See what the military is doing with autonomous humvees as far as computers driving in fields and woods. It’s much closer than you think as are robotic “pack” animals.
Yeah, I just don’t see it. Maybe i’ll be wrong or maybe you will...we’ll see. It would be awesome for robots to herd cattle, drive over pastures without running over cactus and getting flats, or find lost calves and bring them back to their mothers, and fix broken fences...but I’m not going to hold my breath. I’m not saying the technology will never be able to do these things, but i’m not sure how feasible it will be.
Why would computers not be able to navigate difficult terrain? They can already do that, way better than any human can. Just take a look at what robots can do now. And these are simply still in the research phase. Soon enough we'll all be like, "omg, look at how slow and clumsy that thing is, har har har." I believe that we are still in the infancy of technological innovation, and look how fucking far we've come in only 30 years - it's so crazy. And just imagine the kinds of things the military is doing behind closed doors. And North America is behind the game as far as driverless goes. Check out where Singapore is at with it - they are clearly already working towards it and starting to issue licenses and regulations to accommodate the technology in business at a fast rate. Other countries will be following suit soon enough. I'm sure the less crowded a country is, the slower it will be to pick it up. NECESSITY is the mother of invention after all. In the case of driverless, overcrowding is what will make it a necessity. Eventually being in a driver car will just mean sitting in traffic 6 hours a day. Having "control" over your machine won't seem so great when it's ruining your life. I already know people who literally spend 4 hours every single work day commuting... and yeah, it's ruining their lives.
That sucks, I can drive to work in 4 minutes. If I took the public transit it would take at least 30 minutes. There is not even close to a need for driverless cars around here “yet”, but you’re right, if it is ever a necessity, i’m sure I would change my mind. It would be great to not have to deal with taxis or Uber’s after having a few beers...
If work is close enough that you can drive in four minutes, why do you drive? Why not walk or cycle? The only reason I can think of to drive is if you need your car for work, like if you do deliveries or sales or something. I am a year-round cycle commuter and I love having that time on my bike and out of traffic, not to mention the cost savings, as PJSoul said.
I can think of lots of reasons. i lived about 4-5 minute drive from my first real job. I biked a couple times, but drove 95% of the ttime because I was tired of getting to work all sweaty since it was very hilly on the commute. This was San Diego, so weather wasn’t an issue, but it would be now. Colorado if it isn’t below freezing then there’s probably a high risk of thunderstorms. I would t even think to ask someone why they don’t bike
Walking is always a nice option when you're that close. I agree that cycling is often not a great option because many need a shower after cycling up hill.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Interesting discussion about driver-less vehicles. My own take is that (at least in America, if not some other countries) we are super addicted to driving. Why else would such a high percentage of cars have single drivers? If the government tired to ban driving, we would see a shit storm of rioting and protest like this country has never seen before. I honestly believe that.
I agree wth a 100%. The automobile culture in Canada and States is alive and welI. I myself would never give up my right to drive. However, this discussion is moot, I doubt any of us will be around to see driverless car take hold in any meaningful way.
Most of the automotive culture is centered around freedom to “hit the open road” and exploring roads less traveled. Many agricultural tasks could not be done by driverless cars. I do not foresee people giving up their driving privileges any time soon. If anything, driverless car manufacturers are going to have to adapt to sharing the road a majority of actual drivers, not the other way around.
Tell that to the GPS guided combines. Just a matter of time before agriculture is harvested via roomba or iRobot. Autonomous dexterity is improving by leaps and bounds.
There are a ton of agricultural tasks that would likely never be able to be accomplished by automated vehicles. Hell, some people still even use horses for them even though cars have been around for 100 years. Maybe once artificially intelligent robots start taking over every aspect of our lives, but does anyone really want that?
Definitely my somewhat distant Amish relative do!
Lol, maybe they will start driving cars in 2,000 years.
That would be very strange!
The fact is though, Amish farmers are still some of the most successful at what they do anywhere.
Sure, but if their communities grew and progressed like most of the rest of the world they wouldn't be. The Amish are definitely not a useful example of how technology isn't necessary.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Interesting discussion about driver-less vehicles. My own take is that (at least in America, if not some other countries) we are super addicted to driving. Why else would such a high percentage of cars have single drivers? If the government tired to ban driving, we would see a shit storm of rioting and protest like this country has never seen before. I honestly believe that.
