Wildfire(s) Out West

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Foo Fighters’ Dave Grohl cooks BBQ for LA firefighters battling California wildfires
https://consequenceofsound.net/2018/11/dave-grohl-bbq-firefighters/?fbclid=IwAR03fz8LMfekIExN_vVXnkDGoq76E5KL3xgg0zaj5j1dUdG1w-0hwtaSqeE

I love the spirit in which Grohl made this gesture but, really, Dave?  BBQ?  Smoked meat in the midst of a town that has more smoke in the air than is healthy already?  Thanks but maybe potato salad and sandwiches or something un-smokey!

I was mostly focused on the gesture.  I will say this if I working that hard and some was offering to grill me up a nice meal...I would say it is a well-earned meal.  

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

bootlegger10 said:

Maybe these aren't the best areas to build communities in?  New Orleans is a great example. 

So like basically all of California isn't the best place to build communities in? They are in a 7 year drought, and counting. There was nothing wrong with these communities when they were built.

Ummm, yeah there kinda was.  Where do they get their water from?

You can't seriously be arguing that california can hold the number of people it does safely?  I mean, this issue seems to be pretty obvious.

I agree, Cincy.

California is definitely what an ecologist would refer to as "beyond carrying capacity".    When I was born here in 1951, the state had  a population of a little over 11 million people.  Raymond Dasmann would not publish his essential The Destruction of California for another 14 years.  The state now has a population of close to 40 million people. 

Oh, and just down the hill, in the very arid town known as Folsom (yes, as is Folsom Prison) the idiot developers are building 10,000 new homes right this very minute with another 30,000 to follow.

We are screwed.  I did not reproduce.  I feel ripped off by humanity.

You really need to talk to the governor about that position of California's Official Unwelcome Officer.  11 million to 40 million, it won't be long before you hit 50 million.  I live in Ontario, a population of 12-13 million and I bitch about the congestion ... and there is a lot of development going on here.  People with 2 kids are building 1/2 million dollar cement palaces, for no other reason, other than they can.

"California's Official Unwelcome Officer"  

aka "The Official State Curmudgeon"

But seriously, I've never given out-of-state folks a bad time.  Some of my favorite Californian's are from out of state... my wife (although she has been here since she was in grade school), Neil Young, some of my local friends, etc., etc.  No, I just give the 'em the facts and let them decide what to do. 

So the facts are not followed up with "you have been here to long, time to go".  

tempo_n_groove

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

bootlegger10 said:

Maybe these aren't the best areas to build communities in?  New Orleans is a great example. 

So like basically all of California isn't the best place to build communities in? They are in a 7 year drought, and counting. There was nothing wrong with these communities when they were built.

Ummm, yeah there kinda was.  Where do they get their water from?

You can't seriously be arguing that california can hold the number of people it does safely?  I mean, this issue seems to be pretty obvious.

I agree, Cincy.

California is definitely what an ecologist would refer to as "beyond carrying capacity".    When I was born here in 1951, the state had  a population of a little over 11 million people.  Raymond Dasmann would not publish his essential The Destruction of California for another 14 years.  The state now has a population of close to 40 million people. 

Oh, and just down the hill, in the very arid town known as Folsom (yes, as is Folsom Prison) the idiot developers are building 10,000 new homes right this very minute with another 30,000 to follow.

We are screwed.  I did not reproduce.  I feel ripped off by humanity.

Wasn't this part of Mulhollands vision?

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

bootlegger10 said:

Maybe these aren't the best areas to build communities in?  New Orleans is a great example. 

So like basically all of California isn't the best place to build communities in? They are in a 7 year drought, and counting. There was nothing wrong with these communities when they were built.

Ummm, yeah there kinda was.  Where do they get their water from?

You can't seriously be arguing that california can hold the number of people it does safely?  I mean, this issue seems to be pretty obvious.

I agree, Cincy.

California is definitely what an ecologist would refer to as "beyond carrying capacity".    When I was born here in 1951, the state had  a population of a little over 11 million people.  Raymond Dasmann would not publish his essential The Destruction of California for another 14 years.  The state now has a population of close to 40 million people. 

Oh, and just down the hill, in the very arid town known as Folsom (yes, as is Folsom Prison) the idiot developers are building 10,000 new homes right this very minute with another 30,000 to follow.

