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Where would you rather live the US or Sweden

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  • Options
    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,720
    U.S.A.
    pjhawks said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJPOWER said:
    I guess it is okay to rape people in Sweden?

    ** Sweden has the HIGHEST per capita number of reported rapes in Europe.

    ** This number of rapes has quadrupled in the last 20 years.

    ** The conviction rates? They have steadily DECREASED.

    https://www.greennet.org.uk/network/news/sweden-has-worst-rape-conviction-record-europe

    Maybe it is because of the smelly undateable Swedish men getting frustrated?  Too many “incels”?   Get a handle on your rapists Sweden!  Maybe the women there should be allowed to carry firearms to protect themselves?

    there are some things we need to take into consideration.

    • Differences in reported crime across countries are usually related to different reporting rates by victims (and/or detection by the police). Also different definitions of criminal offences by countries, and different counting rules, make comparisons difficult according to Enrico Bisogno, the chief of data development and dissemination at the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crime (UNODC).

    • ”When a woman comes to the police and says ’my husband or my fiance raped me almost every day during the last year’, the police have to record each of these events, which might be more than 300 events. In many other countries it would just be one record – one victim, one type of crime, one record”, Klara Selin, a sociologist at the National Council for Crime Prevention in Stockholm, told BBC.

    • In 2005, Sweden broadened its definition of rape. The word ”rape” can since then be used to record acts which would be called assault or bodily harm in other countries, according to The Local. That led to an increase in the number of rapes reported in the country in the years following the law change.

    • In Sweden, women are encouraged to report rape cases. It appears, The Independent writes, that ”it is possible that in other countries there is a far stronger stigma around reporting rape than in Sweden”



    • Where do you think a woman feel the most secure to report a rape? In secular Sweden who has had an active fight for equality and women's rights? Or over-religious US with wild-wild-west-judges and historically backwards views on equality?

      The Brock Turner case as an example (incident stopped by Swedish students I might add) and:


      Judge Ralph Strother accepted a plea deal from Jacob Walter Anderson Monday over a 2016 rape allegation in which the victim says she was gagged, choked, led behind a tent and repeatedly raped. Strother sentenced Anderson to deferred probation after his no contest plea, even after hearing a harrowing statement from the woman about how Anderson ‘stole my body, virginity and power over my body.’ She was attacked while studying at Baylor University in Waco, Texas.

      /.../

      Last year, Strother sentenced another man to deferred probation even after he admitted raping another Baylor student in 2013. The judge also ordered the man to pay for his victim’s counseling. And earlier this year, Strother sentenced a third man for felony probation for the sexual assault of another woman who attended Baylor University. That saw him ordered to serve 30 days in jail, but the sex attacker was allowed to complete his sentence over a number of weekends.


    Your country still allows 12 years old, and 16 years old as @mcgruff10 pointed out to marry.







    Sounds like you are just defending rapists...?
    Funny how it is black and white when it comes to any issue with America, but take into consideration other factors when it has to do with Sweden...Why is that?  Try not to dance or rape anyone on the way to work today...Well, rape is okay in Sweden, so just try not to dance.
    latest update on A$AP Rocky case.  so guy who threw 1st punch is not being charged nor was detained at all. yet A$AP is still detained.  still seems like a bullshit case.

    https://www.tmz.com/2019/07/22/asap-rocky-attacker-not-charged-assault-sweden/


    Here is the reason for those charges being dropped. Consider it bullshit if you want. Sweden is still a safer country than the US, have less corruption and a safer judicial system. So don't fear visiting next time PJ comes here. Even though @mrussel1 believes Eddie will "take note" and could very well stop PJ from coming here. I seriously doubt that. Lets see who will be correct.

    ***

    In the case with an American artist who has been arrested suspected of assault since July 5, a counter-notification was also made against a plaintiff in the case. The preliminary investigation has been going on in parallel where the plaintiff was suspected of being abused, assaulting and attempted assault. Now the preliminary investigation is closed and the plaintiff is no longer suspected in the case.

    - The event begins with the counter notification repeatedly asking the person to remove himself from the site. When he does not, the countermember first pushes away, and then takes a grip around the other's throat and lifts him a few meters. Because of this, the person throws his headphones on the countermember and tries to throw punches, which is to be considered to be in his right of self defence, says pre-investigator chief prosecutor Daniel Suneson.



