$15 minimum wage

tempo_n_groove

Bentleyspop said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

Tipping: it's kind of strange and confusing custom, isn't it?  I do OK with the math but some people have difficulty with it.  And there is no set percentage or pre- or post-tax standard.  Some say 15%, some say 20%.  Some say before tax, some say after.  Seems to me it would be a whole lot easier if people were paid a decent wage for the work they do and they either perform well enough to maintain their job, or very well enough to be promoted, or poorly enough to be let go. 

I'm kidding (sort of) when I say this, but I think this is yet another example of how left brained people like to manipulate how the world is run.  But then I'm a bit more right brained, so I could be full of water color, stream of consciousness and guitar feedback.

Completely agree.
Not only is how much we tip not a standard across the board as you pointed out, but who and why we tip doesn’t make sense to me. And I’m not clear on even when is tipping expected. Do I tip the restaurant that has me order at the counter and call my name when it’s ready? They ask me for a tip when I place my order.
We tip taxis, food industry, tour guides, hotel staff and many many others. But I doubt anyone tips their dr when they make a life-saving diagnosis, or a cop or fireman that risks his life to save yours.
As a teacher I’ve never once been tipped, butnparents sure expect me to use my own personal time to tutor that kids (which I often do) that would cost $50 through an average company. But I did have a parent complain to admin that I was not available at 5:30 on a Friday (school got out at 3:20). 
Tipping makes no sense to me. Don’t get me wrong, I tip what I believe is expected, I just don’t get the logic behind it.

You're  right teachers  don't  get tipped.

But I have seen for myself how at holiday time and the end of the year, teachers at a Boulder Valley
 K-8 get upwards of a $1000+ in gift cards from REI, Target, Starbucks, etc. from their students/families.
 That's an extra 2 grand a year plus. Not a 15-20% gratuity but still a tidy little bonus for the teachers.

Here in NY it is customary too tip everyone or so it seems...

Postman, fedex guy, garbage man.  Especially the garbage man.  You tip them and it is a game changer!!!  They also don't forget is you are cheap.

cincybearcat

tempo_n_groove said:

Bentleyspop said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

Tipping: it's kind of strange and confusing custom, isn't it?  I do OK with the math but some people have difficulty with it.  And there is no set percentage or pre- or post-tax standard.  Some say 15%, some say 20%.  Some say before tax, some say after.  Seems to me it would be a whole lot easier if people were paid a decent wage for the work they do and they either perform well enough to maintain their job, or very well enough to be promoted, or poorly enough to be let go. 

I'm kidding (sort of) when I say this, but I think this is yet another example of how left brained people like to manipulate how the world is run.  But then I'm a bit more right brained, so I could be full of water color, stream of consciousness and guitar feedback.

Completely agree.
Not only is how much we tip not a standard across the board as you pointed out, but who and why we tip doesn’t make sense to me. And I’m not clear on even when is tipping expected. Do I tip the restaurant that has me order at the counter and call my name when it’s ready? They ask me for a tip when I place my order.
We tip taxis, food industry, tour guides, hotel staff and many many others. But I doubt anyone tips their dr when they make a life-saving diagnosis, or a cop or fireman that risks his life to save yours.
As a teacher I’ve never once been tipped, butnparents sure expect me to use my own personal time to tutor that kids (which I often do) that would cost $50 through an average company. But I did have a parent complain to admin that I was not available at 5:30 on a Friday (school got out at 3:20). 
Tipping makes no sense to me. Don’t get me wrong, I tip what I believe is expected, I just don’t get the logic behind it.

You're  right teachers  don't  get tipped.

But I have seen for myself how at holiday time and the end of the year, teachers at a Boulder Valley
 K-8 get upwards of a $1000+ in gift cards from REI, Target, Starbucks, etc. from their students/families.
 That's an extra 2 grand a year plus. Not a 15-20% gratuity but still a tidy little bonus for the teachers.

Here in NY it is customary too tip everyone or so it seems...

Postman, fedex guy, garbage man.  Especially the garbage man.  You tip them and it is a game changer!!!  They also don't forget is you are cheap.

Super annoying. 

