Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez

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  • stuckinlinestuckinline Posts: 2,821
    edited July 24
    Regardless of a person's beliefs or skin color, it is never okay to call someone a 'f***ing b***h' in the workplace.
    Post edited by stuckinline on
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,463
    Regardless of a person's beliefs or skin color, it is never okay to call someone a 'f***ing b***h' in the workplace.

    For sure- especially anyone in a position in government.   The best leaders set a good example.  Trump and his supporters started the slide in the other direction when he started talking about "grabbing pussy" and somehow that was acceptable-- to some.    Now its representatives calling a woman an effing bitch.  Here in the U.S., we're on a fast race to the bottom. 
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 13,618
    brianlux said:
    Regardless of a person's beliefs or skin color, it is never okay to call someone a 'f***ing b***h' in the workplace.
    For sure- especially anyone in a position in government.   The best leaders set a good example.  Trump and his supporters started the slide in the other direction when he started talking about "grabbing pussy" and somehow that was acceptable-- to some.    Now its representatives calling a woman an effing bitch.  Here in the U.S., we're on a fast race to the bottom. 
    That was a like decade before he ran for president and he didn't know he was being recorded. Maybe Yoho is just a dick and it has nothing to do with Trump. Isn't Trump awful enough on his own accord where we don't need to be attributing things to him that aren't his fault? It's like framing an already guilty man. That's not to say that anyone should feel they could just "grab a woman by the pussy." But it's not like he said that in a speech or at a rally. 
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  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 2,570

    Regardless of a person's beliefs or skin color, it is never okay to call someone a 'f***ing b***h' in the workplace.

    It would get more fired...
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
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  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere.Posts: 4,205
    I don't like the B word. I also don't like the D word. We can certainly agree that both are rude....not nice, etc.
    As for the press sec, I'd just say she's a liar. The other words are completely unnecessary, right? Being a liar is a terrible thing.

    Listen, stay safe everyone. This quarantine is difficult but your safety is the most important thing. Get nice masks...maybe with a sports team or something on them? Sending out big hugs; have a nice weekend.

    Falling down,...not staying down
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,463
    brianlux said:
    Regardless of a person's beliefs or skin color, it is never okay to call someone a 'f***ing b***h' in the workplace.
    For sure- especially anyone in a position in government.   The best leaders set a good example.  Trump and his supporters started the slide in the other direction when he started talking about "grabbing pussy" and somehow that was acceptable-- to some.    Now its representatives calling a woman an effing bitch.  Here in the U.S., we're on a fast race to the bottom. 
    That was a like decade before he ran for president and he didn't know he was being recorded. Maybe Yoho is just a dick and it has nothing to do with Trump. Isn't Trump awful enough on his own accord where we don't need to be attributing things to him that aren't his fault? It's like framing an already guilty man. That's not to say that anyone should feel they could just "grab a woman by the pussy." But it's not like he said that in a speech or at a rally. 

    I didn't make very clear what I was trying to say- my bad.  My point is that people do see Trump as someone who thinks the way someone who says p... grabbing and other gutter language and are probably not surprised to hear a politician use that language in public.

    But, yeah, fair enough, I'll retract this incident as being attributed to Trump.  What I will say though is that any politician worth his or her salt will know better than to talk that way in public.  I'm guessing many politicians have and do swear a blue streak in private.  But a good public servant knows not to do that outside of in private.  I'm no saint and I'm no prude and I'm guilty of using such language myself, but I'm also not a public servant.  When I was a teacher, I did consider myself a public servant and spoke appropriately as one in that capacity. 

    My concern is that the crudeness of some of our so-called leaders is becoming more and more acceptable.  That's low.
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 13,618
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    Regardless of a person's beliefs or skin color, it is never okay to call someone a 'f***ing b***h' in the workplace.
    For sure- especially anyone in a position in government.   The best leaders set a good example.  Trump and his supporters started the slide in the other direction when he started talking about "grabbing pussy" and somehow that was acceptable-- to some.    Now its representatives calling a woman an effing bitch.  Here in the U.S., we're on a fast race to the bottom. 
    That was a like decade before he ran for president and he didn't know he was being recorded. Maybe Yoho is just a dick and it has nothing to do with Trump. Isn't Trump awful enough on his own accord where we don't need to be attributing things to him that aren't his fault? It's like framing an already guilty man. That's not to say that anyone should feel they could just "grab a woman by the pussy." But it's not like he said that in a speech or at a rally. 

