No more war, no more hate.

RYME

We definitely have a super corrupt American government on the right & on left that's for sure.  
However, I don't think American leadership (Republicans or Democrats) are carrying out human atrocities nowadays.  They have in the past, check out Andrew Jackson.
Nowadays, some are drawing red lines in the sand that get ignored, while others bomb to quickly without exhausting every effort before hand.
Yes I agree that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results = insanity.
Strategizing for peace would be great if it would work!!
I hope you don't think that I am war happy somehow, or don't take it very seriously. 
I just think sometimes unfortunately it's unavoidable.  I think this most recent strike on Syria was premature.  At the same time we can't let al-Asside to  continue gassing his people can we??
It's tough.

Peace through passiveness doesn't work any better than peace through over agressiveness ie bombing the shit out of...fill in the blank.
And as far as peace through smarts goes, these people who like to obtain power via human suffering don't give a shit how many Degrees, DDs, PhDs, & BS'es people have behind the're name.
I do agree with you on the notion that we are all sick & tired of this.  But that doesn't stop bad men from doing what they do, & when they cross that red line in the sand, something has to be done.  Simply ignoring it because we are tired of war leads to emboldened dictators, hence we can expect more of the same.
The power struggle between good and evil rages on.

brianlux

mickeyrat said:

the sad reality is, as long as at least 2 human beings walk this earth, there will be conflict.

I know what your getting at Micky but... conflict?  Sure.  I love no one on this planet more than my wife and we have occasional conflicts.  But I have yet to call an air strike on her or blast her with napalm.  We work it out- conflict resolution.

brianlux

RYME said:

We definitely have a super corrupt American government on the right & on left that's for sure.  
However, I don't think American leadership (Republicans or Democrats) are carrying out human atrocities nowadays.  They have in the past, check out Andrew Jackson.
Nowadays, some are drawing red lines in the sand that get ignored, while others bomb to quickly without exhausting every effort before hand.
Yes I agree that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results = insanity.
Strategizing for peace would be great if it would work!!
I hope you don't think that I am war happy somehow, or don't take it very seriously. 
I just think sometimes unfortunately it's unavoidable.  I think this most recent strike on Syria was premature.  At the same time we can't let al-Asside to  continue gassing his people can we??
It's tough.

Peace through passiveness doesn't work any better than peace through over agressiveness ie bombing the shit out of...fill in the blank.
And as far as peace through smarts goes, these people who like to obtain power via human suffering don't give a shit how many Degrees, DDs, PhDs, & BS'es people have behind the're name.
I do agree with you on the notion that we are all sick & tired of this.  But that doesn't stop bad men from doing what they do, & when they cross that red line in the sand, something has to be done.  Simply ignoring it because we are tired of war leads to emboldened dictators, hence we can expect more of the same.
The power struggle between good and evil rages on.

But who decides who is good and who is evil?  I have yet to see any side that is purely all good or all evil.  You don't think Americans have carried out human atrocities recently?  Oh my god- yeah we have, we surely have.  No doubt about that. 

Why do you say strategizing peace will not work when our society as a whole has not tried it.  It has worked in small ways though.  Peace activists help end the war in Vietnam.  Without them, that war would have lasted longer (read the Zimmerman book I mentioned.)

No, I don't think you are war happy. 

I don't believe a college degree is a necessity for waging peace.  But rather, commitment and a unified effort.  College degree does not always equate intelligence.  There are many brilliant people who never went far in school. 

I never ever said we should ignore evil.  Not at all.  But I don't believe evil is nullified by more evil or violence.  We have already proven that.

lastexitlondon

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

the sad reality is, as long as at least 2 human beings walk this earth, there will be conflict.

I know what your getting at Micky but... conflict?  Sure.  I love no one on this planet more than my wife and we have occasional conflicts.  But I have yet to call an air strike on her or blast her with napalm.  We work it out- conflict resolution.