HesCalledDyer

I usually tip a minimum of $5 or 20% - whichever is higher - on the total bill including tax.  The waiter's or waitress' or bartender's tips also get taxed on their dinky $2.11/hour paycheck by the government.  If taxation is theft, then I think it's only fair to make it up to the person being robbed.

mickeyrat

cincybearcat said:

my2hands said:

speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  

Automation still is profitable regardless of wage.

mickeyrat

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

I'm not going to bad mouth anyone for using an automated bank teller or automated grocery check out but I don't.  A few times, tellers at my bank encouraged me to use the auto teller (I'm guessing they were being instructed to say that).  I told them, "I'd rather deal with a real person, you.  Plus, if I use the auto teller, I'm helping your job to become obsolete.  You don't want that, do you?"  They know me well enough to ask anymore.  Same in the grocery store.  It's a local business with good, friendly local employees.  I'm not happy that the owners put in auto check out lines.  I don't sue them. 

I always use automated checkouts and atms, etc. mostly because the people doing those jobs before made me really want a machine to do it instead. 

and you are paying more for less anyway. automated use should garner lower prices for those who use them.

went to get a half gallon of breyers ice cream last week. paid the same or more for a quart and a half instead.

cincybearcat

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

my2hands said:

speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  

Automation still is profitable regardless of wage.

How so?  

mickeyrat

cincybearcat said:

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

my2hands said:

speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  

Automation still is profitable regardless of wage.

How so?  

overtime the tech itself is cheaper for a start as it scales up and is proven capable.

15 an hr is in a select few places. here in ohio mcdonalds already has auto in all places in the store. grill, fries, drinks, now ordering.

minimum here remains 7.25 BUT they do pay more to get and keep people. think I recall seeing 10 or so. So not being forced into a higher wage is still implementing automation.

RoleModelsinBlood31

unsung said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

I pay all my restaurant staff $12/hr to start, servers, bussers, kitchen, hostess, all. I have a few who have been with me for over 5 years, they get $1 raise a year, no more no less.  I don’t offer any benefits at all though, which really sucks, but I’ve been looking into
doing it.  Then we pool all tips and I installed new pos systems a few months ago that prompt guests to add a tip or for the check at the table it prints out what 10/15/20% equates to.  We also have an incentive plan where I use stats and comp figures to determine a gross sales goal for the month, and if we reach it we split all the extra equally among the staff.  It’s a hard number to reach, but that’s the point- it’s an incentive for them to do their best and we’ve hit it 4 times in the last few years so they all got a big chunk of extra cash.  My staff hasn’t been happier, tips have gone up probably 40%.  The longer tenured folks are making almost 20/hour to do a pretty damn easy job.  It’s worked out great- when I decided to pay 12 to start though it was after getting sick and tired of shitty employees and high turnover.  I have less staff who are more qualified now- I downsized from 40 or so total to 25 or so now.

so we upgraded technology, let go 1/3 of my total employees, added some incentives and paid a lot more per hour and things are smooth.

I've found the tip calc is often wrong.  Have you ever checked yours?

I haven’t! I’m going to check it out today.  The POS is made by Square and so far the thing is fantastic, but I’ll check it out to see, thanks!

PJ_Soul

unsung said:

PJ_Soul said:

Minimum wage should be based on local economics only. Each local government should be determining it within their city/municipal lines, and they should HAVE to base it on a set cost of living calculation that is determined and enforced by the provincial (or state) government, and based on local economic statistics. That is really the only truly fair system that I can think of.

I agree.

Now what if it was set to $1/hr?  Or none at all?

I don't know why you're asking that.... Why would it be $1/hr or none at all?

PJ_Soul

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

my2hands said:

cincybearcat said:

my2hands said:

speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  

Automation is coming no matter what, in many forms, faster than most think... eventually it will be the more affordable option no matter how low wages are

I don't get paid to drive my car, but that will be automated soon enough

I doubt it. ... I was told back in the 70's I'd have my own personnel jet pack ... I'm still waiting.

Oh yeah? Who told you that? A 70s authority on jet pack development?
Automation is obviously happening already and actual reality informs us that it's moving forward - it's not an opinion but a fact..... Come on now, you didn't actually have any kind of real point in that comment, right? Just a joke, yeah? 

I took the talk of jetpacks about as serious as I do driverless.  They'll never be made for the masses, they mostly appeal to lazy people or bad drivers...

 

I don't know if you're just trying to kind of troll here, or if you genuinely believe that. If the latter, you must be extremely misinformed. Why in the world would you compare the fantasy jetpack talk and the reality of driverless technology, which is currently being tested and is really happening? And why would you equate the two in any way in the first place? The two technologies have nothing to do with each other, in terms of practicality, viability, safety, corporate intent, etc, not to mention the potential roles each would have in the economy. You're fooling yourself if you think driverless technology isn't going to flourish. It is SO much cheaper for corporations in the long run, so even dismissing the insane positive impact it would have on road safety, there is no way a feasible technology that saves money for corporations won't take hold as soon as possible. And your idea about driverless technology mostly appealing to lazy people or bad drivers... well, that's just a dumb thing to say.

