We are a young country that has learned to use bullying, tantrums, and violence to achieve our goals (if goals are even a factor). But there is a better way and that way is peace. And one way to look at achieving peace is through strategy. The strategy of war. That's right. This is what Sea Shepherds do to save marine life. Their actions are base firmly in Sun Tzu's Art of War AND their number one rule is DO NO HARM TO ANY HUMANS. Strategy for peace. Makes good sense to me.
no blame on France and UK who also took part in the Syrian bombings?
Until there is no religion in the world there will never be peace.
Absolutely France and UK share the responsibility.
Yes, religion is a major reason there is war. Not accepting religious differences, that is. I don't see religion ever going away. But I don't see multiple religions and peace as impossible either.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
"Try to not spook the horse."
-Neil Young
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,309
agreed, an overwhelming sense of sadness today over this......
Yes, Nami, sadness, worry, anger, frustration, and for me utter disillusionment with any hope of humanity learning how to deal with it's problems in a civilized, rational, logical manner.
And lets not forget that all this war is an assault on the planet itself. Nature take a brutal beating as well. It's not just about us.
Are we a hopelessly violent and suicidal species? Will we ever learn?
Sorry for all the negativity friends. I wish rather than just venting there was something I (all of us) could do to change the course of history and turn our direction away from self-destruction and destruction of the planet. I'm open to suggestions.
I'm also late for work. See ya'll later.
I think we are hopelessly violent. Has there ever been a time in history when all of the world leaders were willing to place peace above their own ambitions? Going back thousands of years that has never happened that I can think of. some of the worst world leaders will only be stopped when forced to, making war a necessary evil that will exist for as long as humans live on this planet.
It's hard not to agree with what you say here, Mace. The evidence is strongly in favor or it. Yet there have been periods of peace throughout human history. Many Native American tribes (not all) were at peace before European Continental Conquest and when they did have skirmished, they often involved counting coup rather than killing or injuring their rivals. I've also read that Japan had a period of peace that lasted 700 years.
My argument for peace rest on the idea that we have the intelligence to work together without warring. We have the ability to communicate world-wide and share our cultures and interests. The only thing we lack is the willingness to get along and I believe willingness comes through believing in something rather than say, "No, it will never happen." I continue to have the hope that we can achieve peace. That hope is based on doing what makes sense and it makes sense to work toward peace. Is it an uphill struggle? Yes. It the struggle worth it? I believe so. Please consider joining that effort.
No doubt that some dynasties/groups have managed to maintain peace for a prolonged period of time. I was thinking on a world, multi-national level though, it is impossible. While those Native Americans were at peace, how many wars in Europe were going on? And to be honest, how did that practice of only peace work out for them in the end. It requires 100% of the world's leaders to want peace in order for peace to exist. It takes 100% - 1 wanting peace for war to exist.
But while it is inevitable, I would agree we have a duty to not look for war. That list of wars someone posted with justified or not, many were not (or at least not worth the cost). I think we have stuck our noses in too many places for sure. But to expect only peace and not prepare for war is only inviting it.
Impossible? I don't know impossible. I don't believe in impossible.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
We are a young country that has learned to use bullying, tantrums, and violence to achieve our goals (if goals are even a factor). But there is a better way and that way is peace. And one way to look at achieving peace is through strategy. The strategy of war. That's right. This is what Sea Shepherds do to save marine life. Their actions are base firmly in Sun Tzu's Art of War AND their number one rule is DO NO HARM TO ANY HUMANS. Strategy for peace. Makes good sense to me.
no blame on France and UK who also took part in the Syrian bombings?
Until there is no religion in the world there will never be peace.
Absolutely France and UK share the responsibility.
Yes, religion is a major reason there is war. Not accepting religious differences, that is. I don't see religion ever going away. But I don't see multiple religions and peace as impossible either.