    So A$AP Rocky is not the 'countermember', correct?  Surely he did not lift someone a few meters from the ground.  What did ASAP actually do in the fight?
  • Options
    Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,753
    mrussel1 said:
    cutz said:
    Can one really answer the question without living in the Country for an extended period of time?

    That's a big negative, ghost rider.  
    Yeah that's why the poll option of this thread was kind of dumb (and why I didn't vote in it). But as for the actual thread, hey, the Democratic Nominees thread had turned into Sweden talk central for whatever reason, so it made sense to break this off into it's own thread. It's a stupid thread, sure.  But it's not hurting anyone. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • Options
    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,210
    edited July 2019
    Canada
    So go ahead tell me “ If you don’t like it here leave “ that’s the new American motto...
    Sweden is different.  If you don't like it there, they lock you up for 3 weeks without charging you with a crime and won't let you leave.
    Factually untrue. 

    If you come to the US border though there is a  risk you will be locked up in a cage, raped or die in the hands of ’murica
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Options
    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,210
    edited July 2019
    Canada
    mrussel1 said:
    pjhawks said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJPOWER said:
    I guess it is okay to rape people in Sweden?

    ** Sweden has the HIGHEST per capita number of reported rapes in Europe.

    ** This number of rapes has quadrupled in the last 20 years.

    ** The conviction rates? They have steadily DECREASED.

    https://www.greennet.org.uk/network/news/sweden-has-worst-rape-conviction-record-europe

    Maybe it is because of the smelly undateable Swedish men getting frustrated?  Too many “incels”?   Get a handle on your rapists Sweden!  Maybe the women there should be allowed to carry firearms to protect themselves?

    there are some things we need to take into consideration.

    • Differences in reported crime across countries are usually related to different reporting rates by victims (and/or detection by the police). Also different definitions of criminal offences by countries, and different counting rules, make comparisons difficult according to Enrico Bisogno, the chief of data development and dissemination at the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crime (UNODC).

    • ”When a woman comes to the police and says ’my husband or my fiance raped me almost every day during the last year’, the police have to record each of these events, which might be more than 300 events. In many other countries it would just be one record – one victim, one type of crime, one record”, Klara Selin, a sociologist at the National Council for Crime Prevention in Stockholm, told BBC.

    • In 2005, Sweden broadened its definition of rape. The word ”rape” can since then be used to record acts which would be called assault or bodily harm in other countries, according to The Local. That led to an increase in the number of rapes reported in the country in the years following the law change.

    • In Sweden, women are encouraged to report rape cases. It appears, The Independent writes, that ”it is possible that in other countries there is a far stronger stigma around reporting rape than in Sweden”



    • Where do you think a woman feel the most secure to report a rape? In secular Sweden who has had an active fight for equality and women's rights? Or over-religious US with wild-wild-west-judges and historically backwards views on equality?

      The Brock Turner case as an example (incident stopped by Swedish students I might add) and:


      Judge Ralph Strother accepted a plea deal from Jacob Walter Anderson Monday over a 2016 rape allegation in which the victim says she was gagged, choked, led behind a tent and repeatedly raped. Strother sentenced Anderson to deferred probation after his no contest plea, even after hearing a harrowing statement from the woman about how Anderson ‘stole my body, virginity and power over my body.’ She was attacked while studying at Baylor University in Waco, Texas.

      /.../

      Last year, Strother sentenced another man to deferred probation even after he admitted raping another Baylor student in 2013. The judge also ordered the man to pay for his victim’s counseling. And earlier this year, Strother sentenced a third man for felony probation for the sexual assault of another woman who attended Baylor University. That saw him ordered to serve 30 days in jail, but the sex attacker was allowed to complete his sentence over a number of weekends.


    Your country still allows 12 years old, and 16 years old as @mcgruff10 pointed out to marry.







    Sounds like you are just defending rapists...?
    Funny how it is black and white when it comes to any issue with America, but take into consideration other factors when it has to do with Sweden...Why is that?  Try not to dance or rape anyone on the way to work today...Well, rape is okay in Sweden, so just try not to dance.
    latest update on A$AP Rocky case.  so guy who threw 1st punch is not being charged nor was detained at all. yet A$AP is still detained.  still seems like a bullshit case.

    https://www.tmz.com/2019/07/22/asap-rocky-attacker-not-charged-assault-sweden/


    Here is the reason for those charges being dropped. Consider it bullshit if you want. Sweden is still a safer country than the US, have less corruption and a safer judicial system. So don't fear visiting next time PJ comes here. Even though @mrussel1 believes Eddie will "take note" and could very well stop PJ from coming here. I seriously doubt that. Lets see who will be correct.

