No more war, no more hate.

mcgruff10

jeffbr said:

Well, here's another vote for FDR making one want to vomit. He was a racist asshole. His appointment of Hugo Black to the Supremes was a sure sign of that. Oh, and that little incident of rounding up American citizens and putting them in concentration camps due to the color of their skin and shape of their eyes might also be a dead giveaway. All without due process. No warrants. No trials. Fuck FDR. He destroyed a lot of lives of American citizens of Japanese ancestry and should be vilified rather than praised.

Japanese internment Camps are Definitely one of the most embarrassing events in our countries history but I wouldn’t be call fdr a psychopath. Churchill is as psycho as the guy who Killed six million Jews and waged war on three continents while killing countless of millions  and the other guy who killed over 25 million of his own people?  Come
on. 

dignin

Yeah, Churchill made some real unnecessary bombing civilian decisions. 

cincybearcat

Meltdown99 said:

tbergs said:

Meltdown99 said:

cincybearcat said:

A direct democracy would be a direct disaster. 

After-all your democracy is so great...

It may not be perfect, but do you understand the issue of a direct democracy? Would you want your country to be direct democracy?

I'd model my democracy after the Swiss, which is a mix of direct democracy.  I sure as hell think people who believe you are in a democracy because of a bunch of paper is bullshit...your democracy hides behind the right to bear arms bullshit because of a piece paper, especially when it was likely no one owned anything more powerful than a musket ... and by the time you got it loaded, you forgot why you mad and needed the gun.  

The us is 282 times the size of Switzerland. 

Im not sayin Us is perfect, far from it. But I don’t think direct democracy would work in such a large country.

RYME

i_lov_it said:

I look at a lot of the old War Footage...WW2 and the Concentration Camps for example...I just cry no Human should be treated that way...

Yes if the pictures from the concentration camps makes you sick they should,
(Have you ever seen footage from the 1936 summer Olympics closing ceremonies?  Pretty damn scary.  There is a well-done documentary about that you should look it up and watch it)
 it should make us all sick.
How about the events that took place in Syria last week?  I hope that made you sick as well. 
How about the beheadings that Isis was doing?  By the way how is that JV team Isis doing these days? 
If you don't have countries like the United States, & it's allies fighting back against these terrible tyrannical outfits, eventually they would rule the world.  Do you want that?

All the peace signs in the world aren't going to stop these Mad Men.  Being sick and puking at the site of human atrocities hasn't done a damn thing to bring about peace.
Bumper sticker politics have solved  absolutly nothing.  Slap a bumper sticker on your car, wear a t-shirt that says something cool and think you've done your part?  Does bumper sticker politics require any sacrifice or change of Lifestyle? 
What finally brought Hitler to an end?  Did somebody send him a box of chocolates and a bouquet of flowers?  Did someone flash him the peace sign?  I don't think so.
I don't like War any more than the rest,,, but if these evil regimes aren't put in their place with with strategic military force for time to time, they just get more & more embolden and do more.  If we don't do anything about a guy gassing his people what will happen?  Other fruit cakes will do the same thing, because they know nothing will be done about it. 
Extreme evil only understands one language.
I can coexist with people here who disagree with me, and we can still be buddies, but these crazy Mad Men around the world aren't going to stop because we are tired of it.

RYME

I believe that peace comes through strength & resolve, not passiveness.
Not through chanting & waving signs in the streets.

Dirtie_Frank

Switzerland is about the size of Maine. There is much more diversity and cultural difference throughout the US to compare the two.  

brianlux

benjs said:

brianlux said:

benjs said:

josevolution said:

benjs said:

Meltdown99 said:

Direct democracy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy

We need to quit electing politicians to make decision for us.  I have no problems with the idiot politicians running the day business of government, all major policy initiative's should go to the people...especially compensation packages for said idiots.

When the self-serving outnumber the selfless, when the shortsighted outnumber the longsighted, when those who desire being right over being righteous, when the blissfully ignorant outnumber the saddened aware, when the class and resource and (most importantly) education imbalances already exist - all of which have proven to be the case - direct democracy would further catalyze our destruction. And between these human traits and our irreparable (and continuing) damage to the planet and to each other, it seems our destruction is already imminent.