    I didn't make very clear what I was trying to say- my bad.  My point is that people do see Trump as someone who thinks the way someone who says p... grabbing and other gutter language and are probably not surprised to hear a politician use that language in public.

    But, yeah, fair enough, I'll retract this incident as being attributed to Trump.  What I will say though is that any politician worth his or her salt will know better than to talk that way in public.  I'm guessing many politicians have and do swear a blue streak in private.  But a good public servant knows not to do that outside of in private.  I'm no saint and I'm no prude and I'm guilty of using such language myself, but I'm also not a public servant.  When I was a teacher, I did consider myself a public servant and spoke appropriately as one in that capacity. 

    My concern is that the crudeness of some of our so-called leaders is becoming more and more acceptable.  That's low.
    Yeah it has. And while Trump’s pussy statement proceeds his presidency, he certainly has made crudeness and outrageousness more mainstream in politics. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2

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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,463
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    Regardless of a person's beliefs or skin color, it is never okay to call someone a 'f***ing b***h' in the workplace.
    For sure- especially anyone in a position in government.   The best leaders set a good example.  Trump and his supporters started the slide in the other direction when he started talking about "grabbing pussy" and somehow that was acceptable-- to some.    Now its representatives calling a woman an effing bitch.  Here in the U.S., we're on a fast race to the bottom. 
    That was a like decade before he ran for president and he didn't know he was being recorded. Maybe Yoho is just a dick and it has nothing to do with Trump. Isn't Trump awful enough on his own accord where we don't need to be attributing things to him that aren't his fault? It's like framing an already guilty man. That's not to say that anyone should feel they could just "grab a woman by the pussy." But it's not like he said that in a speech or at a rally. 

    I didn't make very clear what I was trying to say- my bad.  My point is that people do see Trump as someone who thinks the way someone who says p... grabbing and other gutter language and are probably not surprised to hear a politician use that language in public.

    But, yeah, fair enough, I'll retract this incident as being attributed to Trump.  What I will say though is that any politician worth his or her salt will know better than to talk that way in public.  I'm guessing many politicians have and do swear a blue streak in private.  But a good public servant knows not to do that outside of in private.  I'm no saint and I'm no prude and I'm guilty of using such language myself, but I'm also not a public servant.  When I was a teacher, I did consider myself a public servant and spoke appropriately as one in that capacity. 

    My concern is that the crudeness of some of our so-called leaders is becoming more and more acceptable.  That's low.
    Yeah it has. And while Trump’s pussy statement proceeds his presidency, he certainly has made crudeness and outrageousness more mainstream in politics. 

    So true!  I see it as a sign of the times that does not bode well for our future. 

    Should rock and rollers cuss now and then?  Hell yes.  Steve Wynn played a song today on his live-from-home show called:

    "Ted Fucking Williams"

    Everyone's so kind and humble
    Don't you know that I can see right through it?
    Keeping all their comments down
    You know it ain't a boast if you can do it
    And everyone says "Say hey"
    And everyone says "Did you see that kid play?"
    I've got to give the kid a hand
    But there's nothing that he can do better than I can
    I'm Ted Fucking Williams

    But failure's not a sign of grace
    It only means you don't know what you're doing
    And everyone says "Hey, Mick"
    Mantle this, Mantle that, it makes me sick
    It's just so hard to see
    Why do they like him better than me?
    I'm Ted Fucking Williams

    And everyone says "Hey, Duke"
    Like everything I did was some kind of fluke
    I gotta give the Duke a hand
    But there's nothing that he can do better than I can
    I'm Ted Fucking Williams


    But  president, congressperson, others in office?  No way!

