Until we get China on board with a deal I don't think it is going to make much of a difference other than send more business their way. The lack of regulations is one reason it is so much cheaper to produce over there. With one one of the goals to increase domestic production of goods, I just dont see that happening without cooperation from China.
China is making major changes in its own environmental issues, and has the money to drive it. Yes, their environmental record has been terrible, but now they are investing in better technologies at what seems to be a much better rate than the US.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Has anyone actually read the Green Proposal yet?!?
Thoughts on it?
Have fun walking when she does away with fossil fuels by 2030. Or be prepared to take a small mortgage out for an electric car. Or you could just stay at home and be one of the unwilling to work and get free money...so all will good.
So you haven't read it then...
Some of it. As soon as someone claims we can eliminate fossil fuels in 11 years, I tend to write them off, even more so from over paid politicians.
That is fair. I'm having the same conversations with other friends and they can't and won't get past that point either.
Even though it says to remove all fossil fuels it also mentions in parts 6Bi and 8H that they will do so "as much as feasibly possible" which I take it to mean that not EVERYTHING will be eliminated.
My point about the elimination of fossil fuels is that until an affordable alternative is in place, I do not see it happening. Most of the people on earth are poor to limited means. In Canada, there is no cheaper way to heat our home's than with natural gas, electric cars were suffering massive battery drains during the polar vortex. Most of Canada is quite cold in Winter.
Until we get China on board with a deal I don't think it is going to make much of a difference other than send more business their way. The lack of regulations is one reason it is so much cheaper to produce over there. With one one of the goals to increase domestic production of goods, I just dont see that happening without cooperation from China.
Whataboutism strikes again.
What is your point? You dont think that is worth bringing up? You don;t think tightening up our own policies is going to drive more business across the sea where it is cheaper and ultimately worse the for environment? Because any plan that doesn't aknowledge that isn't really about change, it is about votes then. Because you are solving nothing. If you'd like to be part of the conversation then please add something to it, these off remarks really don't do anything.
Until we get China on board with a deal I don't think it is going to make much of a difference other than send more business their way. The lack of regulations is one reason it is so much cheaper to produce over there. With one one of the goals to increase domestic production of goods, I just dont see that happening without cooperation from China.
And when you get China on board, China will say they are on board ... but you will have no way to prove they are. Every bit of info is state-controlled...and I absolutely do not trust China.
Until we get China on board with a deal I don't think it is going to make much of a difference other than send more business their way. The lack of regulations is one reason it is so much cheaper to produce over there. With one one of the goals to increase domestic production of goods, I just dont see that happening without cooperation from China.
And when you get China on board, China will say they are on board ... but you will have no way to prove they are. Every bit of info is state-controlled...and I absolutely do not trust China.
True, but why so many on the left pretends they aren't a problem I will never understand. It isn't a deflection, its a fact. They contribute far more pollution than anyone else and we are losing most of our manufacturing to them because they can manufacture so cheap by ignoring the policies of other countries. And on top of that we are so in debt to them that we couldn't just stop trade. I'm not saying I have a solution, just acknowledging there is a problem.
Until we get China on board with a deal I don't think it is going to make much of a difference other than send more business their way. The lack of regulations is one reason it is so much cheaper to produce over there. With one one of the goals to increase domestic production of goods, I just dont see that happening without cooperation from China.
And when you get China on board, China will say they are on board ... but you will have no way to prove they are. Every bit of info is state-controlled...and I absolutely do not trust China.
True, but why so many on the left pretends they aren't a problem I will never understand. It isn't a deflection, its a fact. They contribute far more pollution than anyone else and we are losing most of our manufacturing to them because they can manufacture so cheap by ignoring the policies of other countries. And on top of that we are so in debt to them that we couldn't just stop trade. I'm not saying I have a solution, just acknowledging there is a problem.
I agree. What annoys is when people will say China is leading the world in green energy, where is the proof? The information is coming straight from the Chinese government. China is a problem domestically and internationally. In Canada, we are in a tiff with them because we arrested an Hawuiiexecutivee for extradiction to the States. To say China is pissed is an understatement. No one has the answer for China.
According to news Chinese companies have to use their technology to spy if the government say they do.
