Tax Reform

CM189191

bootlegger10 said:

But all their employees paid taxes.

Did they?  All of them?

And so what if they did? Are you suggesting there should be no corporate taxes for employers at all?

tbergs

CM189191 said:

bootlegger10 said:

But all their employees paid taxes.

Did they?  All of them?

And so what if they did? Are you suggesting there should be no corporate taxes for employers at all?

I think he may have actually been pointing out the irony of the fact that the multi-billion dollar companies paid zero, but their employees paid. I could be wrong...

mcgruff10

F Me In The Brain said:

Net $15,000 loss for this family.

Fuck off Trump, you fucking cunt.

Fuck. Sorry bud. 

F Me In The Brain

mcgruff10 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Net $15,000 loss for this family.

Fuck off Trump, you fucking cunt.

Fuck. Sorry bud. 

Need to go through the work of starting a business and find 10-15k to run through it to get back the write offs. 

I have it much better than many and paying a lot means you do OK for yourself, overall, so there is that to be thankful for.

A bit of a kick in the balls, nonetheless.

CM189191

tbergs said:

CM189191 said:

bootlegger10 said:

But all their employees paid taxes.

Did they?  All of them?

And so what if they did? Are you suggesting there should be no corporate taxes for employers at all?

I think he may have actually been pointing out the irony of the fact that the multi-billion dollar companies paid zero, but their employees paid. I could be wrong...

I get where he was going, but....

More than 44% of Americans pay no federal income tax

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/8420B192-419B-11E8-BC0F-78BBBBAE6CDC

F Me In The Brain

CM189191 said:

tbergs said:

CM189191 said:

bootlegger10 said:

But all their employees paid taxes.

Did they?  All of them?

And so what if they did? Are you suggesting there should be no corporate taxes for employers at all?

I think he may have actually been pointing out the irony of the fact that the multi-billion dollar companies paid zero, but their employees paid. I could be wrong...

I get where he was going, but....

More than 44% of Americans pay no federal income tax

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/8420B192-419B-11E8-BC0F-78BBBBAE6CDC

Misleading, I believe.  The quote there is about people not having to pony up more at the end of the year.  Unless I misread....

“The large percentage of people who don’t owe federal income tax is a feature, not a bug, of the revenue code,” according to the Tax Policy Center. “By design, the federal income tax always has excluded a significant fraction of households through a combination of personal exemptions, the standard deduction, zero bracket amounts, and more recently, tax credits.”

I don't owe, I get a check back.  And, fucking A right I should -- but it is far less than I received back in the past.  Anyone who tells me I don't pay any federal income tax is nuts.  I pay a shit-ton -- I just don't owe more at the balance of the year because more than enough was taken out from my paychecks.  Being in Sales and getting periodic large commission checks totally fucks me.  Used to make up for it at the end of the year but now it seems that DJ-Talky-Talk and his new plan are happy keeping the extra to spend on $1,000 fucking toilet seats.

Gern Blansten

It was all smoke and mirrors.  The GOP wanted to get your net pay up before the election so that you would think they cut your taxes.  Turns out it was a money grab for the rich and very little for anyone else.

Refunds dropped because withholdings dropped. In my opinion that isn't necessarily a bad thing but when the GOP sold it like they did it fucking sucks.

curmudgeoness

I'm still waiting to hear who the "rich" were who got a break. We're solidly in the 1% and speaking as the person who does our taxes, our tax burden went up last year. I imagine it would have been a different story had we lived in Texas instead of California, but, still.

Gern Blansten

Did your income go up?   Hard to say why your taxes would have gone up unless you were one of the unlucky ones whose itemized deductions were negatively affected due to the $10K limit on state tax deductions.

curmudgeoness

Gern Blansten said:

Did your income go up?   Hard to say why your taxes would have gone up unless you were one of the unlucky ones whose itemized deductions were negatively affected due to the $10K limit on state tax deductions.

Nope, it was down 40% from 2017.

