The Democratic Candidates

14445474950194

Comments

  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,675
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Mayor Pete on free college...

    Americans who have a college degree earn more than Americans who don’t. As a progressive, I have a hard time getting my head around the idea of a majority who earn less because they didn’t go to college subsidizing a minority who earn more because they did.

    I might be all in on this guy...
    I kind of see his point but then how do we make it more affordable for people to go to college so more people can be better off?  

    You see, other than receiving some support from my folks the first couple years, my college years were never subsidized by the public- all totaled about 7 years, two degrees, a teaching credential in three states, one certificate in California and about 220 college credits.  If I were young and starting today, no way could I ever afford to do that, let alone a simple two year AA or 4 your degree.

    And what happens if we don't have enough health care practitioners because not enough people could afford to go to med school?  Or environmental lawyers?  Or alternative energy engineers?  Etc.
    We do not need more lawyers of any kind
    I know there's got to be a good lawyer job couched in what you say somewhere, Cincy, haha!

    But seriously, it depends on what you mean.  Sure there are scummy lawyers.  But there are lawyers who charge little or work pro bono for just causes and we can never have too much justice.  I've known a number of good lawyers.  I have friends and one relative who are lawyers and they are fine, fine people.  They do good work.  We can never have too much good work.
    Lawyers are easily one of the top 5 awful professions...a law licence give them a licence to print money.

    Along with:

    Politician
    Insurance (insurance agents/brokers, have no soul...hell anyone in the insurance industry has no soul).
    Ministers
    and most CEO's of companies that did not found the company...
    and an honourable mention most bankers


    Try having a functioning society without insurance,  banks or lawyers.  Good luck.  
  • these blanket statements are just fucking hilarious in their ignorance. 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,038
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Mayor Pete on free college...

    Americans who have a college degree earn more than Americans who don’t. As a progressive, I have a hard time getting my head around the idea of a majority who earn less because they didn’t go to college subsidizing a minority who earn more because they did.

    I might be all in on this guy...
    I kind of see his point but then how do we make it more affordable for people to go to college so more people can be better off?  

    You see, other than receiving some support from my folks the first couple years, my college years were never subsidized by the public- all totaled about 7 years, two degrees, a teaching credential in three states, one certificate in California and about 220 college credits.  If I were young and starting today, no way could I ever afford to do that, let alone a simple two year AA or 4 your degree.

    And what happens if we don't have enough health care practitioners because not enough people could afford to go to med school?  Or environmental lawyers?  Or alternative energy engineers?  Etc.
    So dealing with cost curve and how it's outpacing inflation is something that has to be dealt with.  
    But it's interesting that you bring up medical degrees and attorneys, specifically.  Those degrees are such high paying jobs,  that the investment in loans,  even at these inflated rates,  pays off.  

    Other degrees,  non advanced degrees,  like teaching,  nursing,  etc., are an issue.  My position is that I support substantial aid for those in need,  for degrees that are in demand for society.  I would have no issue paying higher taxes for lower middle class and below,  receiving free or substantially reduced community college,  then 2 year state degrees for those types of professions.  

    The average income for a family practitioner is 240k. A specialist is about 350. These are averages.  100k in medical school debt is not a death sentence and none of us should subsidize that.
    But M, I said health care practitioners, not doctors. Not all health care workers are doctors.  Oh, I agree we don't need to subsidize people who are going to get stinking rich off other people misery.  But not all health care workers and/or doctors are out to rip people off. My brother in law (now deceased) worked with doctors without borders in south America.  He was not at all a wealthy man.

    As for lawyers, see above.

    And I'm not just talking about lawyers and doctors.  We need good, qualified fire fighters, police men and women, teachers, counselors, educated journalists and editors, archivists, librarians, fundraisers, graphic designers, recording engineers and on and on.  Anyone with a college degree  is far more apt to get jobs like these- skilled jons that offer services many of us depend on-  and be better trained to do them well.  I'm all for finding ways to get more people into and through college. 

    I think Mayor Pet's comment was a bit of a gross oversight and not conducive to garnering my vote.



    Brian,

    Im with you all the way.  My comments about the govt helping lower income people with "in need" careers applies to what you're saying.   I agree that Pete's comments are overstated.  But Warren talking about forgiving all student debt and make college free regardless of need or income level are overstated on the other side. Im a bug believer in means testing,  in general, and when you talk about subsidized tuition,  then I add "public need of the career" to the equation. 
    I'd have to agree.  I think this comes under the heading, "Trying too hard to please".  Anything that is "free" is taken for granted. 