Perfectly put brian. We can disagree but why must we fight. Love is the answer. Love and understanding. Simple

Pap

THERE REALLY CAN BE NO PEACE WITHOUT JUSTICE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqPzS8Y27Ks

vaggar99

war is fun....for CNN and Fox

cincybearcat

vaggar99 said:

war is fun....for CNN and Fox

MSNBC was talking today about how the missile attack was necessary and maybe didn’t go far enough 

ConorKavanagh

War is just a business to the presidents as far as I can see. Each one seems to just get overwhelmed with the power, possibility once they ascend.

pjhawks

brianlux said:

We are a young country that has learned to use bullying, tantrums, and violence to achieve our goals (if goals are even a factor).  But there is a better way and that way is peace.  And one way to look at achieving peace is through strategy.  The  strategy of war.  That's right.  This is what Sea Shepherds do to save marine life.  Their actions are base firmly in Sun Tzu's Art of War  AND their number one rule is DO NO HARM TO ANY HUMANS.  Strategy for peace.  Makes good sense to me. 

no blame on France and UK who also took part in the Syrian bombings?

Until there is no religion in the world there will never be peace.

mace1229

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

Nami said:

agreed, an overwhelming sense of sadness today over this......

Yes, Nami, sadness, worry, anger, frustration, and for me utter disillusionment with any hope of humanity learning how to deal with it's problems in a civilized, rational, logical manner. 

And lets not forget that all this war is an assault on the planet itself.  Nature take a brutal beating as well.  It's not just about us.

Are we a hopelessly violent and suicidal species?  Will we ever learn?

Sorry for all the negativity friends.  I wish rather than just venting there was something I (all of us) could do to change the course of history and turn our direction away from self-destruction and destruction of the planet.  I'm open to suggestions. 

I'm also late for work.  See ya'll later.

I think we are hopelessly violent. Has there ever been a time in history when all of the world leaders were willing to place peace above their own ambitions? Going back thousands of years that has never happened that I can think of.
some of the worst world leaders will only be stopped when forced to, making war a necessary evil that will exist for as long as humans live on this planet.

It's hard not to agree with what you say here, Mace.  The evidence is strongly in favor or it.  Yet there have been periods of peace throughout human history.  Many Native American tribes (not all) were at peace before European Continental Conquest and when they did have skirmished, they often involved counting coup rather than killing or injuring their rivals.   I've also read that Japan had a period of peace that lasted 700 years.

My argument for peace rest on the idea that we have the intelligence to work together without warring.  We have the ability to communicate world-wide and share our cultures and interests.  The only thing we lack is the willingness to get along and I believe willingness comes through believing in something rather than say, "No, it will never happen."   I continue to have the hope that we can achieve peace.  That hope is based on doing what makes sense and it makes sense to work toward peace. Is it an uphill struggle?  Yes.  It the struggle worth it?  I believe so.  Please consider joining that effort.

No doubt that some dynasties/groups have managed to maintain peace for a prolonged period of time. I was thinking on a world, multi-national level though, it is impossible. While those Native Americans were at peace, how many wars in Europe were going on? And to be honest, how did that practice of only peace work out for them in the end.
It requires 100% of the world's leaders to want peace in order for peace to exist. It takes 100% - 1 wanting peace for war to exist.

But while it is inevitable, I would agree we have a duty to not look for war. That list of wars someone posted with justified or not, many were not (or at least not worth the cost). I think we have stuck our noses in too many places for sure. But to expect only peace and not prepare for war is only inviting it.

brianlux

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

We are a young country that has learned to use bullying, tantrums, and violence to achieve our goals (if goals are even a factor).  But there is a better way and that way is peace.  And one way to look at achieving peace is through strategy.  The  strategy of war.  That's right.  This is what Sea Shepherds do to save marine life.  Their actions are base firmly in Sun Tzu's Art of War  AND their number one rule is DO NO HARM TO ANY HUMANS.  Strategy for peace.  Makes good sense to me. 

no blame on France and UK who also took part in the Syrian bombings?

Until there is no religion in the world there will never be peace.

Absolutely France and UK share the responsibility.

Yes, religion is a major reason there is war. Not accepting religious differences, that is.  I don't see religion ever going away.  But I don't see multiple religions and peace as impossible either.

brianlux

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

Nami said:

agreed, an overwhelming sense of sadness today over this......

