we all know that anti abortion laws arent about the sanctity of life, theyre about control. in the end the decision to carry a pregnancy to term or to terminate it for whatever reason is the sole decision of the women. i imagine this must rankle some men like nothing else on earth. but thats just tough luck for them being born with a penis. as hard as men try and desire to control women, we are not incubators and cant be treated as incubational slaves. the risks to the lives of women are too great.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
we all know that anti abortion laws arent about the sanctity of life, theyre about control. in the end the decision to carry a pregnancy to term or to terminate it for whatever reason is the sole decision of the women. i imagine this must rankle some men like nothing else on earth. but thats just tough luck for them being born with a penis. as hard as men try and desire to control women, we are not incubators and cant be treated as incubational slaves. the risks to the lives of women are too great.
People just like to spin it that way to make any differing opinion sound evil and just about control.
Pittsburgh 2013 Cincinnati 2014 Greenville 2016 (Raleigh 2016) Columbia 2016
we all know that anti abortion laws arent about the sanctity of life, theyre about control. in the end the decision to carry a pregnancy to term or to terminate it for whatever reason is the sole decision of the women. i imagine this must rankle some men like nothing else on earth. but thats just tough luck for them being born with a penis. as hard as men try and desire to control women, we are not incubators and cant be treated as incubational slaves. the risks to the lives of women are too great.
People just like to spin it that way to make any differing opinion sound evil and just about control.
It is about control. No use pretending it isn’t. Your reasons for wanting that control may vary, but it’s absolutely about control.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
we all know that anti abortion laws arent about the sanctity of life, theyre about control. in the end the decision to carry a pregnancy to term or to terminate it for whatever reason is the sole decision of the women. i imagine this must rankle some men like nothing else on earth. but thats just tough luck for them being born with a penis. as hard as men try and desire to control women, we are not incubators and cant be treated as incubational slaves. the risks to the lives of women are too great.
People just like to spin it that way to make any differing opinion sound evil and just about control.
It is about control. No use pretending it isn’t. Your reasons for wanting that control may vary, but it’s absolutely about control.
FORCING women to carry pregnancies to term no matter the circumstances, sounds like control doesnt it? TAKING agency away from pregnant women in regards to self determination, sounds like control doesnt it?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
we all know that anti abortion laws arent about the sanctity of life, theyre about control. in the end the decision to carry a pregnancy to term or to terminate it for whatever reason is the sole decision of the women. i imagine this must rankle some men like nothing else on earth. but thats just tough luck for them being born with a penis. as hard as men try and desire to control women, we are not incubators and cant be treated as incubational slaves. the risks to the lives of women are too great.
People just like to spin it that way to make any differing opinion sound evil and just about control.
I think you can have a philosophical discussion about life, and what abortion means.
But the laws in the US regarding this is all about control and an evil holier than though attitude towards women.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I’m curious how others would feel about this, but what about an exclusively female vote on a cut-off (after X weeks/months) to permit abortions to shut men up about their bullshit claims of abortions within weeks of a due date?
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
we all know that anti abortion laws arent about the sanctity of life, theyre about control. in the end the decision to carry a pregnancy to term or to terminate it for whatever reason is the sole decision of the women. i imagine this must rankle some men like nothing else on earth. but thats just tough luck for them being born with a penis. as hard as men try and desire to control women, we are not incubators and cant be treated as incubational slaves. the risks to the lives of women are too great.
People just like to spin it that way to make any differing opinion sound evil and just about control.
Unfortunately it is about control though; not just of women, but of the lower & middle classes as well.
I’m curious how others would feel about this, but what about an exclusively female vote on a cut-off (after X weeks/months) to permit abortions to shut men up about their bullshit claims of abortions within weeks of a due date?
With the crux of the discussion being "what is life" and "is it a child in there or not", I would say on the most basic level the gender of those who decides/votes doesn't matter. Because it isn't about women or men, is it about "the child".
But I do know someone will now ask me to shut and say something to the effect of "IT'S ALL ABOUT THE WOMAN'S RIGHT TO HER OWN BODY!"
But whatever.
Just allow safe abortions, and take "religion" out of anything that has to do with laws or rules regarding it. In the secular world, this seems to be a non-question.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion. btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.
