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$15 minimum wage

flywallyflyflywallyfly Posts: 1,453
in A Moving Train

Who didnt see this coming? This is what happens when government intervenes in the market. I guess we can just pay them all a living wage until we run out of everyone's money.


"As minimum wage levels approach or surpass $15 nationwide, restaurant customers expecting to be greeted by a smiling face will instead be welcomed by a glowing LED screen.

As of 2020, self-service ordering kiosks will be implemented at all U.S. McDonald’s locations. Other chains, including fast-casual brands like Panera and casual-dining brands like Chili's, have already embraced this trend. Some restaurant concepts have even automated the food-preparation process; earlier this year, NBC News profiled "Flippy," a robot hamburger flipper. "


http://https//www.forbes.com/sites/edrensi/2018/07/11/mcdonalds-says-goodbye-cashiers-hello-kiosks/#14e24b436f14
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Comments

  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,446
    Yup it's not immigrants stealing jobs....it's technology making humans in those jobs obsolete.  It will continue for sure. 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    All 14 dollar minimum wage did in Ontario was make everything far more expensive for those of us on fixed incomes...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,035
    flywallyfly said:

    Who didnt see this coming? This is what happens when government intervenes in the market. I guess we can just pay them all a living wage until we run out of everyone's money.


    "As minimum wage levels approach or surpass $15 nationwide, restaurant customers expecting to be greeted by a smiling face will instead be welcomed by a glowing LED screen.

    As of 2020, self-service ordering kiosks will be implemented at all U.S. McDonald’s locations. Other chains, including fast-casual brands like Panera and casual-dining brands like Chili's, have already embraced this trend. Some restaurant concepts have even automated the food-preparation process; earlier this year, NBC News profiled "Flippy," a robot hamburger flipper. "


    http://https//www.forbes.com/sites/edrensi/2018/07/11/mcdonalds-says-goodbye-cashiers-hello-kiosks/#14e24b436f14
    It’s more the screen generation than $15 an hour minimum wage. Why tell a person 3 times what you want only to have them fuck it up anyway? This way, if you don’t get what you ordered, chances are you’ll have only yourself to blame.

    You should be more concerned with record corporate profits, record low unemployment and wages that aren’t keeping up with inflation despite being told that the Team Trump Treason tax cuts and amnesty would result in higher wages for the working stiff. Do you really think corporations will do right by their wage earners?
     
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    And more stores are installing automated checkouts...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • flywallyflyflywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    flywallyfly said:

    Who didnt see this coming? This is what happens when government intervenes in the market. I guess we can just pay them all a living wage until we run out of everyone's money.


    "As minimum wage levels approach or surpass $15 nationwide, restaurant customers expecting to be greeted by a smiling face will instead be welcomed by a glowing LED screen.

    As of 2020, self-service ordering kiosks will be implemented at all U.S. McDonald’s locations. Other chains, including fast-casual brands like Panera and casual-dining brands like Chili's, have already embraced this trend. Some restaurant concepts have even automated the food-preparation process; earlier this year, NBC News profiled "Flippy," a robot hamburger flipper. "


    http://https//www.forbes.com/sites/edrensi/2018/07/11/mcdonalds-says-goodbye-cashiers-hello-kiosks/#14e24b436f14
    It’s more the screen generation than $15 an hour minimum wage. Why tell a person 3 times what you want only to have them fuck it up anyway? This way, if you don’t get what you ordered, chances are you’ll have only yourself to blame.

    You should be more concerned with record corporate profits, record low unemployment and wages that aren’t keeping up with inflation despite being told that the Team Trump Treason tax cuts and amnesty would result in higher wages for the working stiff. Do you really think corporations will do right by their wage earners?
     
    I'm more concerned that activists that have no knowledge of economics create and enforce laws that ultimately result in higher unemployment for the people in our country that really have no other options for employment. 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,035
    flywallyfly said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    flywallyfly said:

    Who didnt see this coming? This is what happens when government intervenes in the market. I guess we can just pay them all a living wage until we run out of everyone's money.


    "As minimum wage levels approach or surpass $15 nationwide, restaurant customers expecting to be greeted by a smiling face will instead be welcomed by a glowing LED screen.

    As of 2020, self-service ordering kiosks will be implemented at all U.S. McDonald’s locations. Other chains, including fast-casual brands like Panera and casual-dining brands like Chili's, have already embraced this trend. Some restaurant concepts have even automated the food-preparation process; earlier this year, NBC News profiled "Flippy," a robot hamburger flipper. "


    http://https//www.forbes.com/sites/edrensi/2018/07/11/mcdonalds-says-goodbye-cashiers-hello-kiosks/#14e24b436f14
    It’s more the screen generation than $15 an hour minimum wage. Why tell a person 3 times what you want only to have them fuck it up anyway? This way, if you don’t get what you ordered, chances are you’ll have only yourself to blame.

