North Korea

cincybearcat

my2hands said:

Alexander Keith's is delicious stuff!!!

"Fuck a Heineken, grab me a Keiths!"

Swill.  But there are great Canadian beers....just not that many.

dignin

North Korea's Media Tout Trump Concessions You Won't Find In The Joint Statement

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/13/619464740/north-koreas-media-touts-trump-concessions-you-won-t-find-in-the-joint-statement

And this is why you prepare and have someone there to take notes. Kim (or honest Trump for that matter) could claim anything now. But don't worry, Trump has the best brain, memory and negotiating skills. Sleep well everybody.

my2hands

dignin said:

North Korea's Media Tout Trump Concessions You Won't Find In The Joint Statement

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/13/619464740/north-koreas-media-touts-trump-concessions-you-won-t-find-in-the-joint-statement

And this is why you prepare and have someone there to take notes. Kim (or honest Trump for that matter) could claim anything now. But don't worry, Trump has the best brain, memory and negotiating skills. Sleep well everybody.

https://youtu.be/sSSNG2YtXzs

Thirty Bills Unpaid

dignin said:

North Korea's Media Tout Trump Concessions You Won't Find In The Joint Statement

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/13/619464740/north-koreas-media-touts-trump-concessions-you-won-t-find-in-the-joint-statement

And this is why you prepare and have someone there to take notes. Kim (or honest Trump for that matter) could claim anything now. But don't worry, Trump has the best brain, memory and negotiating skills. Sleep well everybody.

Yah.

Trumpsters are clinging to this event as something productive and positive. Of course... it's way too early to judge this meeting and it's level of productiveness given we need to wait and see what comes of it... but Trumpsters are desperate for something/anything that legitimizes Trump as a leader.

I'll credit Trump for helping stabilize the region once it's stabilized, but not at Trump's words.

mcgruff10

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dignin said:

North Korea's Media Tout Trump Concessions You Won't Find In The Joint Statement

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/13/619464740/north-koreas-media-touts-trump-concessions-you-won-t-find-in-the-joint-statement

And this is why you prepare and have someone there to take notes. Kim (or honest Trump for that matter) could claim anything now. But don't worry, Trump has the best brain, memory and negotiating skills. Sleep well everybody.

Yah.

Trumpsters are clinging to this event as something productive and positive. Of course... it's way too early to judge this meeting and it's level of productiveness given we need to wait and see what comes of it... but Trumpsters are desperate for something/anything that legitimizes Trump as a leader.

I'll credit Trump for helping stabilize the region once it's stabilized, but not at Trump's words.

Anytime you can sit down two leaders who are at war is a positive step in my opinion.  I don't know what will come out of it but it was nice to see them meet face to face as opposed to on twitter.
I also thought that canceling war-games in the spring was a great concession because tensions would always increase during that time.  

Kat

Rachel Maddow laid it out pretty well last night when she showed the border that North Korea shares with Russia on the north. Russia also wants the military exercises to end in that region.

 putin's boy made it so.

Can someone/anyone in the government get the russians out of my government before putin moves into the White House?

Halifax2TheMax

mcgruff10 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dignin said:

North Korea's Media Tout Trump Concessions You Won't Find In The Joint Statement

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/13/619464740/north-koreas-media-touts-trump-concessions-you-won-t-find-in-the-joint-statement

And this is why you prepare and have someone there to take notes. Kim (or honest Trump for that matter) could claim anything now. But don't worry, Trump has the best brain, memory and negotiating skills. Sleep well everybody.

Yah.

Trumpsters are clinging to this event as something productive and positive. Of course... it's way too early to judge this meeting and it's level of productiveness given we need to wait and see what comes of it... but Trumpsters are desperate for something/anything that legitimizes Trump as a leader.

I'll credit Trump for helping stabilize the region once it's stabilized, but not at Trump's words.

Anytime you can sit down two leaders who are at war is a positive step in my opinion.  I don't know what will come out of it but it was nice to see them meet face to face as opposed to on twitter.
I also thought that canceling war-games in the spring was a great concession because tensions would always increase during that time.  

What if those “concessions” were for exclusive rights to build “nice” hotels in NK? Would you feel all warm and fuzzy about the pomp and circumstances?

Halifax2TheMax

Goebbels would be proud.