    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 2,570
    This is about far more than AOC...but it’s a good read

    https://www.thecut.com/2020/07/aoc-speech-ted-yoho-new-york-times.html?fbclid=IwAR0IqbYx-1GgSlNlzbFHpVZ6i9DPTx4rLCpiVl-1Y6hfkUdOeGfs6B2kvlk#comments

    ”All these words somehow cast Ocasio-Cortez and her female colleagues as the disruptive and chaotic forces unleashed in this scenario, suggesting that they shattered norms in a way that Representative Yoho’s original, profane outburst apparently did not. (Perhaps Yoho’s words weren’t understood as eruptive and norm-shattering because calling women nasty names, in your head or with your friends or on the steps of your workplace, is much more of a norm than most want to acknowledge).”
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 4,776
    Her speech did highlight major concern on mine with her thoughts and beliefs. She said she goes to work in Congress to make sure her constituents have a roof over their heads.  Government providing.  Everything.  

    I would hope that all elected officials are toward every constituent having a roof over their head, clean and safe water, accessible health care, safe schools, and the rest of what makes a decent society. That's not the same thing as "government providing everything".
    It's all in how you feel you need to go about it. 
    Sure. Did she give details in how she’s going about it in the speech that concerned you? 
    Has she given details on how she’s paying for anything? 
    Everyone wants what she wants. We all want good healthcare for everyone and a roof, and food and good schools and the latest Air Jordan’s. The problem is some realize it costs more money than we have. Others just want to run up the debt and let the next generation worry about it. From what I can tell she’s the spend everything now and let others worry about it later type.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 17,826
    mace1229 said:
    Her speech did highlight major concern on mine with her thoughts and beliefs. She said she goes to work in Congress to make sure her constituents have a roof over their heads.  Government providing.  Everything.  

    I would hope that all elected officials are toward every constituent having a roof over their head, clean and safe water, accessible health care, safe schools, and the rest of what makes a decent society. That's not the same thing as "government providing everything".
    It's all in how you feel you need to go about it. 
    Sure. Did she give details in how she’s going about it in the speech that concerned you? 
    Has she given details on how she’s paying for anything? 
    Everyone wants what she wants. We all want good healthcare for everyone and a roof, and food and good schools and the latest Air Jordan’s. The problem is some realize it costs more money than we have. Others just want to run up the debt and let the next generation worry about it. From what I can tell she’s the spend everything now and let others worry about it later type.
    Well that's not exactly unique to her and her party. 
  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 3,865
    mace1229 said:
    Her speech did highlight major concern on mine with her thoughts and beliefs. She said she goes to work in Congress to make sure her constituents have a roof over their heads.  Government providing.  Everything.  

    I would hope that all elected officials are toward every constituent having a roof over their head, clean and safe water, accessible health care, safe schools, and the rest of what makes a decent society. That's not the same thing as "government providing everything".
    It's all in how you feel you need to go about it. 
    Sure. Did she give details in how she’s going about it in the speech that concerned you? 
    Has she given details on how she’s paying for anything? 
    Everyone wants what she wants. We all want good healthcare for everyone and a roof, and food and good schools and the latest Air Jordan’s. The problem is some realize it costs more money than we have. Others just want to run up the debt and let the next generation worry about it. From what I can tell she’s the spend everything now and let others worry about it later type.
    Again, once people get over her age, race and gender, you can see she’s completely full of you know what. 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 4,776
    nicknyr15 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Her speech did highlight major concern on mine with her thoughts and beliefs. She said she goes to work in Congress to make sure her constituents have a roof over their heads.  Government providing.  Everything.  

