Abortion-Keep Legal, Yes or No?

pjhawks

Ledbetterman10 said:

pjhawks said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Here's a Supreme Court question.....

Lots of people are suggesting that if Brett Kavanaugh is confirmed, Roe v. Wade will likely be overturned. My question is how can they do that? Shouldn't that case be closed? Shouldn't every case be closed if no new evidence comes to light? What would be the argument to even consider overturning it? "We have different people to vote on it now"?

I made this point before.   It can't just be overturned based on judges personal feelings.  There has to be a legal precedent to change it and a case has to come before the court to be heard.   Most likely it will never be overturned on a national scale but will fall to each state to decide.  of course there are plenty of backasswards states that will make it mostly illegal.  don't get knocked up in the South ladies.

How would that process work? Whose decision would it be for it to be decided on by the states? Congress?

The Supreme Court can decide to not hear a case thus pushing it back to the states.  not every case appealed to the Supreme Court is heard.   And even if a case is heard by the Supreme Court it would have to be a case directly challenging Roe v. Wade to overturn it and there would have be a legal reason for overturning it. Most likely the cases before the Supreme Court would be challenges to individual states abortion laws.  Theoretically Congress could also pass a national law outlawing abortion but there is no way that would ever get enough votes to pass both the House and Senate.  I just don't see a national ban happening anytime soon or in my lifetime (hopefully that is at least another 30 years).

Ledbetterman10

pjhawks said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

pjhawks said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Here's a Supreme Court question.....

Lots of people are suggesting that if Brett Kavanaugh is confirmed, Roe v. Wade will likely be overturned. My question is how can they do that? Shouldn't that case be closed? Shouldn't every case be closed if no new evidence comes to light? What would be the argument to even consider overturning it? "We have different people to vote on it now"?

I made this point before.   It can't just be overturned based on judges personal feelings.  There has to be a legal precedent to change it and a case has to come before the court to be heard.   Most likely it will never be overturned on a national scale but will fall to each state to decide.  of course there are plenty of backasswards states that will make it mostly illegal.  don't get knocked up in the South ladies.

How would that process work? Whose decision would it be for it to be decided on by the states? Congress?

The Supreme Court can decide to not hear a case thus pushing it back to the states.  not every case appealed to the Supreme Court is heard.   And even if a case is heard by the Supreme Court it would have to be a case directly challenging Roe v. Wade to overturn it and there would have be a legal reason for overturning it. Most likely the cases before the Supreme Court would be challenges to individual states abortion laws.  Theoretically Congress could also pass a national law outlawing abortion but there is no way that would ever get enough votes to pass both the House and Senate.  I just don't see a national ban happening anytime soon or in my lifetime (hopefully that is at least another 30 years).

I only ask because this is one issue I'm solidly with the democrats on. The Right's Pro-Life stance is so fucking hypocritical. I always use this little skit as an example....

Pregnant girl: I'm pregnant but can't afford to raise a child. Can I have an abortion?

Republican guy: NO!!!!!! You can't KILL A BABY!

Pregnant girl: Okay, okay. Sorry I asked. I'll have the baby. But as I said, I can't afford to raise a baby. Can I have some money to feed and clothe the child?

Republican guy: Oh that's not our department. You'll have to talk to the democrats about that one. We want the baby to be born, but once it is, we don't care if it dies.

OnWis97

pjhawks said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

pjhawks said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Here's a Supreme Court question.....

Lots of people are suggesting that if Brett Kavanaugh is confirmed, Roe v. Wade will likely be overturned. My question is how can they do that? Shouldn't that case be closed? Shouldn't every case be closed if no new evidence comes to light? What would be the argument to even consider overturning it? "We have different people to vote on it now"?

I made this point before.   It can't just be overturned based on judges personal feelings.  There has to be a legal precedent to change it and a case has to come before the court to be heard.   Most likely it will never be overturned on a national scale but will fall to each state to decide.  of course there are plenty of backasswards states that will make it mostly illegal.  don't get knocked up in the South ladies.

How would that process work? Whose decision would it be for it to be decided on by the states? Congress?

The Supreme Court can decide to not hear a case thus pushing it back to the states.  not every case appealed to the Supreme Court is heard.   And even if a case is heard by the Supreme Court it would have to be a case directly challenging Roe v. Wade to overturn it and there would have be a legal reason for overturning it. Most likely the cases before the Supreme Court would be challenges to individual states abortion laws.  Theoretically Congress could also pass a national law outlawing abortion but there is no way that would ever get enough votes to pass both the House and Senate.  I just don't see a national ban happening anytime soon or in my lifetime (hopefully that is at least another 30 years).

Yeah, Kavanaugh can't just walk in, ask for a show of hands and announce "5 to 4: Row V Wade has been reversed."  But I am sure some state will do something that contradicts roe v wade and it'll get reversed at the Supreme court. It's probably a matter of "when" more than "if."  I imagine it'll take a couple of years, but it is absolutely going to get reversed.

That doesn't mean you'll see a national ban.  It just means that states will be able to ban it.  And most, but not all, will.  Nearly half the states, I think, already have a law in place that if RvW is reversed abortion becomes illegal.  I anticipate people that helped make those laws sending their wives, daughters, granddaughters and mistresses to the other states when an inconvenience occurs.

