$15 minimum wage

Spiritual_Chaos

Why can other countries have minimum wages and also face automation - but not the US?

brianlux

I'm not going to bad mouth anyone for using an automated bank teller or automated grocery check out but I don't.  A few times, tellers at my bank encouraged me to use the auto teller (I'm guessing they were being instructed to say that).  I told them, "I'd rather deal with a real person, you.  Plus, if I use the auto teller, I'm helping your job to become obsolete.  You don't want that, do you?"  They know me well enough to ask anymore.  Same in the grocery store.  It's a local business with good, friendly local employees.  I'm not happy that the owners put in auto check out lines.  I don't sue them. 

cincybearcat

brianlux said:

I'm not going to bad mouth anyone for using an automated bank teller or automated grocery check out but I don't.  A few times, tellers at my bank encouraged me to use the auto teller (I'm guessing they were being instructed to say that).  I told them, "I'd rather deal with a real person, you.  Plus, if I use the auto teller, I'm helping your job to become obsolete.  You don't want that, do you?"  They know me well enough to ask anymore.  Same in the grocery store.  It's a local business with good, friendly local employees.  I'm not happy that the owners put in auto check out lines.  I don't sue them. 

I always use automated checkouts and atms, etc. mostly because the people doing those jobs before made me really want a machine to do it instead. 

brianlux

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

I'm not going to bad mouth anyone for using an automated bank teller or automated grocery check out but I don't.  A few times, tellers at my bank encouraged me to use the auto teller (I'm guessing they were being instructed to say that).  I told them, "I'd rather deal with a real person, you.  Plus, if I use the auto teller, I'm helping your job to become obsolete.  You don't want that, do you?"  They know me well enough to ask anymore.  Same in the grocery store.  It's a local business with good, friendly local employees.  I'm not happy that the owners put in auto check out lines.  I don't sue them. 

I always use automated checkouts and atms, etc. mostly because the people doing those jobs before made me really want a machine to do it instead. 

Sign of the times?  I think generally people working in banks, grocery stores, restaurants, etc. were friendlier because life was slower paced, less stressful.  You know, back when we went to the store in one of these:

cincybearcat

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

I'm not going to bad mouth anyone for using an automated bank teller or automated grocery check out but I don't.  A few times, tellers at my bank encouraged me to use the auto teller (I'm guessing they were being instructed to say that).  I told them, "I'd rather deal with a real person, you.  Plus, if I use the auto teller, I'm helping your job to become obsolete.  You don't want that, do you?"  They know me well enough to ask anymore.  Same in the grocery store.  It's a local business with good, friendly local employees.  I'm not happy that the owners put in auto check out lines.  I don't sue them. 

I always use automated checkouts and atms, etc. mostly because the people doing those jobs before made me really want a machine to do it instead. 

Sign of the times?  I think generally people working in banks, grocery stores, restaurants, etc. were friendlier because life was slower paced, less stressful.  You know, back when we went to the store in one of these:

Now they are just dumb. And have no interest in customer service.

thsts not entirely fair there are some very nice smart people doing these jobs....but not many

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

I'm not going to bad mouth anyone for using an automated bank teller or automated grocery check out but I don't.  A few times, tellers at my bank encouraged me to use the auto teller (I'm guessing they were being instructed to say that).  I told them, "I'd rather deal with a real person, you.  Plus, if I use the auto teller, I'm helping your job to become obsolete.  You don't want that, do you?"  They know me well enough to ask anymore.  Same in the grocery store.  It's a local business with good, friendly local employees.  I'm not happy that the owners put in auto check out lines.  I don't sue them. 

I agree, but since minimum wage went to 14/hour in Ontario stores have cut back on staff.  Unfortunately if I'm in a hurry I go to the automatic check outs...

Meltdown99

Minimum wage should be set by the federal government and increases in minimum wage should trigger an increase in seniors pensions and military personnel pay.  Allow for all cities, no matter the size, the ability to adjust up wards within reason.

RoleModelsinBlood31

I pay all my restaurant staff $12/hr to start, servers, bussers, kitchen, hostess, all. I have a few who have been with me for over 5 years, they get $1 raise a year, no more no less.  I don’t offer any benefits at all though, which really sucks, but I’ve been looking into
doing it.  Then we pool all tips and I installed new pos systems a few months ago that prompt guests to add a tip or for the check at the table it prints out what 10/15/20% equates to.  We also have an incentive plan where I use stats and comp figures to determine a gross sales goal for the month, and if we reach it we split all the extra equally among the staff.  It’s a hard number to reach, but that’s the point- it’s an incentive for them to do their best and we’ve hit it 4 times in the last few years so they all got a big chunk of extra cash.  My staff hasn’t been happier, tips have gone up probably 40%.  The longer tenured folks are making almost 20/hour to do a pretty damn easy job.  It’s worked out great- when I decided to pay 12 to start though it was after getting sick and tired of shitty employees and high turnover.  I have less staff who are more qualified now- I downsized from 40 or so total to 25 or so now.