I agree wth a 100%. The automobile culture in Canada and States is alive and welI. I myself would never give up my right to drive. However, this discussion is moot, I doubt any of us will be around to see driverless car take hold in any meaningful way.
Most of the automotive culture is centered around freedom to “hit the open road” and exploring roads less traveled. Many agricultural tasks could not be done by driverless cars. I do not foresee people giving up their driving privileges any time soon. If anything, driverless car manufacturers are going to have to adapt to sharing the road a majority of actual drivers, not the other way around.
Tell that to the GPS guided combines. Just a matter of time before agriculture is harvested via roomba or iRobot. Autonomous dexterity is improving by leaps and bounds.
There are a ton of agricultural tasks that would likely never be able to be accomplished by automated vehicles. Hell, some people still even use horses for them even though cars have been around for 100 years. Maybe once artificially intelligent robots start taking over every aspect of our lives, but does anyone really want that?
Definitely my somewhat distant Amish relative do!
Lol, maybe they will start driving cars in 2,000 years.
That would be very strange!
The fact is though, Amish farmers are still some of the most successful at what they do anywhere.
Interesting discussion about driver-less vehicles. My own take is that (at least in America, if not some other countries) we are super addicted to driving. Why else would such a high percentage of cars have single drivers? If the government tired to ban driving, we would see a shit storm of rioting and protest like this country has never seen before. I honestly believe that.
I agree wth a 100%. The automobile culture in Canada and States is alive and welI. I myself would never give up my right to drive. However, this discussion is moot, I doubt any of us will be around to see driverless car take hold in any meaningful way.
Most of the automotive culture is centered around freedom to “hit the open road” and exploring roads less traveled. Many agricultural tasks could not be done by driverless cars. I do not foresee people giving up their driving privileges any time soon. If anything, driverless car manufacturers are going to have to adapt to sharing the road a majority of actual drivers, not the other way around.
Tell that to the GPS guided combines. Just a matter of time before agriculture is harvested via roomba or iRobot. Autonomous dexterity is improving by leaps and bounds.
There are a ton of agricultural tasks that would likely never be able to be accomplished by automated vehicles. Hell, some people still even use horses for them even though cars have been around for 100 years. Maybe once artificially intelligent robots start taking over every aspect of our lives, but does anyone really want that?
Definitely my somewhat distant Amish relative do!
Lol, maybe they will start driving cars in 2,000 years.
That would be very strange!
The fact is though, Amish farmers are still some of the most successful at what they do anywhere.
And they farm without government subsidies...
How many PJ concerts do they get to see? Can we stop idolizing the Amish now that I exposed a pretty damn big flaw in their way of life?
Interesting discussion about driver-less vehicles. My own take is that (at least in America, if not some other countries) we are super addicted to driving. Why else would such a high percentage of cars have single drivers? If the government tired to ban driving, we would see a shit storm of rioting and protest like this country has never seen before. I honestly believe that.
I agree wth a 100%. The automobile culture in Canada and States is alive and welI. I myself would never give up my right to drive. However, this discussion is moot, I doubt any of us will be around to see driverless car take hold in any meaningful way.
Most of the automotive culture is centered around freedom to “hit the open road” and exploring roads less traveled. Many agricultural tasks could not be done by driverless cars. I do not foresee people giving up their driving privileges any time soon. If anything, driverless car manufacturers are going to have to adapt to sharing the road a majority of actual drivers, not the other way around.
Tell that to the GPS guided combines. Just a matter of time before agriculture is harvested via roomba or iRobot. Autonomous dexterity is improving by leaps and bounds.
There are a ton of agricultural tasks that would likely never be able to be accomplished by automated vehicles. Hell, some people still even use horses for them even though cars have been around for 100 years. Maybe once artificially intelligent robots start taking over every aspect of our lives, but does anyone really want that?
Definitely my somewhat distant Amish relative do!
Lol, maybe they will start driving cars in 2,000 years.
That would be very strange!
The fact is though, Amish farmers are still some of the most successful at what they do anywhere.
And they farm without government subsidies...