We are screwed.  I did not reproduce.  I feel ripped off by humanity.

You really need to talk to the governor about that position of California's Official Unwelcome Officer.  11 million to 40 million, it won't be long before you hit 50 million.  I live in Ontario, a population of 12-13 million and I bitch about the congestion ... and there is a lot of development going on here.  People with 2 kids are building 1/2 million dollar cement palaces, for no other reason, other than they can.

"California's Official Unwelcome Officer"  

aka "The Official State Curmudgeon"

But seriously, I've never given out-of-state folks a bad time.  Some of my favorite Californian's are from out of state... my wife (although she has been here since she was in grade school), Neil Young, some of my local friends, etc., etc.  No, I just give the 'em the facts and let them decide what to do. 

So the facts are not followed up with "you have been here to long, time to go".  

Naaah.  LOL

I moved up to the state of Washington for a couple years in the early 90's and the joke (sort of) up there was that if you were a Californian people would say, "Welcome to Washington.  Now go home."  Actually saw that on a few bumper stickers as well.  Years later, after I had moved back to California, my wife and traveled up through western Washington through the Spokane area in the van I had at the time and some angry rednecks yelled and cussed at us because we had California plate.  KInda scary.   That's not how I am, of course.

brianlux

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

bootlegger10 said:

Maybe these aren't the best areas to build communities in?  New Orleans is a great example. 

So like basically all of California isn't the best place to build communities in? They are in a 7 year drought, and counting. There was nothing wrong with these communities when they were built.

Ummm, yeah there kinda was.  Where do they get their water from?

You can't seriously be arguing that california can hold the number of people it does safely?  I mean, this issue seems to be pretty obvious.

I agree, Cincy.

California is definitely what an ecologist would refer to as "beyond carrying capacity".    When I was born here in 1951, the state had  a population of a little over 11 million people.  Raymond Dasmann would not publish his essential The Destruction of California for another 14 years.  The state now has a population of close to 40 million people. 

Oh, and just down the hill, in the very arid town known as Folsom (yes, as is Folsom Prison) the idiot developers are building 10,000 new homes right this very minute with another 30,000 to follow.

We are screwed.  I did not reproduce.  I feel ripped off by humanity.

Wasn't this part of Mulhollands vision?

Augh.  Developers.  It's all and only about money for them.  A despicable form of human being.

tempo_n_groove

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

bootlegger10 said:

Maybe these aren't the best areas to build communities in?  New Orleans is a great example. 

So like basically all of California isn't the best place to build communities in? They are in a 7 year drought, and counting. There was nothing wrong with these communities when they were built.

Ummm, yeah there kinda was.  Where do they get their water from?

You can't seriously be arguing that california can hold the number of people it does safely?  I mean, this issue seems to be pretty obvious.

I agree, Cincy.

California is definitely what an ecologist would refer to as "beyond carrying capacity".    When I was born here in 1951, the state had  a population of a little over 11 million people.  Raymond Dasmann would not publish his essential The Destruction of California for another 14 years.  The state now has a population of close to 40 million people. 

Oh, and just down the hill, in the very arid town known as Folsom (yes, as is Folsom Prison) the idiot developers are building 10,000 new homes right this very minute with another 30,000 to follow.

We are screwed.  I did not reproduce.  I feel ripped off by humanity.

You really need to talk to the governor about that position of California's Official Unwelcome Officer.  11 million to 40 million, it won't be long before you hit 50 million.  I live in Ontario, a population of 12-13 million and I bitch about the congestion ... and there is a lot of development going on here.  People with 2 kids are building 1/2 million dollar cement palaces, for no other reason, other than they can.

"California's Official Unwelcome Officer"  

aka "The Official State Curmudgeon"

But seriously, I've never given out-of-state folks a bad time.  Some of my favorite Californian's are from out of state... my wife (although she has been here since she was in grade school), Neil Young, some of my local friends, etc., etc.  No, I just give the 'em the facts and let them decide what to do. 

So the facts are not followed up with "you have been here to long, time to go".  