Gern Blansten

cincybearcat said:

I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

that's exactly what it is

Gern Blansten

I think it is interesting that abortion is legal in Israel and we give Israel so much $$$.  Following the GOP mantra we should defund Israel to stop funding abortions.

mace1229

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.

I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.

flywallyfly

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

Right ! Not even the newest supercomputer can calculate such large numbers of statistical data....oh, wait.....

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

that's exactly what it is

Not entirely true at all.

But like I said, the majority have bought in. And the Supreme Court has decided. So for me it’s not an issue I vote based on as it’s pointless.

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.

I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.

I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

You can only save one.  Which do you save?

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.

I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.

I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

You can only save one.  Which do you save?

These are all so stupid. 

Gern Blansten

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.

I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.

I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

You can only save one.  Which do you save?

These are all so stupid. 

So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

and...which one would you save?

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.

I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.

I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

You can only save one.  Which do you save?

These are all so stupid. 

So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

and...which one would you save?

Shall I come up with a stupid story too?

Gern Blansten

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.

I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.

I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

You can only save one.  Which do you save?

These are all so stupid. 

So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

and...which one would you save?

Shall I come up with a stupid story too?

we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense

tbergs

mace1229 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.

I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.

When you say educate, do you mean before they are pregnant or once they are? Just want to make sure I understand that statement before responding.

As for means, does this mean money and support for all the babies we would be forcing people to have that they didn't want? Plenty of kids pull themselves out of the dirt to make something of their life, but I feel like the majority in these types of circumstances would end up wards of the state, bouncing around to foster and group homes, especially if these are children who have birth defects, deformities and similar health issues.

We have some friends who found out the baby they were going to have had down syndrome based on testing. I don't know how far along they were, but it was under the 24 week window. They decided they couldn't go through with the pregnancy and didn't feel like they could raise a child with a disability. Not an easy decision, but they have to know. No one else's decision. I may not understand or agree with it, but it also has no impact on me.

I am pro-choice, but do think that there should at least be a stipulation to prevent someone from using abortion as a means of birth control. I doubt there are many out there, but in cases where multiple abortions are being sought for no other reason than not wanting to have a baby because of continued poor choices, than that shouldn't be allowed. 

Gern Blansten

I think it is interesting that so many Repubs want to defund Planned Parenthood when the majority of what they do is provide birth control.  Defunding PP will lead to more abortion.

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

I think it is interesting that so many Repubs want to defund Planned Parenthood when the majority of what they do is provide birth control.  Defunding PP will lead to more abortion.

Very true.

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.

I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.

I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

You can only save one.  Which do you save?

These are all so stupid. 

So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

and...which one would you save?

Shall I come up with a stupid story too?

we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense

In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.

Gern Blansten

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.

I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.

I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

You can only save one.  Which do you save?

These are all so stupid. 

So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

and...which one would you save?

Shall I come up with a stupid story too?

we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense

In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.

the cause of the fire is irrelevant....but thanks for not confirming the answer that we already knew

Thirty Bills Unpaid

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

cincybearcat said:

I find it amazing that the left has completely turned abortion into “women’s medical rights”. And the majority of the country has bought in. Sad.

I find it amazing that in the 21st century... we still have people clinging to the idea that there is an omnipresent god that knows what 8 billion people are up to at any given moment and listens to millions of individual prayers at one time.

I find it further amazing that this coocoo belief is allowed to drive policies which affect human beings.

I am one of those coocoo’s. But here is what I think so many don’t understand. I’ve never read anything in the Bible anti abortion. Religion doesn’t drive my pro-life stance. And I don’t think it does for many.
its the belief that it’s a human life, and that human life deserves a chance.
Convince me that a fetus is not a human life and I wouldn’t care about this topic anymore.
I consider myself pro-life, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to ban abortions. Our country isn’t ready for that and we’d be worse off if that was the case. I think many on the pro-life side approach it in the wrong way. Instead I’d prefer to educate and provide means to make abortions unnecessary execpt out of medical necessities.

I heard an interesting story that sums it all up for me.

Imagine you are walking by a fertility clinic and you see flames/smoke billowing out of the front door....you hear screams.

You go through the front door and to your left is a 5 year old child....to your right is a box marked "1000 viable embryos"

You can only save one.  Which do you save?

These are all so stupid. 

So is the idea that a government can tell a woman what to do with her own body.

and...which one would you save?

Shall I come up with a stupid story too?

we all know your answer....it's the only one that makes sense

In your scenario you can only save 1. In mine you don’t have to start the fire.

Good job ducking the question.

I'll answer. I'd save the child before the 1000 boxes of goop.

oftenreading

Roe vs Wade is settled law and will be difficult to overturn. However, that doesn’t stop individual states from making it virtually impossible to get an abortion. Iowa already bans abortions as early as six weeks. Given the series of events that has to occur for a woman to suspect she is pregnant, get a test that confirms it, gets an appointment with a doctor, then gets an abortion scheduled, Iowa has virtually banned abortion except in rare cases with R v W in place.