The Democratic Candidates

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  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,853
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    mrussel1 said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Jason P said:
    My biggest issue with Biden is that he is old as dirt (as is Trump).  He would be 78 if he takes office and could potentially be 86 when he leaves. My money (and more importantly the money of donors) is on Beto as VP pick, especially with Texas as a potential upset.  Super white dude ticket though. 
    I will vote for him (any reasonable non-Trump Embarrassment option) but this is it.  No frigging way we should be electing people just as likely to die during office from old age as not.
    78 is the average life expectancy of males in the US, per this report from last year.

    Even if you dispute this report, it is hardly a stretch to think that a person's mental capacity (and everything else) can quickly go into the bucket between the ages of 78-86....JB's potential service years as POTUS.

    I will still vote for him...but his VP pick should be someone who is not also a fossil...and someone who would do a good job running the country, since there is a decent chance they will be forced to if he wins and then goes tits-up while in office.


    Well I don't see him choosing Bernie as VP, were he the nominee, so you should be okay there.  
    not a chance. that would be the whitest ticket in modern times. 
    Jurassic ticket too.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    cincybearcat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Hi! said:
    Going to be interesting to see how hard the other candidates will go after him. 
    So this is very interesting.  A few have taken a jab, namely Warren and Sanders.  More to the point, as we've seen on reposts here, it's Bernie's political assassins that have been doing the dirty work.  They post out of context information.  Fortunately, they generally preach to the converted, but we shall see if it bleeds into the 'mainstream' media. 
    Hmmm I wonder who Bernie supporters remind me of.....
    There are some similarities at the 'bro' level. 
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,713
    edited April 2019
    Jason P said:
    My biggest issue with Biden is that he is old as dirt (as is Trump).  He would be 78 if he takes office and could potentially be 86 when he leaves. My money (and more importantly the money of donors) is on Beto as VP pick, especially with Texas as a potential upset.  Super white dude ticket though. 
    Well, not that I want Biden to win, but one of the most revered SCOTUS judges in the history of the country is 86 right now, and everyone seems to have complete faith in her mental faculties, and everyone who doesn't want the SCOTUS to go super right wing partisan is praying for her to stay healthy until Trump is out of office, so I have no issue with Biden's age, assuming his mind stays healthy. There is no reason to think it wouldn't. Many people stay super sharp throughout their senior years, and Biden seems to be perfectly fine in that context.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,427
    I just want whoever is against Trump to completely and utterly destroy him in the election. Only a complete and total drubbing of this asshat will help vanquish him to the dark recesses of Twitter and be the final assessment of public opinion about him. Anything more than 100 electoral votes is too much, and even that is still embarrassing for those states. He needs to be shown the door and then shot out of a cannon through it and back to his fucking gold throne of shit. Wake the fuck up 'Merica!
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,835
    PJ_Soul said:
    Jason P said:
    My biggest issue with Biden is that he is old as dirt (as is Trump).  He would be 78 if he takes office and could potentially be 86 when he leaves. My money (and more importantly the money of donors) is on Beto as VP pick, especially with Texas as a potential upset.  Super white dude ticket though. 
    Well, not that I want Biden to win, but one of the most revered SCOTUS judges in the history of the country is 86 right now, and everyone seems to have complete faith in her mental faculties, and everyone who doesn't want the SCOTUS to go super right wing partisan is praying for her to stay healthy until Trump is out of office, so I have no issue with Biden's age, assuming his mind stays healthy. There is no reason to think it wouldn't. Many people stay super sharp throughout their senior years, and Biden seems to be perfectly fine in that context.
    No reason to think?  The average American male is dead at 78.
    Good on RBG, but that could change in a week or a month...
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,505
    cincybearcat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Hi! said:
    Going to be interesting to see how hard the other candidates will go after him. 
    So this is very interesting.  A few have taken a jab, namely Warren and Sanders.  More to the point, as we've seen on reposts here, it's Bernie's political assassins that have been doing the dirty work.  They post out of context information.  Fortunately, they generally preach to the converted, but we shall see if it bleeds into the 'mainstream' media. 
    Hmmm I wonder who Bernie supporters remind me of.....