    ***

    In the case with an American artist who has been arrested suspected of assault since July 5, a counter-notification was also made against a plaintiff in the case. The preliminary investigation has been going on in parallel where the plaintiff was suspected of being abused, assaulting and attempted assault. Now the preliminary investigation is closed and the plaintiff is no longer suspected in the case.

    - The event begins with the counter notification repeatedly asking the person to remove himself from the site. When he does not, the countermember first pushes away, and then takes a grip around the other's throat and lifts him a few meters. Because of this, the person throws his headphones on the countermember and tries to throw punches, which is to be considered to be in his right of self defence, says pre-investigator chief prosecutor Daniel Suneson.



    So A$AP Rocky is not the 'countermember', correct?  Surely he did not lift someone a few meters from the ground.  What did ASAP actually do in the fight?
    The counter-suit (?) came from ASAPs bodyguard. 

    The ”lifiting up by the throat” part is not - to my knowlege - shown in any known video so there might be more to this than Has been shown. 

    If not something earlier not on video than I would think it would be from ganging up in a ring around a man and beating him. That is assault and not self defence. One newspaper mentioned a broken bottle even being used - But dont know If that is varified. 
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Options
    PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    U.S.A.
    So go ahead tell me “ If you don’t like it here leave “ that’s the new American motto...
    Sweden is different.  If you don't like it there, they lock you up for 3 weeks without charging you with a crime and won't let you leave.
    Factually untrue. 

    If you come to the US border though there is a  risk you will be locked up in a cage, raped or die in the hands of ’murica
    We hire Swedes to do the cage raping, for those that were wondering.  We like experience on the resumes!
  • Options
    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,210
    Canada
    PJPOWER said:
    So go ahead tell me “ If you don’t like it here leave “ that’s the new American motto...
    Sweden is different.  If you don't like it there, they lock you up for 3 weeks without charging you with a crime and won't let you leave.
    Factually untrue. 

    If you come to the US border though there is a  risk you will be locked up in a cage, raped or die in the hands of ’murica
    We hire Swedes to do the cage raping, for those that were wondering.  We like experience on the resumes!
    Gross post. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Options
    PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    edited July 2019
    U.S.A.
    PJPOWER said:
    So go ahead tell me “ If you don’t like it here leave “ that’s the new American motto...
    Sweden is different.  If you don't like it there, they lock you up for 3 weeks without charging you with a crime and won't let you leave.
    Factually untrue. 

    If you come to the US border though there is a  risk you will be locked up in a cage, raped or die in the hands of ’murica
    We hire Swedes to do the cage raping, for those that were wondering.  We like experience on the resumes!
    Gross post. 
    It was a joke, but what IS gross is Sweden’s rape proliferation.
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • Options
    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,210
    Canada
    PJPOWER said:
    PJPOWER said:
    So go ahead tell me “ If you don’t like it here leave “ that’s the new American motto...
    Sweden is different.  If you don't like it there, they lock you up for 3 weeks without charging you with a crime and won't let you leave.
    Factually untrue. 

    If you come to the US border though there is a  risk you will be locked up in a cage, raped or die in the hands of ’murica
    We hire Swedes to do the cage raping, for those that were wondering.  We like experience on the resumes!
    Gross post. 
    What is gross is Sweden’s rape proliferation.
    I know you read my post earlier responding to this ”new thing” of yours - and with that, why continue on?

    just makes What You’re doing ignorant and gross. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Options
    PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    edited July 2019
    U.S.A.
    PJPOWER said:
    PJPOWER said:
    So go ahead tell me “ If you don’t like it here leave “ that’s the new American motto...
    Sweden is different.  If you don't like it there, they lock you up for 3 weeks without charging you with a crime and won't let you leave.
    Factually untrue. 

    If you come to the US border though there is a  risk you will be locked up in a cage, raped or die in the hands of ’murica
    We hire Swedes to do the cage raping, for those that were wondering.  We like experience on the resumes!
    Gross post. 
    What is gross is Sweden’s rape proliferation.
    I know you read my post earlier responding to this ”new thing” of yours - and with that, why continue on?

    just makes What You’re doing ignorant and gross. 
    Well, you think eating meat is gross, so I don’t really care. Why are you defending the Swedish rape culture?  Seems like something you would want to change for the tourism industry.  You stating “why continue on” is pure irony gold.
    #boycottsweden
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • Options
    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,720
    U.S.A.
    PJPOWER said:
    PJPOWER said:
    So go ahead tell me “ If you don’t like it here leave “ that’s the new American motto...
    Sweden is different.  If you don't like it there, they lock you up for 3 weeks without charging you with a crime and won't let you leave.
    Factually untrue. 