So basically it’s too late ? 

Unless someone can give me some logical path to changing minds of the masses, I believe so.

Maybe just one mind at a time?  I think every little thing we do to move in the right direction adds up.  Doing what makes sense is the only hope, no matter how small may seem.

Brian, I regularly force myself to shift my perspective to match yours, and then I remember a saying from a colleague... hope is not a plan. I don't see how an apathetic/misinformed/uneducated global population can have this unified paradigm shift that lets us find our common goals - all before we destroy each other and/or our planet. I don't mean to spread doom and gloom, but I'm a cold and calculated kind of person, and can't see the logic path to a long-term future.

Your logic is good Ben and/but I know you've had to have heard me quote this before but I'll  offer it again as hope as a plan:  "Hope is not the conviction that things will turn out well.  Hope is the conviction to do what makes sense no matter how things turn out." -Vaclav Havel

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

Or how  about this Brian, your congressman and senators will never pass tougher gun control laws.  Would you not like to have the option that if you got enough signatures on a petition so a binding plebiscite can be voted on by the people that puts tougher gun control laws into place?  No offence, but if you think this senators and congressman are ever going to toughen gun control, then I got a nice piece of swamp land in Alaska to sell you.  I'd have more faith in letting the general population decide, not a few politicians that are essentially bought and paid for.

I get what your saying but it would depend on whether we are talking local petition or nation and that varies as to where you live.  Where I live, a popular vote would lead to every man woman and child old enough to lift 6 to 9 pounds and pull a trigger would be armed to the teeth.

Yeah, I know, what the hell am I doing living here!?

brianlux

Dirtie_Frank said:

Switzerland is about the size of Maine. There is much more diversity and cultural difference throughout the US to compare the two.  

Good point.

Thank god for the Swiss though.  I have at least a half dozen Swiss Army knives of varying styles.  Best damn knives around! Especially the one with the cork screw.  Cheers!

josevolution

RYME said:

I believe that peace comes through strength & resolve, not passiveness.
Not through chanting & waving signs in the streets.

Really so the Vietnam war protest didn’t play a part in bringing that fiasco to an end ..

brianlux

josevolution said:

RYME said:

I believe that peace comes through strength & resolve, not passiveness.
Not through chanting & waving signs in the streets.

Really so the Vietnam war protest didn’t play a part in bringing that fiasco to an end ..

As I'm sure you know, Jose, it did indeed! 

I've mentioned this before but a great book that tells a lot about how protesters helped end the war in Vietnam is Bill Zimmerman's excellent, Troublemaker.

i_lov_it

dignin said:

Yeah, Churchill made some real unnecessary bombing civilian decisions. 

Dresden comes too mind...

i_lov_it

Then we have that Psychopath Truman dropping two Atomic Bombs on Japan Murdering Thousands of innocent people... As with the title of Thread...if we can just elect Good Hearted people so we can have no more war then that would be great...

RYME

Holy cow.

mace1229

i_lov_it said:

Then we have that Psychopath Truman dropping two Atomic Bombs on Japan Murdering Thousands of innocent people... As with the title of Thread...if we can just elect Good Hearted people so we can have no more war then that would be great...

I know many will disagree, but those bombs saved both American and Japanese lives.
Japan was such a weird culture who worship their emperor as a god, and they were not only prepared to die, but was a very high honor to do so. This is a culture that would rather die than surrender. Just look at the thousands at Okinawa that commited suicide, including civilian women and children, that chose suicide over American defeat. They were actually training even children to fight to the death in preparation for an invasion. Countless more would have been killed with an invasion. 

lastexitlondon

This is very interesting. Good thread

i_lov_it

mace1229 said:

i_lov_it said:

Then we have that Psychopath Truman dropping two Atomic Bombs on Japan Murdering Thousands of innocent people... As with the title of Thread...if we can just elect Good Hearted people so we can have no more war then that would be great...