RoleModelsinBlood31

Jeez the tip thing got heated in here- I haven’t even read the last two pages but I should say that when a guest asks to add 10% or something to a called-in catering order for down the road but want to pay over your phone, I always make the tip off of what the pre tax total is.

as for the register question, the POS system prompts for a tip AFTER the guest has paid, and for anything under $10 it just prompts them for $1, $2 or “custom.”  For anything over, it makes the percentage based on what they already paid “pre tax.”  As for the sit down guest, the recommended %’s are printed on the check based on the pre-tax total.

cincybearcat

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

my2hands said:

speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  

Automation still is profitable regardless of wage.

How so?  

overtime the tech itself is cheaper for a start as it scales up and is proven capable.

15 an hr is in a select few places. here in ohio mcdonalds already has auto in all places in the store. grill, fries, drinks, now ordering.

minimum here remains 7.25 BUT they do pay more to get and keep people. think I recall seeing 10 or so. So not being forced into a higher wage is still implementing automation.

You do realize that when you say "overtime the tech itself is cheaper for a start as it scales up and is proven capable" means that as soon as it is cheap enough compared to the alternative (which is human...which is wages/benefits).  And, if you raise minimum wage, you make automation more affordable sooner.  

I'm not debating the need for or against higher min wage here, just the facts associated with automation being related to wages/benefits.

PJ_Soul

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

my2hands said:

cincybearcat said:

my2hands said:

speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  

Automation is coming no matter what, in many forms, faster than most think... eventually it will be the more affordable option no matter how low wages are

I don't get paid to drive my car, but that will be automated soon enough

I doubt it. ... I was told back in the 70's I'd have my own personnel jet pack ... I'm still waiting.

Oh yeah? Who told you that? A 70s authority on jet pack development?
Automation is obviously happening already and actual reality informs us that it's moving forward - it's not an opinion but a fact..... Come on now, you didn't actually have any kind of real point in that comment, right? Just a joke, yeah? 

@pjsoul

Jet suit on sale at Selfridges makes anyone into Iron Man for $592K

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/selfridges-jet-suit-iron-man-1.4753653?cmp=FB_Post_News

Uh ... teach you to laugh at me again.  It took a few decades but there here.  only 592k

Uh, yeah, everyone already knows about the novelty jet pack technologies. They've been wowing crowds with dudes flying in on jetpacks for decades at Olympics and World Fairs and shit. These kinds of things are featured as a curiosity on the news all the time. It's fun. It's also developed and presented as toys for rich people, and no one has ever once suggested any of it was being developed as a regular mode of transportation, lol. But you talk about it as though it's somehow comparable to innovation in mass transit, which is clearly ridiculous.

mcgruff10

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Jeez the tip thing got heated in here- I haven’t even read the last two pages but I should say that when a guest asks to add 10% or something to a called-in catering order for down the road but want to pay over your phone, I always make the tip off of what the pre tax total is.

as for the register question, the POS system prompts for a tip AFTER the guest has paid, and for anything under $10 it just prompts them for $1, $2 or “custom.”  For anything over, it makes the percentage based on what they already paid “pre tax.”  As for the sit down guest, the recommended %’s are printed on the check based on the pre-tax total.

I'm assuming you don't have much confidence is you system since you keep calling it a Piece of Shit.  

Meltdown99

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Jeez the tip thing got heated in here- I haven’t even read the last two pages but I should say that when a guest asks to add 10% or something to a called-in catering order for down the road but want to pay over your phone, I always make the tip off of what the pre tax total is.

as for the register question, the POS system prompts for a tip AFTER the guest has paid, and for anything under $10 it just prompts them for $1, $2 or “custom.”  For anything over, it makes the percentage based on what they already paid “pre tax.”  As for the sit down guest, the recommended %’s are printed on the check based on the pre-tax total.

Yes, things can sometimes get heated in a bit...

Meltdown99

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

my2hands said:

cincybearcat said:

my2hands said:

speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  

Automation is coming no matter what, in many forms, faster than most think... eventually it will be the more affordable option no matter how low wages are

I don't get paid to drive my car, but that will be automated soon enough

I doubt it. ... I was told back in the 70's I'd have my own personnel jet pack ... I'm still waiting.

