I honestly get nervous when my wife decides to go for a walk by the river after dark. I do have an anxiety and overactive imagination problem, but still......with two daughters, I'm going to have a VERY difficult time.
Same here...but at least my wife is pretty proficient with a firearm. But every time she goes somewhere alone, my protective mind goes instinctual and I imagine the worst of the worst possible scenarios.
my wife has trouble with a butter knife. so glad our gun laws are different up here.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I thought we could have an adult conversation about a serious subject. If it were up to me, I'd shut this thing down.
Be safe ladies.
Be kind guys.
It would be great to have an adult conversation about a very serious topic but some asshole calling women who have been violated vindictive is crossing the line of a proper conversation.
Have you ever gotten someone to see what you're trying to say while at the same time called them an asshole or fuck you and shit like that? I haven't.
Sometimes it just feels right to call a spade a spade, imo.
This certain troll goes out of his way to antagonize people -- and this being his second Pearl Jam forum membership (PJFAN) threads like this just show how good he is at being a cockbag.
I am not a violent person, but this is the type of person that just needs a complete ass beating.
Good for @LongestRoad -- going to get a time out but someone needs to tell this pile of garbage what any person with brains thinks of him and his opinions.
I honestly get nervous when my wife decides to go for a walk by the river after dark. I do have an anxiety and overactive imagination problem, but still......with two daughters, I'm going to have a VERY difficult time.
Same here...but at least my wife is pretty proficient with a firearm. But every time she goes somewhere alone, my protective mind goes instinctual and I imagine the worst of the worst possible scenarios.
my wife has trouble with a butter knife. so glad our gun laws are different up here.
Are women allowed to carry tasers up there?
0
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,383
I spoke up here and there to mention that my mother, my wife, her sister, her mother, her cousins...almost nobody in her majority female family has experienced a date like that. It's not a coincidence that none of them ever went to a man's house after a first date for a hook-up. None of them have ever had sex with a stranger. Are their voices and stories irrelevant in the #metoo era? Is it right that they are spoken for? This line of thought, given gently and diplomatically, was drummed out of town as victim blaming.
And rightly so. It is. There’s no way around it.
My wife doesn’t have a meetoo story either. So why would I be thinking that she needs a voice? To say what? That she’s never had one of these experiences so y’all need to calm down?
So yes, their voices and (lack of) stories are Absolutely irrelevant. What relevance would they have? “Act like us and men won’t treat you like garbage?”
And don’t forget, Much of this is a workplace issue. When my 65 year old male co-worker told my 30-year old female co-worker that her body makes him hard...what advice would the virtuous women of your family have been able to give her so that didn’t happen? I suppose it would be clothing-related.
And by the way, not knowing anything about all these people you mention, I’d lay good money that at least one of them has a story.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
My Mom carried carried a boot knife in her day. It probably put her at greater risk, but she would have rather been stabbed to death with her own knife than be someone's victim.
It was hard not to insert "lol" through that, because it amuses me. Part of her charm lol
I honestly get nervous when my wife decides to go for a walk by the river after dark. I do have an anxiety and overactive imagination problem, but still......with two daughters, I'm going to have a VERY difficult time.
Same here...but at least my wife is pretty proficient with a firearm. But every time she goes somewhere alone, my protective mind goes instinctual and I imagine the worst of the worst possible scenarios.
my wife has trouble with a butter knife. so glad our gun laws are different up here.
Are women allowed to carry tasers up there?
no.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I would say sometimes it has gone too far. I don't think it's ok that people get hanged out by media just because someone has accused someone for something. It seems to have been like a witch hunt at times.
0
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,383
Wow, this thread sure seems to have touched people in some inappropriate places...
Do you often hear that you aren't as funny as you think you are? Maybe listen to the people who tell you that, they are smart cookies.
Lol, well in all due respect, this did make me laugh. You are hilarious!
Words of wisdom
Okay: “Where there is shouting, there is no true knowledge.” Leonardo da Vinci
Better?