    If you come to the US border though there is a  risk you will be locked up in a cage, raped or die in the hands of ’murica
    We hire Swedes to do the cage raping, for those that were wondering.  We like experience on the resumes!
    Gross post. 
    What is gross is Sweden’s rape proliferation.
    I know you read my post earlier responding to this ”new thing” of yours - and with that, why continue on?

    just makes What You’re doing ignorant and gross. 
    I think we all need to look inward and try to make a difference in what's within our control.  I'll do my part with my vote and probably some help at the field offices too.  You should go get a sign, start a protest and get A$AP released ASAP.  I don't want EV giving you the finger from the show in Oslo.  


  • Options
    cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,136
    edited July 2019
    U.S.A.
    So go ahead tell me “ If you don’t like it here leave “ that’s the new American motto...
    Sweden is different.  If you don't like it there, they lock you up for 3 weeks without charging you with a crime and won't let you leave.
    Factually untrue. 

    If you come to the US border though there is a  risk you will be locked up in a cage, raped or die in the hands of ’murica
    If you go to Sweden you will be raped (high rates), locked up committing no crime and they will try to get you to conform but making you a giant douchebag.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Options
    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,720
    U.S.A.
    Ummm... post of the year.  
  • Options
    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,210
    edited July 2019
    Canada
    So go ahead tell me “ If you don’t like it here leave “ that’s the new American motto...
    Sweden is different.  If you don't like it there, they lock you up for 3 weeks without charging you with a crime and won't let you leave.
    Factually untrue. 

    If you come to the US border though there is a  risk you will be locked up in a cage, raped or die in the hands of ’murica
    If you go to Sweden you will be raped (high rates), locked up committing no crime and they will try to get you to conform but making you a giant douchebag.
    So you are saying beating someone up in group is not a crime. Nice to know. Rather go by the swedish definition of assault than yours. 

    Also, isnt being labeled a ”douchebag” by a rightwinger a badge Of honour?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Options
    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,720
    U.S.A.
    So go ahead tell me “ If you don’t like it here leave “ that’s the new American motto...
    Sweden is different.  If you don't like it there, they lock you up for 3 weeks without charging you with a crime and won't let you leave.
    Factually untrue. 

    If you come to the US border though there is a  risk you will be locked up in a cage, raped or die in the hands of ’murica
    If you go to Sweden you will be raped (high rates), locked up committing no crime and they will try to get you to conform but making you a giant douchebag.
    So you are saying beating someone up in group is not a crime. Nice to know. Rather go by the swedish definition of assault than yours. 

    Also, isnt being labeled a ”douchebag” by a rightwinger a badge Of honour?
    Cincy isn't a right winger.  
  • Options
    PJNBPJNB Posts: 12,955
    Wow this thread is something else. 
  • Options
    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,351
    Ok 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Options
    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,962
    U.S.A.
    PJNB said:
    Wow this thread is something else. 
    You have no clue bud. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Options
    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,210
    Canada
    PJNB said:
    Wow this thread is something else. 
    This is the most happening nightclub on the party street that is the Pearl Jam Forum.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Options
    cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,136
    U.S.A.
    So go ahead tell me “ If you don’t like it here leave “ that’s the new American motto...
    Sweden is different.  If you don't like it there, they lock you up for 3 weeks without charging you with a crime and won't let you leave.
    Factually untrue. 

    If you come to the US border though there is a  risk you will be locked up in a cage, raped or die in the hands of ’murica
    If you go to Sweden you will be raped (high rates), locked up committing no crime and they will try to get you to conform but making you a giant douchebag.
    So you are saying beating someone up in group is not a crime. Nice to know. Rather go by the swedish definition of assault than yours. 

    Also, isnt being labeled a ”douchebag” by a rightwinger a badge Of honour?
    I’m saying not being charged with a crime before being locked up for weeks is criminal in itself.

    Which rightwinger called you a douchebag? You should throw them in jail as you take 3 weeks to do what they do in 48-72 hours in a civilized society.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Options
    pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,243
    So go ahead tell me “ If you don’t like it here leave “ that’s the new American motto...
    Sweden is different.  If you don't like it there, they lock you up for 3 weeks without charging you with a crime and won't let you leave.
    Factually untrue. 