    I would hope that all elected officials are toward every constituent having a roof over their head, clean and safe water, accessible health care, safe schools, and the rest of what makes a decent society. That's not the same thing as "government providing everything".
    It's all in how you feel you need to go about it. 
    Sure. Did she give details in how she’s going about it in the speech that concerned you? 
    Has she given details on how she’s paying for anything? 
    Everyone wants what she wants. We all want good healthcare for everyone and a roof, and food and good schools and the latest Air Jordan’s. The problem is some realize it costs more money than we have. Others just want to run up the debt and let the next generation worry about it. From what I can tell she’s the spend everything now and let others worry about it later type.
    Again, once people get over her age, race and gender, you can see she’s completely full of you know what. 
    Right. People don’t hate her because she’s a woman or young or attractive. It’s she wants to spend $40 trillion and her answer on how to pay for it is “you just pay it.”  If she ran a company the way she wants to run the US it would be bankrupt and people wouldn’t be getting their paychecks within months.

    But you bring that up and the response is “you’re just afraid of smart young females.”
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 17,336
    mace1229 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Her speech did highlight major concern on mine with her thoughts and beliefs. She said she goes to work in Congress to make sure her constituents have a roof over their heads.  Government providing.  Everything.  

    I would hope that all elected officials are toward every constituent having a roof over their head, clean and safe water, accessible health care, safe schools, and the rest of what makes a decent society. That's not the same thing as "government providing everything".
    It's all in how you feel you need to go about it. 
    Sure. Did she give details in how she’s going about it in the speech that concerned you? 
    Has she given details on how she’s paying for anything? 
    Everyone wants what she wants. We all want good healthcare for everyone and a roof, and food and good schools and the latest Air Jordan’s. The problem is some realize it costs more money than we have. Others just want to run up the debt and let the next generation worry about it. From what I can tell she’s the spend everything now and let others worry about it later type.
    Again, once people get over her age, race and gender, you can see she’s completely full of you know what. 
    Right. People don’t hate her because she’s a woman or young or attractive. It’s she wants to spend $40 trillion and her answer on how to pay for it is “you just pay it.”  If she ran a company the way she wants to run the US it would be bankrupt and people wouldn’t be getting their paychecks within months.

    But you bring that up and the response is “you’re just afraid of smart young females.”
    except you cannot run a country the same way as you run a company. this has been established. look at the amazing businessman who is floundering in the white house right now.
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 4,776
    mace1229 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Her speech did highlight major concern on mine with her thoughts and beliefs. She said she goes to work in Congress to make sure her constituents have a roof over their heads.  Government providing.  Everything.  

    I would hope that all elected officials are toward every constituent having a roof over their head, clean and safe water, accessible health care, safe schools, and the rest of what makes a decent society. That's not the same thing as "government providing everything".
    It's all in how you feel you need to go about it. 
    Sure. Did she give details in how she’s going about it in the speech that concerned you? 
    Has she given details on how she’s paying for anything? 
    Everyone wants what she wants. We all want good healthcare for everyone and a roof, and food and good schools and the latest Air Jordan’s. The problem is some realize it costs more money than we have. Others just want to run up the debt and let the next generation worry about it. From what I can tell she’s the spend everything now and let others worry about it later type.
    Again, once people get over her age, race and gender, you can see she’s completely full of you know what. 
    Right. People don’t hate her because she’s a woman or young or attractive. It’s she wants to spend $40 trillion and her answer on how to pay for it is “you just pay it.”  If she ran a company the way she wants to run the US it would be bankrupt and people wouldn’t be getting their paychecks within months.

    But you bring that up and the response is “you’re just afraid of smart young females.”
    except you cannot run a country the same way as you run a company. this has been established. look at the amazing businessman who is floundering in the white house right now.
    True. But you can’t spend $40 trillion with zero plan to pay for it either and not have the economy collapse.
  • cblock4lifecblock4life Posts: 140
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    Regardless of a person's beliefs or skin color, it is never okay to call someone a 'f***ing b***h' in the workplace.
    For sure- especially anyone in a position in government.   The best leaders set a good example.  Trump and his supporters started the slide in the other direction when he started talking about "grabbing pussy" and somehow that was acceptable-- to some.    Now its representatives calling a woman an effing bitch.  Here in the U.S., we're on a fast race to the bottom. 
    That was a like decade before he ran for president and he didn't know he was being recorded. Maybe Yoho is just a dick and it has nothing to do with Trump. Isn't Trump awful enough on his own accord where we don't need to be attributing things to him that aren't his fault? It's like framing an already guilty man. That's not to say that anyone should feel they could just "grab a woman by the pussy." But it's not like he said that in a speech or at a rally. 

