Actually doesn’t sound like a terrible idea, haha. Wouldn’t it be more similar if men were told they couldn’t have vasectomies, though? No woman is forced to have the medical procedure that I’m aware of. Would all men having vasectomies not be just another way of men controlling pregnancy on their own terms?
Well, of course the meme isn't actually saying vasectomies should be mandated. It's just implying that people who want to dictate what women should do with their own bodies should... well, the that line says it all!
Another one I heard goes something like: Have you noticed that go can't get a tax deduction for fetuses because the government doesn't consider a fetus a person?
Of course, then the right will want to make fetuses be persons. Why not, right? Corporations are persons. In fact, I'm pretty sure my cat is a person. I hope she lives to be voting age.
I get it, I was just being argumentative as usual . I hadn’t heard that one on the fetuses, but it does create a bit of a conundrum on the topic.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,725
Actually doesn’t sound like a terrible idea, haha. Wouldn’t it be more similar if men were told they couldn’t have vasectomies, though? No woman is forced to have the medical procedure that I’m aware of. Would all men having vasectomies not be just another way of men controlling pregnancy on their own terms?
Well, of course the meme isn't actually saying vasectomies should be mandated. It's just implying that people who want to dictate what women should do with their own bodies should... well, the that line says it all!
Another one I heard goes something like: Have you noticed that go can't get a tax deduction for fetuses because the government doesn't consider a fetus a person?
Of course, then the right will want to make fetuses be persons. Why not, right? Corporations are persons. In fact, I'm pretty sure my cat is a person. I hope she lives to be voting age.
I get it, I was just being argumentative as usual . I hadn’t heard that one on the fetuses, but it does create a bit of a conundrum on the topic.
Oh gosh, no problem. I didn't see it as an argument.
True,the subject of fetuses is tricky. Biologically, in its earliest stages, a fetus is basically a fish. It actually has gill slits like a fish (see here*). So if anti-abortionists are going to insist that life starts at conception, and are against "killing" that life by way of abortion, they sure as hell better not be eating fish, or at least if they do, confess their sins as murderers!
Actually doesn’t sound like a terrible idea, haha. Wouldn’t it be more similar if men were told they couldn’t have vasectomies, though? No woman is forced to have the medical procedure that I’m aware of. Would all men having vasectomies not be just another way of men controlling pregnancy on their own terms?
Well, of course the meme isn't actually saying vasectomies should be mandated. It's just implying that people who want to dictate what women should do with their own bodies should... well, the that line says it all!
Another one I heard goes something like: Have you noticed that go can't get a tax deduction for fetuses because the government doesn't consider a fetus a person?
Of course, then the right will want to make fetuses be persons. Why not, right? Corporations are persons. In fact, I'm pretty sure my cat is a person. I hope she lives to be voting age.
I get it, I was just being argumentative as usual . I hadn’t heard that one on the fetuses, but it does create a bit of a conundrum on the topic.
Oh gosh, no problem. I didn't see it as an argument.
True,the subject of fetuses is tricky. Biologically, in its earliest stages, a fetus is basically a fish. It actually has gill slits like a fish (see here*). So if anti-abortionists are going to insist that life starts at conception, and are against "killing" that life by way of abortion, they sure as hell better not be eating fish, or at least if they do, confess their sins as murderers!
Insisting that it begins at conception, and extending personhood to that moment, would make morning after/Plan B and other contraceptives akin to abortion, and therefore murder under the personhood statute. That is significantly sooner than the current medical standard of the fetus in the womb, if I'm not mistaken.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,725
Actually doesn’t sound like a terrible idea, haha. Wouldn’t it be more similar if men were told they couldn’t have vasectomies, though? No woman is forced to have the medical procedure that I’m aware of. Would all men having vasectomies not be just another way of men controlling pregnancy on their own terms?