Post edited by catefrances on
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I’m curious how others would feel about this, but what about an exclusively female vote on a cut-off (after X weeks/months) to permit abortions to shut men up about their bullshit claims of abortions within weeks of a due date?
there is no cut off. the choice is the womans and hers alone. itd be hypocritical of me to suggest i can have an abortion within the parameters of society's idea of an acceptable time frame and deny another woman the same choice outside those supposed acceptable parameters. its simply not my business.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion. btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.
Cate, I just want to clarify my statement above. I would trust those with the ability to carry a pregnancy to make that judgment call about how late into a pregnancy is ‘too late’ to have an abortion. If that judgment call made is ‘never too late’ - I’m okay with that too. I believe this kind of ‘acceptable/not acceptable’ law (wherever the line, if any, is drawn) created by women for women would be the truest form of female empowerment on this topic and my hope would be that it would reclaim women’s rightful possession of their own bodies while telling men what conversations are never to be on the table again.
I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.
I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion. btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.
Cate, I just want to clarify my statement above. I would trust those with the ability to carry a pregnancy to make that judgment call about how late into a pregnancy is ‘too late’ to have an abortion. If that judgment call made is ‘never too late’ - I’m okay with that too. I believe this kind of ‘acceptable/not acceptable’ law (wherever the line, if any, is drawn) created by women for women would be the truest form of female empowerment on this topic and my hope would be that it would reclaim women’s rightful possession of their own bodies while telling men what conversations are never to be on the table again.
I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.
I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.
sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion. btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.
Cate, I just want to clarify my statement above. I would trust those with the ability to carry a pregnancy to make that judgment call about how late into a pregnancy is ‘too late’ to have an abortion. If that judgment call made is ‘never too late’ - I’m okay with that too. I believe this kind of ‘acceptable/not acceptable’ law (wherever the line, if any, is drawn) created by women for women would be the truest form of female empowerment on this topic and my hope would be that it would reclaim women’s rightful possession of their own bodies while telling men what conversations are never to be on the table again.
I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.
I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.
thats the thing benjs whether created by men or women any law about when a woman can terminate a pregnancy is taking agency out of her hands. its not 'softer' or more acceptable or even empowering if the law was drawn up by women. ANY law 'drawing the line' is control. bottom line is im not the one pregnant, therefore its not my call and not my business.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion. btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.
Cate, I just want to clarify my statement above. I would trust those with the ability to carry a pregnancy to make that judgment call about how late into a pregnancy is ‘too late’ to have an abortion. If that judgment call made is ‘never too late’ - I’m okay with that too. I believe this kind of ‘acceptable/not acceptable’ law (wherever the line, if any, is drawn) created by women for women would be the truest form of female empowerment on this topic and my hope would be that it would reclaim women’s rightful possession of their own bodies while telling men what conversations are never to be on the table again.
I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.
I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.
thats the thing benjs whether created by men or women any law about when a woman can terminate a pregnancy is taking agency out of her hands. its not 'softer' or more acceptable or even empowering if the law was drawn up by women. ANY law 'drawing the line' is control. bottom line is im not the one pregnant, therefore its not my call and not my business.
I fully agree, Cate, I just worry about the backsliding we’re seeing today and how it might occur again in the future. That’s the only reason I feel the way I do is because I worry that in the absence of a law, protections and rights granted seem like they will be temporary and exploited. Even if such a line in the sand were drawn though, I agree with you 100% fundamentally that it’s no one’s call except for the person carrying a pregnancy, laws be damned.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion. btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.
Cate, I just want to clarify my statement above. I would trust those with the ability to carry a pregnancy to make that judgment call about how late into a pregnancy is ‘too late’ to have an abortion. If that judgment call made is ‘never too late’ - I’m okay with that too. I believe this kind of ‘acceptable/not acceptable’ law (wherever the line, if any, is drawn) created by women for women would be the truest form of female empowerment on this topic and my hope would be that it would reclaim women’s rightful possession of their own bodies while telling men what conversations are never to be on the table again.
I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.
I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.
thats the thing benjs whether created by men or women any law about when a woman can terminate a pregnancy is taking agency out of her hands. its not 'softer' or more acceptable or even empowering if the law was drawn up by women. ANY law 'drawing the line' is control. bottom line is im not the one pregnant, therefore its not my call and not my business.