    I didn't make very clear what I was trying to say- my bad.  My point is that people do see Trump as someone who thinks the way someone who says p... grabbing and other gutter language and are probably not surprised to hear a politician use that language in public.

    But, yeah, fair enough, I'll retract this incident as being attributed to Trump.  What I will say though is that any politician worth his or her salt will know better than to talk that way in public.  I'm guessing many politicians have and do swear a blue streak in private.  But a good public servant knows not to do that outside of in private.  I'm no saint and I'm no prude and I'm guilty of using such language myself, but I'm also not a public servant.  When I was a teacher, I did consider myself a public servant and spoke appropriately as one in that capacity. 

    My concern is that the crudeness of some of our so-called leaders is becoming more and more acceptable.  That's low.
    I know I’ve written this before somewhere and many have probly done the same, when you have a president who condones and encourages racism and hate it gives permission to those with similar believes to behave how they wish. 
  • bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 5,258
    mace1229 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Her speech did highlight major concern on mine with her thoughts and beliefs. She said she goes to work in Congress to make sure her constituents have a roof over their heads.  Government providing.  Everything.  

    I would hope that all elected officials are toward every constituent having a roof over their head, clean and safe water, accessible health care, safe schools, and the rest of what makes a decent society. That's not the same thing as "government providing everything".
    It's all in how you feel you need to go about it. 
    Sure. Did she give details in how she’s going about it in the speech that concerned you? 
    Has she given details on how she’s paying for anything? 
    Everyone wants what she wants. We all want good healthcare for everyone and a roof, and food and good schools and the latest Air Jordan’s. The problem is some realize it costs more money than we have. Others just want to run up the debt and let the next generation worry about it. From what I can tell she’s the spend everything now and let others worry about it later type.
    Again, once people get over her age, race and gender, you can see she’s completely full of you know what. 
    Right. People don’t hate her because she’s a woman or young or attractive. It’s she wants to spend $40 trillion and her answer on how to pay for it is “you just pay it.”  If she ran a company the way she wants to run the US it would be bankrupt and people wouldn’t be getting their paychecks within months.

    But you bring that up and the response is “you’re just afraid of smart young females.”
    except you cannot run a country the same way as you run a company. this has been established. look at the amazing businessman who is floundering in the white house right now.
    Not to take away from your point, but in fairness, 99% of the folks here would say he was a terrible businessman that drove his companies into Chapter 11. 

  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon I'm from Winnipeg, you idiot! (Chris Jericho)Posts: 21,414
    it's funny how all the people who criticize AOC for her response to "how are you going to pay for it?" with regards to basic human needs/rights might just be the same people that are a-ok with the government writing blank cheques in the name of protecting their "freedom". 

    you know what she's doing? showing you for the hypocrites you are. 
    1993 - Gimli, MB (Sun/Mudfest)
    2003 - Fargo, ND
    2005 - Winnipeg, MB
    2011 - Minneapolis, MN (EV)
    2011 - Winnipeg, MB
    2014 - St. Paul, MN
    2020 - Ottawa, ON
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 4,776
    edited July 27
    it's funny how all the people who criticize AOC for her response to "how are you going to pay for it?" with regards to basic human needs/rights might just be the same people that are a-ok with the government writing blank cheques in the name of protecting their "freedom". 

    you know what she's doing? showing you for the hypocrites you are. 
    It wasn’t just health. It was free college and a bunch of other stuff wrapped up in a $40 trillion increase to our budget.

    And I’m not okay with blank checks for military either. I think everything should be cut back until we can reduce, or at least stabilize our debt.