How many PJ concerts do they get to see? Can we stop idolizing the Amish now that I exposed a pretty damn big flaw in their way of life?
Ha! That's funny... but that isn't the only flaw in their way of life. Women are not at all equals in that society. Men must be obeyed at all costs.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Interesting discussion about driver-less vehicles. My own take is that (at least in America, if not some other countries) we are super addicted to driving. Why else would such a high percentage of cars have single drivers? If the government tired to ban driving, we would see a shit storm of rioting and protest like this country has never seen before. I honestly believe that.
I agree wth a 100%. The automobile culture in Canada and States is alive and welI. I myself would never give up my right to drive. However, this discussion is moot, I doubt any of us will be around to see driverless car take hold in any meaningful way.
Most of the automotive culture is centered around freedom to “hit the open road” and exploring roads less traveled. Many agricultural tasks could not be done by driverless cars. I do not foresee people giving up their driving privileges any time soon. If anything, driverless car manufacturers are going to have to adapt to sharing the road a majority of actual drivers, not the other way around.
Tell that to the GPS guided combines. Just a matter of time before agriculture is harvested via roomba or iRobot. Autonomous dexterity is improving by leaps and bounds.
There are a ton of agricultural tasks that would likely never be able to be accomplished by automated vehicles. Hell, some people still even use horses for them even though cars have been around for 100 years. Maybe once artificially intelligent robots start taking over every aspect of our lives, but does anyone really want that?
Definitely my somewhat distant Amish relative do!
Lol, maybe they will start driving cars in 2,000 years.
That would be very strange!
The fact is though, Amish farmers are still some of the most successful at what they do anywhere.
And they farm without government subsidies...
How many PJ concerts do they get to see? Can we stop idolizing the Amish now that I exposed a pretty damn big flaw in their way of life?
Ha! That's funny... but that isn't the only flaw in their way of life. Women are not at all equals in that society. Men must be obeyed at all costs.
I see only 1 flaw posted so far....kidding....kinda....now really I'm kidding.....
See what the military is doing with autonomous humvees as far as computers driving in fields and woods. It’s much closer than you think as are robotic “pack” animals.
Yeah, I just don’t see it. Maybe i’ll be wrong or maybe you will...we’ll see. It would be awesome for robots to herd cattle, drive over pastures without running over cactus and getting flats, or find lost calves and bring them back to their mothers, and fix broken fences...but I’m not going to hold my breath. I’m not saying the technology will never be able to do these things, but i’m not sure how feasible it will be.
Why would computers not be able to navigate difficult terrain? They can already do that, way better than any human can. Just take a look at what robots can do now. And these are simply still in the research phase. Soon enough we'll all be like, "omg, look at how slow and clumsy that thing is, har har har." I believe that we are still in the infancy of technological innovation, and look how fucking far we've come in only 30 years - it's so crazy. And just imagine the kinds of things the military is doing behind closed doors. And North America is behind the game as far as driverless goes. Check out where Singapore is at with it - they are clearly already working towards it and starting to issue licenses and regulations to accommodate the technology in business at a fast rate. Other countries will be following suit soon enough. I'm sure the less crowded a country is, the slower it will be to pick it up. NECESSITY is the mother of invention after all. In the case of driverless, overcrowding is what will make it a necessity. Eventually being in a driver car will just mean sitting in traffic 6 hours a day. Having "control" over your machine won't seem so great when it's ruining your life. I already know people who literally spend 4 hours every single work day commuting... and yeah, it's ruining their lives.
That sucks, I can drive to work in 4 minutes. If I took the public transit it would take at least 30 minutes. There is not even close to a need for driverless cars around here “yet”, but you’re right, if it is ever a necessity, i’m sure I would change my mind. It would be great to not have to deal with taxis or Uber’s after having a few beers...
If work is close enough that you can drive in four minutes, why do you drive? Why not walk or cycle? The only reason I can think of to drive is if you need your car for work, like if you do deliveries or sales or something. I am a year-round cycle commuter and I love having that time on my bike and out of traffic, not to mention the cost savings, as PJSoul said.
