Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 11,813
    PJ_Soul said:
    Would acceptance requirements have to rise significantly? Are they very low in the US now? I've never heard that. I had the impression that admission requirements are pretty reasonable. It's very hard to get accepted to very reputable universities and you pretty much need all As and Bs, a little easier but still hard to get into the mid-range ones, you still need pretty decent grades even for the lower rated universities and colleges, like still in the 70%+ range... and if you can't make that you start with community college and build up better grades that way until you figure out how to meet the admission requirements, which is a solid tactic for self-improvement. And if you can't do that you figure out how to get a decent job without any meaningful post-secondary education.
    You have it exactly right.  There are colleges for every level of achievement and underachievement. And employers absolutely value and weigh where the degree is from differently.  

    Here's a real life example I have going on right now.  My oldest is a sophomore at William and Mary which is an excellent school here, and public.  She worked very hard in high school,  did all the right things,  checked all the boxes, straight As all the way through with AP classes to boot..  She also had 30 college credits she earned in hs. So she maxed out each semester at w&m with 18 credits.  The price is the same for 12 to 18 credits.  Consequently,  she will graduate a year early,  which makes me happy. 

    My son is a 17 year old junior.  He's like me.  Carrying a 3.2 because he doesn't do homework.  Lazy teenager.  He wants to go to UVA but doesn't have the grades.  However,  if you get an associate's in a juco in Virginia,  you're guaranteed entrance into any state school,  so long as you meet the minimum GPA and sat. It's not a competitive entrance.  So the debate is... do you spend 30k per year to send him to a middle of the road state school,  or go to juco then UVA. For me,  it's a no brainer.  There is a huge premium on W&M and UVA degrees in this state.  Of course you miss out on the "college experience", but how much is that worth when you have half the debt and a degree from a prestigious university. 