Yes, Nami, sadness, worry, anger, frustration, and for me utter disillusionment with any hope of humanity learning how to deal with it's problems in a civilized, rational, logical manner. 

And lets not forget that all this war is an assault on the planet itself.  Nature take a brutal beating as well.  It's not just about us.

Are we a hopelessly violent and suicidal species?  Will we ever learn?

Sorry for all the negativity friends.  I wish rather than just venting there was something I (all of us) could do to change the course of history and turn our direction away from self-destruction and destruction of the planet.  I'm open to suggestions. 

I'm also late for work.  See ya'll later.

I think we are hopelessly violent. Has there ever been a time in history when all of the world leaders were willing to place peace above their own ambitions? Going back thousands of years that has never happened that I can think of.
some of the worst world leaders will only be stopped when forced to, making war a necessary evil that will exist for as long as humans live on this planet.

It's hard not to agree with what you say here, Mace.  The evidence is strongly in favor or it.  Yet there have been periods of peace throughout human history.  Many Native American tribes (not all) were at peace before European Continental Conquest and when they did have skirmished, they often involved counting coup rather than killing or injuring their rivals.   I've also read that Japan had a period of peace that lasted 700 years.

My argument for peace rest on the idea that we have the intelligence to work together without warring.  We have the ability to communicate world-wide and share our cultures and interests.  The only thing we lack is the willingness to get along and I believe willingness comes through believing in something rather than say, "No, it will never happen."   I continue to have the hope that we can achieve peace.  That hope is based on doing what makes sense and it makes sense to work toward peace. Is it an uphill struggle?  Yes.  It the struggle worth it?  I believe so.  Please consider joining that effort.

No doubt that some dynasties/groups have managed to maintain peace for a prolonged period of time. I was thinking on a world, multi-national level though, it is impossible. While those Native Americans were at peace, how many wars in Europe were going on? And to be honest, how did that practice of only peace work out for them in the end.
It requires 100% of the world's leaders to want peace in order for peace to exist. It takes 100% - 1 wanting peace for war to exist.

But while it is inevitable, I would agree we have a duty to not look for war. That list of wars someone posted with justified or not, many were not (or at least not worth the cost). I think we have stuck our noses in too many places for sure. But to expect only peace and not prepare for war is only inviting it.

Impossible?  I don't know impossible.  I don't believe in impossible.

Kev - Coat and Keys

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

We are a young country that has learned to use bullying, tantrums, and violence to achieve our goals (if goals are even a factor).  But there is a better way and that way is peace.  And one way to look at achieving peace is through strategy.  The  strategy of war.  That's right.  This is what Sea Shepherds do to save marine life.  Their actions are base firmly in Sun Tzu's Art of War  AND their number one rule is DO NO HARM TO ANY HUMANS.  Strategy for peace.  Makes good sense to me. 

no blame on France and UK who also took part in the Syrian bombings?

Until there is no religion in the world there will never be peace.

Absolutely France and UK share the responsibility.

Yes, religion is a major reason there is war. Not accepting religious differences, that is.  I don't see religion ever going away.  But I don't see multiple religions and peace as impossible either.

Before we remove religion can we try removing weak 'conservative' governments?
I know in the UK Mrs May is looking for a distraction from the EU fiasco and increased crime from all their failed austerity.
And Trump is looking to distract from Porn stars, corrupt lawyers, non-existent walls, quitting Rs, all his awful, corrupter than his lawyers, cabinet appointees, Russia, so, so many things...

brianlux

Kev - Coat and Keys said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

We are a young country that has learned to use bullying, tantrums, and violence to achieve our goals (if goals are even a factor).  But there is a better way and that way is peace.  And one way to look at achieving peace is through strategy.  The  strategy of war.  That's right.  This is what Sea Shepherds do to save marine life.  Their actions are base firmly in Sun Tzu's Art of War  AND their number one rule is DO NO HARM TO ANY HUMANS.  Strategy for peace.  Makes good sense to me. 

no blame on France and UK who also took part in the Syrian bombings?