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,505
    PJ_Soul said:
    Jason P said:
    My biggest issue with Biden is that he is old as dirt (as is Trump).  He would be 78 if he takes office and could potentially be 86 when he leaves. My money (and more importantly the money of donors) is on Beto as VP pick, especially with Texas as a potential upset.  Super white dude ticket though. 
    Well, not that I want Biden to win, but one of the most revered SCOTUS judges in the history of the country is 86 right now, and everyone seems to have complete faith in her mental faculties, and everyone who doesn't want the SCOTUS to go super right wing partisan is praying for her to stay healthy until Trump is out of office, so I have no issue with Biden's age, assuming his mind stays healthy. There is no reason to think it wouldn't. Many people stay super sharp throughout their senior years, and Biden seems to be perfectly fine in that context.
    Being - from what is shown and said to the public - "perfectly fine" at 78 isn't the same as being it at even 80.

    I don't think age should keep someone out though, if they are the best choice. As long as you can trust him stepping down if something happens. Didn't they hide the fact Ronald Reagan suffered from alzheimer's instead of having him step down and the VP taking over? Isn't there a story about him grabbing a miniature White House model from a fish tank, holding it in his hand and saying "This house seems familiar in some way..."?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,713
    edited April 2019
    F Me In The Brain said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Jason P said:
    My biggest issue with Biden is that he is old as dirt (as is Trump).  He would be 78 if he takes office and could potentially be 86 when he leaves. My money (and more importantly the money of donors) is on Beto as VP pick, especially with Texas as a potential upset.  Super white dude ticket though. 
    Well, not that I want Biden to win, but one of the most revered SCOTUS judges in the history of the country is 86 right now, and everyone seems to have complete faith in her mental faculties, and everyone who doesn't want the SCOTUS to go super right wing partisan is praying for her to stay healthy until Trump is out of office, so I have no issue with Biden's age, assuming his mind stays healthy. There is no reason to think it wouldn't. Many people stay super sharp throughout their senior years, and Biden seems to be perfectly fine in that context.
    No reason to think?  The average American male is dead at 78.
    Good on RBG, but that could change in a week or a month...
    No reason to think that in terms of Biden specifically is what I meant. If he isn't slipping now, he probably never will, frankly. When seniors go soft in the head, it tends to start earlier than that. He is vibrant, energetic, and seems pretty damn sharp to me. I mean, a 50 or 60 or 70 year old could also have a stroke or heart attack and drop dead too. I personally think that is someone of any age is in good health and has all their mental faculties, it is really ageist and unfair to disqualify them until there is an actual reason to. Biden is only 4 years older than the current POTUS and clearly in better shape, and I don't even hear Trump haters complaining about him being too old for the job.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,505
    PJ_Soul said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Jason P said:
    My biggest issue with Biden is that he is old as dirt (as is Trump).  He would be 78 if he takes office and could potentially be 86 when he leaves. My money (and more importantly the money of donors) is on Beto as VP pick, especially with Texas as a potential upset.  Super white dude ticket though. 
    Well, not that I want Biden to win, but one of the most revered SCOTUS judges in the history of the country is 86 right now, and everyone seems to have complete faith in her mental faculties, and everyone who doesn't want the SCOTUS to go super right wing partisan is praying for her to stay healthy until Trump is out of office, so I have no issue with Biden's age, assuming his mind stays healthy. There is no reason to think it wouldn't. Many people stay super sharp throughout their senior years, and Biden seems to be perfectly fine in that context.
    No reason to think?  The average American male is dead at 78.
    Good on RBG, but that could change in a week or a month...
    No reason to think that in terms of Biden specifically is what I meant. If he isn't slipping now, he probably never will, frankly. When seniors go soft in the head, it tends to start earlier than that. He is vibrant, energetic, and seems pretty damn sharp to me. I mean, a 50 or 60 or 70 year old could also have a stroke or heart attack and drop dead too. I personally think that is someone of any age is in good health and has all their mental faculties, it is really ageist and unfair to disqualify them until there is an actual reason to. Biden is only 4 years older than the current POTUS and clearly in better shape, and I don't even hear Trump haters complaining about him being too old for the job.
    That's because Trump looks so young and vibrant.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,713
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Jason P said:
    My biggest issue with Biden is that he is old as dirt (as is Trump).  He would be 78 if he takes office and could potentially be 86 when he leaves. My money (and more importantly the money of donors) is on Beto as VP pick, especially with Texas as a potential upset.  Super white dude ticket though. 
    Well, not that I want Biden to win, but one of the most revered SCOTUS judges in the history of the country is 86 right now, and everyone seems to have complete faith in her mental faculties, and everyone who doesn't want the SCOTUS to go super right wing partisan is praying for her to stay healthy until Trump is out of office, so I have no issue with Biden's age, assuming his mind stays healthy. There is no reason to think it wouldn't. Many people stay super sharp throughout their senior years, and Biden seems to be perfectly fine in that context.
    No reason to think?  The average American male is dead at 78.
    Good on RBG, but that could change in a week or a month...
    No reason to think that in terms of Biden specifically is what I meant. If he isn't slipping now, he probably never will, frankly. When seniors go soft in the head, it tends to start earlier than that. He is vibrant, energetic, and seems pretty damn sharp to me. I mean, a 50 or 60 or 70 year old could also have a stroke or heart attack and drop dead too. I personally think that is someone of any age is in good health and has all their mental faculties, it is really ageist and unfair to disqualify them until there is an actual reason to. Biden is only 4 years older than the current POTUS and clearly in better shape, and I don't even hear Trump haters complaining about him being too old for the job.
    That's because Trump looks so young and vibrant.
    He's the youngest, lol.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,713
    edited April 2019