Reactions to a new era of American diplomacy

Leaders the world over spoke of the powerful significance of President Trump's summit with Kim Jong Un this week. South Korean President Moon Jae-in called the meeting "historic," adding that "we will never go back to the past again." According to the New York Post, people broke into cheers and applause at a train station in Seoul as President Trump shook Chairman Kim's hand on TV.

Here at home, U.S. officials look forward to a new chapter. "For decades, American policy toward North Korea has failed, and I commend @POTUS for not accepting the status quo," Speaker of the House Paul Ryan (R-WI) tweeted. "This an historic opportunity to end the Korean War [and] get North Korea to give up their weapons and missiles," Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) said.

Security expert Christian Whiton explains what the President's critics miss about the summit. In the past, U.S. administrations gave away too much upfront. "This time, President Trump and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo have insisted that North Korea undertake actual disarmament before real financial concessions or even sanctions relief," Whiton writes. Read more.

mcgruff10

Halifax2TheMax said:

mcgruff10 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dignin said:

North Korea's Media Tout Trump Concessions You Won't Find In The Joint Statement

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/13/619464740/north-koreas-media-touts-trump-concessions-you-won-t-find-in-the-joint-statement

And this is why you prepare and have someone there to take notes. Kim (or honest Trump for that matter) could claim anything now. But don't worry, Trump has the best brain, memory and negotiating skills. Sleep well everybody.

Yah.

Trumpsters are clinging to this event as something productive and positive. Of course... it's way too early to judge this meeting and it's level of productiveness given we need to wait and see what comes of it... but Trumpsters are desperate for something/anything that legitimizes Trump as a leader.

I'll credit Trump for helping stabilize the region once it's stabilized, but not at Trump's words.

Anytime you can sit down two leaders who are at war is a positive step in my opinion.  I don't know what will come out of it but it was nice to see them meet face to face as opposed to on twitter.
I also thought that canceling war-games in the spring was a great concession because tensions would always increase during that time.  

What if those “concessions” were for exclusive rights to build “nice” hotels in NK? Would you feel all warm and fuzzy about the pomp and circumstances?

If it means that North Korea opens its borders and treats its citizens a hell of a lot better than I am all for it.  If it is only to build hotels then the obvious answer is no.

OnWis97

Halifax2TheMax said:

And just like that, Team Trump Treason declares his meeting a complete success, time to move on to the next crisis. Hey guess what? While you were sleeping there’s no longer an opioid crisis! Problem solved! Suckers.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/13/politics/trump-north-korea-nuclear-threat/index.html

He totally should totally have done this in front of a "Mission Accomplished" banner.

Spiritual_Chaos

https://choice.npr.org/index.html?origin=https://www.npr.org/2018/06/13/619464740/north-koreas-media-touts-trump-concessions-you-won-t-find-in-the-joint-statement

North Korean state media have reported that President Trump made a raft of concessions to Kim Jong Un that were not stated in the two countries' joint statement, following a first-ever meeting of the leaders in Singapore.

While the U.S. has yet to confirm the contents of the reports, they suggest that the two leaders reached more verbal agreements than they put on paper, and made public.

The Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) reported that Kim and Trump agreed that "it is important to abide by the principle of step-by-step and simultaneous action in achieving peace, stability and denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula."

That would go against what the Trump administration has said so far. 

mcgruff10

Spiritual_Chaos said:

https://choice.npr.org/index.html?origin=https://www.npr.org/2018/06/13/619464740/north-koreas-media-touts-trump-concessions-you-won-t-find-in-the-joint-statement

North Korean state media have reported that President Trump made a raft of concessions to Kim Jong Un that were not stated in the two countries' joint statement, following a first-ever meeting of the leaders in Singapore.

While the U.S. has yet to confirm the contents of the reports, they suggest that the two leaders reached more verbal agreements than they put on paper, and made public.

The Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) reported that Kim and Trump agreed that "it is important to abide by the principle of step-by-step and simultaneous action in achieving peace, stability and denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula."

That would go against what the Trump administration has said so far. 

It all seems pretty positive to me.

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

https://choice.npr.org/index.html?origin=https://www.npr.org/2018/06/13/619464740/north-koreas-media-touts-trump-concessions-you-won-t-find-in-the-joint-statement

North Korean state media have reported that President Trump made a raft of concessions to Kim Jong Un that were not stated in the two countries' joint statement, following a first-ever meeting of the leaders in Singapore.