Gern Blansten

curmudgeoness said:

Gern Blansten said:

Did your income go up?   Hard to say why your taxes would have gone up unless you were one of the unlucky ones whose itemized deductions were negatively affected due to the $10K limit on state tax deductions.

Nope, it was down 40% from 2017.

So how do you know your taxes went up?  I mean, if your income was the same you could easily compare.

F Me In The Brain

curmudgeoness said:

I'm still waiting to hear who the "rich" were who got a break. We're solidly in the 1% and speaking as the person who does our taxes, our tax burden went up last year. I imagine it would have been a different story had we lived in Texas instead of California, but, still.

The lead here for me isn't that you are in the 1% and that you paid more in taxes....it is that you are in the 1% and you do your own taxes.

Are you a trained professional?

Although, judging by what we went through with our CPA this year, until we start our own business there may not be much of a use for their assistance, unlike so many of the years past....

Sorry to hear you had to pay more.  It is a giant bunch of bs.

CM189191

F Me In The Brain said:

curmudgeoness said:

I'm still waiting to hear who the "rich" were who got a break. We're solidly in the 1% and speaking as the person who does our taxes, our tax burden went up last year. I imagine it would have been a different story had we lived in Texas instead of California, but, still.

The lead here for me isn't that you are in the 1% and that you paid more in taxes....it is that you are in the 1% and you do your own taxes.

Are you a trained professional?

Although, judging by what we went through with our CPA this year, until we start our own business there may not be much of a use for their assistance, unlike so many of the years past....

Sorry to hear you had to pay more.  It is a giant bunch of bs.

*ding*

Halifax2TheMax

Good ol trickle down, spurring that 4% GDP quarterly growth, quarter over quarter, year after year, lifting all boats. Suckers.

https://apple.news/A03-HObL2SzCslcbbtEdV6Q

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

Good ol trickle down, spurring that 4% GDP quarterly growth, quarter over quarter, year after year, lifting all boats. Suckers.

https://apple.news/A03-HObL2SzCslcbbtEdV6Q

This is an issue on which to run.  

Halifax2TheMax

So much for that 4% GDP, quarter over quarter, year over year, FOR 10 YEARS, that was going to pay for that tax break for the 1%. Meanwhile, corporations are paying an effective rate of 11% and some, like Amazon, are paying 0. What a country. Oh, and lets not forget the billions in additional debt and deficit spending. Guess who is going to eventually pay for that? Suckers.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/20/us-gdp-q3-2019-final-reading.html

Gern Blansten

Yep....and believe me the charitable organizations are going to start feeling it.  The standard deduction is so high that many people are not seeing a benefit to contribute.

Halifax2TheMax

Suckers, still believing in trickle down, particularly when half of working Americans didn’t see a raise last year. Gee, where did all that tax cut money go?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/20/perspectives/trump-tax-cuts/index.html

tbergs

More good news for big business as the coronavirus stimulus package helps lift some of those restrictions included in the tax reform bill.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/business/tax-breaks-wealthy-virus.html

mickeyrat

and this is how some on Europe do it...

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/france-joins-denmark-and-poland-in-banning-tax-haven-firms-from-coronavirus-relief/23/04/?fbclid=IwAR0hw-bH7B24ugd-qZetmDSiQZmB8Ys1PFP8avgY5sL4ngK-XRfWIcymvYQ

Halifax2TheMax

Sounds reasonable to me. Sleepy Woke Joe has a plan. And remember, deficits don't pay for themselves, despite that 4% growth in GDP, quarter over quarter for 10 years like Stevey Baby MNutkins promised to pay for that $1.5T tax cut and 50% of Americans aren't in the stock market. And because the 1/10th of 1% need more, right?

For someone far more interested in how his presidency looks on TV than what it actually does, Donald Trump can be remarkably tone-deaf when it comes to the political implications of his policy proposals. But there are some things the president and his party are committed to, no matter how unpopular they might be.