    Why Biden is leading — and why that lead should be taken with a grain of salt

    If "no preference" were a candidate, it would be winning the nomination contest by a mile.


    Over the last month, following his formal entry into the Democratic presidential primary contest, former vice president Joe Biden surged more than 10 points in polling conducted by CNN and its partner SSRS. His lead in this poll is now twice that of the second-most popular candidate, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), whose numbers dropped slightly. Biden’s support, in fact, is now larger than that of the next four candidates combined.


    (Philip Bump/The Washington Post)

    Why? In part because he draws relatively uncontested support from more moderate Democrats while other leading Democrats — including Sanders, Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) and South Bend Mayor Pete Buttigieg — are competing more among liberal Democrats. Among liberals, too, though, Biden has a lead.


    (Philip Bump/The Washington Post)

    He has much bigger leads among nonwhite Democrats (and Democratic-leaning independents) and among those without a college degree than with whites and the college-educated — groups that make up more of Buttigieg’s base of support.

    There’s an inherent advantage in being a more moderate Democrat, particularly in a field saturated with more liberal ones. CNN asked respondents what qualities were most important in deciding whom to support in the primary, and there was significantly more support for a candidate willing to cross the aisle than one who held more progressive positions.


    (Philip Bump/The Washington Post)

    But, look: It’s early. It’s a trite observation and one with which you’re familiar. But it’s true, and things change. At this point in 2007, Rudolph W. Giuliani was up 12 points in the Republican primary contest. Hillary Clinton was up nine points.

    Why didn’t they win their parties’ nominations in 2008? Because people’s opinions shifted. We can see how uncertain the current situation is by looking at the results of a Post-ABC News poll published over the weekend.

    Among those with an opinion in the 2020 race, Biden led in our poll, with Sanders and Buttigieg trailing.


    (Philip Bump/The Washington Post)

    Our poll, though, allowed people to offer whatever response they wanted (which is why Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton got support). We also allowed people to say they had not yet identified a candidate to support.

    If “no preference” were a candidate, it would be winning the nomination contest by a mile.


    (Philip Bump/The Washington Post)

    CNN’s poll asked a related question: How likely were respondents to change their minds? About two-thirds said they might do so.


    (Philip Bump/The Washington Post)

    Of those who said they would not change their minds, about half were committed to Biden. A fifth were committed to Sanders, and about 1 in 10 were committed to Warren.