While the U.S. has yet to confirm the contents of the reports, they suggest that the two leaders reached more verbal agreements than they put on paper, and made public.

The Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) reported that Kim and Trump agreed that "it is important to abide by the principle of step-by-step and simultaneous action in achieving peace, stability and denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula."

That would go against what the Trump administration has said so far. 

It all seems pretty positive to me.

Do you really think that NK is going to denuclearize then? To me it just seems like Trump went and told Un that he can continue to do whatever the fuck he wants and America won't bother them anymore and will remove all the sanctions. So basically, he just said "okay, we give up, you win. Carry on." ... Definitely seems pretty positive for Kim Jong Un, yep. What do people expect from him now? To turn into a good guy with nukes instead of be a bad guy with nukes? Can a good guy with nukes keep killing and torturing and starving his people? Is that now an irrelevant factor? Sorry for all the questions... I'm just not quite clear on what exactly is supposed to have been achieved here. Is "Hey, don't nuke us, kay?" - "Oh, alright." enough to satisfy everyone? Were people really that worried about Un nuking America? Is that all that everyone was going for here? For Un to vaguely act like he isn't going to nuke America, and for the petty Twitter bickering to stop?

HughFreakingDillon

I can't wait for him to open The Fallout Hotel, complete with Dictator Suites, next year. 

Halifax2TheMax

HughFreakingDillon said:

I can't wait for him to open The Fallout Hotel, complete with Dictator Suites, next year. 

I think you meant the Golden Shower suites?

HughFreakingDillon

HAHA, those too. 

jeffbr

I'm sure this time they really, really, really, really, really, really, really mean it.

All the Times North Korea Promised to Denuclearize

Some North Korea observers did strike hopeful notes; both McKeon and Baker think the summit was an important first step, however symbolic. And it was certainly an improvement over the overt nuclear threats of a few months ago. But this script has been written before, and always with the same ending. See for yourself (and for a more thorough dissection, check out the Arms Control Association’s comprehensive timeline):

What: Treaty on the Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons
When: December 12, 1985
What happened? North Korea signs onto this landmark treaty—190 countries are currently members—but makes its membership contingent on the US withdrawing nuclear weapons from South Korea, which doesn’t happen for several years, buying North Korea time to build its nuclear capabilities.

What: Joint Declaration of the Denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula
When: January 20, 1992
What happened? North and South Korea sign an agreement that “the South and the North shall not test, manufacture, produce, receive, possess, store, deploy or use nuclear weapons.” In February of 1993, suspicion that North Korea is violating its commitments creates tension over inspections, leading to further delays.

What: Agreed Framework
When: October 21, 1994
What happened? North Korea promises to stop plutonium production in exchange for much-needed supplies. This mostly holds up until 2002, when the US discovers that North Korea has secretly been enriching uranium for nuclear weapons. By the end of that year, Kim Jong Il kicks out all international inspectors. On January 10, 2003, North Korea officially withdraws from the 1985 nonproliferation treaty.

What: Six-Party Talks
When: September 19, 2005
What happened? After several rounds of intense talks with South Korea, China, Japan, the US, and Russia, North Korea pledges to abandon “all nuclear weapons and existing nuclear programs.” The US and North Korea can’t agree on verification details, though, leading to increased hostilities.

What: Six-Party Talks (Again)
When: October 3, 2007
What happened? In a joint statement, North Korea agrees to declare all of its nuclear programs, shut down those affiliated with its weapons program, and not to transfer “nuclear materials, technology, or know-how.” Once again, stakeholders can’t agree on a verification process.

What: US Agreement
When: February 29, 2012
What happened? North Korea agrees to suspend nuclear tests and uranium enrichment, and said it will allow inspectors, in exchange for food aid. Two weeks later, North Korea announces plans to launch a satellite, which immediately unwinds the deal.

Halifax2TheMax

jeffbr said:

I'm sure this time they really, really, really, really, really, really, really mean it.

All the Times North Korea Promised to Denuclearize

Some North Korea observers did strike hopeful notes; both McKeon and Baker think the summit was an important first step, however symbolic. And it was certainly an improvement over the overt nuclear threats of a few months ago. But this script has been written before, and always with the same ending. See for yourself (and for a more thorough dissection, check out the Arms Control Association’s comprehensive timeline):

What: Treaty on the Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons
When: December 12, 1985
What happened? North Korea signs onto this landmark treaty—190 countries are currently members—but makes its membership contingent on the US withdrawing nuclear weapons from South Korea, which doesn’t happen for several years, buying North Korea time to build its nuclear capabilities.

