Sounds like there are quite a few pearl-clutching old grannies in here, and maybe one or two who'd like to go back to the good ol' days when gay, trans and otherwise gender-fluid kids were bullied mercilessly and killed themselves in high numbers, but by god they got called by their legal names.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to have an empathetic and experienced person sit down with this kid and say "You have to chose a name that we can call you each day." I think it's unreasonable to demand that the kid be called their legal given name.

"pearl-clutching old grannies"  LOL, well, OK, that made me laugh. 

No frikken way do I want to go back to the old days when gays were bullied, beaten, even jail.  I don't think anyone here wants that. 

Change his/her name?  Sure, no problem!  Daniel Shellabarger, one of my favorite gay people did.  He now goes by Daniel Suelo. 

Ha!

brianlux

Thoughts_Arrive

Smellyman

rgambs said:

I don't doubt the veracity of the poster, but I highly doubt the veracity of the story as relayed.

2nd hand anecdotal stories don't merit much discussion imo

mickeyrat

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

I have to assume this person is an intersex person (previously referred to as a "hermaphrodite").  As with being gay, that's not a choice.  But what do you call a person who is both?  "It" seems degrading.  So what then?

What I don't get is the kid refusing to answer to a name.  Why not?  Is Mary too female, Bart too male?  Give yourself a nickname and be Marty.  Or what ever.   Why would the kid make things matter by not using some kind of name? And why a different noun everyday? 

If I were that teacher, I would would tell the kid, "Pick one word, that's all you get.  I'm not going to call you or anybody else by a different name or word everyday.  Either be reasonable or get out of my class."

The typical non-specific pronoun these days is "they", Brian. It takes a bit of getting used to for those of us who prefer to keep our singular and plural pronouns separate, but less bothersome than most of the alternatives, and at least is not degrading, as you point out. 

Typical yes, but grammatically incorrect.  They is plural.  Rather than compromise the grammar, perhaps a new word, or a slightly new definition to one that exists would be appropriate.  Other wise, you create confusion. 

"They decided to have a new name everyday."

"Oh my God, no.  The whole class?"

yet

 , they seems standard within that community...