Hahahaha obviously. Is that the point you were trying to make? Big fail lol It just came off as a joke making light of sexual assault because people take it seriously.
Wow, this thread sure seems to have touched people in some inappropriate places...
Do you often hear that you aren't as funny as you think you are? Maybe listen to the people who tell you that, they are smart cookies.
Lol, well in all due respect, this did make me laugh. You are hilarious!
Words of wisdom
Okay: “Where there is shouting, there is no true knowledge.” Leonardo da Vinci
Better?
Hahahaha obviously. Is that the point you were trying to make? Big fail lol It just came off as a joke making light of sexual assault because people take it seriously.
It’s was not about sexual assault, but about all of the shots being taken at each other “shouting”. Sorry my comment “touched” you...lol (sorry, there goes another lame attempt at humor).
I would say sometimes it has gone too far. I don't think it's ok that people get hanged out by media just because someone has accused someone for something. It seems to have been like a witch hunt at times.
When I mentioned choices and behaviours that carry risk, I wasn't talking about the general vigilance everyone (but women in particular) should have. Being alone in public carries danger, but not enough in most areas to worry to heavily about. What I was talking about is, going to a man's house or inviting him into your own after a few dates is a pretty risky thing to do. Getting blackout drunk is a pretty risky thing to do for many reasons, sexual assault is surely one of them. Fooling around with someone that you don't trust well enough to go ahead and have sex with carries a significant risk.
Should women be free to do these perfectly acceptable (IMO) things?? Of course they should, but the risk is real and the more extreme factions of the #metoo movement is trying to eliminate that from the dialogue.
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
0
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,383
I would say sometimes it has gone too far. I don't think it's ok that people get hanged out by media just because someone has accused someone for something. It seems to have been like a witch hunt at times.
I see some have written that nothing has ever happened to someone they know. That just means you've never been made aware of it possibly. I know woman who's families will never know about what's happened to them. Woman getting raped at college. Girl going on a first date and being driven to the middle of nowhere and told to put out or they would get left there. People don't realize how much it happens. These things have happened for centuries as someone said but at least now it's not going to be allowed to continue silently.
When I mentioned choices and behaviours that carry risk, I wasn't talking about the general vigilance everyone (but women in particular) should have. Being alone in public carries danger, but not enough in most areas to worry to heavily about. What I was talking about is, going to a man's house or inviting him into your own after a few dates is a pretty risky thing to do. Getting blackout drunk is a pretty risky thing to do for many reasons, sexual assault is surely one of them. Fooling around with someone that you don't trust well enough to go ahead and have sex with carries a significant risk.
Should women be free to do these perfectly acceptable (IMO) things?? Of course they should, but the risk is real and the more extreme factions of the #metoo movement is trying to eliminate that from the dialogue.
it's a fine line, though, between telling someone they are exhibiting risky behaviour and blaming them because of said behaviour.
I just can't imagine being a woman and having to worry about this bullshit in day to day life.
"maybe I shouldn't have that next drink, that guy over there is creepin' on me" "I'd better put a lid on this, someone might spike it and rape me" "can I go for a walk down there? there might be someone hiding in wait"
men take for granted the amazing freedom we have to walk around every minute of every day without fear of anything, really. especially in canada (little fear of getting shot).
although I don't gather from my wife that she holds this fear (which sometimes actually bothers me), I'm sure many do. and that must SUCK.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I would say sometimes it has gone too far. I don't think it's ok that people get hanged out by media just because someone has accused someone for something. It seems to have been like a witch hunt at times.
Finally a voice of reason...
saying the movement has gone too far in this context is the same as blaming islam for suicide bombings. there are some that co-opt the movement and tarnish what it is about. it doesn't mean the movement itself is to blame.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
0
curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 3,990
When I mentioned choices and behaviours that carry risk, I wasn't talking about the general vigilance everyone (but women in particular) should have. Being alone in public carries danger, but not enough in most areas to worry to heavily about. What I was talking about is, going to a man's house or inviting him into your own after a few dates is a pretty risky thing to do. Getting blackout drunk is a pretty risky thing to do for many reasons, sexual assault is surely one of them. Fooling around with someone that you don't trust well enough to go ahead and have sex with carries a significant risk.