    There’s nothing hypocritical about criticizing someone who wants to spend $40 trillion with zero clue on how to pay for it. Who’s it going to help when the economy crashes and there is no government assistance at all?
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 4,776
    edited July 27
    And anyone willing to have a real conversation with people from other viewpoints instead of jumping to conclusions ot calling names will get to understand their points.

    i was against socialized health for a very long time. Only recently did I begin to be open to it, and it’s not because I think it’s a great idea, but our current system continues to get worse. The biggest hurdle for me, and for just about anyone I have a real conversation with, isn’t that they are unwilling to help others or that some people just don’t deserve it. But it comes down to 1 thing. They don’t trust the government to run it effectively. And why would they? Has anyone ever met someone coming out of the DMV and say “wow. That was a great experience?” Literally every single thing run by the government has major flaws. Social Security is almost bankrupt, postal service sucks and is inefficient, the VA is corrupt and lets veterans die before taking care of them, our school system sucks. Why would medicine be the one thing we get right? It probably wouldn’t be, it would probably suck too. And those who are against it think, just like the DMV, they’ll die in the waiting room. But I’m at the point where a poorly run government health plan is probably better than this for greed system we have now.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon I'm from Winnipeg, you idiot! (Chris Jericho)Posts: 21,414
    mace1229 said:
    it's funny how all the people who criticize AOC for her response to "how are you going to pay for it?" with regards to basic human needs/rights might just be the same people that are a-ok with the government writing blank cheques in the name of protecting their "freedom". 

    you know what she's doing? showing you for the hypocrites you are. 
    It wasn’t just health. It was free college and a bunch of other stuff wrapped up in a $40 trillion increase to our budget.

    And I’m not okay with blank checks for military either. I think everything should be cut back until we can reduce, or at least stabilize our debt.

    There’s nothing hypocritical about criticizing someone who wants to spend $40 trillion with zero clue on how to pay for it. Who’s it going to help when the economy crashes and there is no government assistance at all?
    "MIGHT JUST BE THE SAME PEOPLE"

    criticism is warranted of any politician, but my own observation, with obvious exceptions, is that many fall into that category. no need to get offended if it doesn't apply to you. 
    1993 - Gimli, MB (Sun/Mudfest)
    2003 - Fargo, ND
    2005 - Winnipeg, MB
    2011 - Minneapolis, MN (EV)
    2011 - Winnipeg, MB
    2014 - St. Paul, MN
    2020 - Ottawa, ON
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon I'm from Winnipeg, you idiot! (Chris Jericho)Posts: 21,414
    mace1229 said:
    And anyone willing to have a real conversation with people from other viewpoints instead of jumping to conclusions ot calling names will get to understand their points.

    i was against socialized health for a very long time. Only recently did I begin to be open to it, and it’s not because I think it’s a great idea, but our current system continues to get worse. The biggest hurdle for me, and for just about anyone I have a real conversation with, isn’t that they are unwilling to help others or that some people just don’t deserve it. But it comes down to 1 thing. They don’t trust the government to run it effectively. And why would they? Has anyone ever met someone coming out of the DMV and say “wow. That was a great experience?” Literally every single thing run by the government has major flaws. Social Security is almost bankrupt, postal service sucks and is inefficient, the VA is corrupt and lets veterans die before taking care of them, our school system sucks. Why would medicine be the one thing we get right? It probably wouldn’t be, it would probably suck too. And those who are against it think, just like the DMV, they’ll die in the waiting room. But I’m at the point where a poorly run government health plan is probably better than this for greed system we have now.
    better than leaving it to capitalists. does socialized healthcare have its flaws? obviously. but losing your home or dying because of a procedure you had no control over isn't one of them. dying in the waiting room also isn't one of them. 

    yes, there is unending corruption and waste in government, dare i say, on both sides. but as you've stated, the "for greed" system isn't sustainable for health of the populace. 
    1993 - Gimli, MB (Sun/Mudfest)
    2003 - Fargo, ND
    2005 - Winnipeg, MB
    2011 - Minneapolis, MN (EV)
    2011 - Winnipeg, MB
    2014 - St. Paul, MN
    2020 - Ottawa, ON
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 4,776
    mace1229 said:
    it's funny how all the people who criticize AOC for her response to "how are you going to pay for it?" with regards to basic human needs/rights might just be the same people that are a-ok with the government writing blank cheques in the name of protecting their "freedom". 

    you know what she's doing? showing you for the hypocrites you are. 
    It wasn’t just health. It was free college and a bunch of other stuff wrapped up in a $40 trillion increase to our budget.