I fully agree, Cate, I just worry about the backsliding we’re seeing today and how it might occur again in the future. That’s the only reason I feel the way I do is because I worry that in the absence of a law, protections and rights granted seem like they will be temporary and exploited. Even if such a line in the sand were drawn though, I agree with you 100% fundamentally that it’s no one’s call except for the person carrying a pregnancy, laws be damned.
and lets be honest, nothing is going to stop women seeking abortions, so why not work with them to provide the best outcome for THEM.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion. btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.
Cate, I just want to clarify my statement above. I would trust those with the ability to carry a pregnancy to make that judgment call about how late into a pregnancy is ‘too late’ to have an abortion. If that judgment call made is ‘never too late’ - I’m okay with that too. I believe this kind of ‘acceptable/not acceptable’ law (wherever the line, if any, is drawn) created by women for women would be the truest form of female empowerment on this topic and my hope would be that it would reclaim women’s rightful possession of their own bodies while telling men what conversations are never to be on the table again.
I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.
I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.
thats the thing benjs whether created by men or women any law about when a woman can terminate a pregnancy is taking agency out of her hands. its not 'softer' or more acceptable or even empowering if the law was drawn up by women. ANY law 'drawing the line' is control. bottom line is im not the one pregnant, therefore its not my call and not my business.
I fully agree, Cate, I just worry about the backsliding we’re seeing today and how it might occur again in the future. That’s the only reason I feel the way I do is because I worry that in the absence of a law, protections and rights granted seem like they will be temporary and exploited. Even if such a line in the sand were drawn though, I agree with you 100% fundamentally that it’s no one’s call except for the person carrying a pregnancy, laws be damned.
and lets be honest, nothing is going to stop women seeking abortions, so why not work with them to provide the best outcome for THEM.
Really good point - I’m sold.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion. btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.
Cate, I just want to clarify my statement above. I would trust those with the ability to carry a pregnancy to make that judgment call about how late into a pregnancy is ‘too late’ to have an abortion. If that judgment call made is ‘never too late’ - I’m okay with that too. I believe this kind of ‘acceptable/not acceptable’ law (wherever the line, if any, is drawn) created by women for women would be the truest form of female empowerment on this topic and my hope would be that it would reclaim women’s rightful possession of their own bodies while telling men what conversations are never to be on the table again.
I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.
I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.
thats the thing benjs whether created by men or women any law about when a woman can terminate a pregnancy is taking agency out of her hands. its not 'softer' or more acceptable or even empowering if the law was drawn up by women. ANY law 'drawing the line' is control. bottom line is im not the one pregnant, therefore its not my call and not my business.
I fully agree, Cate, I just worry about the backsliding we’re seeing today and how it might occur again in the future. That’s the only reason I feel the way I do is because I worry that in the absence of a law, protections and rights granted seem like they will be temporary and exploited. Even if such a line in the sand were drawn though, I agree with you 100% fundamentally that it’s no one’s call except for the person carrying a pregnancy, laws be damned.
and lets be honest, nothing is going to stop women seeking abortions, so why not work with them to provide the best outcome for THEM.
sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion. btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.
Cate, I just want to clarify my statement above. I would trust those with the ability to carry a pregnancy to make that judgment call about how late into a pregnancy is ‘too late’ to have an abortion. If that judgment call made is ‘never too late’ - I’m okay with that too. I believe this kind of ‘acceptable/not acceptable’ law (wherever the line, if any, is drawn) created by women for women would be the truest form of female empowerment on this topic and my hope would be that it would reclaim women’s rightful possession of their own bodies while telling men what conversations are never to be on the table again.
I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.
I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.
thats the thing benjs whether created by men or women any law about when a woman can terminate a pregnancy is taking agency out of her hands. its not 'softer' or more acceptable or even empowering if the law was drawn up by women. ANY law 'drawing the line' is control. bottom line is im not the one pregnant, therefore its not my call and not my business.
I fully agree, Cate, I just worry about the backsliding we’re seeing today and how it might occur again in the future. That’s the only reason I feel the way I do is because I worry that in the absence of a law, protections and rights granted seem like they will be temporary and exploited. Even if such a line in the sand were drawn though, I agree with you 100% fundamentally that it’s no one’s call except for the person carrying a pregnancy, laws be damned.
and lets be honest, nothing is going to stop women seeking abortions, so why not work with them to provide the best outcome for THEM.