Until we get China on board with a deal I don't think it is going to make much of a difference other than send more business their way. The lack of regulations is one reason it is so much cheaper to produce over there. With one one of the goals to increase domestic production of goods, I just dont see that happening without cooperation from China.
Whataboutism strikes again.
What is your point? You dont think that is worth bringing up? You don;t think tightening up our own policies is going to drive more business across the sea where it is cheaper and ultimately worse the for environment? Because any plan that doesn't aknowledge that isn't really about change, it is about votes then. Because you are solving nothing. If you'd like to be part of the conversation then please add something to it, these off remarks really don't do anything.
Since when did the US fail to lead because of what other countries do? Oh yea, since Team Trump Treason took office.
Am I wrong in thinking that we would reduce a carbon footprint as much as possible but we would still allow fossil fuels?
Someone brought up a great point.
What about all the jobs that oil does provide?
Wouldn't that cripple our economy?
The thing is, most on the left will tell you to leave the oil ground. Alberta, Canada has suffered because they have no pipeline to tidewater with none being built within the foreseeable future. There is only one poster on here from Alberta that I would listen to what it is like to live in a province/state that is very dependent on the oil and gas industry that is somewhat suffering. Unfortunately, he rarely posts here anymore.
Until we get China on board with a deal I don't think it is going to make much of a difference other than send more business their way. The lack of regulations is one reason it is so much cheaper to produce over there. With one one of the goals to increase domestic production of goods, I just dont see that happening without cooperation from China.
Whataboutism strikes again.
What is your point? You dont think that is worth bringing up? You don;t think tightening up our own policies is going to drive more business across the sea where it is cheaper and ultimately worse the for environment? Because any plan that doesn't aknowledge that isn't really about change, it is about votes then. Because you are solving nothing. If you'd like to be part of the conversation then please add something to it, these off remarks really don't do anything.
Since when did the US fail to lead because of what other countries do? Oh yea, since Team Trump Treason took office.
All I said was if we want to make a real difference we have to get China on board too. Where did you get me suggesting we should't lead from that?
Until we get China on board with a deal I don't think it is going to make much of a difference other than send more business their way. The lack of regulations is one reason it is so much cheaper to produce over there. With one one of the goals to increase domestic production of goods, I just dont see that happening without cooperation from China.
Whataboutism strikes again.
What is your point? You dont think that is worth bringing up? You don;t think tightening up our own policies is going to drive more business across the sea where it is cheaper and ultimately worse the for environment? Because any plan that doesn't aknowledge that isn't really about change, it is about votes then. Because you are solving nothing. If you'd like to be part of the conversation then please add something to it, these off remarks really don't do anything.
Since when did the US fail to lead because of what other countries do? Oh yea, since Team Trump Treason took office.
All I said was if we want to make a real difference we have to get China on board too. Where did you get me suggesting we should't lead from that?
Because you made it sound like, “well there’s no point in the US doing anything because our jobs will just go to China and until they change, we can’t.” That’s why TTP and Paris Climate Accords are important but Team Trump Treason doesn’t give a rats ass about climate change. Hell, he still thinks it’s just the weather. The US was in a position to lead but instead digs coal.
Until we get China on board with a deal I don't think it is going to make much of a difference other than send more business their way. The lack of regulations is one reason it is so much cheaper to produce over there. With one one of the goals to increase domestic production of goods, I just dont see that happening without cooperation from China.
Whataboutism strikes again.
What is your point? You dont think that is worth bringing up? You don;t think tightening up our own policies is going to drive more business across the sea where it is cheaper and ultimately worse the for environment? Because any plan that doesn't aknowledge that isn't really about change, it is about votes then. Because you are solving nothing. If you'd like to be part of the conversation then please add something to it, these off remarks really don't do anything.
Since when did the US fail to lead because of what other countries do? Oh yea, since Team Trump Treason took office.
All I said was if we want to make a real difference we have to get China on board too. Where did you get me suggesting we should't lead from that?
Because you made it sound like, “well there’s no point in the US doing anything because our jobs will just go to China and until they change, we can’t.” That’s why TTP and Paris Climate Accords are important but Team Trump Treason doesn’t give a rats ass about climate change. Hell, he still thinks it’s just the weather. The US was in a position to lead but instead digs coal.