    You should be more concerned with record corporate profits, record low unemployment and wages that aren’t keeping up with inflation despite being told that the Team Trump Treason tax cuts and amnesty would result in higher wages for the working stiff. Do you really think corporations will do right by their wage earners?
     
    I'm more concerned that activists that have no knowledge of economics create and enforce laws that ultimately result in higher unemployment for the people in our country that really have no other options for employment. 
    They can go work on the coal mines. Or for carrier. After moving to Mexico. I would blame the failure to educate, train and invest in our populace to keep pace with technological changes. It’s been happening since the beginning of employment.
     
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    flywallyfly said:

    Who didnt see this coming? This is what happens when government intervenes in the market. I guess we can just pay them all a living wage until we run out of everyone's money.


    "As minimum wage levels approach or surpass $15 nationwide, restaurant customers expecting to be greeted by a smiling face will instead be welcomed by a glowing LED screen.

    As of 2020, self-service ordering kiosks will be implemented at all U.S. McDonald’s locations. Other chains, including fast-casual brands like Panera and casual-dining brands like Chili's, have already embraced this trend. Some restaurant concepts have even automated the food-preparation process; earlier this year, NBC News profiled "Flippy," a robot hamburger flipper. "


    http://https//www.forbes.com/sites/edrensi/2018/07/11/mcdonalds-says-goodbye-cashiers-hello-kiosks/#14e24b436f14
    Excellent - so we're in agreement then?  Universal Basic Income!
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    edited July 2018

    minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

    nice try though

    Post edited by my2hands on
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,042
    A straight across the board minimum wage proposition is a classic example of limited, uncreative, wall eyed thinking.   It boggles my mind that some much more reasonable factors are not considered--  all of which should be geared toward providing a living wage for all full-time main breadwinner workers.  Two such considerations immediately come to my mind:

    Scaling living wages to the cost of living in different areas.  $15 an hours is not a living wage in San Francisco.  It is a living wage in Placerville, California.  A nationwide minimum wage makes absolutely no sense.

    Why not have different minimum wages for full-time workers who are the main bread winners for a family and a lower minimum wage for people like the elderly who are trying to supplement their meager post-career income, or for students who are trying to help pay for their schooling, or for high school students who just want to gain some work experience?  My wife hires just those kinds of people at her bookstore (I'm my own boss and I get paid really damn poorly any more but I'm also semi-retired, so it's my choice).  She cannot afford to pay a part-time employee who cleans books $15 an hour.  She and here business partner will either have to work harder and longer (not a good choice as they are both over 65) or decrease the quality of their inventory (not a good choice in a type of business that is struggling enough as it is).  Small businesses should be able to hire part-time workers like students or retirees  without having to pay $15 an hour. 

    Small minded, short-term and illogical thinking.  Way to go, America.


    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,446
    my2hands said:

    speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

    it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

    Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  
    hippiemom = goodness
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited July 2018
    Minimum wage should be based on local economics only. Each local government should be determining it within their city/municipal lines, and they should HAVE to base it on a set cost of living calculation that is determined and enforced by the provincial (or state) government, and based on local economic statistics. That is really the only truly fair system that I can think of.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,042
    PJ_Soul said:
    Minimum wage should be based on local economics only. Each local government should be determining it within their city/municipal lines, and they should HAVE to base it on a set cost of living calculation that is determined and enforced by the provincial (or state) government. That is really the only truly fair system that I can think of.
    Exactly!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited July 2018
    cincybearcat said:
    my2hands said:

    speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

    it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

    Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  
    There is not really any such thing as automation that costs more than paying wages and benefits to human workers who necessarily have hour limits though, and who have to be hired, fired, managed, etc. Not in the long run.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    cincybearcat said:
    my2hands said:

    speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

    it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

    Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  
    Automation is coming no matter what, in many forms, faster than most think... eventually it will be the more affordable option no matter how low wages are

    I don't get paid to drive my car, but that will be automated soon enough


  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,042
    I wouldn't mind more of this kind of automation:

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    my2hands said:
    cincybearcat said:
    my2hands said:

    speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

    it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

    Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  
    Automation is coming no matter what, in many forms, faster than most think... eventually it will be the more affordable option no matter how low wages are