Stopping unwanted pregnancies would.
good luck with that.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion. btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.
Cate, I just want to clarify my statement above. I would trust those with the ability to carry a pregnancy to make that judgment call about how late into a pregnancy is ‘too late’ to have an abortion. If that judgment call made is ‘never too late’ - I’m okay with that too. I believe this kind of ‘acceptable/not acceptable’ law (wherever the line, if any, is drawn) created by women for women would be the truest form of female empowerment on this topic and my hope would be that it would reclaim women’s rightful possession of their own bodies while telling men what conversations are never to be on the table again.
I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.
I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.
thats the thing benjs whether created by men or women any law about when a woman can terminate a pregnancy is taking agency out of her hands. its not 'softer' or more acceptable or even empowering if the law was drawn up by women. ANY law 'drawing the line' is control. bottom line is im not the one pregnant, therefore its not my call and not my business.
I fully agree, Cate, I just worry about the backsliding we’re seeing today and how it might occur again in the future. That’s the only reason I feel the way I do is because I worry that in the absence of a law, protections and rights granted seem like they will be temporary and exploited. Even if such a line in the sand were drawn though, I agree with you 100% fundamentally that it’s no one’s call except for the person carrying a pregnancy, laws be damned.
and lets be honest, nothing is going to stop women seeking abortions, so why not work with them to provide the best outcome for THEM.
Stopping unwanted pregnancies would.
good luck with that.
You don’t think that’s a realistic goal? Then wtf have birth control? Sex education? Etc? I thought even pro-choice people were aligned to these types of things. Guess not.
sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion. btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.
Cate, I just want to clarify my statement above. I would trust those with the ability to carry a pregnancy to make that judgment call about how late into a pregnancy is ‘too late’ to have an abortion. If that judgment call made is ‘never too late’ - I’m okay with that too. I believe this kind of ‘acceptable/not acceptable’ law (wherever the line, if any, is drawn) created by women for women would be the truest form of female empowerment on this topic and my hope would be that it would reclaim women’s rightful possession of their own bodies while telling men what conversations are never to be on the table again.
I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.
I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.
thats the thing benjs whether created by men or women any law about when a woman can terminate a pregnancy is taking agency out of her hands. its not 'softer' or more acceptable or even empowering if the law was drawn up by women. ANY law 'drawing the line' is control. bottom line is im not the one pregnant, therefore its not my call and not my business.
I fully agree, Cate, I just worry about the backsliding we’re seeing today and how it might occur again in the future. That’s the only reason I feel the way I do is because I worry that in the absence of a law, protections and rights granted seem like they will be temporary and exploited. Even if such a line in the sand were drawn though, I agree with you 100% fundamentally that it’s no one’s call except for the person carrying a pregnancy, laws be damned.
and lets be honest, nothing is going to stop women seeking abortions, so why not work with them to provide the best outcome for THEM.
Stopping unwanted pregnancies would.
good luck with that.
You don’t think that’s a realistic goal? Then wtf have birth control? Sex education? Etc? I thought even pro-choice people were aligned to these types of things. Guess not.
Pro-choice people are aligned with birth control, teaching it and making it easily accessible, particularly to teens. See what Hickenlooper did in Colorado and the subsequent reduction in unwanted pregnancies and abortions, particularly among teens. Its the religious jihadis who believe life begins at conception or even before who are against it and as a result, teach abstinence only and deny funding for clinics that provide birth control and reproductive education (Planned Parenthood, already unable to use federal funds for abortion). That's why, "good luck with that."
I’m curious how others would feel about this, but what about an exclusively female vote on a cut-off (after X weeks/months) to permit abortions to shut men up about their bullshit claims of abortions within weeks of a due date?
With the crux of the discussion being "what is life" and "is it a child in there or not", I would say on the most basic level the gender of those who decides/votes doesn't matter. Because it isn't about women or men, is it about "the child".
But I do know someone will now ask me to shut and say something to the effect of "IT'S ALL ABOUT THE WOMAN'S RIGHT TO HER OWN BODY!"
But whatever.
Just allow safe abortions, and take "religion" out of anything that has to do with laws or rules regarding it. In the secular world, this seems to be a non-question.