Well, of course the meme isn't actually saying vasectomies should be mandated. It's just implying that people who want to dictate what women should do with their own bodies should... well, the that line says it all!
Another one I heard goes something like: Have you noticed that go can't get a tax deduction for fetuses because the government doesn't consider a fetus a person?
Of course, then the right will want to make fetuses be persons. Why not, right? Corporations are persons. In fact, I'm pretty sure my cat is a person. I hope she lives to be voting age.
I get it, I was just being argumentative as usual . I hadn’t heard that one on the fetuses, but it does create a bit of a conundrum on the topic.
Oh gosh, no problem. I didn't see it as an argument.
True,the subject of fetuses is tricky. Biologically, in its earliest stages, a fetus is basically a fish. It actually has gill slits like a fish (see here*). So if anti-abortionists are going to insist that life starts at conception, and are against "killing" that life by way of abortion, they sure as hell better not be eating fish, or at least if they do, confess their sins as murderers!
Insisting that it begins at conception, and extending personhood to that moment, would make morning after/Plan B and other contraceptives akin to abortion, and therefore murder under the personhood statute. That is significantly sooner than the current medical standard of the fetus in the womb, if I'm not mistaken.
That's sounds correct, M.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
what i want to know is how can fucking missouri enforce a law that prohibits women from mo from going to other states to have an abortion. are they really saying women cannot leave the state if that law passes? i travel to illinois every day for work. how can this law pass?
these republicans are absolutely insane.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,725
what i want to know is how can fucking missouri enforce a law that prohibits women from mo from going to other states to have an abortion. are they really saying women cannot leave the state if that law passes? i travel to illinois every day for work. how can this law pass?
these republicans are absolutely insane.
I think you answered your question! Yes, they a unhinged, wheels coming off, out to lunch, and bat-shit crazy!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
what i want to know is how can fucking missouri enforce a law that prohibits women from mo from going to other states to have an abortion. are they really saying women cannot leave the state if that law passes? i travel to illinois every day for work. how can this law pass?
these republicans are absolutely insane.
I hadn't heard about it until your post. that is literally insane.
like I've said....Margaret Atwood was on to something.
what i want to know is how can fucking missouri enforce a law that prohibits women from mo from going to other states to have an abortion. are they really saying women cannot leave the state if that law passes? i travel to illinois every day for work. how can this law pass?
these republicans are absolutely insane.
I hadn't heard about it until your post. that is literally insane.
like I've said....Margaret Atwood was on to something.
what i want to know is how can fucking missouri enforce a law that prohibits women from mo from going to other states to have an abortion. are they really saying women cannot leave the state if that law passes? i travel to illinois every day for work. how can this law pass?
these republicans are absolutely insane.
I think you answered your question! Yes, they a unhinged, wheels coming off, out to lunch, and bat-shit crazy!
Remember it's not just the politicians. It's also every single person who supports them in some way. Advice Financially Posting on message boards Voting Etc
Uh-oh. You know what they say about anyone who shows support for another person, right? Well, this obviously means Pelosi supports antiabortion views, and loves Texas. Gonna be a tough pill to swallow for those who subscribe to that way of thinking.
Uh-oh. You know what they say about anyone who shows support for another person, right? Well, this obviously means Pelosi supports antiabortion views, and loves Texas. Gonna be a tough pill to swallow for those who subscribe to that way of thinking.
Guess we’ll never know how people feel about this.
The discussion we should be having is what are the restrictions? And before you jump down my throat - do people really believe there should be unfettered access to abortions in the 9th month? On the other side of the coin, obvious exceptions at all times is mother's life. What else and at what times?
We need to get the crazy and extreme out of both sides and start concentrating our national discussions in the middle where most of the country is.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
The discussion we should be having is what are the restrictions? And before you jump down my throat - do people really believe there should be unfettered access to abortions in the 9th month? On the other side of the coin, obvious exceptions at all times is mother's life. What else and at what times?