Before we remove religion can we try removing weak 'conservative' governments? I know in the UK Mrs May is looking for a distraction from the EU fiasco and increased crime from all their failed austerity. And Trump is looking to distract from Porn stars, corrupt lawyers, non-existent walls, quitting Rs, all his awful, corrupter than his lawyers, cabinet appointees, Russia, so, so many things...
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,309
We are a young country that has learned to use bullying, tantrums, and violence to achieve our goals (if goals are even a factor). But there is a better way and that way is peace. And one way to look at achieving peace is through strategy. The strategy of war. That's right. This is what Sea Shepherds do to save marine life. Their actions are base firmly in Sun Tzu's Art of War AND their number one rule is DO NO HARM TO ANY HUMANS. Strategy for peace. Makes good sense to me.
no blame on France and UK who also took part in the Syrian bombings?
Until there is no religion in the world there will never be peace.
Absolutely France and UK share the responsibility.
Yes, religion is a major reason there is war. Not accepting religious differences, that is. I don't see religion ever going away. But I don't see multiple religions and peace as impossible either.
Before we remove religion can we try removing weak 'conservative' governments? I know in the UK Mrs May is looking for a distraction from the EU fiasco and increased crime from all their failed austerity. And Trump is looking to distract from Porn stars, corrupt lawyers, non-existent walls, quitting Rs, all his awful, corrupter than his lawyers, cabinet appointees, Russia, so, so many things...
I'm not religious but I'm also not in favor of removing religion. What myths people want to believe is their business as long as they don't foist it on others or make war over it.
Now removing weak governments- that's a great idea. I would love to hear about any good, effective governments that work for the good of the people, the good of the planet and for peaceful co-existence. I don't know of such a government so I say, let's speak out for one to be created in your own country, state, province, county, or community. I know this is yet another idea that has about as much chance of happening as it likely for elephants to start flying but I also don't believe it is impossible. Well, maybe elephants flying is nearly impossible, haha!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
We are a young country that has learned to use bullying, tantrums, and violence to achieve our goals (if goals are even a factor). But there is a better way and that way is peace. And one way to look at achieving peace is through strategy. The strategy of war. That's right. This is what Sea Shepherds do to save marine life. Their actions are base firmly in Sun Tzu's Art of War AND their number one rule is DO NO HARM TO ANY HUMANS. Strategy for peace. Makes good sense to me.
no blame on France and UK who also took part in the Syrian bombings?
Until there is no religion in the world there will never be peace.
Absolutely France and UK share the responsibility.
Yes, religion is a major reason there is war. Not accepting religious differences, that is. I don't see religion ever going away. But I don't see multiple religions and peace as impossible either.
Before we remove religion can we try removing weak 'conservative' governments? I know in the UK Mrs May is looking for a distraction from the EU fiasco and increased crime from all their failed austerity. And Trump is looking to distract from Porn stars, corrupt lawyers, non-existent walls, quitting Rs, all his awful, corrupter than his lawyers, cabinet appointees, Russia, so, so many things...
I'm not religious but I'm also not in favor of removing religion. What myths people want to believe is their business as long as they don't foist it on others or make war over it.
Now removing weak governments- that's a great idea. I would love to hear about any good, effective governments that work for the good of the people, the good of the planet and for peaceful co-existence. I don't know of such a government so I say, let's speak out for one to be created in your own country, state, province, county, or community. I know this is yet another idea that has about as much chance of happening as it likely for elephants to start flying but I also don't believe it is impossible. Well, maybe elephants flying is nearly impossible, haha!
I encourage you to research a little into Switzerland.
We need to quit electing politicians to make decision for us. I have no problems with the idiot politicians running the day business of government, all major policy initiative's should go to the people...especially compensation packages for said idiots.
We need to quit electing politicians to make decision for us. I have no problems with the idiot politicians running the day business of government, all major policy initiative's should go to the people...especially compensation packages for said idiots.