    (Philip Bump/The Washington Post)

    If Biden does hold on to about a fifth of the Democratic electorate over the long term, that’s probably good news for his nomination effort. In a field nearing two dozen candidates, locking up one-fifth of all the votes pretty much guarantees winning or contending in most early primary contests. It’s the Trump 2016 path: Build a core of support and use it to wait out most opponents.

    But as HuffPost’s Ariel Edwards-Levy pointed out on Monday, people’s certainty should be taken with a grain of salt. In May 2015, a Fox News poll found that 6 in 10 Republicans said they would never vote for Donald Trump in the party’s primaries in 2016. It didn’t turn out that way. But in May 2015, Trump wasn’t even a candidate yet.

    Again: Things can change.




    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • njnancy
    njnancy Posts: 5,096
    mrussel1 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Hi! said:
    Going to be interesting to see how hard the other candidates will go after him. 
    So this is very interesting.  A few have taken a jab, namely Warren and Sanders.  More to the point, as we've seen on reposts here, it's Bernie's political assassins that have been doing the dirty work.  They post out of context information.  Fortunately, they generally preach to the converted, but we shall see if it bleeds into the 'mainstream' media. 
    Hmmm I wonder who Bernie supporters remind me of.....
    There are some similarities at the 'bro' level. 
    So Bernie and Warren have already broken the 'Indivisible Pledge' . Bernie was the first to sign, probably because of short memories of his 2016 attitude in the primaries.  Bernie and his fans can't help demonizing anyone who isn't Bernie. Warren has a stellar policy knowledge base and is extremely engaging, but as part ot the progressive (not liberal) movement, if you do not believe in progressive policies and how they should be implemented and the quickness in which they should occur, then you are wrong and bad and need to be called out. It is much  like the Far Right wing of the Repub party. They are absolutists and loud and condescending.

    Dems are a big tent party and though the far left progressives may have some good ideas, they need to listen to people who do not have the same view as they do.  Passion is great; dismissal of other ideas is not. Just because you are the loudest faction of the party doesn't mean that you don't need to work with Liberals, Moderates and Conservatives. They are just as important and are suited to the areas they represent. Healthcare is foremost in most Americans minds. A consensus can be made with this within the party that can be a winner with the country. Unless Dems are going to be trashing each other, doing Trump's work for him.


    If you want to be President, then getting rid of Trump is THE most beneficial change needed for the good of the country. Without that happening, none of your policies mean a damn thing. Trump is the enemy, not your fellow Democratic candidates. So get your shit together Dems. I'm talking to you progressives, stop with the damn purity tests. 

    https://pledge.indivisible.org/

    Three seemingly easy promises. 





  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    Stop with the damn purity tests is right... 
    and don't judge people today on what they voted for 35 years ago.  Listen to what they are saying today.  Neither Biden or Sanders has ever given us a reason to think they are liars.  
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,713
    Agree with both of your posts!
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,835
    edited April 2019
    PJ_Soul said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Jason P said:
    My biggest issue with Biden is that he is old as dirt (as is Trump).  He would be 78 if he takes office and could potentially be 86 when he leaves. My money (and more importantly the money of donors) is on Beto as VP pick, especially with Texas as a potential upset.  Super white dude ticket though. 
    Well, not that I want Biden to win, but one of the most revered SCOTUS judges in the history of the country is 86 right now, and everyone seems to have complete faith in her mental faculties, and everyone who doesn't want the SCOTUS to go super right wing partisan is praying for her to stay healthy until Trump is out of office, so I have no issue with Biden's age, assuming his mind stays healthy. There is no reason to think it wouldn't. Many people stay super sharp throughout their senior years, and Biden seems to be perfectly fine in that context.
    No reason to think?  The average American male is dead at 78.
    Good on RBG, but that could change in a week or a month...
    No reason to think that in terms of Biden specifically is what I meant. If he isn't slipping now, he probably never will, frankly. When seniors go soft in the head, it tends to start earlier than that. He is vibrant, energetic, and seems pretty damn sharp to me. I mean, a 50 or 60 or 70 year old could also have a stroke or heart attack and drop dead too. I personally think that is someone of any age is in good health and has all their mental faculties, it is really ageist and unfair to disqualify them until there is an actual reason to. Biden is only 4 years older than the current POTUS and clearly in better shape, and I don't even hear Trump haters complaining about him being too old for the job.