We need to get the crazy and extreme out of both sides and start concentrating our national discussions in the middle where most of the country is.
A dead-end of when it should no longer be done needs to exist, even if it's kinda arbitrary (kinda like a drinking age). I know people that say "as long as it's not born" but most people would be more along the lines of "first two trimesters." I'm OK with that.
After that, most exceptions for "all times" hopefully are not needed. Rape/incest should be able to be taken care of in the first two trimesters.
That said, while you probably can find "crazy and extreme" on the pro-choice side, it's pretty small and toothless. Only the extreme anti-choice matters at this point.
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The discussion we should be having is what are the restrictions? And before you jump down my throat - do people really believe there should be unfettered access to abortions in the 9th month? On the other side of the coin, obvious exceptions at all times is mother's life. What else and at what times?
We need to get the crazy and extreme out of both sides and start concentrating our national discussions in the middle where most of the country is.
9th month abortions don't happen unless the mother's life is in danger. nor do 8th month or 7th month.
In Manitoba, it's only allowed at a maximum of 19 weeks after your last menstrual cycle ends. that's 4.75 months. Ontario is 24 weeks. end of the second trimester is considered the norm at the extreme end.
only 1.3 percent of abortions in the states were performed during this time period. so guess how many were done after that?
91 percent performed before 13 weeks.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,725
Uh-oh. You know what they say about anyone who shows support for another person, right? Well, this obviously means Pelosi supports antiabortion views, and loves Texas. Gonna be a tough pill to swallow for those who subscribe to that way of thinking.
Guess we’ll never know how people feel about this.
To be honest, Nick, a little nonplussed, a lot unconcerned. Most people have already made up their minds about a woman's right to control their won body (I'm obviously in favor of that), and I can't see Pelosi's take on it changing enough minds to make a difference.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The idea that women are getting abortions in the last few weeks of pregnancy for any reason other than fatal malformations or risk to the woman’s life is a bogeyman put forward by the anti-choice crowd.
I am in favour of no legal restrictions on abortion. That’s what we’ve had in Canada for decades and surprise, there hasn’t been a problem with third trimester abortions.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
The discussion we should be having is what are the restrictions? And before you jump down my throat - do people really believe there should be unfettered access to abortions in the 9th month? On the other side of the coin, obvious exceptions at all times is mother's life. What else and at what times?
We need to get the crazy and extreme out of both sides and start concentrating our national discussions in the middle where most of the country is.
9th month abortions don't happen unless the mother's life is in danger. nor do 8th month or 7th month.
In Manitoba, it's only allowed at a maximum of 19 weeks after your last menstrual cycle ends. that's 4.75 months. Ontario is 24 weeks. end of the second trimester is considered the norm at the extreme end.
only 1.3 percent of abortions in the states were performed during this time period. so guess how many were done after that?
91 percent performed before 13 weeks.
Not that it isn’t allowed, as there isn’t legislation preventing it; it just isn’t available.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
The discussion we should be having is what are the restrictions? And before you jump down my throat - do people really believe there should be unfettered access to abortions in the 9th month? On the other side of the coin, obvious exceptions at all times is mother's life. What else and at what times?
We need to get the crazy and extreme out of both sides and start concentrating our national discussions in the middle where most of the country is.
well, the issue is not just abortion. it is bodily autonomy. i believe a woman should have control over her body at all times, so it is their choice. men need to stay the fuck out of it. people can not like abortion all they want, but do not impose your views on women.
i do not like abortion, but i like the fact that women had the option to make the best decision for themselves.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,725
The discussion we should be having is what are the restrictions? And before you jump down my throat - do people really believe there should be unfettered access to abortions in the 9th month? On the other side of the coin, obvious exceptions at all times is mother's life. What else and at what times?