so we upgraded technology, let go 1/3 of my total employees, added some incentives and paid a lot more per hour and things are smooth.

brianlux

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

I pay all my restaurant staff $12/hr to start, servers, bussers, kitchen, hostess, all. I have a few who have been with me for over 5 years, they get $1 raise a year, no more no less.  I don’t offer any benefits at all though, which really sucks, but I’ve been looking into
doing it.  Then we pool all tips and I installed new pos systems a few months ago that prompt guests to add a tip or for the check at the table it prints out what 10/15/20% equates to.  We also have an incentive plan where I use stats and comp figures to determine a gross sales goal for the month, and if we reach it we split all the extra equally among the staff.  It’s a hard number to reach, but that’s the point- it’s an incentive for them to do their best and we’ve hit it 4 times in the last few years so they all got a big chunk of extra cash.  My staff hasn’t been happier, tips have gone up probably 40%.  The longer tenured folks are making almost 20/hour to do a pretty damn easy job.  It’s worked out great- when I decided to pay 12 to start though it was after getting sick and tired of shitty employees and high turnover.  I have less staff who are more qualified now- I downsized from 40 or so total to 25 or so now.

so we upgraded technology, let go 1/3 of my total employees, added some incentives and paid a lot more per hour and things are smooth.

All sound good, RMB, only I'm a bit perplexed by the "to do a pretty damn easy job" part.  I worked as a short-order cook for a little while in a small restaurant in downtown San Francisco in around 1972.  I made about $9 an hour in today's money  and after I left you could have offered me $25 an hour in today's money  and I would have said NO WAY!  Hell of a stressful job!

mace1229

my2hands said:

Meltdown99 said:

So only right leaning business  people want automation ... got ya.

Yeah, sure, that's what I said

Lol, read it again 

Automation is a talking point being used to discredit minimum wage increases... its been floated out and some people are running with it, I've seen the same argument against minimum wage increases in a few places now.

Automation definitely would be on the rise without higher minimum wage. But higher minimum wage definitely speeds it up and forces businesses to do it faster. To claim it’s just a made up defense isn’t accurate.

unsung

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

I pay all my restaurant staff $12/hr to start, servers, bussers, kitchen, hostess, all. I have a few who have been with me for over 5 years, they get $1 raise a year, no more no less.  I don’t offer any benefits at all though, which really sucks, but I’ve been looking into
doing it.  Then we pool all tips and I installed new pos systems a few months ago that prompt guests to add a tip or for the check at the table it prints out what 10/15/20% equates to.  We also have an incentive plan where I use stats and comp figures to determine a gross sales goal for the month, and if we reach it we split all the extra equally among the staff.  It’s a hard number to reach, but that’s the point- it’s an incentive for them to do their best and we’ve hit it 4 times in the last few years so they all got a big chunk of extra cash.  My staff hasn’t been happier, tips have gone up probably 40%.  The longer tenured folks are making almost 20/hour to do a pretty damn easy job.  It’s worked out great- when I decided to pay 12 to start though it was after getting sick and tired of shitty employees and high turnover.  I have less staff who are more qualified now- I downsized from 40 or so total to 25 or so now.

so we upgraded technology, let go 1/3 of my total employees, added some incentives and paid a lot more per hour and things are smooth.

I've found the tip calc is often wrong.  Have you ever checked yours?

Meltdown99

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

my2hands said:

cincybearcat said:

my2hands said:

speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  

Automation is coming no matter what, in many forms, faster than most think... eventually it will be the more affordable option no matter how low wages are

I don't get paid to drive my car, but that will be automated soon enough

I doubt it. ... I was told back in the 70's I'd have my own personnel jet pack ... I'm still waiting.

Oh yeah? Who told you that? A 70s authority on jet pack development?
Automation is obviously happening already and actual reality informs us that it's moving forward - it's not an opinion but a fact..... Come on now, you didn't actually have any kind of real point in that comment, right? Just a joke, yeah? 

@pjsoul

Jet suit on sale at Selfridges makes anyone into Iron Man for $592K

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/selfridges-jet-suit-iron-man-1.4753653?cmp=FB_Post_News

Uh ... teach you to laugh at me again.  It took a few decades but there here.  only 592k

Gtilley8

unsung said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

I pay all my restaurant staff $12/hr to start, servers, bussers, kitchen, hostess, all. I have a few who have been with me for over 5 years, they get $1 raise a year, no more no less.  I don’t offer any benefits at all though, which really sucks, but I’ve been looking into
doing it.  Then we pool all tips and I installed new pos systems a few months ago that prompt guests to add a tip or for the check at the table it prints out what 10/15/20% equates to.  We also have an incentive plan where I use stats and comp figures to determine a gross sales goal for the month, and if we reach it we split all the extra equally among the staff.  It’s a hard number to reach, but that’s the point- it’s an incentive for them to do their best and we’ve hit it 4 times in the last few years so they all got a big chunk of extra cash.  My staff hasn’t been happier, tips have gone up probably 40%.  The longer tenured folks are making almost 20/hour to do a pretty damn easy job.  It’s worked out great- when I decided to pay 12 to start though it was after getting sick and tired of shitty employees and high turnover.  I have less staff who are more qualified now- I downsized from 40 or so total to 25 or so now.

so we upgraded technology, let go 1/3 of my total employees, added some incentives and paid a lot more per hour and things are smooth.

