Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez

HughFreakingDillon

Smellyman said:

and get to work.  You seem to have plenty of time

I really appreciate that you are keeping to the topic and not making this personal. really commendable. 

PJ_Soul

Blaming anything on people being driven to Trump other than the people who choose to follow Trump is what's beyond ridiculous IMO.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

Blaming anything on people being driven to Trump other than the people who choose to follow Trump is what's beyond ridiculous IMO.

disagree. I think I know what he's saying. people just get so tired of being called names and given labels the second you don't agree with them. it happens all the fucking time on the left. as a liberal, it drives me nuts. I see liberals all the time calling for unity and to stop eating their own. But these are the same people that start chewing people out for not towing the party line. criticism of anyone, especially of a minority, is not allowed. 

criticize a woman? MISOGYNIST! 
criticize a minority? BIGOT!

it's just so tiring and I could see someone who is a moderate or undecided might just get so disenfranchised by the bullshit that it pushes them to the other side. 

Ledbetterman10

PJ_Soul said:

Blaming anything on people being driven to Trump other than the people who choose to follow Trump is what's beyond ridiculous IMO.

Not as ridiculous as being over two years into Trump's presidency and still having no clue about the role the left played in making it happen. 

tempo_n_groove

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Blaming anything on people being driven to Trump other than the people who choose to follow Trump is what's beyond ridiculous IMO.

disagree. I think I know what he's saying. people just get so tired of being called names and given labels the second you don't agree with them. it happens all the fucking time on the left. as a liberal, it drives me nuts. I see liberals all the time calling for unity and to stop eating their own. But these are the same people that start chewing people out for not towing the party line. criticism of anyone, especially of a minority, is not allowed. 

criticize a woman? MISOGYNIST! 
criticize a minority? BIGOT!

it's just so tiring and I could see someone who is a moderate or undecided might just get so disenfranchised by the bullshit that it pushes them to the other side. 

I'll throw another one in that ring.

Criticize anything Jewish or Israel= Antisemitic

benjs

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Blaming anything on people being driven to Trump other than the people who choose to follow Trump is what's beyond ridiculous IMO.

disagree. I think I know what he's saying. people just get so tired of being called names and given labels the second you don't agree with them. it happens all the fucking time on the left. as a liberal, it drives me nuts. I see liberals all the time calling for unity and to stop eating their own. But these are the same people that start chewing people out for not towing the party line. criticism of anyone, especially of a minority, is not allowed. 

criticize a woman? MISOGYNIST! 
criticize a minority? BIGOT!

it's just so tiring and I could see someone who is a moderate or undecided might just get so disenfranchised by the bullshit that it pushes them to the other side. 

I'll throw another one in that ring.

Criticize anything Jewish or Israel= Antisemitic

Good news is I think the sentiment is finally seeming to change. 

Lerxst1992

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Blaming anything on people being driven to Trump other than the people who choose to follow Trump is what's beyond ridiculous IMO.

disagree. I think I know what he's saying. people just get so tired of being called names and given labels the second you don't agree with them. it happens all the fucking time on the left. as a liberal, it drives me nuts. I see liberals all the time calling for unity and to stop eating their own. But these are the same people that start chewing people out for not towing the party line. criticism of anyone, especially of a minority, is not allowed. 

criticize a woman? MISOGYNIST! 
criticize a minority? BIGOT!

it's just so tiring and I could see someone who is a moderate or undecided might just get so disenfranchised by the bullshit that it pushes them to the other side. 

The difference to me is supposedly conservative evangelicals will support a foul mouthed p*ssy grabbing adulterer without question but liberals might consider an old man who smells ladies hair as being a tad too weird to vote for.

On the right they call anyone who believes in gun regulation or a womans choice to manage their own bodies an idiot.

So your point is?

HughFreakingDillon

Lerxst1992 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Blaming anything on people being driven to Trump other than the people who choose to follow Trump is what's beyond ridiculous IMO.

disagree. I think I know what he's saying. people just get so tired of being called names and given labels the second you don't agree with them. it happens all the fucking time on the left. as a liberal, it drives me nuts. I see liberals all the time calling for unity and to stop eating their own. But these are the same people that start chewing people out for not towing the party line. criticism of anyone, especially of a minority, is not allowed. 

criticize a woman? MISOGYNIST! 
criticize a minority? BIGOT!

it's just so tiring and I could see someone who is a moderate or undecided might just get so disenfranchised by the bullshit that it pushes them to the other side. 