Should women be free to do these perfectly acceptable (IMO) things?? Of course they should, but the risk is real and the more extreme factions of the #metoo movement is trying to eliminate that from the dialogue.
@rgambs I don't consider myself part of an extreme faction (or I didn't, until this morning). I think the problem/ issue is a "slippery slope" one. Yes, there are certain behaviors that reasonable people would agree are unwise for anyone to engage in. But once we open the door to acknowledge that, say, running alone after midnight through Central Park isn't super-smart, the "yeah, but what abouts?" start to creep in, and then we end up having to argue over whether or not it is "wise" for a woman to leave her home alone after sunset. And then responsibility for what happened starts to shift from perpetrator to victim.
Because, fine, it's not smart to go for a run through Central Park alone after midnight -- but that doesn't mean I was "asking for it" if I foolishly do so and end up being mugged, raped, or worse. So I think this line of reasoning gets squashed because of the need/ desire to keep responsibility focused squarely where it belongs -- on the perpetrator.
As a parent, I'll still tell my kids, ad nauseam, "Don't do stupid shit." When my son accompanies his friend to drag karaoke night, I urge him to get a cab or Uber for the ride home after. No need to go looking for trouble. But if something bad happens to them because they made a foolish decision, I'll be defending them and supporting them, not standing there saying "See? I told you not to do stupid shit!"
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
When I mentioned choices and behaviours that carry risk, I wasn't talking about the general vigilance everyone (but women in particular) should have. Being alone in public carries danger, but not enough in most areas to worry to heavily about. What I was talking about is, going to a man's house or inviting him into your own after a few dates is a pretty risky thing to do. Getting blackout drunk is a pretty risky thing to do for many reasons, sexual assault is surely one of them. Fooling around with someone that you don't trust well enough to go ahead and have sex with carries a significant risk.
Should women be free to do these perfectly acceptable (IMO) things?? Of course they should, but the risk is real and the more extreme factions of the #metoo movement is trying to eliminate that from the dialogue.
@rgambs I don't consider myself part of an extreme faction (or I didn't, until this morning). I think the problem/ issue is a "slippery slope" one. Yes, there are certain behaviors that reasonable people would agree are unwise for anyone to engage in. But once we open the door to acknowledge that, say, running alone after midnight through Central Park isn't super-smart, the "yeah, but what abouts?" start to creep in, and then we end up having to argue over whether or not it is "wise" for a woman to leave her home alone after sunset. And then responsibility for what happened starts to shift from perpetrator to victim.
Because, fine, it's not smart to go for a run through Central Park alone after midnight -- but that doesn't mean I was "asking for it" if I foolishly do so and end up being mugged, raped, or worse. So I think this line of reasoning gets squashed because of the need/ desire to keep responsibility focused squarely where it belongs -- on the perpetrator.
As a parent, I'll still tell my kids, ad nauseam, "Don't do stupid shit." When my son accompanies his friend to drag karaoke night, I urge him to get a cab or Uber for the ride home after. No need to go looking for trouble. But if something bad happens to them because they made a foolish decision, I'll be defending them and supporting them, not standing there saying "See? I told you not to do stupid shit!"
a woman in Alberta had her BMW stolen out of a mall parking lot. As it turns out, her non-verbal autistic daughter was in the back seat. I was talking about this with a friend of mine (the girl was found safe eventually), he immedately started in with "what the fuck are you doing leaving your kid in the car?". I'm like "what? why is it her fault her kid got stolen?". people seem to always blame the victim, not just in sexual assault cases, but when anything bad happens that the public deems "preventable". I have left my kids in the car countless times when paying for gas. Not to do shopping, but this woman probably was going in for a quick sec, and it is often a lot of trouble getting your kid out of the car and dragging them somewhere they don't want to go. it is reasonable to believe they will be perfectly fine for those 90 seconds.
how about instead of "what were you thinking?" we say "what was the criminal thinking?"