So it is that, with 30 million Americans out of work and the country still in the midst of a pandemic that Trump has lost all interest in doing anything about, his administration has an answer to our economic troubles: Cut the capital gains tax!

I kid you not.

Capital gains taxes are paid on things such as the sale of stocks, which is why they’re overwhelmingly paid by the wealthy. The fact that capital gains are taxed at all is deeply offensive to Republicans, and if the tax can’t be eliminated entirely, at the very least, they believe it should be lowered as much as possible.

A capital gains tax cut is the solution to both good times and bad: If the economy is doing well, we should cut the tax to reward virtuous job creators; if it’s doing poorly we should cut the tax to free up brutally imprisoned capital for more job creation. You see, standard Republican trickle-down economic theory says the way to achieve prosperity is to cut taxes for the rich, who in their beneficence will allow some of their windfall to trickle down to the commoners.

During a press briefing on Monday, the president made sure everyone knew how great the economy is doing, noting that “We’ve had some tremendous success already if you look at what’s happening with the stock market.” Then, he went on:

But the — we’re looking at also considering a capital gains tax cut, which would create a lot more jobs. So we’re looking very seriously at a capital gains tax cut and also at an income tax cut for middle-income families. We’re looking at expanding the tax cuts that we’ve already done, but specifically for middle-income families, and you’ll be hearing about that in the upcoming few weeks, and I think it’ll be very exciting.

So, a capital gains tax is going to be — a lot of — a lot of people put to work, and it would be a cut in the capital gains tax and also a cut in the middle-income income tax.

No one had any idea what kind of middle-class tax cut he was talking about, and Trump often says he is “looking at” something when he really isn’t. (In fact, he often answers “We’re looking at that very strongly” when asked a question on policy, which usually translates as “I have no idea what that is about but I’m going to pretend it’s something I’m deeply informed and active on.”)

In this case, however, the administration really is “looking at” a capital gains tax cut, or at least hoping for it. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin told reporters on Wednesday that one of the key differences between Trump and former vice president Joe Biden is that the presumptive Democratic nominee wants to raise capital gains taxes while Trump wants to lower them. “While we recover, we should reduce those capital gains,” Mnuchin said.

But cutting the tax would require legislation, and with Democrats controlling the House, that won’t happen. Some believe, however, that the president might have the authority to order the Treasury Department to index capital gains to inflation, which would be the same as a cut. For instance, if you bought a stock 10 years ago for $100 and sold it for $150 today, you’d pay taxes not on the $50 profit but on $150 minus the inflation-adjusted value of $100 from 10 years ago. Which just happens to be $149.94, meaning you’d have to pay taxes on only $0.06.

You can see why that prospect would make Republicans’ hearts go aflutter. According to one analysis, 63 percent of the benefits of indexing capital gains to inflation would go to the richest one-tenth of one percent of Americans.

You almost have to admire Republicans’ commitment to principle. The election is less than three months away, the country is in the grip of a recession, and they’re proposing a tax cut for the wealthy. It’s not because some poll or focus group told them it was a good idea politically, because it’s an absolutely terrible idea. They’re doing it because they believe in it.

And Mnuchin is right: Biden does, indeed, want to raise the capital gains tax. In fact, Biden’s economic plan is probably more liberal than you realize, and on investment income, it embodies an idea some of us have been shouting about for years: We should just tax all income at the same rate. Instead of giving preferential treatment to investment income as we do now, we should tax it the same as wage income. There’s no reason that the money you make when your money makes you more money should be taxed at a lower rate than the money you earn by working. That’s how it works now, and it’s completely upside-down.

The income tax goes up to 37 percent, but the capital gains tax tops out at 20 percent. Biden proposes to tax them the same: if you make $50,000 from your job or $50,000 from selling a bunch of stock, it would be taxed at the same rate. It’s simple and logical, but it would mean a profound change from the status quo, in which the interests of rich people always come first.