Naaah.  LOL

I moved up to the state of Washington for a couple years in the early 90's and the joke (sort of) up there was that if you were a Californian people would say, "Welcome to Washington.  Now go home."  Actually saw that on a few bumper stickers as well.  Years later, after I had moved back to California, my wife and traveled up through western Washington through the Spokane area in the van I had at the time and some angry rednecks yelled and cussed at us because we had California plate.  KInda scary.   That's not how I am, of course.

HA!!!  That's so true.  There were shirts and stickers sold in Pike Place that said "Don't Californicate Our State!"  This was in the mid 90's.

brianlux

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

bootlegger10 said:

Maybe these aren't the best areas to build communities in?  New Orleans is a great example. 

So like basically all of California isn't the best place to build communities in? They are in a 7 year drought, and counting. There was nothing wrong with these communities when they were built.

Ummm, yeah there kinda was.  Where do they get their water from?

You can't seriously be arguing that california can hold the number of people it does safely?  I mean, this issue seems to be pretty obvious.

I agree, Cincy.

California is definitely what an ecologist would refer to as "beyond carrying capacity".    When I was born here in 1951, the state had  a population of a little over 11 million people.  Raymond Dasmann would not publish his essential The Destruction of California for another 14 years.  The state now has a population of close to 40 million people. 

Oh, and just down the hill, in the very arid town known as Folsom (yes, as is Folsom Prison) the idiot developers are building 10,000 new homes right this very minute with another 30,000 to follow.

We are screwed.  I did not reproduce.  I feel ripped off by humanity.

You really need to talk to the governor about that position of California's Official Unwelcome Officer.  11 million to 40 million, it won't be long before you hit 50 million.  I live in Ontario, a population of 12-13 million and I bitch about the congestion ... and there is a lot of development going on here.  People with 2 kids are building 1/2 million dollar cement palaces, for no other reason, other than they can.

"California's Official Unwelcome Officer"  

aka "The Official State Curmudgeon"

But seriously, I've never given out-of-state folks a bad time.  Some of my favorite Californian's are from out of state... my wife (although she has been here since she was in grade school), Neil Young, some of my local friends, etc., etc.  No, I just give the 'em the facts and let them decide what to do. 

So the facts are not followed up with "you have been here to long, time to go".  

Naaah.  LOL

I moved up to the state of Washington for a couple years in the early 90's and the joke (sort of) up there was that if you were a Californian people would say, "Welcome to Washington.  Now go home."  Actually saw that on a few bumper stickers as well.  Years later, after I had moved back to California, my wife and traveled up through western Washington through the Spokane area in the van I had at the time and some angry rednecks yelled and cussed at us because we had California plate.  KInda scary.   That's not how I am, of course.

HA!!!  That's so true.  There were shirts and stickers sold in Pike Place that said "Don't Californicate Our State!"  This was in the mid 90's.

Haha!  I remember those too!

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

Foo Fighters’ Dave Grohl cooks BBQ for LA firefighters battling California wildfires
https://consequenceofsound.net/2018/11/dave-grohl-bbq-firefighters/?fbclid=IwAR03fz8LMfekIExN_vVXnkDGoq76E5KL3xgg0zaj5j1dUdG1w-0hwtaSqeE

I love the spirit in which Grohl made this gesture but, really, Dave?  BBQ?  Smoked meat in the midst of a town that has more smoke in the air than is healthy already?  Thanks but maybe potato salad and sandwiches or something un-smokey!

I'd be so much happier with BBQ than I would be about sandwiches!

hedonist

I'm sure it was cooked safely and with no risk to the current fires.  And agreed, Grohl and his cohorts accomplished a compassionate act that made a difference for those who could partake.

I usually pooh-pooh when "celebrities" speak out about their various causes, and find my mind has changed some on this.  In crisis, if someone can use their spotlight for betterment and encouragement for others to do the same, I say go for it.

(I've been Californicated since birth; all are welcome, in my mind.)

Meltdown99

hedonist said:

I'm sure it was cooked safely and with no risk to the current fires.  And agreed, Grohl and his cohorts accomplished a compassionate act that made a difference for those who could partake.

I usually pooh-pooh when "celebrities" speak out about their various causes, and find my mind has changed some on this.  In crisis, if someone can use their spotlight for betterment and encouragement for others to do the same, I say go for it.

(I've been Californicated since birth; all are welcome, in my mind.)

I'm only kidding about being unwelcome in California.  Been there a few times.  Beautiful State. 

