Why are the national parks not closed? All of ours were closed off to the public during the fires or evacuated before hand with fire predictions. No gatherings, camping or festivals were allowed during the months of dangerous fire weather in or near bushland. Many were stranded on the south coast when they didn't take the evacuations seriously and and we're all forced onto the beach and the Navy had to evacuate thousands by boat. Day turned to night under the thick smoke. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-07/california-wildfires-bushfires-airlifted/12635578
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,718
Why are the national parks not closed? All of ours were closed off to the public during the fires or evacuated before hand with fire predictions. No gatherings, camping or festivals were allowed during the months of dangerous fire weather in or near bushland. Many were stranded on the south coast when they didn't take the evacuations seriously and and we're all forced onto the beach and the Navy had to evacuate thousands by boat. Day turned to night under the thick smoke. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-07/california-wildfires-bushfires-airlifted/12635578
Actually, most National and State Parks are closed in the U.S. The misunderstanding is easy to make. In the U.S., we have many federal and state lands that are not part of the park system. These includes lands that are very large and would be almost impossible to keep people out of, so they are allowed access for various recreational purposes. These lands include National Forests, State Forests, and BLM (Bureau of Land Management) Land.
(There are also other federal lands such as National Recreation Areas, National Wild and Scenic River Systems, and Wilderness areas. Many of these are closed and/ or require permits for access right now.)
The area where the people were rescued from the fires is in the Sierra National Forest. Those folks were legally on those lands.
This kind of thing doesn't happen often, but it can, especially here in the west at this time of year. I would never enter a State or Federal Recreation or Lands area this time of year that did not have multiple routes for egress- and even then it can be dangerous to be out there. And it gets worse every year, much of that due to climate change and over-usage, excess development, and over-population.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
What brilliant genius decided, "Hey, it's 110 degrees, and dry as a bone, and we're high fire-danger season. Lets play with a smoke generating pyrotechnic device out in the great outdoors!"
And isn't it always encouraging to know geniuses are busy reproducing?! Oh joy!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Why are the national parks not closed? All of ours were closed off to the public during the fires or evacuated before hand with fire predictions. No gatherings, camping or festivals were allowed during the months of dangerous fire weather in or near bushland. Many were stranded on the south coast when they didn't take the evacuations seriously and and we're all forced onto the beach and the Navy had to evacuate thousands by boat. Day turned to night under the thick smoke. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-07/california-wildfires-bushfires-airlifted/12635578
Hasn’t covid revealed America as the ugly truth it is? When Victoria gets a couple hundred cases, they shut down and all the AFL teams flee the state. In NY, when we got down to 700 cases they celebrated like the Islanders won the Stanley Cup (one can only hope). And baseball teams get infected players they are back to playing in 4 days.
And schools are about to reopen with zero preventative testing. The only way we find out if someone has covid in our children’s school is after an infected kid has been running thru the halls with it for a few days.
If kids get covid in ny but are asymptomatic, and their parents get it, it could take a lot of time to trace it back to the schools. And no one is complaining.
That, is America. Now you wanted to close their parks where they hunt and fish??
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,718
Why are the national parks not closed? All of ours were closed off to the public during the fires or evacuated before hand with fire predictions. No gatherings, camping or festivals were allowed during the months of dangerous fire weather in or near bushland. Many were stranded on the south coast when they didn't take the evacuations seriously and and we're all forced onto the beach and the Navy had to evacuate thousands by boat. Day turned to night under the thick smoke. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-07/california-wildfires-bushfires-airlifted/12635578
Hasn’t covid revealed America as the ugly truth it is? When Victoria gets a couple hundred cases, they shut down and all the AFL teams flee the state. In NY, when we got down to 700 cases they celebrated like the Islanders won the Stanley Cup (one can only hope). And baseball teams get infected players they are back to playing in 4 days.
And schools are about to reopen with zero preventative testing. The only way we find out if someone has covid in our children’s school is after an infected kid has been running thru the halls with it for a few days.