I can think of lots of reasons. i lived about 4-5 minute drive from my first real job. I biked a couple times, but drove 95% of the ttime because I was tired of getting to work all sweaty since it was very hilly on the commute. This was San Diego, so weather wasn’t an issue, but it would be now. Colorado if it isn’t below freezing then there’s probably a high risk of thunderstorms. I would t even think to ask someone why they don’t bike
You wouldn't even think to ask someone why they don't bike because you're not a cyclist. Why shouldn't I ask? It's not like it's a particularly personal issue. And I already know that PJPOWER is in Texas, not Colorado (not that there aren't a ton of cyclists in Colorado). Plus, I said "walk or cycle"; most people can walk in a lot of different types of weather, even if they don't want to cycle.
I thought about commuting by bike for years before I started. I had tons of excuses why I couldn't - it would take too long and I'm already rushed enough, I have to look professional at work so I didn't want to arrive sweaty or soaking wet from the rain, it would be too hard, it's would be too difficult on the days that I have to work at more than one site, it rains here about half the year..... I eventually decided I was sick of making excuses so I would just try it out with one day a week. After three weeks it was going so well I moved it up to two days a week, then four, then within three months to all five. I found that it doesn't really take much longer than driving would, and it is super convenient if I stop to run errands or go to the gym after work, because I don't have to find and pay for parking. Yeah, I get rained on half the year, but so what; I'm washable, and I change when I get to work. There are just tons of benefits for my physical, mental and financial health, and I'm not polluting the environment at the same time. I always encourage people to give it a try for a few days rather than just writing it off.
I probably read too much into the conversation, but the only explanations suggested for not biking were needing a truck at work or being disabled. I sort of took that as a shot at those who don’t bike by only offering those 2 reasons. Like I said, probably not meant that way. I rode a bike 8 miles to work for about a month. Had to bring a change of clothes and shower when I got there. Left earlier and got home later. Lots of reasons why it wasn’t worth it. But I tried it and learned how much of a hassle it is, unless your a personal trainer or something and can show up in work out clothes and sweaty.
See what the military is doing with autonomous humvees as far as computers driving in fields and woods. It’s much closer than you think as are robotic “pack” animals.
Yeah, I just don’t see it. Maybe i’ll be wrong or maybe you will...we’ll see. It would be awesome for robots to herd cattle, drive over pastures without running over cactus and getting flats, or find lost calves and bring them back to their mothers, and fix broken fences...but I’m not going to hold my breath. I’m not saying the technology will never be able to do these things, but i’m not sure how feasible it will be.
Why would computers not be able to navigate difficult terrain? They can already do that, way better than any human can. Just take a look at what robots can do now. And these are simply still in the research phase. Soon enough we'll all be like, "omg, look at how slow and clumsy that thing is, har har har." I believe that we are still in the infancy of technological innovation, and look how fucking far we've come in only 30 years - it's so crazy. And just imagine the kinds of things the military is doing behind closed doors. And North America is behind the game as far as driverless goes. Check out where Singapore is at with it - they are clearly already working towards it and starting to issue licenses and regulations to accommodate the technology in business at a fast rate. Other countries will be following suit soon enough. I'm sure the less crowded a country is, the slower it will be to pick it up. NECESSITY is the mother of invention after all. In the case of driverless, overcrowding is what will make it a necessity. Eventually being in a driver car will just mean sitting in traffic 6 hours a day. Having "control" over your machine won't seem so great when it's ruining your life. I already know people who literally spend 4 hours every single work day commuting... and yeah, it's ruining their lives.
That sucks, I can drive to work in 4 minutes. If I took the public transit it would take at least 30 minutes. There is not even close to a need for driverless cars around here “yet”, but you’re right, if it is ever a necessity, i’m sure I would change my mind. It would be great to not have to deal with taxis or Uber’s after having a few beers...
If work is close enough that you can drive in four minutes, why do you drive? Why not walk or cycle? The only reason I can think of to drive is if you need your car for work, like if you do deliveries or sales or something. I am a year-round cycle commuter and I love having that time on my bike and out of traffic, not to mention the cost savings, as PJSoul said.