We need to get the crazy and extreme out of both sides and start concentrating our national discussions in the middle where most of the country is.
well, the issue is not just abortion. it is bodily autonomy. i believe a woman should have control over her body at all times, so it is their choice. men need to stay the fuck out of it. people can not like abortion all they want, but do not impose your views on women.
i do not like abortion, but i like the fact that women had the option to make the best decision for themselves.
Perfectly stated!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The discussion we should be having is what are the restrictions? And before you jump down my throat - do people really believe there should be unfettered access to abortions in the 9th month? On the other side of the coin, obvious exceptions at all times is mother's life. What else and at what times?
We need to get the crazy and extreme out of both sides and start concentrating our national discussions in the middle where most of the country is.
well, the issue is not just abortion. it is bodily autonomy. i believe a woman should have control over her body at all times, so it is their choice. men need to stay the fuck out of it. people can not like abortion all they want, but do not impose your views on women.
i do not like abortion, but i like the fact that women had the option to make the best decision for themselves.
my wife is another. exact same stance. that's the essence of pro choice.
These are the best stances yet. That was my point all along. I was pregnant at 22 and engaged. So when my son noticed that our anniversary obviously is before nine months I was able to say to him honestly that he was a CHOICE. He wasn’t a mistake, nor did we even consider abortion. Had I been 16 and alone I would have gone the adoption route. I am against abortion for me. It’s a free world so I get to choose and I don’t judge those who choose abortion, I’m not here to judge.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,725
The discussion we should be having is what are the restrictions? And before you jump down my throat - do people really believe there should be unfettered access to abortions in the 9th month? On the other side of the coin, obvious exceptions at all times is mother's life. What else and at what times?
We need to get the crazy and extreme out of both sides and start concentrating our national discussions in the middle where most of the country is.
well, the issue is not just abortion. it is bodily autonomy. i believe a woman should have control over her body at all times, so it is their choice. men need to stay the fuck out of it. people can not like abortion all they want, but do not impose your views on women.
i do not like abortion, but i like the fact that women had the option to make the best decision for themselves.
my wife is another. exact same stance. that's the essence of pro choice.
These are the best stances yet. That was my point all along. I was pregnant at 22 and engaged. So when my son noticed that our anniversary obviously is before nine months I was able to say to him honestly that he was a CHOICE. He wasn’t a mistake, nor did we even consider abortion. Had I been 16 and alone I would have gone the adoption route. I am against abortion for me. It’s a free world so I get to choose and I don’t judge those who choose abortion, I’m not here to judge.
"These are the best stances yet. That was my point all along. I
was pregnant at 22 and engaged. So when my son noticed that our
anniversary obviously is before nine months I was able to say to him
honestly that he was a CHOICE. He wasn’t a mistake, nor did we even
consider abortion. Had I been 16 and alone I would have gone the
adoption route. I am against abortion for me. It’s a free world so I get to choose and I don’t judge those who choose abortion, I’m not here to judge. "
Well said, cblock, and good for you!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Abortion in the Founders’ era: Violent, chaotic and unregulated By Gillian Brockell May 15, 2022 at 7:00 ET Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. calls himself an originalist, someone who thinks the Constitution should be interpreted only by how it would have been understood by the Founders when they wrote it. So it’s no surprise that his draft opinion overturning Roe v. Wade is full of history. At least seven times, Alito cited Sir Matthew Hale, a 17th-century jurist who didn’t think marital rape was possible because wives were the property of their husbands, and who sentenced at least two women to die for witchcraft. Alito also cited a legal text from 1250 by Henry de Bracton that, in another section, says women are inferior to men, and that they sometimes give birth to literal monsters. Alito confined his exploration of the past to legal history and English common law. But to assess how the Founders would view abortion rights, it’s necessary to paint a fuller picture of what abortion was actually like in the time of the Founders. And it was very different from how it might look in a post-Roe America. Abortion in the Revolutionary War era In the 18th-century United States and England, abortion was common enough that there were slang terms for it, like “taking the cold,” “taking the trade” and “bringing down the flowers.” It was less-effective and more dangerous than it is now; women seeking abortions often died from infected wounds or poisons. And it was generally unregulated, except for a few instances in England and one in colonial Maryland mentioned by Alito in the draft opinion. In the late-18th and early-19th centuries, no states had laws against any form of abortion, though Alito averred that “manuals for justices of the peace printed in the colonies in the 18th century” sometimes "repeated Hale’s and [William] Blackstone’s statements that anyone who prescribed medication ‘unlawfully to destroy the child’ would be guilty of murder if the woman died.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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That's sounds correct, M.