Oh yeah? Who told you that? A 70s authority on jet pack development?
Automation is obviously happening already and actual reality informs us that it's moving forward - it's not an opinion but a fact..... Come on now, you didn't actually have any kind of real point in that comment, right? Just a joke, yeah? 

@pjsoul

Jet suit on sale at Selfridges makes anyone into Iron Man for $592K

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/selfridges-jet-suit-iron-man-1.4753653?cmp=FB_Post_News

Uh ... teach you to laugh at me again.  It took a few decades but there here.  only 592k

Uh, yeah, everyone already knows about the novelty jet pack technologies. They've been wowing crowds with dudes flying in on jetpacks for decades at Olympics and World Fairs and shit. These kinds of things are featured as a curiosity on the news all the time. It's fun. It's also developed and presented as toys for rich people, and no one has ever once suggested any of it was being developed as a regular mode of transportation, lol. But you talk about it as though it's somehow comparable to innovation in mass transit, which is clearly ridiculous.

LMFAO....

PJ_Soul

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

my2hands said:

cincybearcat said:

my2hands said:

speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  

Automation is coming no matter what, in many forms, faster than most think... eventually it will be the more affordable option no matter how low wages are

I don't get paid to drive my car, but that will be automated soon enough

I doubt it. ... I was told back in the 70's I'd have my own personnel jet pack ... I'm still waiting.

Oh yeah? Who told you that? A 70s authority on jet pack development?
Automation is obviously happening already and actual reality informs us that it's moving forward - it's not an opinion but a fact..... Come on now, you didn't actually have any kind of real point in that comment, right? Just a joke, yeah? 

@pjsoul

Jet suit on sale at Selfridges makes anyone into Iron Man for $592K

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/selfridges-jet-suit-iron-man-1.4753653?cmp=FB_Post_News

Uh ... teach you to laugh at me again.  It took a few decades but there here.  only 592k

Uh, yeah, everyone already knows about the novelty jet pack technologies. They've been wowing crowds with dudes flying in on jetpacks for decades at Olympics and World Fairs and shit. These kinds of things are featured as a curiosity on the news all the time. It's fun. It's also developed and presented as toys for rich people, and no one has ever once suggested any of it was being developed as a regular mode of transportation, lol. But you talk about it as though it's somehow comparable to innovation in mass transit, which is clearly ridiculous.

LMFAO....

What are you laughing about?

RoleModelsinBlood31

While on the driverless car thing- do you think implementation would have to be all or nothing? I mean, can you have drivers driving cars as well as automated driverless cars on the same roads?  I don’t know why the hell im asking actually but for some reason I assumed that when/if this takes effect, all cars will be driverless- just seems screwed up to have some vehicles operating with human error and others not.  

I was thinking basic timeline for this and was like well they’re still selling regular cars that last 15 years or so so it’s at least that far out...

tempo_n_groove

Don't do the tax as tip.  Some places the taxes are cheaper and the server gets cheated.

If it's good service round your bill off and times it by 2.  That should be the tip.

Example:

Bill is $138.45
Round to $140.00.

140x2= 280

Tip should be $28.00

Total is $166.28

PJ_Soul

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

While on the driverless car thing- do you think implementation would have to be all or nothing? I mean, can you have drivers driving cars as well as automated driverless cars on the same roads?  I don’t know why the hell im asking actually but for some reason I assumed that when/if this takes effect, all cars will be driverless- just seems screwed up to have some vehicles operating with human error and others not.  

I was thinking basic timeline for this and was like well they’re still selling regular cars that last 15 years or so so it’s at least that far out...

I think car manufacturers are likely to just stop making them at some point, and when that happens, driving a non-driverless car in driverless traffic may end up being impossible or even illegal. And when I'm talking about such vast changes as this, my mind is going forward decades. I don't expect a switch of 100% driverless in most of our lifetimes, but your kids are likely see it. It will be no easy feat to transition to totally driverless - the infrastructure changes needed alone will keep this from happening quickly. But it will happen IMO. It's the only logical step, frankly. It is just so much more cost efficient, so much safer, and so much cheaper for corporations. Obviously private corporations are likely to lead the charge here, because driverless transportation of goods is so much in their best interests economically. The private market will follow. Right now, the very next step is going electric, now that car manufacturers are starting to make plans to stop making gas cars.