Until there is no religion in the world there will never be peace.

Absolutely France and UK share the responsibility.

Yes, religion is a major reason there is war. Not accepting religious differences, that is.  I don't see religion ever going away.  But I don't see multiple religions and peace as impossible either.

Before we remove religion can we try removing weak 'conservative' governments?
I know in the UK Mrs May is looking for a distraction from the EU fiasco and increased crime from all their failed austerity.
And Trump is looking to distract from Porn stars, corrupt lawyers, non-existent walls, quitting Rs, all his awful, corrupter than his lawyers, cabinet appointees, Russia, so, so many things...

I'm not religious but I'm also not in favor of removing religion.  What myths people want to believe is their business as long as they don't foist it on others or make war over it. 

Now removing weak governments- that's a great idea.  I would love to hear about any good, effective governments that work for the good of the people, the good of the planet and for peaceful co-existence.  I don't know of such a government so I say, let's speak out for one to be created in your own country, state, province, county, or community. I know this is yet another idea that has about as much chance of happening as it likely for elephants to start flying but I also don't believe it is impossible.  Well, maybe elephants flying is nearly impossible, haha!

lastexitlondon

I'm sick and tired of hearing things from these uptight short sighted narrow minded politicians

brianlux

lastexitlondon said:

I'm sick and tired of hearing things from these uptight short sighted narrow minded politicians

They are vexing, aren't they!

lastexitlondon

Smoke screens all over the place what even is the truth.  Its nowhere to be found

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

Kev - Coat and Keys said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

We are a young country that has learned to use bullying, tantrums, and violence to achieve our goals (if goals are even a factor).  But there is a better way and that way is peace.  And one way to look at achieving peace is through strategy.  The  strategy of war.  That's right.  This is what Sea Shepherds do to save marine life.  Their actions are base firmly in Sun Tzu's Art of War  AND their number one rule is DO NO HARM TO ANY HUMANS.  Strategy for peace.  Makes good sense to me. 

no blame on France and UK who also took part in the Syrian bombings?

Until there is no religion in the world there will never be peace.

Absolutely France and UK share the responsibility.

Yes, religion is a major reason there is war. Not accepting religious differences, that is.  I don't see religion ever going away.  But I don't see multiple religions and peace as impossible either.

Before we remove religion can we try removing weak 'conservative' governments?
I know in the UK Mrs May is looking for a distraction from the EU fiasco and increased crime from all their failed austerity.
And Trump is looking to distract from Porn stars, corrupt lawyers, non-existent walls, quitting Rs, all his awful, corrupter than his lawyers, cabinet appointees, Russia, so, so many things...

I'm not religious but I'm also not in favor of removing religion.  What myths people want to believe is their business as long as they don't foist it on others or make war over it. 

Now removing weak governments- that's a great idea.  I would love to hear about any good, effective governments that work for the good of the people, the good of the planet and for peaceful co-existence.  I don't know of such a government so I say, let's speak out for one to be created in your own country, state, province, county, or community. I know this is yet another idea that has about as much chance of happening as it likely for elephants to start flying but I also don't believe it is impossible.  Well, maybe elephants flying is nearly impossible, haha!

I encourage you to research a little into Switzerland.  

Meltdown99

Direct democracy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy

We need to quit electing politicians to make decision for us.  I have no problems with the idiot politicians running the day business of government, all major policy initiative's should go to the people...especially compensation packages for said idiots.

benjs

Meltdown99 said:

Direct democracy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy

We need to quit electing politicians to make decision for us.  I have no problems with the idiot politicians running the day business of government, all major policy initiative's should go to the people...especially compensation packages for said idiots.

When the self-serving outnumber the selfless, when the shortsighted outnumber the longsighted, when those who desire being right over being righteous, when the blissfully ignorant outnumber the saddened aware, when the class and resource and (most importantly) education imbalances already exist - all of which have proven to be the case - direct democracy would further catalyze our destruction. And between these human traits and our irreparable (and continuing) damage to the planet and to each other, it seems our destruction is already imminent.