    And I’m not okay with blank checks for military either. I think everything should be cut back until we can reduce, or at least stabilize our debt.

    There’s nothing hypocritical about criticizing someone who wants to spend $40 trillion with zero clue on how to pay for it. Who’s it going to help when the economy crashes and there is no government assistance at all?
    "MIGHT JUST BE THE SAME PEOPLE"

    criticism is warranted of any politician, but my own observation, with obvious exceptions, is that many fall into that category. no need to get offended if it doesn't apply to you. 
    I thought you were saying anyone critical of AOC and her plan, or lack thereof, is a hypocrite. Politician or not. 
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon I'm from Winnipeg, you idiot! (Chris Jericho)Posts: 21,414
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    it's funny how all the people who criticize AOC for her response to "how are you going to pay for it?" with regards to basic human needs/rights might just be the same people that are a-ok with the government writing blank cheques in the name of protecting their "freedom". 

    you know what she's doing? showing you for the hypocrites you are. 
    It wasn’t just health. It was free college and a bunch of other stuff wrapped up in a $40 trillion increase to our budget.

    And I’m not okay with blank checks for military either. I think everything should be cut back until we can reduce, or at least stabilize our debt.

    There’s nothing hypocritical about criticizing someone who wants to spend $40 trillion with zero clue on how to pay for it. Who’s it going to help when the economy crashes and there is no government assistance at all?
    "MIGHT JUST BE THE SAME PEOPLE"

    criticism is warranted of any politician, but my own observation, with obvious exceptions, is that many fall into that category. no need to get offended if it doesn't apply to you. 
    I thought you were saying anyone critical of AOC and her plan, or lack thereof, is a hypocrite. Politician or not. 
    nope. could easily be the way i communicate online. sometimes i make mistakes in how i flesh out an idea in print. i take ownership of that. 
    1993 - Gimli, MB (Sun/Mudfest)
    2003 - Fargo, ND
    2005 - Winnipeg, MB
    2011 - Minneapolis, MN (EV)
    2011 - Winnipeg, MB
    2014 - St. Paul, MN
    2020 - Ottawa, ON
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 4,776
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    it's funny how all the people who criticize AOC for her response to "how are you going to pay for it?" with regards to basic human needs/rights might just be the same people that are a-ok with the government writing blank cheques in the name of protecting their "freedom". 

    you know what she's doing? showing you for the hypocrites you are. 
    It wasn’t just health. It was free college and a bunch of other stuff wrapped up in a $40 trillion increase to our budget.

    And I’m not okay with blank checks for military either. I think everything should be cut back until we can reduce, or at least stabilize our debt.

    There’s nothing hypocritical about criticizing someone who wants to spend $40 trillion with zero clue on how to pay for it. Who’s it going to help when the economy crashes and there is no government assistance at all?
    "MIGHT JUST BE THE SAME PEOPLE"

    criticism is warranted of any politician, but my own observation, with obvious exceptions, is that many fall into that category. no need to get offended if it doesn't apply to you. 
    I thought you were saying anyone critical of AOC and her plan, or lack thereof, is a hypocrite. Politician or not. 
    nope. could easily be the way i communicate online. sometimes i make mistakes in how i flesh out an idea in print. i take ownership of that. 
    Thanks for clarifying. I think most politicians, on both sides, are hypocrites. 
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon I'm from Winnipeg, you idiot! (Chris Jericho)Posts: 21,414
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    it's funny how all the people who criticize AOC for her response to "how are you going to pay for it?" with regards to basic human needs/rights might just be the same people that are a-ok with the government writing blank cheques in the name of protecting their "freedom". 

    you know what she's doing? showing you for the hypocrites you are. 
    It wasn’t just health. It was free college and a bunch of other stuff wrapped up in a $40 trillion increase to our budget.