    If there is a reasonable fee, the student will be investing in their future.  It's the "reasonable" part we seem to have trouble with.  College costs are way too high today.  Text books are too overly expensive.  And I've often believed administrative cost are way too high.  People who do less work getting paid more.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 Posts: 28,501
    Is there really a need for tangible textbooks anymore?  All of our textbooks are pretty much online. You can annotate them, highlite, take notes, etc. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,445
    these blanket statements are just fucking hilarious in their ignorance. 
    There are currently 1.34 million lawyers in the US. 1 for every 300 people. All I’m saying is that is plenty, we don’t need more and we certainly do need tax payers $ going towards creating more
    hippiemom = goodness
  • these blanket statements are just fucking hilarious in their ignorance. 
    There are currently 1.34 million lawyers in the US. 1 for every 300 people. All I’m saying is that is plenty, we don’t need more and we certainly do need tax payers $ going towards creating more
    Your comment was not what I was referring to, but since you replied, the market will decide how many lawyers are needed. I'd rather have more lawyers fighting for business (lower rates) than a handful charging more than what an average person can afford. 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • OnWis97OnWis97 Posts: 5,143
    these blanket statements are just fucking hilarious in their ignorance. 
    There are currently 1.34 million lawyers in the US. 1 for every 300 people. All I’m saying is that is plenty, we don’t need more and we certainly do need tax payers $ going towards creating more
    That's actually a part of why I did not pursue law school.  Because we have too many lawyers; and not in a "lawyers are bad" way but in a supply/demand way.  I was nervous about prospects coming out of law school.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,445
    these blanket statements are just fucking hilarious in their ignorance. 
    There are currently 1.34 million lawyers in the US. 1 for every 300 people. All I’m saying is that is plenty, we don’t need more and we certainly do need tax payers $ going towards creating more
    Your comment was not what I was referring to, but since you replied, the market will decide how many lawyers are needed. I'd rather have more lawyers fighting for business (lower rates) than a handful charging more than what an average person can afford. 
    The market will decide....unless of course government is paying for everyone’s degree...then people will just pick what they want and it might not be what we need.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • these blanket statements are just fucking hilarious in their ignorance. 
    There are currently 1.34 million lawyers in the US. 1 for every 300 people. All I’m saying is that is plenty, we don’t need more and we certainly do need tax payers $ going towards creating more
    Your comment was not what I was referring to, but since you replied, the market will decide how many lawyers are needed. I'd rather have more lawyers fighting for business (lower rates) than a handful charging more than what an average person can afford. 
    The market will decide....unless of course government is paying for everyone’s degree...then people will just pick what they want and it might not be what we need.
    yes, in that sense, i agree, that programs that are free/subsidized should be based on societal need. sorry, I forgot you were referring to free college. 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,445
    these blanket statements are just fucking hilarious in their ignorance. 
    There are currently 1.34 million lawyers in the US. 1 for every 300 people. All I’m saying is that is plenty, we don’t need more and we certainly do need tax payers $ going towards creating more
    Your comment was not what I was referring to, but since you replied, the market will decide how many lawyers are needed. I'd rather have more lawyers fighting for business (lower rates) than a handful charging more than what an average person can afford. 
    The market will decide....unless of course government is paying for everyone’s degree...then people will just pick what they want and it might not be what we need.
    yes, in that sense, i agree, that programs that are free/subsidized should be based on societal need. sorry, I forgot you were referring to free college. 
    Ah my bad, yes it terms of free college. Sometime I forget others can’t see/hear my thoughts :)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,675
    OnWis97 said:
    these blanket statements are just fucking hilarious in their ignorance. 
    There are currently 1.34 million lawyers in the US. 1 for every 300 people. All I’m saying is that is plenty, we don’t need more and we certainly do need tax payers $ going towards creating more
    That's actually a part of why I did not pursue law school.  Because we have too many lawyers; and not in a "lawyers are bad" way but in a supply/demand way.  I was nervous about prospects coming out of law school.
    Lawyers are a dime a dozen.  Unless you go to a top tier school,  it's difficult for these guys.  I used to hire attorneys as auditors for 50k. I stopped because they get caught up in too many details,  but they were not difficult to hire.  
    A person with a law degree AND a business degree is very valuable though.  I love those guys. 
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    Free taco Tuesday promise would probably garner more votes and is probably easier to implement 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,675
    Jason P said:
    Free taco Tuesday promise would probably garner more votes and is probably easier to implement 
    But only on Fridays 
  • OnWis97OnWis97 Posts: 5,143
    mrussel1 said:
    Jason P said:
    Free taco Tuesday promise would probably garner more votes and is probably easier to implement 
    But only on Fridays 
    But never AT Friday's.  Yuck.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,675
    OnWis97 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Jason P said:
    Free taco Tuesday promise would probably garner more votes and is probably easier to implement 
    But only on Fridays 
    But never AT Friday's.  Yuck.
    Im a high end Bennigan's guy, just like you. 
  • mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Mayor Pete on free college...

    Americans who have a college degree earn more than Americans who don’t. As a progressive, I have a hard time getting my head around the idea of a majority who earn less because they didn’t go to college subsidizing a minority who earn more because they did.

    I might be all in on this guy...
    I kind of see his point but then how do we make it more affordable for people to go to college so more people can be better off?  