What: Joint Declaration of the Denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula
When: January 20, 1992
What happened? North and South Korea sign an agreement that “the South and the North shall not test, manufacture, produce, receive, possess, store, deploy or use nuclear weapons.” In February of 1993, suspicion that North Korea is violating its commitments creates tension over inspections, leading to further delays.

What: Agreed Framework
When: October 21, 1994
What happened? North Korea promises to stop plutonium production in exchange for much-needed supplies. This mostly holds up until 2002, when the US discovers that North Korea has secretly been enriching uranium for nuclear weapons. By the end of that year, Kim Jong Il kicks out all international inspectors. On January 10, 2003, North Korea officially withdraws from the 1985 nonproliferation treaty.

What: Six-Party Talks
When: September 19, 2005
What happened? After several rounds of intense talks with South Korea, China, Japan, the US, and Russia, North Korea pledges to abandon “all nuclear weapons and existing nuclear programs.” The US and North Korea can’t agree on verification details, though, leading to increased hostilities.

What: Six-Party Talks (Again)
When: October 3, 2007
What happened? In a joint statement, North Korea agrees to declare all of its nuclear programs, shut down those affiliated with its weapons program, and not to transfer “nuclear materials, technology, or know-how.” Once again, stakeholders can’t agree on a verification process.

What: US Agreement
When: February 29, 2012
What happened? North Korea agrees to suspend nuclear tests and uranium enrichment, and said it will allow inspectors, in exchange for food aid. Two weeks later, North Korea announces plans to launch a satellite, which immediately unwinds the deal.

When did Bush declare them the third axis of evil with Iran and Iraq? Anyone think the invasion of Iraq in 2003 contributed to the cheating or pursuit? 

mcgruff10

Halifax2TheMax said:

jeffbr said:

I'm sure this time they really, really, really, really, really, really, really mean it.

All the Times North Korea Promised to Denuclearize

Some North Korea observers did strike hopeful notes; both McKeon and Baker think the summit was an important first step, however symbolic. And it was certainly an improvement over the overt nuclear threats of a few months ago. But this script has been written before, and always with the same ending. See for yourself (and for a more thorough dissection, check out the Arms Control Association’s comprehensive timeline):

What: Treaty on the Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons
When: December 12, 1985
What happened? North Korea signs onto this landmark treaty—190 countries are currently members—but makes its membership contingent on the US withdrawing nuclear weapons from South Korea, which doesn’t happen for several years, buying North Korea time to build its nuclear capabilities.

What: Joint Declaration of the Denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula
When: January 20, 1992
What happened? North and South Korea sign an agreement that “the South and the North shall not test, manufacture, produce, receive, possess, store, deploy or use nuclear weapons.” In February of 1993, suspicion that North Korea is violating its commitments creates tension over inspections, leading to further delays.

What: Agreed Framework
When: October 21, 1994
What happened? North Korea promises to stop plutonium production in exchange for much-needed supplies. This mostly holds up until 2002, when the US discovers that North Korea has secretly been enriching uranium for nuclear weapons. By the end of that year, Kim Jong Il kicks out all international inspectors. On January 10, 2003, North Korea officially withdraws from the 1985 nonproliferation treaty.

What: Six-Party Talks
When: September 19, 2005
What happened? After several rounds of intense talks with South Korea, China, Japan, the US, and Russia, North Korea pledges to abandon “all nuclear weapons and existing nuclear programs.” The US and North Korea can’t agree on verification details, though, leading to increased hostilities.

What: Six-Party Talks (Again)
When: October 3, 2007
What happened? In a joint statement, North Korea agrees to declare all of its nuclear programs, shut down those affiliated with its weapons program, and not to transfer “nuclear materials, technology, or know-how.” Once again, stakeholders can’t agree on a verification process.

What: US Agreement
When: February 29, 2012
What happened? North Korea agrees to suspend nuclear tests and uranium enrichment, and said it will allow inspectors, in exchange for food aid. Two weeks later, North Korea announces plans to launch a satellite, which immediately unwinds the deal.

When did Bush declare them the third axis of evil with Iran and Iraq? Anyone think the invasion of Iraq in 2003 contributed to the cheating or pursuit? 

Right after 9/11 

my2hands

Very Honorable