    I don't get paid to drive my car, but that will be automated soon enough


    I doubt it. ... I was told back in the 70's I'd have my own personnel jet pack ... I'm still waiting.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    Meltdown99 said:
    my2hands said:
    cincybearcat said:
    my2hands said:

    speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

    it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

    Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  
    Automation is coming no matter what, in many forms, faster than most think... eventually it will be the more affordable option no matter how low wages are

    I don't get paid to drive my car, but that will be automated soon enough


    I doubt it. ... I was told back in the 70's I'd have my own personnel jet pack ... I'm still waiting.
    Oh yeah? Who told you that? A 70s authority on jet pack development? :lol:
    Automation is obviously happening already and actual reality informs us that it's moving forward - it's not an opinion but a fact..... Come on now, you didn't actually have any kind of real point in that comment, right? Just a joke, yeah? 
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845
    my2hands said:
    cincybearcat said:
    my2hands said:

    speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

    it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

    Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  
    Automation is coming no matter what, in many forms, faster than most think... eventually it will be the more affordable option no matter how low wages are

    I don't get paid to drive my car, but that will be automated soon enough


    Yes, automation is and was coming to a huge number of jobs, no matter what the minimum wage is.  As better systems get developed they’ll get even cheaper, and with no training necessary, no staff turnover, no sick time, no breaks, it’s inevitable. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,446
    PJ_Soul said:
    cincybearcat said:
    my2hands said:

    speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

    it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

    Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  
    There is not really any such thing as automation that costs more than paying wages and benefits to human workers who necessarily have hour limits though, and who have to be hired, fired, managed, etc. Not in the long run.
    I guess it depends on how you are looking at it. But I work for a major manufacturer and there are many projects cancelled when it doesn’t pay out vs human labor. And many that do.  You say “long run” but lots of big companies require a 3 year payback. Another way to look at it is to put in a machine, you need to identify roughly 50% if the cost in savings for every 12 month period.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,446
    my2hands said:
    cincybearcat said:
    my2hands said:

    speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

    it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

    Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  
    Automation is coming no matter what, in many forms, faster than most think... eventually it will be the more affordable option no matter how low wages are

    I don't get paid to drive my car, but that will be automated soon enough


    Well that is true for some automation. But it does take time AND humans provide flexibility as well. But yes automation is coming to basically everything.... eventually.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,042
    cincybearcat said:
    my2hands said:
    cincybearcat said:
    my2hands said:

    speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

    it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

    Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  
    Automation is coming no matter what, in many forms, faster than most think... eventually it will be the more affordable option no matter how low wages are

    I don't get paid to drive my car, but that will be automated soon enough


    Well that is true for some automation. But it does take time AND humans provide flexibility as well. But yes automation is coming to basically everything.... eventually.
    Many, that's for sure.

    Things I don't want a machine to do for me:

    -Make the music I want to listen to.
    -Write the books I want to read.
    -Create the artwork I want to admire in a museum.
    -Be my counselor should I need one again.
    -Wait on my table when I eat out.
    -Check my prostate ("Oops, sorry, I was programmed to go deep.")
    -Stand over me and try to comfort me as I'm dying.

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited July 2018
    cincybearcat said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    cincybearcat said:
    my2hands said:

    speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

    it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

    Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  
    There is not really any such thing as automation that costs more than paying wages and benefits to human workers who necessarily have hour limits though, and who have to be hired, fired, managed, etc. Not in the long run.
    I guess it depends on how you are looking at it. But I work for a major manufacturer and there are many projects cancelled when it doesn’t pay out vs human labor. And many that do.  You say “long run” but lots of big companies require a 3 year payback. Another way to look at it is to put in a machine, you need to identify roughly 50% if the cost in savings for every 12 month period.
    It's not happening overnight of course. I'm talking long term in general. The major manufacturer you work for hasn't gotten there yet because they haven't yet found the right system with the right price point, and it's likely that all of those other companies that your company has ties to haven't either. That system may not even exist yet. It is going to be more like a chain reaction thing, really. Companies will eventually be forced to switch over simply to be competitive and to jive with the rest of the industry. But it most likely will eventually. And of course that doesn't mean that zero human labour will be needed at some point. The estimates are up to 50% of the work force getting replaced by AI and/or automation eventually, over time. That is why more and more government are starting to take a truly serious look at universal income strategies.

    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,446
    Yes - and why I suggest to my 10 year old to go into electrical engineering and focus on power controls and information systems :)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,042
    cincybearcat said:
    Yes - and why I suggest to my 10 year old to go into electrical engineering and focus on power controls and information systems :)
    Good choice. 

    At one point I would have suggested to young adults or older kids to look into some kind of work in a medical field.  Right now there are about 65 million baby boomers are at near retirement age (not me, the government screwed up my DL and birth certificate which indicate I'm almost 67 when I'm actually  only 35).  When they get into their 70's, 80's and older, they will be flooding the health care field.  Will automation take care of their needs? 