Agreed. The mind set around TPP was very upsetting to me. We handed the economic future of SE Asia to China.
Has anyone actually read the Green Proposal yet?!?
Thoughts on it?
Have fun walking when she does away with fossil fuels by 2030. Or be prepared to take a small mortgage out for an electric car. Or you could just stay at home and be one of the unwilling to work and get free money...so all will good.
So you haven't read it then...
Some of it. As soon as someone claims we can eliminate fossil fuels in 11 years, I tend to write them off, even more so from over paid politicians.
You keep writing everything off like this, often. You're doing yourself a disservice when you do this IMHO. Stop throwing the baby out with the bathwater and you'll have a more balanced perspective I think, and a more open mind to ideas. So you think 11 years is unreasonable. Fine. So consider what she says with a longer, more gradual timeline and see how it feels, right? And then you can consider other points that you like more, and consider yet others in a slightly different way that you favour more.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
China is making major changes in its own environmental issues, and has the money to drive it. Yes, their environmental record has been terrible, but now they are investing in better technologies at what seems to be a much better rate than the US.
They are also getting labor laws causing many businesses to move to places like Viet Nam. Always need to find the next country to exploit.
Until we get China on board with a deal I don't think it is going to make much of a difference other than send more business their way. The lack of regulations is one reason it is so much cheaper to produce over there. With one one of the goals to increase domestic production of goods, I just dont see that happening without cooperation from China.
And when you get China on board, China will say they are on board ... but you will have no way to prove they are. Every bit of info is state-controlled...and I absolutely do not trust China.
True, but why so many on the left pretends they aren't a problem I will never understand. It isn't a deflection, its a fact. They contribute far more pollution than anyone else and we are losing most of our manufacturing to them because they can manufacture so cheap by ignoring the policies of other countries. And on top of that we are so in debt to them that we couldn't just stop trade. I'm not saying I have a solution, just acknowledging there is a problem.
I agree. What annoys is when people will say China is leading the world in green energy, where is the proof? The information is coming straight from the Chinese government. China is a problem domestically and internationally. In Canada, we are in a tiff with them because we arrested an Hawuiiexecutivee for extradiction to the States. To say China is pissed is an understatement. No one has the answer for China.
According to news Chinese companies have to use their technology to spy if the government say they do.
You realize many Americans and Canadians work in China and obviously tons of companies do to? My wife's included and she has toured a ton of factories there and know what they are talking about regarding China. It isn't a completely closed off society like North Korea where all we know is what China tells us.
Their environmental and labor laws are getting better daily. Still far far behind, but companies are making an exodus as it becomes more expensive.
On to the next country so we can exploit the environment and people so we can buy stuff!
Until we get China on board with a deal I don't think it is going to make much of a difference other than send more business their way. The lack of regulations is one reason it is so much cheaper to produce over there. With one one of the goals to increase domestic production of goods, I just dont see that happening without cooperation from China.
And when you get China on board, China will say they are on board ... but you will have no way to prove they are. Every bit of info is state-controlled...and I absolutely do not trust China.
True, but why so many on the left pretends they aren't a problem I will never understand. It isn't a deflection, its a fact. They contribute far more pollution than anyone else and we are losing most of our manufacturing to them because they can manufacture so cheap by ignoring the policies of other countries. And on top of that we are so in debt to them that we couldn't just stop trade. I'm not saying I have a solution, just acknowledging there is a problem.
I agree. What annoys is when people will say China is leading the world in green energy, where is the proof? The information is coming straight from the Chinese government. China is a problem domestically and internationally. In Canada, we are in a tiff with them because we arrested an Hawuiiexecutivee for extradiction to the States. To say China is pissed is an understatement. No one has the answer for China.
According to news Chinese companies have to use their technology to spy if the government say they do.
You guys are free to trust China all you want. They are one shady country and when they don't get their own way they kidnap Canadians...sounds like a country we should be doing business with Fuck China...they are a bunch of jackasses.
Has anyone actually read the Green Proposal yet?!?
Thoughts on it?
Have fun walking when she does away with fossil fuels by 2030. Or be prepared to take a small mortgage out for an electric car. Or you could just stay at home and be one of the unwilling to work and get free money...so all will good.