If kids get covid in ny but are asymptomatic, and their parents get it, it could take a lot of time to trace it back to the schools. And no one is complaining.
That, is America. Now you wanted to close their parks where they hunt and fish??
Yeah, we really blew it with COVID.
But as far as parks go, there's just no way we can keep people out of National Forest. El Dorado National Forest, for example, which is not far up the road from where I live, has so many roads in and out of it, there's no way they could keep people out.
And here's what I said earlier:
Actually, most National and State Parks are closed in the U.S.
The misunderstanding is easy to make. In the U.S., we have many federal
and state lands that are not part of the park system. These includes
lands that are very large and would be almost impossible to keep people
out of, so they are allowed access for various recreational purposes.
These lands include National Forests, State Forests, and BLM (Bureau of
Land Management) Land.
(There are also
other federal lands such as National Recreation Areas, National Wild and
Scenic River Systems, and Wilderness areas. Many of these are closed
and/ or require permits for access right now.)
The
area where the people were rescued from the fires is in the Sierra
National Forest. Those folks were legally on those lands.
This
kind of thing doesn't happen often, but it can, especially here in the
west at this time of year. I would never enter a State or Federal
Recreation or Lands area this time of year that did not have multiple
routes for egress- and even then it can be dangerous to be out there.
And it gets worse every year, much of that due to climate change and
over-usage, excess development, and over-population.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Why are the national parks not closed? All of ours were closed off to the public during the fires or evacuated before hand with fire predictions. No gatherings, camping or festivals were allowed during the months of dangerous fire weather in or near bushland. Many were stranded on the south coast when they didn't take the evacuations seriously and and we're all forced onto the beach and the Navy had to evacuate thousands by boat. Day turned to night under the thick smoke. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-07/california-wildfires-bushfires-airlifted/12635578
My wife just read me something she saw on her phone about several National Forest areas being closed. I don't recall that ever happening other than during a fire in which it is common to have road closures. But now apparently there are a lot of preventative road closures going on. Anyone going out into the woods right now here in California would be crazy to do so.
So the next few days at least will be nerve wracking as hell and the rest of the dry season as well. My guts are churning like a meat grinder. Must be "Miller time". (My father used to call any time he wanted a drink, Miller time, but I don't recall him ever drinking Miller. I drink Pacifico at Miller time, lol.)
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,718
Beside
a nearly ubiquitous and omnipresent pall of smoke hanging over much of
California (including our own place here in El Dorado County), a
heaviness hangs over most of the people I've talked to or run into
recently. Our thoughts and concerns are burdensome. With the
exception of those with little or no sense of the hazards of
unrestrained wildfire (see post #110 above), worry is the near constant
mindset of many, and vigilance of those more inclined to having acute
survival instincts.
What
is happening in this state is unprecedented- certainly in my life time
beginning in 1951- and probably for all of recorded history since
statehood here, which in two days will bee 170 years. California has
now set a new record of 2 million acres burned, and we are still early
in the fire season. As bad as things have been the last few weeks,
suddenly a new inferno has ignited. The unprecedented Creek Fire is
raging in Sierra National Forest, tearing a a viscous rate through
forests that are 80-90% dead due to bark beetle infestation. That
latter fact alone suggests at least a few tangents of deep concern.
I
guess none of this should come as a surprise. Nature works by way of a
system of balances. Short of total destruction, nature will always
operate on a system of balances. Mother Nature has kicked what she does
into high gear and no one is standing in her way. That's easy to say
and understand from a biological perspective. It's damn frightening
from a human perspective.
I and many others will rejoice when our first rains come this year.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Beside
a nearly ubiquitous and omnipresent pall of smoke hanging over much of
California (including our own place here in El Dorado County), a
heaviness hangs over most of the people I've talked to or run into
recently. Our thoughts and concerns are burdensome. With the
exception of those with little or no sense of the hazards of
unrestrained wildfire (see post #110 above), worry is the near constant
mindset of many, and vigilance of those more inclined to having acute
survival instincts.