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    PJ_Soul said:
    Minimum wage should be based on local economics only. Each local government should be determining it within their city/municipal lines, and they should HAVE to base it on a set cost of living calculation that is determined and enforced by the provincial (or state) government, and based on local economic statistics. That is really the only truly fair system that I can think of.
    I agree.

    Now what if it was set to $1/hr?  Or none at all?
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845
    unsung said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Minimum wage should be based on local economics only. Each local government should be determining it within their city/municipal lines, and they should HAVE to base it on a set cost of living calculation that is determined and enforced by the provincial (or state) government, and based on local economic statistics. That is really the only truly fair system that I can think of.
    I agree.

    Now what if it was set to $1/hr?  Or none at all?

    I guess that would be fine, if local economics were such that everything was free.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,035
    oftenreading said:
    unsung said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Minimum wage should be based on local economics only. Each local government should be determining it within their city/municipal lines, and they should HAVE to base it on a set cost of living calculation that is determined and enforced by the provincial (or state) government, and based on local economic statistics. That is really the only truly fair system that I can think of.
    I agree.

    Now what if it was set to $1/hr?  Or none at all?

    I guess that would be fine, if local economics were such that everything was free.
    And if you were comfortable trading your daughter for a goat.
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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,367
    edited July 2018
    brianlux said:
    A straight across the board minimum wage proposition is a classic example of limited, uncreative, wall eyed thinking.   It boggles my mind that some much more reasonable factors are not considered--  all of which should be geared toward providing a living wage for all full-time main breadwinner workers.  Two such considerations immediately come to my mind:

    Scaling living wages to the cost of living in different areas.  $15 an hours is not a living wage in San Francisco.  It is a living wage in Placerville, California.  A nationwide minimum wage makes absolutely no sense.

    Why not have different minimum wages for full-time workers who are the main bread winners for a family and a lower minimum wage for people like the elderly who are trying to supplement their meager post-career income, or for students who are trying to help pay for their schooling, or for high school students who just want to gain some work experience?  My wife hires just those kinds of people at her bookstore (I'm my own boss and I get paid really damn poorly any more but I'm also semi-retired, so it's my choice).  She cannot afford to pay a part-time employee who cleans books $15 an hour.  She and here business partner will either have to work harder and longer (not a good choice as they are both over 65) or decrease the quality of their inventory (not a good choice in a type of business that is struggling enough as it is).  Small businesses should be able to hire part-time workers like students or retirees  without having to pay $15 an hour. 

    Small minded, short-term and illogical thinking.  Way to go, America.


    I agree, except it seems impossible to enforce the second, different minimum wages for “breadwinners.”
    in theory that sounds great, but wouldn’t everyone just hire 2 part-time employees at $10/hr instead of 1 “breadwinner” at $15? That would just be pricing the breadwinners out of a job.
    i like that idea, because just about everyone against a higher min wage, like myself, just can’t picture paying some part time high school student $15/hr to flip burgers and mop floors. So the idea of different tiers for mimimum wage sounds great to me, I just can’t imagine it working out well.
    i guess it may work if there was a required ratio of employees, have to hire 1 “breadwinner” for every 3 or 4 part timers or something.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    PJ_Soul said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    my2hands said:
    cincybearcat said:
    my2hands said:

    speaking of no knowledge of economics.... minimum wage, no matter the amount, has zero to do with automation and AI

    it would be happening if labor was $1 per hour, nice try though

    Ummmmm how does it have nothing to do with wage? There comes a point where the cost of automation becomes affordable compared to the cost of wages. If wages are lower than the cost of automation, companies won’t install machines.  
    Automation is coming no matter what, in many forms, faster than most think... eventually it will be the more affordable option no matter how low wages are

    I don't get paid to drive my car, but that will be automated soon enough


    I doubt it. ... I was told back in the 70's I'd have my own personnel jet pack ... I'm still waiting.
    Oh yeah? Who told you that? A 70s authority on jet pack development? :lol:
    Automation is obviously happening already and actual reality informs us that it's moving forward - it's not an opinion but a fact..... Come on now, you didn't actually have any kind of real point in that comment, right? Just a joke, yeah? 
    I took the talk of jetpacks about as serious as I do driverless.  They'll never be made for the masses, they mostly appeal to lazy people or bad drivers...

     
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    If you are living in one of these ridiculously expensive cities only making 12-15 an hour, maybe they could be offered assistance to re-locate to more affordable locations...$15 an hour in some of these large cities barely pays your bills...
    Give Peas A Chance…
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