When the self-serving outnumber the selfless, when the shortsighted outnumber the longsighted, when those who desire being right over being righteous, when the blissfully ignorant outnumber the saddened aware, when the class and resource and (most importantly) education imbalances already exist - all of which have proven to be the case - direct democracy would further catalyze our destruction. And between these human traits and our irreparable (and continuing) damage to the planet and to each other, it seems our destruction is already imminent.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
We need to quit electing politicians to make decision for us. I have no problems with the idiot politicians running the day business of government, all major policy initiative's should go to the people...especially compensation packages for said idiots.
When the self-serving outnumber the selfless, when the shortsighted outnumber the longsighted, when those who desire being right over being righteous, when the blissfully ignorant outnumber the saddened aware, when the class and resource and (most importantly) education imbalances already exist - all of which have proven to be the case - direct democracy would further catalyze our destruction. And between these human traits and our irreparable (and continuing) damage to the planet and to each other, it seems our destruction is already imminent.
So basically it’s too late ?
jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,309
We need to quit electing politicians to make decision for us. I have no problems with the idiot politicians running the day business of government, all major policy initiative's should go to the people...especially compensation packages for said idiots.
I read the link. It sounds like a good idea on paper and I think it might work well regionally but for a nation as large as the U.S., it seems impractical. And I think both representative or direct democracy are not likely to succeed without far greater participation and education than we see in the U.S. Our people are generally apathetic and poorly educated that way.
We need to quit electing politicians to make decision for us. I have no problems with the idiot politicians running the day business of government, all major policy initiative's should go to the people...especially compensation packages for said idiots.
When the self-serving outnumber the selfless, when the shortsighted outnumber the longsighted, when those who desire being right over being righteous, when the blissfully ignorant outnumber the saddened aware, when the class and resource and (most importantly) education imbalances already exist - all of which have proven to be the case - direct democracy would further catalyze our destruction. And between these human traits and our irreparable (and continuing) damage to the planet and to each other, it seems our destruction is already imminent.
Well said but, sorry to say Ben, rather depressing. Our best hope is that younger generations begin to understand the consequences of those destructive traits of which you speak and begin to embrace the positive ones. Yes, it's a long shot, but I believe that's our only hope.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
We need to quit electing politicians to make decision for us. I have no problems with the idiot politicians running the day business of government, all major policy initiative's should go to the people...especially compensation packages for said idiots.
When the self-serving outnumber the selfless, when the shortsighted outnumber the longsighted, when those who desire being right over being righteous, when the blissfully ignorant outnumber the saddened aware, when the class and resource and (most importantly) education imbalances already exist - all of which have proven to be the case - direct democracy would further catalyze our destruction. And between these human traits and our irreparable (and continuing) damage to the planet and to each other, it seems our destruction is already imminent.
So basically it’s too late ?
Unless someone can give me some logical path to changing minds of the masses, I believe so.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,309
We need to quit electing politicians to make decision for us. I have no problems with the idiot politicians running the day business of government, all major policy initiative's should go to the people...especially compensation packages for said idiots.
When the self-serving outnumber the selfless, when the shortsighted outnumber the longsighted, when those who desire being right over being righteous, when the blissfully ignorant outnumber the saddened aware, when the class and resource and (most importantly) education imbalances already exist - all of which have proven to be the case - direct democracy would further catalyze our destruction. And between these human traits and our irreparable (and continuing) damage to the planet and to each other, it seems our destruction is already imminent.
So basically it’s too late ?
Unless someone can give me some logical path to changing minds of the masses, I believe so.
Maybe just one mind at a time? I think every little thing we do to move in the right direction adds up. Doing what makes sense is the only hope, no matter how small may seem.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
We need to quit electing politicians to make decision for us. I have no problems with the idiot politicians running the day business of government, all major policy initiative's should go to the people...especially compensation packages for said idiots.