What
is happening in this state is unprecedented- certainly in my life time
beginning in 1951- and probably for all of recorded history since
statehood here, which in two days will bee 170 years. California has
now set a new record of 2 million acres burned, and we are still early
in the fire season. As bad as things have been the last few weeks,
suddenly a new inferno has ignited. The unprecedented Creek Fire is
raging in Sierra National Forest, tearing a a viscous rate through
forests that are 80-90% dead due to bark beetle infestation. That
latter fact alone suggests at least a few tangents of deep concern.
I
guess none of this should come as a surprise. Nature works by way of a
system of balances. Short of total destruction, nature will always
operate on a system of balances. Mother Nature has kicked what she does
into high gear and no one is standing in her way. That's easy to say
and understand from a biological perspective. It's damn frightening
from a human perspective.
I and many others will rejoice when our first rains come this year.
Brian, let us know if you need anything. Stay safe!
I just stepped outside and it is really smoky out - I actually thought there must be a fire right near my home, like a building or a green strip or something. There isn't a big wildfire problem up here this summer - it's been a pretty cool and rainy summer thank goodness; far fewer big fires than usual. I had to get online and figure out what's going on, and it turns out all the smoke from these terrible fires in the US is blowing up into BC now. Awful situation.
I've said it before, but I'll say it again: it seems like much of California is moving towards being basically uninhabitable. Are people leaving in droves yet?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Yeah, yesterday evening in the Seattle area things went to hell. Air quality fell off a cliff. We were getting some CA smoke all last week, but the winds changed and started blowing in from the East, and we have a bunch of fires on the eastern side of the state. So the wind shift combined with a high pressure system over us totally smoked us out. We went from good to unhealthy in the matter of an hour. Everyone had to shut windows (and with no AC and hotter temps, that sucks!). Today cleared some of it out so it is better, but will be at the unhealthy level for a couple of more days. Hopefully by Thursday or Friday back down to moderate or good status. Awful.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I just stepped outside and it is really smoky out - I actually thought there must be a fire right near my home, like a building or a green strip or something. There isn't a big wildfire problem up here this summer - it's been a pretty cool and rainy summer thank goodness; far fewer big fires than usual. I had to get online and figure out what's going on, and it turns out all the smoke from these terrible fires in the US is blowing up into BC now. Awful situation.
I've said it before, but I'll say it again: it seems like much of California is moving towards being basically uninhabitable. Are people leaving in droves yet?
It’s still quite habitable...in places.
Air’s been just awful the past week or so. Today’s the first in a while in feels decent. Still looks terrible though. The smoke and sun make for this weird, bright-dark glare.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,718
Beside
a nearly ubiquitous and omnipresent pall of smoke hanging over much of
California (including our own place here in El Dorado County), a
heaviness hangs over most of the people I've talked to or run into
recently. Our thoughts and concerns are burdensome. With the
exception of those with little or no sense of the hazards of
unrestrained wildfire (see post #110 above), worry is the near constant
mindset of many, and vigilance of those more inclined to having acute
survival instincts.
What
is happening in this state is unprecedented- certainly in my life time
beginning in 1951- and probably for all of recorded history since
statehood here, which in two days will bee 170 years. California has
now set a new record of 2 million acres burned, and we are still early
in the fire season. As bad as things have been the last few weeks,
suddenly a new inferno has ignited. The unprecedented Creek Fire is
raging in Sierra National Forest, tearing a a viscous rate through
forests that are 80-90% dead due to bark beetle infestation. That
latter fact alone suggests at least a few tangents of deep concern.
I
guess none of this should come as a surprise. Nature works by way of a
system of balances. Short of total destruction, nature will always
operate on a system of balances. Mother Nature has kicked what she does
into high gear and no one is standing in her way. That's easy to say
and understand from a biological perspective. It's damn frightening
from a human perspective.