    Point is,  there are paths for people who are willing to make small sacrifices and make smart economic decisions,  to avoid the crippling debt. 
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 11,956
    PJ_Soul said:
    Would acceptance requirements have to rise significantly? Are they very low in the US now? I've never heard that. I had the impression that admission requirements are pretty reasonable. It's very hard to get accepted to very reputable universities and you pretty much need all As and Bs, a little easier but still hard to get into the mid-range ones, you still need pretty decent grades even for the lower rated universities and colleges, like still in the 70%+ range... and if you can't make that you start with community college and build up better grades that way until you figure out how to meet the admission requirements, which is a solid tactic for self-improvement. And if you can't do that you figure out how to get a decent job without any meaningful post-secondary education.
    Well I thought state schools had to admit students that could pay...they don’t get admitted to some colleges and sometime must hit the branch campuses but I thought that’s how it is...but I don’t know for sure. And I bet it differs state to state.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 14,115
    mrussel1 said:
    Also I never stated affordable or free education dumbs down nations. The distinction is just because it is free or affordable doesn’t mean unqualified people should go. That is what dumbs down the system. People who aren’t intelligent enough to attend college attending and getting degrees.
    Who are these college degreed individuals that can't do elementary math? This seems like extreme outlier,  where it may exist.  
    I taught an entire class of them. 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 11,813
    mrussel1 said:
    Also I never stated affordable or free education dumbs down nations. The distinction is just because it is free or affordable doesn’t mean unqualified people should go. That is what dumbs down the system. People who aren’t intelligent enough to attend college attending and getting degrees.
    Who are these college degreed individuals that can't do elementary math? This seems like extreme outlier,  where it may exist.  
    I taught an entire class of them. 
    So wait,  you taught a class of people with bachelor's degrees,  and none of them could do elementary math.  What are you teaching,  a master's program or a corporate training class?
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 14,115
    edited February 10
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Also I never stated affordable or free education dumbs down nations. The distinction is just because it is free or affordable doesn’t mean unqualified people should go. That is what dumbs down the system. People who aren’t intelligent enough to attend college attending and getting degrees.
    Who are these college degreed individuals that can't do elementary math? This seems like extreme outlier,  where it may exist.  
    I taught an entire class of them. 
    So wait,  you taught a class of people with bachelor's degrees,  and none of them could do elementary math.  What are you teaching,  a master's program or a corporate training class?
    It was an undergrad class for people who failed the college entrance exam. I had about 35 students and there were a dozen such classes (not all taught by me, I only had the one). Which begs to question: if you failed the college ENTRANCE exam, why were you ENTERED into college?
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,118
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Also I never stated affordable or free education dumbs down nations. The distinction is just because it is free or affordable doesn’t mean unqualified people should go. That is what dumbs down the system. People who aren’t intelligent enough to attend college attending and getting degrees.
    Who are these college degreed individuals that can't do elementary math? This seems like extreme outlier,  where it may exist.  
    I taught an entire class of them. 
    So wait,  you taught a class of people with bachelor's degrees,  and none of them could do elementary math.  What are you teaching,  a master's program or a corporate training class?
    It was an undergrad class for people who failed the college entrance exam. I had about 35 students and there were a dozen such classes (not all taught by me, I only had the one). Which begs to question: if you failed the college ENTRANCE exam, why were you ENTERED into college?
    Answer: $
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 14,115
    my2hands said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Also I never stated affordable or free education dumbs down nations. The distinction is just because it is free or affordable doesn’t mean unqualified people should go. That is what dumbs down the system. People who aren’t intelligent enough to attend college attending and getting degrees.
    Who are these college degreed individuals that can't do elementary math? This seems like extreme outlier,  where it may exist.  
    I taught an entire class of them. 
    So wait,  you taught a class of people with bachelor's degrees,  and none of them could do elementary math.  What are you teaching,  a master's program or a corporate training class?
    It was an undergrad class for people who failed the college entrance exam. I had about 35 students and there were a dozen such classes (not all taught by me, I only had the one). Which begs to question: if you failed the college ENTRANCE exam, why were you ENTERED into college?
    Answer: $
    Bingo!
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 11,813
    I don't understand this desire or perspective to not allow or otherwise discourage people from going to college and potentially better their future.  The mindset that they dilute the degree of another is exactly the same mindset of those who don't want immigrants because it reduces their future prospects. Plus,  being in that class means they were identified as not being prepared for college.  It certainly doesn't mean they will graduate. 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,478
    mrussel1 said:
    Also I never stated affordable or free education dumbs down nations. The distinction is just because it is free or affordable doesn’t mean unqualified people should go. That is what dumbs down the system. People who aren’t intelligent enough to attend college attending and getting degrees.
    Who are these college degreed individuals that can't do elementary math? This seems like extreme outlier,  where it may exist.  
    I don’t think he said college degree individuals, just referencing some individuals in college (pre-degree I assume).
    it was an exaggeration, but sadly not far from the truth. There are lots of people who graduate high school who cant’ do 8th grade math. And some of those people do get into college. They basically have to take non-credit math classes their first year or two.
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 5,843

  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 11,813
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Also I never stated affordable or free education dumbs down nations. The distinction is just because it is free or affordable doesn’t mean unqualified people should go. That is what dumbs down the system. People who aren’t intelligent enough to attend college attending and getting degrees.
    Who are these college degreed individuals that can't do elementary math? This seems like extreme outlier,  where it may exist.  
    I don’t think he said college degree individuals, just referencing some individuals in college (pre-degree I assume).
    it was an exaggeration, but sadly not far from the truth. There are lots of people who graduate high school who cant’ do 8th grade math. And some of those people do get into college. They basically have to take non-credit math classes their first year or two.
    Ok I can buy that there are lots of people with deficient math skills.  But to your point,  they take non credit prep classes.  And to PJ Souls point,  if you are targeting an art,  not a science,  math isn't as important for success in your chosen field.  But I don't think it makes them unworthy of pursuing a degree nor undeserving if they successfully complete all requirements. 
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 18,065
    Someone start a "college higher learning" thread so I can rip it a new one.