I can think of lots of reasons. i lived about 4-5 minute drive from my first real job. I biked a couple times, but drove 95% of the ttime because I was tired of getting to work all sweaty since it was very hilly on the commute. This was San Diego, so weather wasn’t an issue, but it would be now. Colorado if it isn’t below freezing then there’s probably a high risk of thunderstorms. I would t even think to ask someone why they don’t bike
You wouldn't even think to ask someone why they don't bike because you're not a cyclist. Why shouldn't I ask? It's not like it's a particularly personal issue. And I already know that PJPOWER is in Texas, not Colorado (not that there aren't a ton of cyclists in Colorado). Plus, I said "walk or cycle"; most people can walk in a lot of different types of weather, even if they don't want to cycle.
I thought about commuting by bike for years before I started. I had tons of excuses why I couldn't - it would take too long and I'm already rushed enough, I have to look professional at work so I didn't want to arrive sweaty or soaking wet from the rain, it would be too hard, it's would be too difficult on the days that I have to work at more than one site, it rains here about half the year..... I eventually decided I was sick of making excuses so I would just try it out with one day a week. After three weeks it was going so well I moved it up to two days a week, then four, then within three months to all five. I found that it doesn't really take much longer than driving would, and it is super convenient if I stop to run errands or go to the gym after work, because I don't have to find and pay for parking. Yeah, I get rained on half the year, but so what; I'm washable, and I change when I get to work. There are just tons of benefits for my physical, mental and financial health, and I'm not polluting the environment at the same time. I always encourage people to give it a try for a few days rather than just writing it off.
I probably read too much into the conversation, but the only explanations suggested for not biking were needing a truck at work or being disabled. I sort of took that as a shot at those who don’t bike by only offering those 2 reasons. Like I said, probably not meant that way. I rode a bike 8 miles to work for about a month. Had to bring a change of clothes and shower when I got there. Left earlier and got home later. Lots of reasons why it wasn’t worth it. But I tried it and learned how much of a hassle it is, unless your a personal trainer or something and can show up in work out clothes and sweaty.
Yup, you definitely read too much into it, and btw I wasn’t the one who brought up being disabled. It was just a simple question.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Biking where I live ... you are risking your life.
I probably hear some version of this statement from at least 75% of people when they find out I am a cycle commuter. I'm going to respond generally, because I have no idea where you live and don't need to know (also cautiously, lest someone think I'm taking a shot at them).
In my experience, most people overestimate the risks with cycling and underestimate the risks with driving. Sure, you have to be alert and expect that there are asshole and/or inattentive drivers out there, but those affect you when you're driving a car, too. It's generally possible to find a reasonable cycle route to most places. Google Maps has a cycle mapping option which prioritizes quiet streets, bike lanes, etc, and there are lots of apps out there that help with route-finding, where you can get a route that is as flat as possible, or scenic, or whatever you want. I have near-misses with vehicles not infrequently, but I haven't actually been hit in over 25 years. I'm alert to what's going on around me, I never have earbuds in, I make myself very visible, have front and rear lights unless it's broad daylight, and I obey the rules of the road. Driving in a car is a risky behaviour, too. There are far fewer cycling fatalities than automobile driver or passenger fatalities per year. Yes, there are more people driving, but if you're driving then you're right out there with them.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Biking where I live ... you are risking your life.
Biking is riskier than driving wherever you might live. Unfortunately, it's the motorist's fault 90% of the time and they rarely face repercussions.
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
Biking where I live ... you are risking your life.
I probably hear some version of this statement from at least 75% of people when they find out I am a cycle commuter. I'm going to respond generally, because I have no idea where you live and don't need to know (also cautiously, lest someone think I'm taking a shot at them).
In my experience, most people overestimate the risks with cycling and underestimate the risks with driving. Sure, you have to be alert and expect that there are asshole and/or inattentive drivers out there, but those affect you when you're driving a car, too. It's generally possible to find a reasonable cycle route to most places. Google Maps has a cycle mapping option which prioritizes quiet streets, bike lanes, etc, and there are lots of apps out there that help with route-finding, where you can get a route that is as flat as possible, or scenic, or whatever you want. I have near-misses with vehicles not infrequently, but I haven't actually been hit in over 25 years. I'm alert to what's going on around me, I never have earbuds in, I make myself very visible, have front and rear lights unless it's broad daylight, and I obey the rules of the road. Driving in a car is a risky behaviour, too. There are far fewer cycling fatalities than automobile driver or passenger fatalities per year. Yes, there are more people driving, but if you're driving then you're right out there with them.