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
When I mentioned choices and behaviours that carry risk, I wasn't talking about the general vigilance everyone (but women in particular) should have. Being alone in public carries danger, but not enough in most areas to worry to heavily about. What I was talking about is, going to a man's house or inviting him into your own after a few dates is a pretty risky thing to do. Getting blackout drunk is a pretty risky thing to do for many reasons, sexual assault is surely one of them. Fooling around with someone that you don't trust well enough to go ahead and have sex with carries a significant risk.
Should women be free to do these perfectly acceptable (IMO) things?? Of course they should, but the risk is real and the more extreme factions of the #metoo movement is trying to eliminate that from the dialogue.
Girls should be taught about risks. The problem becomes a) that there's so much nuance that most people can't navigate it and b) blaming women is embedded in our (and most) culture. "Some women got raped in the alley behind the bars at closing time." "Well,what was she doing out there alone at that time of night?"
If I had daughters (thank god I don't), I would talk about risks. But I'd be very careful not to send the message that "...because then if something happens, it's your fault." And that message can be sent without those words being used. Because if that's the message she gets, then she'll be less likely to come to me, or to anyone. And then 20 years later when she realizes it wasn't her fault and wants to talk about it, she'll be called a liar.
And if I had sons (thank god I don't), I'd like to think I'd put them in position to a) not be the guy who thinks he has some kind of right and b) do the right thing in peer groups, despite the pressure and the number of times the dudebros say "come on."
But right now, not only is too much blame put on the victim, but the balance of responsibility is shifted far too much toward women. How they dress, where they go, who they're with, what they drink. But while reasonable people agree on the basic premise of "rape is bad" it doesn't seem like we're really putting a lot of responsibility on men and how they respond to the woman who's alone, drunk, etc.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
When I mentioned choices and behaviours that carry risk, I wasn't talking about the general vigilance everyone (but women in particular) should have. Being alone in public carries danger, but not enough in most areas to worry to heavily about. What I was talking about is, going to a man's house or inviting him into your own after a few dates is a pretty risky thing to do. Getting blackout drunk is a pretty risky thing to do for many reasons, sexual assault is surely one of them. Fooling around with someone that you don't trust well enough to go ahead and have sex with carries a significant risk.
Should women be free to do these perfectly acceptable (IMO) things?? Of course they should, but the risk is real and the more extreme factions of the #metoo movement is trying to eliminate that from the dialogue.
Girls should be taught about risks. The problem becomes a) that there's so much nuance that most people can't navigate it and b) blaming women is embedded in our (and most) culture. "Some women got raped in the alley behind the bars at closing time." "Well,what was she doing out there alone at that time of night?"
If I had daughters (thank god I don't), I would talk about risks. But I'd be very careful not to send the message that "...because then if something happens, it's your fault." And that message can be sent without those words being used. Because if that's the message she gets, then she'll be less likely to come to me, or to anyone. And then 20 years later when she realizes it wasn't her fault and wants to talk about it, she'll be called a liar.
And if I had sons (thank god I don't), I'd like to think I'd put them in position to a) not be the guy who thinks he has some kind of right and b) do the right thing in peer groups, despite the pressure and the number of times the dudebros say "come on."
But right now, not only is too much blame put on the victim, but the balance of responsibility is shifted far too much toward women. How they dress, where they go, who they're with, what they drink. But while reasonable people agree on the basic premise of "rape is bad" it doesn't seem like we're really putting a lot of responsibility on men and how they respond to the woman who's alone, drunk, etc.