    Thread integrity:
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/02/11/aoc-green-new-deal-government-expansion-masquerading-climate-plan-column/2813404002/

    Please read.  It's an opinion piece but it's interesting.
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,118
    It will be a boondoggle and massive giveaway to select interests just like every other modern large undertaking by the US Congress 

    When did I become such a cynic? Lol
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 5,843
    According to Unifor President Jerry Dias, electric cars will be less than 5% of the US market and less than 2% of the Canadian by 2025.  Fossil fuels are going nowhere in her lifetime.  Keep dreaming.  Does she think that people in the northern climate are going to stop heating their homes with natural gas?  During the polar vortex, owners of Tesla reported battery drains of 25%-40% just sitting overnight and the battery drained more quickly while being used.  
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 9,899
    Unfortunately, what it boils down to is we (in the larger sense) take these drastic actions toward change or we reap even more devastating consequences. People can snicker all they like now about how naive or unrealistic plans like these are, but if they don’t happen, the world is a much worse place a few short decades from now 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 11,813
    Someone start a "college higher learning" thread so I can rip it a new one.

    Thread integrity:
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/02/11/aoc-green-new-deal-government-expansion-masquerading-climate-plan-column/2813404002/

    Please read.  It's an opinion piece but it's interesting.
    While the Cato institute is absolutely conservative,  it raises accurate points.  "Green" is not a modifier for New Deal in this proposal,  it's ancillary.  While I consider the New Deal one of the great legislative successes in American history,  the economic situation for a vast majority of people in the 1930s is on the other end of the spectrum compared to today.  

    Democratic candidates need to be very careful about embracing this proposal.  It could easily be an albatross and something Trump would attempt to make the number one issue on the ballot. 
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 18,065
    According to Unifor President Jerry Dias, electric cars will be less than 5% of the US market and less than 2% of the Canadian by 2025.  Fossil fuels are going nowhere in her lifetime.  Keep dreaming.  Does she think that people in the northern climate are going to stop heating their homes with natural gas?  During the polar vortex, owners of Tesla reported battery drains of 25%-40% just sitting overnight and the battery drained more quickly while being used.  
    When the fastest production car is electric people are going to take notice.  I'd expect electric cars to gather steam here real shortly.
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 5,843
    According to Unifor President Jerry Dias, electric cars will be less than 5% of the US market and less than 2% of the Canadian by 2025.  Fossil fuels are going nowhere in her lifetime.  Keep dreaming.  Does she think that people in the northern climate are going to stop heating their homes with natural gas?  During the polar vortex, owners of Tesla reported battery drains of 25%-40% just sitting overnight and the battery drained more quickly while being used.  
    When the fastest production car is electric people are going to take notice.  I'd expect electric cars to gather steam here real shortly.
    I'm certainly no fan of Jerry Dias, but I think in this case he is likely telling the truth or someone has given him incorrect info.  But I think he is accurate.  And I believe even Elon Musk has admitted that the price of electric vehicles is a problem.  And I'm against government subsidies for electric vehicles, which seems to be the only way the average person can afford them.  
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 5,843
    Tesla could make a $25,000 electric car in ‘about 3 years’, says Elon Musk

    Unfortunately, that's American...it would be much more in Canada.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 11,813
    Tesla could make a $25,000 electric car in ‘about 3 years’, says Elon Musk

    Unfortunately, that's American...it would be much more in Canada.
    And Tesla may be bankrupt by then,  if Musk continues to go insane. 
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 5,843
    edited February 11
    mrussel1 said:
    Tesla could make a $25,000 electric car in ‘about 3 years’, says Elon Musk

    Unfortunately, that's American...it would be much more in Canada.
    And Tesla may be bankrupt by then,  if Musk continues to go insane. 
    Or bought out by one of the big car companies?  I'm sure one of the big auto companies would love to buy them for their technology...
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 11,813
    mrussel1 said:
    Tesla could make a $25,000 electric car in ‘about 3 years’, says Elon Musk

    Unfortunately, that's American...it would be much more in Canada.
    And Tesla may be bankrupt by then,  if Musk continues to go insane. 
    Or bought out by one of the big car companies?  I'm sure one of the big auto companies would love to buy them for their technology...
    I'd like that.  I considered a Tesla last year but my lack of confidence in their future scuttled that plan.  
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 18,065
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Tesla could make a $25,000 electric car in ‘about 3 years’, says Elon Musk