    "If he isn't slipping now, he probably never will, frankly."
    What is that based on?  Haven't you ever known anyone who was as sharp as a tack...until they weren't?

    "I mean, a 50 or 60 or 70 year old could also have a stroke or heart attack and drop dead too."
    Of course but I am willing to bet the numbers overwhelmingly support people getting sick in such a way at 75+ than 50, 60, or even 70-75.
    (Not willing to do the legwork on a common sense conclusion -- but if we bet on it, I would spend the time researching.  :lol: )   

    "I personally think that is someone of any age is in good health and has all their mental faculties, it is really ageist and unfair to disqualify them until there is an actual reason to"
    I know you are coming from the right place in stating this....but do you really mean it?
    If someone was 90, it would be ageist and unfair to disqualify them?  At some point we need to park the political correctly bus and be honest enough to take things to logical conclusions.  I get that we do not officially dq them...but who in the heck would vote for them? 
    If the average age of death for a man in the USA is 78, then it certainly if fair to have it be a consideration when looking at a 4 year commitment to the most high profile, and one of the most demanding, jobs in the country. 

    "Biden is only 4 years older than the current POTUS and clearly in better shape, and I don't even hear Trump haters complaining about him being too old for the job."
    Let me help you there.  Donny is too old for the job.  :lol:         

    All of this stated, I will still vote for Old Joe if he is the option to defeat Daffy Donny.

    (I am guessing Trump will not refer to JB as 'Old Joe' since he is 72.
    Post edited by F Me In The Brain on
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,713
    I'm not being politically correct. I just think that there ARE old people who are absolutely cut out for that job. I'm not saying all are, but I hate to think that someone who could do a GREAT job might be overlooked, to the detriment of all, just because people are ageist.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,835
    PJ_Soul said:
    I'm not being politically correct. I just think that there ARE old people who are absolutely cut out for that job. I'm not saying all are, but I hate to think that someone who could do a GREAT job might be overlooked, to the detriment of all, just because people are ageist.
    If saying that I am concerned about an inbound POTUS being the same age as a guy usually dying at IS ageist, than I can own that.

    And, I will still vote for him.  (Just wish they would pick a young grandparent and not an old one)
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,573
    F Me In The Brain said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I'm not being politically correct. I just think that there ARE old people who are absolutely cut out for that job. I'm not saying all are, but I hate to think that someone who could do a GREAT job might be overlooked, to the detriment of all, just because people are ageist.
    If saying that I am concerned about an inbound POTUS being the same age as a guy usually dying at IS ageist, than I can own that.

    And, I will still vote for him.  (Just wish they would pick a young grandparent and not an old one)
    that's not being ageist, that's going with factual statistics. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,713
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    F Me In The Brain said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I'm not being politically correct. I just think that there ARE old people who are absolutely cut out for that job. I'm not saying all are, but I hate to think that someone who could do a GREAT job might be overlooked, to the detriment of all, just because people are ageist.
    If saying that I am concerned about an inbound POTUS being the same age as a guy usually dying at IS ageist, than I can own that.

    And, I will still vote for him.  (Just wish they would pick a young grandparent and not an old one)
    that's not being ageist, that's going with factual statistics. 
    Well, ageism is prejudice or discrimination on the grounds of a person's age.....
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,713
    F Me In The Brain said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I'm not being politically correct. I just think that there ARE old people who are absolutely cut out for that job. I'm not saying all are, but I hate to think that someone who could do a GREAT job might be overlooked, to the detriment of all, just because people are ageist.
    If saying that I am concerned about an inbound POTUS being the same age as a guy usually dying at IS ageist, than I can own that.

    And, I will still vote for him.  (Just wish they would pick a young grandparent and not an old one)
    Well hey, I'm team Warren, and she's a young and vibrant 69, lol.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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