I've found the tip calc is often wrong.  Have you ever checked yours?

How about some examples and facts?  Are you saying that a computer program is getting a 15/20/25% tip wrong after calculating the total bill?  That'd be the first simple math problem I've ever seen a computer or calculator get wrong.... Ever.  I wrote an app just for that purpose about 5 years ago, as a matter of fact.  It's never been wrong.  

unsung

Since you asked so nicely...

The tip should be based on the pre tax subtotal and not the post tax final total.

I often find that the calcs provided are after tax.  You don't tip the tax.

brianlux

unsung said:

Since you asked so nicely...

The tip should be based on the pre tax subtotal and not the post tax final total.

I often find that the calcs provided are after tax.  You don't tip the tax.

Exactly.   Our local tax used to be such that all one had to do was double the tax on the receipt to get the exact standard tip amount.  Made it easy  Taxes are up such that it is no longer so (unless you are being very generous with the tip*.) 

*That should generate some anti-tax posts. 

oftenreading

brianlux said:

unsung said:

Since you asked so nicely...

The tip should be based on the pre tax subtotal and not the post tax final total.

I often find that the calcs provided are after tax.  You don't tip the tax.

Exactly.   Our local tax used to be such that all one had to do was double the tax on the receipt to get the exact standard tip amount.  Made it easy  Taxes are up such that it is no longer so (unless you are being very generous with the tip*.) 

*That should generate some anti-tax posts. 

I always calculate the tip on the full bill, unless the service has been bad or rude. I know how hard food service staff work and how badly they can be treated, and not just by the customers but by the restaurant managers and owners, too. They don't get paid enough, and I believe that I shouldn't be eating out at a restaurant unless I'm prepared to pay a good tip. If I can't afford that, then I shouldn't eat there. 

oftenreading

I also tip a higher percentage when I'm eating out at low-cost restaurants. I like a little Mexican place with cheap prices. The staff work hard and cheerfully but if I tipped only 20% they would get a pittance from me. My tip is usually about 50% of the bill, and still inexpensive and worth it. I get great service.

Gtilley8

unsung said:

Since you asked so nicely...

The tip should be based on the pre tax subtotal and not the post tax final total.

I often find that the calcs provided are after tax.  You don't tip the tax.

If that's really your argument, you're an idiot.  Also, if you're not tipping on the total bill, you're a cheap ass.  That's really a sad argument to make.  

Also, you didn't address a computer getting math wrong.  You addressed the input.  If you're not smart enough to input the total minus tax (cheap), then you shouldn't be worrying about any of this to begin with.  

Brian - we've gone back and forth before, and I really try to respect your opinion.  I'm not going to argue without you on this.  But I'll say, when you start agreeing with the most ignorant poster in this fanclub, you're on the wrong side.  

Meltdown99

In Ontario with new 14/hour minimum I've spoken to many people now who say the forgo tipping.  

brianlux

Gtilley8 said:

unsung said:

Since you asked so nicely...

The tip should be based on the pre tax subtotal and not the post tax final total.

I often find that the calcs provided are after tax.  You don't tip the tax.

If that's really your argument, you're an idiot.  Also, if you're not tipping on the total bill, you're a cheap ass.  That's really a sad argument to make.  

Also, you didn't address a computer getting math wrong.  You addressed the input.  If you're not smart enough to input the total minus tax (cheap), then you shouldn't be worrying about any of this to begin with.  

Brian - we've gone back and forth before, and I really try to respect your opinion.  I'm not going to argue without you on this.  But I'll say, when you start agreeing with the most ignorant poster in this fanclub, you're on the wrong side.  

I thought we were talking about what is considered a "standard tip" amount.  Personally, I'm a high end tipper.  Maybe I should have made that clear.  I know how hard restaurant employees work. I know most are underpaid restaurant workers are and if they give good service, they deserve a good tip.  If I get really bad service and the server has attitude, they get a low tip.  If I get mediocre service with little friendliness, I  tip standard because anything else would be rude. If I get good service, I give more than the basic tip and if I get great service, I give generously.  The other thing I do, because I work (literally) on Main Street, is talk up good eateries in our area to our bookstore customers.  The Bookery is a source of some of the best free restaurant advertising in Placerville.  We really support our better restaurants, big time.

As for taking sides, I'm on the planet's side.  Earth first.