Anytime, I welcome you come to Windsor and ride the streets. You will have to take my word for it. The people drive like maniacs around here. Personally, I think the root cause of the problem is urban sprawl ... every one now a days seems to work in a different city than where they live ... so at the end of their shift, they race around getting there errands done so can get home and relax...
Nothing comes without risk, we just choose the risks we want to take (if we’re lucky enough to get a choice). Driving has risks, cycling has risks. The majority of people don’t get nearly enough exercise and this increase their risk of lots of bad outcomes. There are fewer than 100 cycling fatalities a year in Canada related to road accidents/MVAs. That’s many times lower than the rate of deaths due to cardiac issues, diabetes, stroke, and the like. I choose to take the small risk of a road accident, because I get so many benefits. If a lot more people did the same, the roads would be safer.
I’m including a link to Map My Ride for Windsor. This app helps you find good cycle routes pretty much anywhere.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
As a cyclist myself, I've talked to many a person around here with the opinion that we belong on the sidewalk and if they every catch a cyclist on the road, they make it a point to barely miss hitting us or not miss at all. I really don't understand it. You don't go derbying other cars on the road, or motorcyclists. What is the beef with pedal cycling that you feel the need & desire to run us off the road, hit & injure, or worse kill us?
Anyway, not sure how minimum wage evolved into this, but there's my input on one of the reasons why cyclists don't cycle to work.
As a cyclist myself, I've talked to many a person around here with the opinion that we belong on the sidewalk and if they every catch a cyclist on the road, they make it a point to barely miss hitting us or not miss at all. I really don't understand it. You don't go derbying other cars on the road, or motorcyclists. What is the beef with pedal cycling that you feel the need & desire to run us off the road, hit & injure, or worse kill us?
Anyway, not sure how minimum wage evolved into this, but there's my input on one of the reasons why cyclists don't cycle to work.
That completely sucks. I’ve never had anyone tell me that. I’m sure they all consider themselves good drivers, too.
The discussion got here via automation replacing jobs to driverless cars to driving to ..... Thread integrity - cycling is much cheaper than driving!
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
As a cyclist myself, I've talked to many a person around here with the opinion that we belong on the sidewalk and if they every catch a cyclist on the road, they make it a point to barely miss hitting us or not miss at all. I really don't understand it. You don't go derbying other cars on the road, or motorcyclists. What is the beef with pedal cycling that you feel the need & desire to run us off the road, hit & injure, or worse kill us?
Anyway, not sure how minimum wage evolved into this, but there's my input on one of the reasons why cyclists don't cycle to work.
That's terrible... it kind of proves that cars and bicycles don't mix very well, which means all cities need to really make an effort to develop dedicated bike lane infrastructure.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,687
Regarding some of the above comments about the Amish:
I think they are an excellent example of why technology isn't always necessary. I'm not anti-technology, but I think we rely on it more than is good for our health. Technology for communications, medical needs, etc are very helpful. But who is more physically and mentally healthy overall- people who drive or ride in motorized vehicles everywhere, who sit at a desk behind a computer to work, who have few skills requiring physical labor, who eat mass produced food from packages, cans or restaurants, or the Amish who do the opposite of all that?
They don't need a minimum wage. They cooperate. If someone looses a barn, the whole community comes together to build a new barn. They are interdependent. Most of society is not. Most of us are relatively selfish and look out mostly for our own needs. We mostly only working together for "our team", but those allegiances are weak and ever changing.