I know many will disagree, but those bombs saved both American and Japanese lives.
Japan was such a weird culture who worship their emperor as a god, and they were not only prepared to die, but was a very high honor to do so. This is a culture that would rather die than surrender. Just look at the thousands of Okinawan civilians, women and children, that chose suicide over American defeat. They were actually training even children to fight to the death in preparation for an invasion. Countless more would have been killed with an invasion. 

Did you interview every Japanese Person did you?...so the answer is lets just Murder as many innocent people as we can?...seriously that has the hall marks of Psychopathy...

mcgruff10

i_lov_it said:

mace1229 said:

i_lov_it said:

Then we have that Psychopath Truman dropping two Atomic Bombs on Japan Murdering Thousands of innocent people... As with the title of Thread...if we can just elect Good Hearted people so we can have no more war then that would be great...

I know many will disagree, but those bombs saved both American and Japanese lives.
Japan was such a weird culture who worship their emperor as a god, and they were not only prepared to die, but was a very high honor to do so. This is a culture that would rather die than surrender. Just look at the thousands of Okinawan civilians, women and children, that chose suicide over American defeat. They were actually training even children to fight to the death in preparation for an invasion. Countless more would have been killed with an invasion. 

Did you interview every Japanese Person did you?...so the answer is lets just Murder as many innocent people as we can?...seriously that has the hall marks of Psychopathy...

I don’t think you understand the Japanese way of fighting during world war 2. Literally four year olds and elderly were armed with pitchforks and grenades in order to defend the homeland If it was invaded. The bombs saved millions of lives on both sides. 

i_lov_it

mcgruff10 said:

i_lov_it said:

mace1229 said:

i_lov_it said:

Then we have that Psychopath Truman dropping two Atomic Bombs on Japan Murdering Thousands of innocent people... As with the title of Thread...if we can just elect Good Hearted people so we can have no more war then that would be great...

I know many will disagree, but those bombs saved both American and Japanese lives.
Japan was such a weird culture who worship their emperor as a god, and they were not only prepared to die, but was a very high honor to do so. This is a culture that would rather die than surrender. Just look at the thousands of Okinawan civilians, women and children, that chose suicide over American defeat. They were actually training even children to fight to the death in preparation for an invasion. Countless more would have been killed with an invasion. 

Did you interview every Japanese Person did you?...so the answer is lets just Murder as many innocent people as we can?...seriously that has the hall marks of Psychopathy...

I don’t think you understand the Japanese way of fighting during world war 2. Literally four year olds and elderly were armed with pitchforks and grenades in order to defend the homeland If it was invaded. The bombs saved millions of lives on both sides. 

This doesn't even make sense...

Wouldn't you defend yourself???...you do relise Kids were killed as well...

mace1229

i_lov_it said:

mace1229 said:

i_lov_it said:

Then we have that Psychopath Truman dropping two Atomic Bombs on Japan Murdering Thousands of innocent people... As with the title of Thread...if we can just elect Good Hearted people so we can have no more war then that would be great...

I know many will disagree, but those bombs saved both American and Japanese lives.
Japan was such a weird culture who worship their emperor as a god, and they were not only prepared to die, but was a very high honor to do so. This is a culture that would rather die than surrender. Just look at the thousands of Okinawan civilians, women and children, that chose suicide over American defeat. They were actually training even children to fight to the death in preparation for an invasion. Countless more would have been killed with an invasion. 

Did you interview every Japanese Person did you?...so the answer is lets just Murder as many innocent people as we can?...seriously that has the hall marks of Psychopathy...

Do I need to interview every single Japanese person to understand their history and culture? It is very well documented that they were training children, 5 and 6 year olds even, to fight off American soldiers. It is well documented they encouraged suicide in the face of defeat. It is very well documented they viewed their emperor as a god, and was a honor to die for him. As a result this was a nation that would have fought until no one was left to fight back, they would not accept surrender except in the face of something like a nuclear bomb.
I never said murder as many innocent people as we can. I just said more would have died if we didn't drop the bombs. There is a lot of evidence to back that statement up.