    You see, other than receiving some support from my folks the first couple years, my college years were never subsidized by the public- all totaled about 7 years, two degrees, a teaching credential in three states, one certificate in California and about 220 college credits.  If I were young and starting today, no way could I ever afford to do that, let alone a simple two year AA or 4 your degree.

    And what happens if we don't have enough health care practitioners because not enough people could afford to go to med school?  Or environmental lawyers?  Or alternative energy engineers?  Etc.
    We do not need more lawyers of any kind
    I know there's got to be a good lawyer job couched in what you say somewhere, Cincy, haha!

    But seriously, it depends on what you mean.  Sure there are scummy lawyers.  But there are lawyers who charge little or work pro bono for just causes and we can never have too much justice.  I've known a number of good lawyers.  I have friends and one relative who are lawyers and they are fine, fine people.  They do good work.  We can never have too much good work.
    Lawyers are easily one of the top 5 awful professions...a law licence give them a licence to print money.

    Along with:

    Politician
    Insurance (insurance agents/brokers, have no soul...hell anyone in the insurance industry has no soul).
    Ministers
    and most CEO's of companies that did not found the company...
    and an honourable mention most bankers


    Try having a functioning society without insurance,  banks or lawyers.  Good luck.  
    And saying most CEOs are "awful" is so beyond ignorant it is laughable.
    Most CEOs I know are amazing people who do ridiculous things to try and make their companies better for their employees. 
    How many CEOs can someone actually know who makes statements like that.

    Fucking internet.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,675
    Some pretty good numbers for Biden.  Although since there are no numbers on teh other candidates, this is really in a vacuum.  What it shows me is how unpopular Turmp is.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/440518-biden-leads-trump-by-8-points-in-hypothetical-2020-matchup-poll
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 Posts: 28,501
    mrussel1 said:
    Some pretty good numbers for Biden.  Although since there are no numbers on teh other candidates, this is really in a vacuum.  What it shows me is how unpopular Turmp is.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/440518-biden-leads-trump-by-8-points-in-hypothetical-2020-matchup-poll
    I got my money on Biden, he can definitely beat trump. I don’t see any of the other candidates being able to beat him. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 48,908
    Biden / Buttigieg 2020
    www.myspace.com
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 Posts: 28,501
    Biden / Buttigieg 2020
    I like Biden/ Beto. Carry that Texas vote!!!
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,527
    edited April 2019
    Stop holding women back.

    Let Warren become VP. Bernie or Bootedgedge as Prez. Beto turned into a joker when he shied away from interviews. Who know about him right now.

    Screw Biden. He's half republican like Loki is half Frost Giant. Wouldn't trust Biden with the tesseract.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • I think they need a young candidate.  No more of these men who look like they are as likely to die as finish their term in office.

    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,527
    edited April 2019
    I am very interested in seeing Pete and Bernie debate or converse with eachother. There is something about them together that would be interesting to listen to. Would rather see them have an hour long podcast talk together than debating eachother though.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 Posts: 28,501
    I think they need a young candidate.  No more of these men who look like they are as likely to die as finish their term in office.

    I mean to be fair the last “old” president we had before trump was H in 89-93.  I d love a younger candidate but I just don’t see a Barack or Bill this year however it still is early.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain Posts: 31,266
    edited April 2019
    mcgruff10 said:
    I think they need a young candidate.  No more of these men who look like they are as likely to die as finish their term in office.

    I mean to be fair the last “old” president we had before trump was H in 89-93.  I d love a younger candidate but I just don’t see a Barack or Bill this year however it still is early.  
    All of the options last time were people with at least one foot in the grave.
    It is an awfully demanding job...needs someone who is younger.
    Also, someone who doesn't sound like an angry grandparent to invite younger people to participate more.  
    All my opinion....I don't hate old people, just Trump.
    (And I'm not a fan of Bernie, really)

    Post edited by F Me In The Brain on
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,445
    Nothing says get rid of the old white guy like nominating an old white guy!
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,675
    Nothing says get rid of the old white guy like nominating an old white guy!
    No one cares that Trump is old.  That's number 973 of 973 things I hate about him. 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,675
    I am very interested in seeing Pete and Biden debate or converse with eachother. There is something about them together that would be interesting to listen to. Would rather see them have an hour long podcast talk together than debating eachother though.
    They occupy the same ideological lane.  It's funny that you think Biden is half Republican and Pete is not. 
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,445
    mrussel1 said:
    Nothing says get rid of the old white guy like nominating an old white guy!
    No one cares that Trump is old.  That's number 973 of 973 things I hate about him. 
    So your saying it’s on the list?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,675
    mrussel1 said:
    Nothing says get rid of the old white guy like nominating an old white guy!
    No one cares that Trump is old.  That's number 973 of 973 things I hate about him. 
    So your saying it’s on the list?
    I hate old people
This discussion has been closed.