Amish women do play a different role in their societies than ours. It's not one I would subscribe to because I grew up in a more modern, equal rights society. But I would not so quickly dismiss how theirs works. Women are highly esteemed in their society and have specific, strong rolls. Maybe at least skim this article before passing judgement:
I'm half-Amish so, yes, I do get rather defensive of my heritage. But I also believe that we should not criticize other cultures without a good understanding of how they work. People like to poke fun at the Amish and many times, those jokes are blatantly racist and based on hearsay or preconceived notions. So yes, I am defensive on the subject even though I live a thoroughly modern life myself. My father who was born 100% Amish became Aviation Machinists Mate in WWII and later became an aeronautical engineer for United Air Lines. But he still honored his heritage.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I have almost nothing against the Amish whatsoever, just that thing about basing gender roles on what the Bible says. I COMPLETELY disagree with your watering down of the inequality women live under in the Amish world Brian. I'm not arguing that they aren't esteemed in a way - I am already well aware of the gender roles in Amish society - but at the end of the day that is the go-to excuse used to defend female inequality in religious cultures that are ruled by men. But many things about Amish culture are quite nice and I respect their choice to live separate from modern society - I understand the appeal. My only point was that using the Amish as an example for the rest of society to follow in terms of farming practices with the lack of advanced technology is pretty much pointless, all things considered.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Regarding some of the above comments about the Amish:
I think they are an excellent example of why technology isn't always necessary. I'm not anti-technology, but I think we rely on it more than is good for our health. Technology for communications, medical needs, etc are very helpful. But who is more physically and mentally healthy overall- people who drive or ride in motorized vehicles everywhere, who sit at a desk behind a computer to work, who have few skills requiring physical labor, who eat mass produced food from packages, cans or restaurants, or the Amish who do the opposite of all that?
They don't need a minimum wage. They cooperate. If someone looses a barn, the whole community comes together to build a new barn. They are interdependent. Most of society is not. Most of us are relatively selfish and look out mostly for our own needs. We mostly only working together for "our team", but those allegiances are weak and ever changing.
Amish women do play a different role in their societies than ours. It's not one I would subscribe to because I grew up in a more modern, equal rights society. But I would not so quickly dismiss how theirs works. Women are highly esteemed in their society and have specific, strong rolls. Maybe at least skim this article before passing judgement:
I'm half-Amish so, yes, I do get rather defensive of my heritage. But I also believe that we should not criticize other cultures without a good understanding of how they work. People like to poke fun at the Amish and many times, those jokes are blatantly racist and based on hearsay or preconceived notions. So yes, I am defensive on the subject even though I live a thoroughly modern life myself. My father who was born 100% Amish became Aviation Machinists Mate in WWII and later became an aeronautical engineer for United Air Lines. But he still honored his heritage.
If you are finding fault with the Amish way of life ... then people just might nit picking. I admire their independence upon themselves and each other. They are a strong community...
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I rode a bike 8 miles to work for about a month. Had to bring a change of clothes and shower when I got there. Left earlier and got home later. Lots of reasons why it wasn’t worth it. But I tried it and learned how much of a hassle it is, unless your a personal trainer or something and can show up in work out clothes and sweaty.
I probably hear some version of this statement from at least 75% of people when they find out I am a cycle commuter. I'm going to respond generally, because I have no idea where you live and don't need to know (also cautiously, lest someone think I'm taking a shot at them).
In my experience, most people overestimate the risks with cycling and underestimate the risks with driving. Sure, you have to be alert and expect that there are asshole and/or inattentive drivers out there, but those affect you when you're driving a car, too. It's generally possible to find a reasonable cycle route to most places. Google Maps has a cycle mapping option which prioritizes quiet streets, bike lanes, etc, and there are lots of apps out there that help with route-finding, where you can get a route that is as flat as possible, or scenic, or whatever you want. I have near-misses with vehicles not infrequently, but I haven't actually been hit in over 25 years. I'm alert to what's going on around me, I never have earbuds in, I make myself very visible, have front and rear lights unless it's broad daylight, and I obey the rules of the road. Driving in a car is a risky behaviour, too. There are far fewer cycling fatalities than automobile driver or passenger fatalities per year. Yes, there are more people driving, but if you're driving then you're right out there with them.
Anytime, I welcome you come to Windsor and ride the streets. You will have to take my word for it. The people drive like maniacs around here. Personally, I think the root cause of the problem is urban sprawl ... every one now a days seems to work in a different city than where they live ... so at the end of their shift, they race around getting there errands done so can get home and relax...
I’m including a link to Map My Ride for Windsor. This app helps you find good cycle routes pretty much anywhere.
The discussion got here via automation replacing jobs to driverless cars to driving to ..... Thread integrity - cycling is much cheaper than driving!
But many things about Amish culture are quite nice and I respect their choice to live separate from modern society - I understand the appeal. My only point was that using the Amish as an example for the rest of society to follow in terms of farming practices with the lack of advanced technology is pretty much pointless, all things considered.