The difference to me is supposedly conservative evangelicals will support a foul mouthed p*ssy grabbing adulterer without question but liberals might consider an old man who smells ladies hair as being a tad too weird to vote for.

On the right they call anyone who believes in gun regulation or a womans choice to manage their own bodies an idiot.

So your point is?

my point was clear. I'm not talking about the hypocrisies or different standards the two parties hold themselves to; it's about being on the left, and being attacked by the left when you speak about any criticism, logical criticism, to anyone on the left, more so when it's minorities you are talking about. 

mrussel1

How did this thread go so far off the rails? Is it that controversial to say that one can disagree with AOC without being a sexist?  

HughFreakingDillon

mrussel1 said:

How did this thread go so far of the rails? Is it that controversial to say that can disagree with AOC without being a sexist?  

corn flakes - milk + urine = this thread

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Blaming anything on people being driven to Trump other than the people who choose to follow Trump is what's beyond ridiculous IMO.

disagree. I think I know what he's saying. people just get so tired of being called names and given labels the second you don't agree with them. it happens all the fucking time on the left. as a liberal, it drives me nuts. I see liberals all the time calling for unity and to stop eating their own. But these are the same people that start chewing people out for not towing the party line. criticism of anyone, especially of a minority, is not allowed. 

criticize a woman? MISOGYNIST! 
criticize a minority? BIGOT!

it's just so tiring and I could see someone who is a moderate or undecided might just get so disenfranchised by the bullshit that it pushes them to the other side. 

I knew what he was saying too. My point is that none of that is a good reason to turn to Trump. I think that's just a bad excuse. There are other reactions that aren't disgustingly morally corrupt. I believe that defaulting to Trump has no good excuse or reason or motivation. Ever.

But also, yeah, of course there are reasons other than misogyny for people not to like someone. I think everyone knows that. The problem is that it IS one legit reason for many, yet EVERYONE denies it, including all of those who either consciously or subconsciously really are letting their feelings about someone be driven by misogyny (some women too! It is worked into how we're socialized remember). People tend to act like that accusation is ALWAYS irrelevant, or is only relevant when you're talking about a blatant sexist pig or something, which is far from the case (even on these boards in some cases), which I think does way more harm than anything else.

dignin

mrussel1 said:

How did this thread go so far off the rails? Is it that controversial to say that one can disagree with AOC without being a sexist?  

It's not.

She is a polarizing figure, and I think more so because she's a young female. Not saying it's happening here on the AMT but let's not pretend its not happening to a great degree elsewhere. So I think people could understand why some might question and challenge ones position when it comes to AOC. We're all subject to the media hype, negative and positive.

I honestly think that if she was a male she wouldn't be as controversial and polarizing. I'm sure she knows that and uses it to her advantage.

HughFreakingDillon

it wasn't defaulting to trump. it was being forced away from the democratic party because of all the bullshit. where do you go? and many people didn't see the inherent risk in giving trump a chance. 

you say "everyone knows that", but a lot of people sure don't act like it. when you say one thing about a person that has everything to do with substance and nothing to do with misogyny, many people's kneejerk is "YOU HATE WOMEN", regardless of what was said. which is just stupid.

of course it's not always irrelevant. but it's a stupid and lazy thing to automatically assume/accuse at the outset with no real basis for it. 

and ignoring an accusation is more harmful that a wrongful one?

HughFreakingDillon

her polarization has more to do with her brashness than her gender. just my opinion. 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

her polarization has more to do with her brashness than her gender. just my opinion. 

I believe that her so-called brashness wouldn't be mentioned the way it is if she were a he though. We all know that a woman's behaviour is much more harshly judge than when it's coming from a man. I know you know the deal: He's assertive, she's a bitch. He's passionate, she's unhinged. And so on.