    And I’m not okay with blank checks for military either. I think everything should be cut back until we can reduce, or at least stabilize our debt.

    There’s nothing hypocritical about criticizing someone who wants to spend $40 trillion with zero clue on how to pay for it. Who’s it going to help when the economy crashes and there is no government assistance at all?
    "MIGHT JUST BE THE SAME PEOPLE"

    criticism is warranted of any politician, but my own observation, with obvious exceptions, is that many fall into that category. no need to get offended if it doesn't apply to you. 
    I thought you were saying anyone critical of AOC and her plan, or lack thereof, is a hypocrite. Politician or not. 
    nope. could easily be the way i communicate online. sometimes i make mistakes in how i flesh out an idea in print. i take ownership of that. 
    Thanks for clarifying. I think most politicians, on both sides, are hypocrites. 
    could easily be my bias, but i think that tends to favour republicans. 
    1993 - Gimli, MB (Sun/Mudfest)
    2003 - Fargo, ND
    2005 - Winnipeg, MB
    2011 - Minneapolis, MN (EV)
    2011 - Winnipeg, MB
    2014 - St. Paul, MN
    2020 - Ottawa, ON
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 14,197
    mace1229 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Her speech did highlight major concern on mine with her thoughts and beliefs. She said she goes to work in Congress to make sure her constituents have a roof over their heads.  Government providing.  Everything.  

    I would hope that all elected officials are toward every constituent having a roof over their head, clean and safe water, accessible health care, safe schools, and the rest of what makes a decent society. That's not the same thing as "government providing everything".
    It's all in how you feel you need to go about it. 
    Sure. Did she give details in how she’s going about it in the speech that concerned you? 
    Has she given details on how she’s paying for anything? 
    Everyone wants what she wants. We all want good healthcare for everyone and a roof, and food and good schools and the latest Air Jordan’s. The problem is some realize it costs more money than we have. Others just want to run up the debt and let the next generation worry about it. From what I can tell she’s the spend everything now and let others worry about it later type.
    Again, once people get over her age, race and gender, you can see she’s completely full of you know what. 
    Right. People don’t hate her because she’s a woman or young or attractive. It’s she wants to spend $40 trillion and her answer on how to pay for it is “you just pay it.”  If she ran a company the way she wants to run the US it would be bankrupt and people wouldn’t be getting their paychecks within months.

    But you bring that up and the response is “you’re just afraid of smart young females.”
    except you cannot run a country the same way as you run a company. this has been established. look at the amazing businessman who is floundering in the white house right now.
    I don;t think that has been established.  But you need to run it like a real company not a private company led by a dictator. ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 24,225
    I love her new green deal.  Love it.  The cost to actually go through with it is a bit robust though.

    Do I think college can be free?  Sure can.  Why a university costs 25K and up to attend is mind boggling.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 4,776
    edited July 28
    I love her new green deal.  Love it.  The cost to actually go through with it is a bit robust though.

    Do I think college can be free?  Sure can.  Why a university costs 25K and up to attend is mind boggling.
    That actually isn’t that outrageous when you consider states pay schools 10-20k per student  in funding.  It could be cut back some, but I don’t see how to make it free without a significant increase in taxes.
    A college is going to have better facilities and equipment and wider range of options. But a public school has some other expenses too.

    The biggest waste in college funding is how many classes professors take (other than coaches salaries). Many profs only teach 2 classes each semester. Literally 2 classes on M,W, F and that’s it in terms of teaching. They may have other obligations that make the school look better, like conducting research or a book deal or something. But those don’t really do a lot for kids. To me it’s kind of a joke to have a full time instructor literally teach 6 hours a week and the rest of their job is making the school look good.
    Have teachers teach 20-25 hours a week will still allow plenty of time for grade Nd and prepping, etc. and put the other things as a side project, you could cut staff by more than half. School may then only cost 15-20k, and that seems reasonable. Not cheap I know, but on par with what k-12 education costs.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
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