But... It IS all about the woman's right to her own body. You act as though that isn't a valid perspective .... I hazard to guess that if you were a woman you might take that perspective more seriously, not just say "whatever", or say it is about the "child", not the women. Wtf.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion. btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.
Cate, I just want to clarify my statement above. I would trust those with the ability to carry a pregnancy to make that judgment call about how late into a pregnancy is ‘too late’ to have an abortion. If that judgment call made is ‘never too late’ - I’m okay with that too. I believe this kind of ‘acceptable/not acceptable’ law (wherever the line, if any, is drawn) created by women for women would be the truest form of female empowerment on this topic and my hope would be that it would reclaim women’s rightful possession of their own bodies while telling men what conversations are never to be on the table again.
I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.
I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.
thats the thing benjs whether created by men or women any law about when a woman can terminate a pregnancy is taking agency out of her hands. its not 'softer' or more acceptable or even empowering if the law was drawn up by women. ANY law 'drawing the line' is control. bottom line is im not the one pregnant, therefore its not my call and not my business.
I fully agree, Cate, I just worry about the backsliding we’re seeing today and how it might occur again in the future. That’s the only reason I feel the way I do is because I worry that in the absence of a law, protections and rights granted seem like they will be temporary and exploited. Even if such a line in the sand were drawn though, I agree with you 100% fundamentally that it’s no one’s call except for the person carrying a pregnancy, laws be damned.
and lets be honest, nothing is going to stop women seeking abortions, so why not work with them to provide the best outcome for THEM.
Stopping unwanted pregnancies would.
good luck with that.
You don’t think that’s a realistic goal? Then wtf have birth control? Sex education? Etc? I thought even pro-choice people were aligned to these types of things. Guess not.
Dude, come on. You guess not, eh? I'm sure you're aware that the birth control industry is massive? And I think you do indeed know that of course pro-choice people are aligned with those kinds of things, hence their support of Planned Parenthood and other women's healthcare facilities. It's actually the anti-choice people who rail against ALL of those things, and want to shut down Planned Parenthood. They are the ones who are typically against sex education in schools, and against offering free condoms to teens, and against subsidizing birth control. Surely you are aware of that. I really can't quite believe you made this comment.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion. btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.
Cate, I just want to clarify my statement above. I would trust those with the ability to carry a pregnancy to make that judgment call about how late into a pregnancy is ‘too late’ to have an abortion. If that judgment call made is ‘never too late’ - I’m okay with that too. I believe this kind of ‘acceptable/not acceptable’ law (wherever the line, if any, is drawn) created by women for women would be the truest form of female empowerment on this topic and my hope would be that it would reclaim women’s rightful possession of their own bodies while telling men what conversations are never to be on the table again.
I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.
I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.
thats the thing benjs whether created by men or women any law about when a woman can terminate a pregnancy is taking agency out of her hands. its not 'softer' or more acceptable or even empowering if the law was drawn up by women. ANY law 'drawing the line' is control. bottom line is im not the one pregnant, therefore its not my call and not my business.
I fully agree, Cate, I just worry about the backsliding we’re seeing today and how it might occur again in the future. That’s the only reason I feel the way I do is because I worry that in the absence of a law, protections and rights granted seem like they will be temporary and exploited. Even if such a line in the sand were drawn though, I agree with you 100% fundamentally that it’s no one’s call except for the person carrying a pregnancy, laws be damned.
and lets be honest, nothing is going to stop women seeking abortions, so why not work with them to provide the best outcome for THEM.
Stopping unwanted pregnancies would.
good luck with that.
You don’t think that’s a realistic goal? Then wtf have birth control? Sex education? Etc? I thought even pro-choice people were aligned to these types of things. Guess not.
..... eh..... What?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
sorry to pop your bubble SC, but gender absolutely does matter when it comes to this. actually not gender, but sex cause trans men can actually carry a pregnancy. just as a man's body is his own, so it is for woman. if a woman doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term that is her decision and her decision only. and it should never be any other way. we dont need conditions applied to our reason cause to be frank, the ONLY reason a woman needs to terminate a pregnancy is that she doesnt want to carry a pregnancy to term. and yes we are in agreeance, take religion out of civil matters and just allow safe abortion. btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.