So you haven't read it then...
Some of it. As soon as someone claims we can eliminate fossil fuels in 11 years, I tend to write them off, even more so from over paid politicians.
You keep writing everything off like this, often. You're doing yourself a disservice when you do this IMHO. Stop throwing the baby out with the bathwater and you'll have a more balanced perspective I think, and a more open mind to ideas. So you think 11 years is unreasonable. Fine. So consider what she says with a longer, more gradual timeline and see how it feels, right? And then you can consider other points that you like more, and consider yet others in a slightly different way that you favour more.
It doesn't matter to me what she says, fossil fuels will be used on earth long after most of us are gone...
And electric cars at this moment are not even close to feasible for masses unless the government subsidizes them, and even in Ontario where they were subsidized, they were not exactly selling many.
Has anyone actually read the Green Proposal yet?!?
Thoughts on it?
Have fun walking when she does away with fossil fuels by 2030. Or be prepared to take a small mortgage out for an electric car. Or you could just stay at home and be one of the unwilling to work and get free money...so all will good.
So you haven't read it then...
Some of it. As soon as someone claims we can eliminate fossil fuels in 11 years, I tend to write them off, even more so from over paid politicians.
You keep writing everything off like this, often. You're doing yourself a disservice when you do this IMHO. Stop throwing the baby out with the bathwater and you'll have a more balanced perspective I think, and a more open mind to ideas. So you think 11 years is unreasonable. Fine. So consider what she says with a longer, more gradual timeline and see how it feels, right? And then you can consider other points that you like more, and consider yet others in a slightly different way that you favour more.
It doesn't matter to me what she says, fossil fuels will be used on earth long after most of us are gone...
And electric cars at this moment are not even close to feasible for masses unless the government subsidizes them, and even in Ontario where they were subsidized, they were not exactly selling many.
Unless you actually read what she's proposing (or at least understand what she's proposing in full, however you choose to ingest that), I don't think it should matter to anyone here what you say on the topic. You're not qualified to say one way or another on the feasibility of a plan you haven't read through.
As for the "feasible for the masses", if you accept that there is demand for electric vehicles, save for the concerns on battery life and the concerns on price, then I think the pivot will happen, because auto manufacturers will follow the money, and R & D is how modern companies develop their competitive edges. To me it seems likely that there will come a time when it's cheaper for the government to subsidize electric vehicles heavily than to not, due to the fact that we're consuming a non-renewable resource far more than we can afford to.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Comments
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/amazon-paid-no-federal-taxes-for-the-second-year-in-a-row
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/nyregion/amazon-hq2-queens.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
You dont think that is worth bringing up? You don;t think tightening up our own policies is going to drive more business across the sea where it is cheaper and ultimately worse the for environment? Because any plan that doesn't aknowledge that isn't really about change, it is about votes then. Because you are solving nothing.
If you'd like to be part of the conversation then please add something to it, these off remarks really don't do anything.
And on top of that we are so in debt to them that we couldn't just stop trade. I'm not saying I have a solution, just acknowledging there is a problem.
According to news Chinese companies have to use their technology to spy if the government say they do.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Yes sir, carry on.
She is in the Bronx though and not in LIC.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
LIC is the 12th district and Ocasio's is the 14th.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Her main thing was it would effect her district, which it would, being so close to it.
Am I wrong in thinking that we would reduce a carbon footprint as much as possible but we would still allow fossil fuels?
Someone brought up a great point.
What about all the jobs that oil does provide?
Wouldn't that cripple our economy?
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2018/04/30/solar-and-china-dominate-clean-energy-investment-in-first-quarter/
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
And electric cars at this moment are not even close to feasible for masses unless the government subsidizes them, and even in Ontario where they were subsidized, they were not exactly selling many.
As for the "feasible for the masses", if you accept that there is demand for electric vehicles, save for the concerns on battery life and the concerns on price, then I think the pivot will happen, because auto manufacturers will follow the money, and R & D is how modern companies develop their competitive edges. To me it seems likely that there will come a time when it's cheaper for the government to subsidize electric vehicles heavily than to not, due to the fact that we're consuming a non-renewable resource far more than we can afford to.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1