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these republicans are absolutely insane.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
like I've said....Margaret Atwood was on to something.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/19/travel-abortion-law-missouri-00018539
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I'm sure this will never happen, just like they won't go after same sex marriage... or inter racial marriage... or contraception.... or Roe v Wade
Oh... wait....
It's also every single person who supports them in some way.
Advice
Financially
Posting on message boards
Voting
Etc
The discussion we should be having is what are the restrictions? And before you jump down my throat - do people really believe there should be unfettered access to abortions in the 9th month? On the other side of the coin, obvious exceptions at all times is mother's life. What else and at what times?
We need to get the crazy and extreme out of both sides and start concentrating our national discussions in the middle where most of the country is.
After that, most exceptions for "all times" hopefully are not needed. Rape/incest should be able to be taken care of in the first two trimesters.
That said, while you probably can find "crazy and extreme" on the pro-choice side, it's pretty small and toothless. Only the extreme anti-choice matters at this point.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
In Manitoba, it's only allowed at a maximum of 19 weeks after your last menstrual cycle ends. that's 4.75 months. Ontario is 24 weeks. end of the second trimester is considered the norm at the extreme end.
only 1.3 percent of abortions in the states were performed during this time period. so guess how many were done after that?
91 percent performed before 13 weeks.
www.headstonesband.com
To be honest, Nick, a little nonplussed, a lot unconcerned. Most people have already made up their minds about a woman's right to control their won body (I'm obviously in favor of that), and I can't see Pelosi's take on it changing enough minds to make a difference.
i do not like abortion, but i like the fact that women had the option to make the best decision for themselves.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Perfectly stated!
Well said, cblock, and good for you!
By Gillian Brockell
May 15, 2022 at 7:00 ET
Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. calls himself an originalist, someone who thinks the Constitution should be interpreted only by how it would have been understood by the Founders when they wrote it. So it’s no surprise that his draft opinion overturning Roe v. Wade is full of history.
At least seven times, Alito cited Sir Matthew Hale, a 17th-century jurist who didn’t think marital rape was possible because wives were the property of their husbands, and who sentenced at least two women to die for witchcraft. Alito also cited a legal text from 1250 by Henry de Bracton that, in another section, says women are inferior to men, and that they sometimes give birth to literal monsters.
Alito confined his exploration of the past to legal history and English common law. But to assess how the Founders would view abortion rights, it’s necessary to paint a fuller picture of what abortion was actually like in the time of the Founders.
And it was very different from how it might look in a post-Roe America.
Abortion in the Revolutionary War era
In the 18th-century United States and England, abortion was common enough that there were slang terms for it, like “taking the cold,” “taking the trade” and “bringing down the flowers.” It was less-effective and more dangerous than it is now; women seeking abortions often died from infected wounds or poisons. And it was generally unregulated, except for a few instances in England and one in colonial Maryland mentioned by Alito in the draft opinion.
In the late-18th and early-19th centuries, no states had laws against any form of abortion, though Alito averred that “manuals for justices of the peace printed in the colonies in the 18th century” sometimes "repeated Hale’s and [William] Blackstone’s statements that anyone who prescribed medication ‘unlawfully to destroy the child’ would be guilty of murder if the woman died.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I love it- Mike standing up for women's right to choose in my home city. Awesome!