When the self-serving outnumber the selfless, when the shortsighted outnumber the longsighted, when those who desire being right over being righteous, when the blissfully ignorant outnumber the saddened aware, when the class and resource and (most importantly) education imbalances already exist - all of which have proven to be the case - direct democracy would further catalyze our destruction. And between these human traits and our irreparable (and continuing) damage to the planet and to each other, it seems our destruction is already imminent.
So basically it’s too late ?
Unless someone can give me some logical path to changing minds of the masses, I believe so.
Maybe just one mind at a time? I think every little thing we do to move in the right direction adds up. Doing what makes sense is the only hope, no matter how small may seem.
Brian, I regularly force myself to shift my perspective to match yours, and then I remember a saying from a colleague... hope is not a plan. I don't see how an apathetic/misinformed/uneducated global population can have this unified paradigm shift that lets us find our common goals - all before we destroy each other and/or our planet. I don't mean to spread doom and gloom, but I'm a cold and calculated kind of person, and can't see the logic path to a long-term future.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
We need to quit electing politicians to make decision for us. I have no problems with the idiot politicians running the day business of government, all major policy initiative's should go to the people...especially compensation packages for said idiots.
I read the link. It sounds like a good idea on paper and I think it might work well regionally but for a nation as large as the U.S., it seems impractical. And I think both representative or direct democracy are not likely to succeed without far greater participation and education than we see in the U.S. Our people are generally apathetic and poorly educated that way.
We need to quit electing politicians to make decision for us. I have no problems with the idiot politicians running the day business of government, all major policy initiative's should go to the people...especially compensation packages for said idiots.
When the self-serving outnumber the selfless, when the shortsighted outnumber the longsighted, when those who desire being right over being righteous, when the blissfully ignorant outnumber the saddened aware, when the class and resource and (most importantly) education imbalances already exist - all of which have proven to be the case - direct democracy would further catalyze our destruction. And between these human traits and our irreparable (and continuing) damage to the planet and to each other, it seems our destruction is already imminent.
Well said but, sorry to say Ben, rather depressing. Our best hope is that younger generations begin to understand the consequences of those destructive traits of which you speak and begin to embrace the positive ones. Yes, it's a long shot, but I believe that's our only hope.
After-all the democracy you live in and seemingly loath is working out so well for you. good luck, canada and the states are not democracies...we elect our dictators.
Or how about this Brian, your congressman and senators will never pass tougher gun control laws. Would you not like to have the option that if you got enough signatures on a petition so a binding plebiscite can be voted on by the people that puts tougher gun control laws into place? No offence, but if you think this senators and congressman are ever going to toughen gun control, then I got a nice piece of swamp land in Alaska to sell you. I'd have more faith in letting the general population decide, not a few politicians that are essentially bought and paid for.
No thanks. I've been called elitist before due to my distaste of "get out the vote" programs. The last thing I want is mobs of low-educated deplorables deciding my fate. I will take my chances with representation from someone I have vetted through research. Yeah, they may be (and probably are) bought off by some collection of special interests, but at least you have an idea of what you're getting and aren't subject to the whims of mob rule. The only way I'd be in favor of direct democracy is if there were: 1) some sort of minimum intelligence requirement verified through a short test (nothing partisan or tricky, but voters need to know something about which they voting), and 2) put a few hoops in the way of registration so that only people who care are registered to vote, not just people who simply get drivers' licenses or library cards. If the voters are actually making decisions, I want them to be voters who can breath through their nose, walk and chew gum at the same time. It's bad enough that we had a critical mass of low-information voters this time around putting Drumpf into office. Imagine if those same mouth-breathers got to directly vote on critical freedoms and liberties. Nope. Mob rule scares me more than the plutocracy we currently have. Reading the OP's link, I guess I'm more of a "semi-direct" guy. I'd rather have a balance with representative democracy on one hand, and the citizens having a say through petition and the initiative process. In my state we passed legalization of weed through a vote of the people because legislators weren't acting on the will of the people and I love that mechanism, but at the same time, there are just too many issues, some very complex, that average voters simply wouldn't be able to comprehend. I'd hate to see a budget process run by popular vote, for instance. There would be a few pet projects that would get massive support, but critical services that weren't sexy enough to capture the attention of the vast ocean of idiots would be ignored. Also, could you imagine the inundation of direct advertising for each and every issue that would come to a vote? It is sometimes overwhelming as it is to open my mailbox and see a shitload of flyers and brochures around election time. And that is for a handful of issues and candidates. Further, imagine if there were Facebook memes, Russian trolls, and fake news being propagated for every issue? If we had those things for every single decision that needed to be made it would be insanity.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
We can only start with our own children. Teach them well. The more good parents the more good children the more good people!