I and many others will rejoice when our first rains come this year.
Brian, let us know if you need anything. Stay safe!
Thanks so much, S!
We're doing OK but the smoke has been overwhelming today and there yet another new fire up the hill from us a ways. I seriously doubt this one will get too close but these fires are popping up like Whac-A-Moles. California is up to 2.2 million acres burning and we're hardly out of the starting gate with fire season. It's unnerving as hell!
That said, I rejoice at the good things in life as much as possible. Several good things happened today:
-I didn't have to confront my chiropractor about wearing a mask- every one had masks on.
-My dentist told me everything is in great shape- no new fillings!
-I found a few decent records to take into the shop today.
-The power stayed on (holy crap! That's a blessing and a half!)
-And a friend gave me some bubble wrap today. Bubble-fucking-wrap!!! Whoo hooo!!!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
My daughter's clothes masks have Particulate Matter 2.5 filters, which I am having her wear when outside for short, non-strenuous periods. That is a benefit of having masks as the norm.
I am so glad the smoke stayed away for most of the summer. Too bad it is coinciding with time when teachers should be planning education while outdoors.
I am not planning vacations anymore. I plan to have impromptu getaways when the air is harmful.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,718
edited September 2020
Huge numbers of new acreage burning today and it was the worst day here so far for smoke. Everybody feels it.
A broader picture would show even more than this to the south.
I just Read some idiots lit 🔥 off firework at gender reveal party. In or around LA? I think. Selfish assholes.
I still never heard if it was a boy or a girl. After all this, I kind of want to know now.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Aside from the parents-to-be and maybe some close family or friends, do people really care what sex the fetus is? I mean, to the point of such hoopla? Even in "normal" times, I find the whole thing silly and overly self-involved.
Beside
a nearly ubiquitous and omnipresent pall of smoke hanging over much of
California (including our own place here in El Dorado County), a
heaviness hangs over most of the people I've talked to or run into
recently. Our thoughts and concerns are burdensome. With the
exception of those with little or no sense of the hazards of
unrestrained wildfire (see post #110 above), worry is the near constant
mindset of many, and vigilance of those more inclined to having acute
survival instincts.
What
is happening in this state is unprecedented- certainly in my life time
beginning in 1951- and probably for all of recorded history since
statehood here, which in two days will bee 170 years. California has
now set a new record of 2 million acres burned, and we are still early
in the fire season. As bad as things have been the last few weeks,
suddenly a new inferno has ignited. The unprecedented Creek Fire is
raging in Sierra National Forest, tearing a a viscous rate through
forests that are 80-90% dead due to bark beetle infestation. That
latter fact alone suggests at least a few tangents of deep concern.
I
guess none of this should come as a surprise. Nature works by way of a
system of balances. Short of total destruction, nature will always
operate on a system of balances. Mother Nature has kicked what she does
into high gear and no one is standing in her way. That's easy to say
and understand from a biological perspective. It's damn frightening
from a human perspective.
I and many others will rejoice when our first rains come this year.
Brian, let us know if you need anything. Stay safe!
Thanks so much, S!
We're doing OK but the smoke has been overwhelming today and there yet another new fire up the hill from us a ways. I seriously doubt this one will get too close but these fires are popping up like Whac-A-Moles. California is up to 2.2 million acres burning and we're hardly out of the starting gate with fire season. It's unnerving as hell!
That said, I rejoice at the good things in life as much as possible. Several good things happened today:
-I didn't have to confront my chiropractor about wearing a mask- every one had masks on.
-My dentist told me everything is in great shape- no new fillings!
-I found a few decent records to take into the shop today.
-The power stayed on (holy crap! That's a blessing and a half!)
-And a friend gave me some bubble wrap today. Bubble-fucking-wrap!!! Whoo hooo!!!