Like many of the things Biden has proposed, it will produce a brutal fight if and when it is written into legislation. The thing about rich people is that they are very much opposed to paying more in taxes, and they use their money to make sure the tax code serves their interests. But Biden should thank Trump and his administration for drawing attention to this issue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/08/12/brilliant-political-move-trump-proposes-tax-cut-wealthy/?hpid=hp_save-opinions-float-right-4-0_opinion-card-a-right:homepage/story-ans

CM189191

cincybearcat

Wait - in that long post it mentions taxing capital gains at the rate of income???  That's a pretty terrible idea unless it starts at an awful high income level.  Guess I'll have to go look.  If it applies to day traders it makes sense.  If it applies to people's 401ks once they start cashing them out for retirement...it's dumb as hell.

Gern Blansten

cincybearcat said:

Wait - in that long post it mentions taxing capital gains at the rate of income???  That's a pretty terrible idea unless it starts at an awful high income level.  Guess I'll have to go look.  If it applies to day traders it makes sense.  If it applies to people's 401ks once they start cashing them out for retirement...it's dumb as hell.

401ks have always been taxed at ordinary rates.  Same with IRAs, annuities, etc.

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Wait - in that long post it mentions taxing capital gains at the rate of income???  That's a pretty terrible idea unless it starts at an awful high income level.  Guess I'll have to go look.  If it applies to day traders it makes sense.  If it applies to people's 401ks once they start cashing them out for retirement...it's dumb as hell.

401ks have always been taxed at ordinary rates.  Same with IRAs, annuities, etc.

Hahaha that's a good point in regards to 401k....I'm not really sure what I was thinking.

Gern Blansten

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Wait - in that long post it mentions taxing capital gains at the rate of income???  That's a pretty terrible idea unless it starts at an awful high income level.  Guess I'll have to go look.  If it applies to day traders it makes sense.  If it applies to people's 401ks once they start cashing them out for retirement...it's dumb as hell.

401ks have always been taxed at ordinary rates.  Same with IRAs, annuities, etc.

Hahaha that's a good point in regards to 401k....I'm not really sure what I was thinking.

That's why it is such a stupid idea to buy real estate with a 401k or IRA.  You just turn capital gain income into ordinary income.

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Wait - in that long post it mentions taxing capital gains at the rate of income???  That's a pretty terrible idea unless it starts at an awful high income level.  Guess I'll have to go look.  If it applies to day traders it makes sense.  If it applies to people's 401ks once they start cashing them out for retirement...it's dumb as hell.

401ks have always been taxed at ordinary rates.  Same with IRAs, annuities, etc.

Hahaha that's a good point in regards to 401k....I'm not really sure what I was thinking.

That's why it is such a stupid idea to buy real estate with a 401k or IRA.  You just turn capital gain income into ordinary income.

Yup.  Again, you are right.  I blame Monday.

mrussel1

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Wait - in that long post it mentions taxing capital gains at the rate of income???  That's a pretty terrible idea unless it starts at an awful high income level.  Guess I'll have to go look.  If it applies to day traders it makes sense.  If it applies to people's 401ks once they start cashing them out for retirement...it's dumb as hell.

401ks have always been taxed at ordinary rates.  Same with IRAs, annuities, etc.

Hahaha that's a good point in regards to 401k....I'm not really sure what I was thinking.

That's why it is such a stupid idea to buy real estate with a 401k or IRA.  You just turn capital gain income into ordinary income.

A lot of people did that in the late 90s, early 2000's.  They were buying their first homes with 401k loans.  Bad, bad idea unfortunately. 

mrussel1

CM189191 said:

I'm sorry, I think it's terrible for people to think positively of the French Revolution, even just a little bit.  The fact that a popular left wing rag is called Jacobin is shameful.  

static111

mrussel1 said:

CM189191 said:

I'm sorry, I think it's terrible for people to think positively of the French Revolution, even just a little bit.  The fact that a popular left wing rag is called Jacobin is shameful.  

What revolutions do you think are ok?