I agree, teach them well...I wish every parent would discourage their children from joining the military. Don't get me wrong, I have great respect. for military personnel...but militaries should only be used for defensive purposes...
It may not be perfect, but do you understand the issue of a direct democracy? Would you want your country to be direct democracy?
I'd model my democracy after the Swiss, which is a mix of direct democracy. I sure as hell think people who believe you are in a democracy because of a bunch of paper is bullshit...your democracy hides behind the right to bear arms bullshit because of a piece paper, especially when it was likely no one owned anything more powerful than a musket ... and by the time you got it loaded, you forgot why you mad and needed the gun.
It may not be perfect, but do you understand the issue of a direct democracy? Would you want your country to be direct democracy?
I'd model my democracy after the Swiss, which is a mix of direct democracy. I sure as hell think people who believe you are in a democracy because of a bunch of paper is bullshit...your democracy hides behind the right to bear arms bullshit because of a piece paper, especially when it was likely no one owned anything more powerful than a musket ... and by the time you got it loaded, you forgot why you mad and needed the gun.
I agree that there are several who use the 2nd amendment to avoid making serious change, but at the same time it is a great thing to require significant support to change existing laws and liberties. There are times when it's a boon and times when it is a blessing. It means progress may sometimes come along slower than a lot of us would like, but it also presents the opportunity for more sustained support instead of a half-assed knee jerk attempt that creates more problems and division. And to your last statement, it's not that people couldn't use their musket to kill in the heat of the moment, it just meant they only had 1 shot to get the job done.
Comments
Yes, religion is a major reason there is war. Not accepting religious differences, that is. I don't see religion ever going away. But I don't see multiple religions and peace as impossible either.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I know in the UK Mrs May is looking for a distraction from the EU fiasco and increased crime from all their failed austerity.
And Trump is looking to distract from Porn stars, corrupt lawyers, non-existent walls, quitting Rs, all his awful, corrupter than his lawyers, cabinet appointees, Russia, so, so many things...
Now removing weak governments- that's a great idea. I would love to hear about any good, effective governments that work for the good of the people, the good of the planet and for peaceful co-existence. I don't know of such a government so I say, let's speak out for one to be created in your own country, state, province, county, or community. I know this is yet another idea that has about as much chance of happening as it likely for elephants to start flying but I also don't believe it is impossible. Well, maybe elephants flying is nearly impossible, haha!
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
Direct democracy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracyWe need to quit electing politicians to make decision for us. I have no problems with the idiot politicians running the day business of government, all major policy initiative's should go to the people...especially compensation packages for said idiots.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Well said but, sorry to say Ben, rather depressing. Our best hope is that younger generations begin to understand the consequences of those destructive traits of which you speak and begin to embrace the positive ones. Yes, it's a long shot, but I believe that's our only hope.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I'd model my democracy after the Swiss, which is a mix of direct democracy. I sure as hell think people who believe you are in a democracy because of a bunch of paper is bullshit...your democracy hides behind the right to bear arms bullshit because of a piece paper, especially when it was likely no one owned anything more powerful than a musket ... and by the time you got it loaded, you forgot why you mad and needed the gun.
Why is there is still war???
have they fallen apart apart by allowing their citizens more say?
i can guarantee you their education system is superior to the US and Canada’s...