My parents live in your area and were staying at their river house in Trail, Oregon (about 30 miles from Crater Lake). They had a mandatory evacuation from Trail 2 days ago and on the map the fires are just a couple miles from the house. It took them 3.5 hours to drive 40 miles to Medford due to the fires and evacuations, which was under evacuation warning at the time. I think its been lifted since. They haven't decided if they are coming home because apparently its terrible there too like you said.
Aside from the parents-to-be and maybe some close family or friends, do people really care what sex the fetus is? I mean, to the point of such hoopla? Even in "normal" times, I find the whole thing silly and overly self-involved.
excuse my ignorance, but how does a wildfire get contained? like what are they doing now to stop it?
No problem!
Containment means a fire is unlikely to spread beyond a line that has been cut either but with bulldozers, chain saws, and hand tools such as McCloud or a Pulaski, or by using a back fire. Back fires are fires set outside the perimeter of the fire at a time when the wind will blow the intentionally created fire toward the existing fire. This is where the term "fighting fire with fire" comes from.
Unfortunately, it's not an exact science. The problem is that winds are not 100% predictable, and fires create their own wind and weather.
I only know this much because my wife's former husband was a fire fighter for many years. I also have had a number of fire fighting friends and have a friend who is a fairly high ranking member of Cal Fire. My hat really goes off to these folks. I'm absolutely amazed and grateful for the work they do!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
so one just hopes the fires eventually stop spreading? can this go on for months and months?
That is the hope, for sure. That or rain. In dry places like Calif, it's very hard to contain the giant fires. It often takes rain to put them out or slow them down enough to get a handle on them.
I just read that Oregon (which is suffering tremendous fires as well as us here in Calif.), is expecting rain in three days. So glad for them!
Yes, the fires can last for weeks or even months here in semi-arid California. Some of the big ones burning here now are close to a month and could continue so for weeks to come. We are SO hoping for rain but we don't normally get rain until October or even November.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,718
edited September 2020
Ten years ago, the largest wildfire in California's recorded history was the 1932 Matilija Fire at 220,000 acres. Today the largest wildfire in California history is the currently burning August Complex at 875,059 acres. And that fire is only 25% contained.
We need to vote out all climate change deniers (most of whom are Republicans), vote in environmentally responsible candidates, and then demand greater measures to reduce climate change and demand more than lip service.
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Ten years ago, the largest wildfire in California's recorded history was the 1932 Matilija Fire at 220,000 acres. Today the largest wildfire in California history is the currently burning August Complex at 875,059 acres. And that fire is only 25% contained.
We need to vote out all climate change deniers (most of whom are Republicans), vote in environmentally responsible candidates, and then demand greater measures to reduce climate change and demand more than lip service.
I really, really wish that "most Republicans" and all political refs were removed. Wishful thinking, I know!
The ones I know don't want shit burning, and are willing to help create a better environment for themselves and their children.
Comments
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-07/california-wildfires-bushfires-airlifted/12635578
And schools are about to reopen with zero preventative testing. The only way we find out if someone has covid in our children’s school is after an infected kid has been running thru the halls with it for a few days.
If kids get covid in ny but are asymptomatic, and their parents get it, it could take a lot of time to trace it back to the schools. And no one is complaining.
That, is America. Now you wanted to close their parks where they hunt and fish??
My wife just read me something she saw on her phone about several National Forest areas being closed. I don't recall that ever happening other than during a fire in which it is common to have road closures. But now apparently there are a lot of preventative road closures going on. Anyone going out into the woods right now here in California would be crazy to do so.
I am so glad the smoke stayed away for most of the summer. Too bad it is coinciding with time when teachers should be planning education while outdoors.
I am not planning vacations anymore. I plan to have impromptu getaways when the air is harmful.
They haven't decided if they are coming home because apparently its terrible there too like you said.
The ones I know don't want shit burning, and are willing to help create a better environment for themselves and their children.