THIS. there should be mandatory classes in public school that teach this. they teach sex ed. they should teach respect ed.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
along the same lines, I saw something on facebook yesterday that really opened my eyes. It went something like this:
"if a boy is teasing your daughter, don't tell her it's because he likes her. don't start her off teaching her that harassment is equal to love"
Holy crap...that makes so much sense and yet I never thought of it. Damn it. I have a daughter and I'm pretty sure I have said to that to her about a kid. Thanks...gotta change the message.
One thing I learned growing up was that the only certain form of justice in place for a rapist is vigilante justice. A few decades later that still seems to be the case.
I would say sometimes it has gone too far. I don't think it's ok that people get hanged out by media just because someone has accused someone for something. It seems to have been like a witch hunt at times.
Finally a voice of reason...
saying the movement has gone too far in this context is the same as blaming islam for suicide bombings. there are some that co-opt the movement and tarnish what it is about. it doesn't mean the movement itself is to blame.
I would say sometimes it has gone too far. I don't think it's ok that people get hanged out by media just because someone has accused someone for something. It seems to have been like a witch hunt at times.
Finally a voice of reason...
saying the movement has gone too far in this context is the same as blaming islam for suicide bombings. there are some that co-opt the movement and tarnish what it is about. it doesn't mean the movement itself is to blame.
Is it really guaranteed that no one has been wrongly accused? We've had people taken their own life's because of accusations that's actually never been tested in trial, people who has been judged before they got a chance to defend themselves. I'm all for women's right but I think no one should be judged unjust. I'm just saying, let it be handled in a proper way.
Comments
-EV 8/14/93
My wife doesn’t have a meetoo story either. So why would I be thinking that she needs a voice? To say what? That she’s never had one of these experiences so y’all need to calm down?
So yes, their voices and (lack of) stories are Absolutely irrelevant. What relevance would they have? “Act like us and men won’t treat you like garbage?”
And don’t forget, Much of this is a workplace issue. When my 65 year old male co-worker told my 30-year old female co-worker that her body makes him hard...what advice would the virtuous women of your family have been able to give her so that didn’t happen? I suppose it would be clothing-related.
And by the way, not knowing anything about all these people you mention, I’d lay good money that at least one of them has a story.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
It probably put her at greater risk, but she would have rather been stabbed to death with her own knife than be someone's victim.
It was hard not to insert "lol" through that, because it amuses me. Part of her charm lol
-EV 8/14/93
“Where there is shouting, there is no true knowledge.”
Leonardo da Vinci
Better?
It just came off as a joke making light of sexual assault because people take it seriously.
Finally a voice of reason...
What I was talking about is, going to a man's house or inviting him into your own after a few dates is a pretty risky thing to do.
Getting blackout drunk is a pretty risky thing to do for many reasons, sexual assault is surely one of them.
Fooling around with someone that you don't trust well enough to go ahead and have sex with carries a significant risk.
Should women be free to do these perfectly acceptable (IMO) things?? Of course they should, but the risk is real and the more extreme factions of the #metoo movement is trying to eliminate that from the dialogue.
I just can't imagine being a woman and having to worry about this bullshit in day to day life.
"maybe I shouldn't have that next drink, that guy over there is creepin' on me"
"I'd better put a lid on this, someone might spike it and rape me"
"can I go for a walk down there? there might be someone hiding in wait"
men take for granted the amazing freedom we have to walk around every minute of every day without fear of anything, really. especially in canada (little fear of getting shot).
although I don't gather from my wife that she holds this fear (which sometimes actually bothers me), I'm sure many do. and that must SUCK.
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93
how about instead of "what were you thinking?" we say "what was the criminal thinking?"
-EV 8/14/93
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
-EV 8/14/93
"if a boy is teasing your daughter, don't tell her it's because he likes her. don't start her off teaching her that harassment is equal to love"
-EV 8/14/93
We've had people taken their own life's because of accusations that's actually never been tested in trial, people who has been judged before they got a chance to defend themselves. I'm all for women's right but I think no one should be judged unjust.
I'm just saying, let it be handled in a proper way.