Cate, I just want to clarify my statement above. I would trust those with the ability to carry a pregnancy to make that judgment call about how late into a pregnancy is ‘too late’ to have an abortion. If that judgment call made is ‘never too late’ - I’m okay with that too. I believe this kind of ‘acceptable/not acceptable’ law (wherever the line, if any, is drawn) created by women for women would be the truest form of female empowerment on this topic and my hope would be that it would reclaim women’s rightful possession of their own bodies while telling men what conversations are never to be on the table again.
I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.
I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.
thats the thing benjs whether created by men or women any law about when a woman can terminate a pregnancy is taking agency out of her hands. its not 'softer' or more acceptable or even empowering if the law was drawn up by women. ANY law 'drawing the line' is control. bottom line is im not the one pregnant, therefore its not my call and not my business.
I fully agree, Cate, I just worry about the backsliding we’re seeing today and how it might occur again in the future. That’s the only reason I feel the way I do is because I worry that in the absence of a law, protections and rights granted seem like they will be temporary and exploited. Even if such a line in the sand were drawn though, I agree with you 100% fundamentally that it’s no one’s call except for the person carrying a pregnancy, laws be damned.
and lets be honest, nothing is going to stop women seeking abortions, so why not work with them to provide the best outcome for THEM.
Stopping unwanted pregnancies would.
good luck with that.
You don’t think that’s a realistic goal? Then wtf have birth control? Sex education? Etc? I thought even pro-choice people were aligned to these types of things. Guess not.
cincy i think its a good goal but ultimately an unrealistic goal. birth control fails. sex education is great but like all education, it isnt necessary taken on board as a way to live ones life. humans arent infallable. we can have the knowledge, we can have the technology but our bodies like to give a little fuck you to us at times. thats why we need a solution so that women all over the world arent held in gestation jail. of course the solution, if you can call it that, is abstention... an interesting thought but an unrealistic path. basically we are animals with an animals instinct to survive and procreate and so we need sex. but aside all this there are motherfuckers out there who think they can just take what they want by raping women and girls. it is imperative that the victims of crime not be punished further by having agency and autonomy over their own bodies taken from them also. oh and a serious fuck you to anyone who thinks its ok for a child who is raped to be made to carry a pregnancy to term... exactly what world do you live in.
hear my name
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
take a good look
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hold my hand
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i just need to say
People just like to spin it that way to make any differing opinion sound evil and just about control.
Cincinnati 2014
Greenville 2016
(Raleigh 2016)
Columbia 2016
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But the laws in the US regarding this is all about control and an evil holier than though attitude towards women.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
But I do know someone will now ask me to shut and say something to the effect of "IT'S ALL ABOUT THE WOMAN'S RIGHT TO HER OWN BODY!"
But whatever.
Just allow safe abortions, and take "religion" out of anything that has to do with laws or rules regarding it. In the secular world, this seems to be a non-question.
btw, miscarriages are also known as spontaneous abortions. the difference being in a miscarriage a woman's body decides to reject the embryo/foetus/unborn at whatever stage of the pregnancy it feels like for whatever reason. whereas an abortion allows the woman agency. either way a decision has been made.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I think that the fundamental problem not being addressed is a woman’s right to make her own decisions on this topic, and unless there is law passed to insist on that fundamental right, I’m embarrassed to say I don’t see my gender relinquishing power willingly and I’m incredibly worried about that. Look how Roe v. Wade appears to be in jeopardy today - I want this resolved in favour of women’s rights once and for all with no shades of grey so there’s no room for disgusting political/religious/chauvinistic sleaze.
I’m inspired by the bill that Illinois passed, stating that a fetus does not have independent rights, and I think those kinds of line-drawing are critical to silence the feigned moral outrage on one of the most important ethical topics we’ve ever had as a civilization.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
take a good look
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i just need to say
she was dead on. kudos to her.
take a good look
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Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
but aside all this there are motherfuckers out there who think they can just take what they want by raping women and girls. it is imperative that the victims of crime not be punished further by having agency and autonomy over their own bodies taken from them also. oh and a serious fuck you to anyone who thinks its ok for a child who is raped to be made to carry a pregnancy to term... exactly what world do you live in.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Right to Life... just no Right to HealthCare, Day Care, or Higher Education... USA #1
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Margaret Atwood says it's "a form of slavery to force women to have children they can't afford"