    Unfortunately, that's American...it would be much more in Canada.
    And Tesla may be bankrupt by then,  if Musk continues to go insane. 
    Or bought out by one of the big car companies?  I'm sure one of the big auto companies would love to buy them for their technology...
    I'd like that.  I considered a Tesla last year but my lack of confidence in their future scuttled that plan.  
    The car will last far beyond what the company will, lol!
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 5,843
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Tesla could make a $25,000 electric car in ‘about 3 years’, says Elon Musk

    Unfortunately, that's American...it would be much more in Canada.
    And Tesla may be bankrupt by then,  if Musk continues to go insane. 
    Or bought out by one of the big car companies?  I'm sure one of the big auto companies would love to buy them for their technology...
    I'd like that.  I considered a Tesla last year but my lack of confidence in their future scuttled that plan.  
    The car will last far beyond what the company will, lol!
    If one of the big car companies buy Tesla, I imagine it's just for the technology and will be for electric cars under their own brand name, likely built in Mexico.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 11,956
    Tesla could make a $25,000 electric car in ‘about 3 years’, says Elon Musk

    Unfortunately, that's American...it would be much more in Canada.
    Yeah and he has not really met his timing for just about anything.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,133
    Unfortunately, what it boils down to is we (in the larger sense) take these drastic actions toward change or we reap even more devastating consequences. People can snicker all they like now about how naive or unrealistic plans like these are, but if they don’t happen, the world is a much worse place a few short decades from now 
    Yup. Time to make bold moves to save ourselves. Should have 20 years ago, but what can you do.
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 5,843
    Tesla could make a $25,000 electric car in ‘about 3 years’, says Elon Musk

    Unfortunately, that's American...it would be much more in Canada.
    Yeah and he has not really met his timing for just about anything.
    This is true.  I do give him credit for trying.  If someone can bring electric cars to the masses, that would be a good thing.  
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 14,649
    Tesla could make a $25,000 electric car in ‘about 3 years’, says Elon Musk

    Unfortunately, that's American...it would be much more in Canada.
    Yeah and he has not really met his timing for just about anything.
    This is true.  I do give him credit for trying.  If someone can bring electric cars to the masses, that would be a good thing.  
    well he continues to build charging stations for tesla models.....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

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  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 5,843
    mickeyrat said:
    Tesla could make a $25,000 electric car in ‘about 3 years’, says Elon Musk

    Unfortunately, that's American...it would be much more in Canada.
    Yeah and he has not really met his timing for just about anything.
    This is true.  I do give him credit for trying.  If someone can bring electric cars to the masses, that would be a good thing.  
    well he continues to build charging stations for tesla models.....
    Then that is good. 
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 46,849
    edited February 11
    PJ_Soul said:
    Would acceptance requirements have to rise significantly? Are they very low in the US now? I've never heard that. I had the impression that admission requirements are pretty reasonable. It's very hard to get accepted to very reputable universities and you pretty much need all As and Bs, a little easier but still hard to get into the mid-range ones, you still need pretty decent grades even for the lower rated universities and colleges, like still in the 70%+ range... and if you can't make that you start with community college and build up better grades that way until you figure out how to meet the admission requirements, which is a solid tactic for self-improvement. And if you can't do that you figure out how to get a decent job without any meaningful post-secondary education.
    Lots of people get well-paying jobs without a post-secondary degree.  People in the trades are likely doing better than many without a college degree.  Now mind you, some choose to start their trade in college, but many starts as an apprentice right out of HS.  In my area, the local college which offers a CNC program saw many people leave before completing the certificate program to take $20/hr hour jobs in the industry.  That was just a starting wage, increasing dramatically over the next 5 years...these jobs came with benefits, pensions, 3 weeks vacation after year 1 and no debt and no burden to taxpayers...not bad for a 20-year-old.  And that 20/hour would afford these young people a wage that also would allow them to own a home if they choose.
    I know that. My two best friends are a plumber and an electrician (which comes in very handy btw, lol). Of course I'm only talking about people who WANT to go to college/university. Tons of people don't because they want to do something that doesn't need it. I'm not talking about them. I thought that was assumed.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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