But aside from that... I just don't think she's brash, lol. I'm not really sure why she is being labelled like that. She's blunt, which is good. She's excitable/passionate/energetic, which is good. She's angry about things worth being angry about, which is good. She's confrontational with those who need to be confronted, which is good...

mrussel1

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

her polarization has more to do with her brashness than her gender. just my opinion. 

I believe that her so-called brashness wouldn't be mentioned the way it is if she were a he though. We all know that a woman's behaviour is much more harshly judge than when it's coming from a man. I know you know the deal: He's assertive, she's a bitch. He's passionate, she's unhinged. And so on.

But aside from that... I just don't think she's brash, lol. I'm not really sure why she is being labelled like that. She's blunt, which is good. She's excitable/passionate/energetic, which is good. She's angry about things worth being angry about, which is good. She's confrontational with those who need to be confronted, which is good...

And she's eating her own,  which is bad.  

mrussel1

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

How did this thread go so far off the rails? Is it that controversial to say that one can disagree with AOC without being a sexist?  

It's not.

She is a polarizing figure, and I think more so because she's a young female. Not saying it's happening here on the AMT but let's not pretend its not happening to a great degree elsewhere. So I think people could understand why some might question and challenge ones position when it comes to AOC. We're all subject to the media hype, negative and positive.

I honestly think that if she was a male she wouldn't be as controversial and polarizing. I'm sure she knows that and uses it to her advantage.

I'll agree with all of this. 

bbiggs

HughFreakingDillon said:

her polarization has more to do with her brashness than her gender. just my opinion. 

Agree fully. She’s way too cocky. She walked on the job day 1 like she was the smartest in the room and had all the answers.  That doesn’t sit well with a lot of people. Gender is irrelevant. 

cincybearcat

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

her polarization has more to do with her brashness than her gender. just my opinion. 

I believe that her so-called brashness wouldn't be mentioned the way it is if she were a he though. We all know that a woman's behaviour is much more harshly judge than when it's coming from a man. I know you know the deal: He's assertive, she's a bitch. He's passionate, she's unhinged. And so on.

But aside from that... I just don't think she's brash, lol. I'm not really sure why she is being labelled like that. She's blunt, which is good. She's excitable/passionate/energetic, which is good. She's angry about things worth being angry about, which is good. She's confrontational with those who need to be confronted, which is good...

That’s a  good question. I feel like the republicans would not care about her brashness if she was a man and a republican.

i mean how did people view Chris Christie etc on the opposite side of the political system?

But I also think it’s weak sauce to claim that anyone that disagrees with a female politician is just doing so cause it’s a she. I find Bernie more annoying that AOC, But I still find her annoying too! Lots of annoying politicians though.

PJ_Soul

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

her polarization has more to do with her brashness than her gender. just my opinion. 

I believe that her so-called brashness wouldn't be mentioned the way it is if she were a he though. We all know that a woman's behaviour is much more harshly judge than when it's coming from a man. I know you know the deal: He's assertive, she's a bitch. He's passionate, she's unhinged. And so on.

But aside from that... I just don't think she's brash, lol. I'm not really sure why she is being labelled like that. She's blunt, which is good. She's excitable/passionate/energetic, which is good. She's angry about things worth being angry about, which is good. She's confrontational with those who need to be confronted, which is good...

That’s a  good question. I feel like the republicans would not care about her brashness if she was a man and a republican.

i mean how did people view Chris Christie etc on the opposite side of the political system?

But I also think it’s weak sauce to claim that anyone that disagrees with a female politician is just doing so cause it’s a she. I find Bernie more annoying that AOC, But I still find her annoying too! Lots of annoying politicians though.

But I already said that it's not reasonable to claim that anyone who disagrees with a female politician is doing it just because she's a she. But I also think some who disagree with a female politician are doing it because she's a she without even realizing it. Not all. Some.

Anyway, I don't think there is anything at all annoying about AOC, and love how she marched in on her first day acting like she ruled the school,  given the political atmosphere that she is confronting right now, as someone who is COMPLETELY different from what all her peers are like and from what many of them want, especially the old ones. I think someone like that is a badly needed breath of fresh air.