    If you come to the US border though there is a  risk you will be locked up in a cage, raped or die in the hands of ’murica
    If you go to Sweden you will be raped (high rates), locked up committing no crime and they will try to get you to conform but making you a giant douchebag.
    So you are saying beating someone up in group is not a crime. Nice to know. Rather go by the swedish definition of assault than yours. 

    Also, isnt being labeled a ”douchebag” by a rightwinger a badge Of honour?
    Self defense if attacked first but maybe Swedish law doesn’t take that into account? Fucked up if not
  • Options
    hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
    PJNB said:
    Wow this thread is something else. 
    This is the most happening nightclub on the party street that is the Pearl Jam Forum.
    It's not "happening".  Then again, I was never big on party types.
  • Options
    Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Canada
    once I found rocky was buds with Kanye...Sweden can have him and he is likely guilty...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Options
    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,962
    U.S.A.
    Enjoying my American made Tito s vodka tonight. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Options
    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,210
    edited July 2019
    Canada
    pjhawks said:
    So go ahead tell me “ If you don’t like it here leave “ that’s the new American motto...
    Sweden is different.  If you don't like it there, they lock you up for 3 weeks without charging you with a crime and won't let you leave.
    Factually untrue. 

    If you come to the US border though there is a  risk you will be locked up in a cage, raped or die in the hands of ’murica
    If you go to Sweden you will be raped (high rates), locked up committing no crime and they will try to get you to conform but making you a giant douchebag.
    So you are saying beating someone up in group is not a crime. Nice to know. Rather go by the swedish definition of assault than yours. 

    Also, isnt being labeled a ”douchebag” by a rightwinger a badge Of honour?
    Self defense if attacked first but maybe Swedish law doesn’t take that into account? Fucked up if not
    Being "attacked first" does not give you carte blanche to do whatever. 

    In the US, ASAP Rocky could have cut the guy up into pieces and put his head on a stick just because he was "attacked first"? Fucked up if true.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Options
    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,210
    Canada
    mcgruff10 said:
    Enjoying my American made Tito s vodka tonight. 
    What do you think of Absolut?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Options
    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,210
    edited July 2019
    Canada
    hedonist said:
    PJNB said:
    Wow this thread is something else. 
    This is the most happening nightclub on the party street that is the Pearl Jam Forum.
    It's not "happening".  Then again, I was never big on party types.
    I can tell. Because this is Studio 54 in the 70s when Paul and Gene and Ace and Peter hanged out their levels of happening. Dynasty-era happening.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Options
    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,962
    U.S.A.
    mcgruff10 said:
    Enjoying my American made Tito s vodka tonight. 
    What do you think of Absolut?
    I like it.  Is it popular in Sweden?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Options
    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,210
    Canada
    So go ahead tell me “ If you don’t like it here leave “ that’s the new American motto...
    Sweden is different.  If you don't like it there, they lock you up for 3 weeks without charging you with a crime and won't let you leave.
    Factually untrue. 

    If you come to the US border though there is a  risk you will be locked up in a cage, raped or die in the hands of ’murica
    If you go to Sweden you will be raped (high rates), locked up committing no crime and they will try to get you to conform but making you a giant douchebag.
    So you are saying beating someone up in group is not a crime. Nice to know. Rather go by the swedish definition of assault than yours. 

    Also, isnt being labeled a ”douchebag” by a rightwinger a badge Of honour?
    I’m saying not being charged with a crime before being locked up for weeks is criminal in itself.

    Which rightwinger called you a douchebag? You should throw them in jail as you take 3 weeks to do what they do in 48-72 hours in a civilized society.
    What is the different between "charged" and "indicted" ?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Options
    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,720
    U.S.A.
    mcgruff10 said:
    Enjoying my American made Tito s vodka tonight. 
    What do you think of Absolut?
    mid shelf Vodka, although the flavored goes okay with lemonade in the summer.  The best vodka is Chopin, followed by Belvedere.  Potato vodka, all the way. 
  • Options
    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,962
    U.S.A.
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Enjoying my American made Tito s vodka tonight. 
    What do you think of Absolut?
    mid shelf Vodka, although the flavored goes okay with lemonade in the summer.  The best vodka is Chopin, followed by Belvedere.  Potato vodka, all the way. 
    Never had Chopin, will have to try it. Belvedere is good but I prefer ketel.  The goose is a rip off. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
This discussion has been closed.