Bentleyspop

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

PJ_Soul said:

bootlegger10 said:

Maybe these aren't the best areas to build communities in?  New Orleans is a great example. 

So like basically all of California isn't the best place to build communities in? They are in a 7 year drought, and counting. There was nothing wrong with these communities when they were built.

Ummm, yeah there kinda was.  Where do they get their water from?

You can't seriously be arguing that california can hold the number of people it does safely?  I mean, this issue seems to be pretty obvious.

I agree, Cincy.

California is definitely what an ecologist would refer to as "beyond carrying capacity".    When I was born here in 1951, the state had  a population of a little over 11 million people.  Raymond Dasmann would not publish his essential The Destruction of California for another 14 years.  The state now has a population of close to 40 million people. 

Oh, and just down the hill, in the very arid town known as Folsom (yes, as is Folsom Prison) the idiot developers are building 10,000 new homes right this very minute with another 30,000 to follow.

We are screwed.  I did not reproduce.  I feel ripped off by humanity.

You really need to talk to the governor about that position of California's Official Unwelcome Officer.  11 million to 40 million, it won't be long before you hit 50 million.  I live in Ontario, a population of 12-13 million and I bitch about the congestion ... and there is a lot of development going on here.  People with 2 kids are building 1/2 million dollar cement palaces, for no other reason, other than they can.

"California's Official Unwelcome Officer"  

aka "The Official State Curmudgeon"

But seriously, I've never given out-of-state folks a bad time.  Some of my favorite Californian's are from out of state... my wife (although she has been here since she was in grade school), Neil Young, some of my local friends, etc., etc.  No, I just give the 'em the facts and let them decide what to do. 

So the facts are not followed up with "you have been here to long, time to go".  

Naaah.  LOL

I moved up to the state of Washington for a couple years in the early 90's and the joke (sort of) up there was that if you were a Californian people would say, "Welcome to Washington.  Now go home."  Actually saw that on a few bumper stickers as well.  Years later, after I had moved back to California, my wife and traveled up through western Washington through the Spokane area in the van I had at the time and some angry rednecks yelled and cussed at us because we had California plate.  KInda scary.   That's not how I am, of course.

The same thing happened in Colorado in the 90s.
Californians invaded and natives got their panties in a knot.

josevolution

Damn death toll keeps climbing up to 59 poor folks ..

brianlux

hedonist said:

I'm sure it was cooked safely and with no risk to the current fires.  And agreed, Grohl and his cohorts accomplished a compassionate act that made a difference for those who could partake.

I usually pooh-pooh when "celebrities" speak out about their various causes, and find my mind has changed some on this.  In crisis, if someone can use their spotlight for betterment and encouragement for others to do the same, I say go for it.

(I've been Californicated since birth; all are welcome, in my mind.)

I'm sorry, I did not mean to bad mouth Grohl.  His heart's in the right place and my wife (who used to be married to a fire dude) said, "It's what those guys love.  Well, these day you can't have too much love so there you go 

Also, as I hope I made clear, I have never berated anyone who has moved to California.  I'm only relaying some factual information and the consequences of that information on this state.  Like I said, some of the people closest to me in my life are not native to California.

*********************************************

Yes, the death toll keeps rising and probably will for a while.  And the toll on many of the survivors who lost their homes is huge as well.  I'm encouraged by how generous so many have been in helping with donations, good thoughts, Buddhist blessings, prayers, whatever they have to offer.

We got a sense of how bad the fire is today from the air here in El Dorado County.  We are 3 hours south of Paradise and yet still the air was thick with smoke making breathing outside difficult and burning our eyes. 

Sure could use some rain out here!

PJ_Soul

josevolution said:

Damn death toll keeps climbing up to 59 poor folks ..

It's so horrible. I consider it one of the worst ways to die - it's one of my biggest fears. That video of that woman driving literally through flames in her car and then the car stopped working (who survived and did the interviews) is like a fucking nightmare. And she got out somehow (I didn't even catch how she managed that - too busy thinking about all the others who were in the same jam and were less lucky and got cooked alive inside their cars).

Meltdown99

I thought there is many missing as well.  

PJ_Soul

Meltdown99 said:

I thought there is many missing as well.  

Yeah, like 200 or something like that, last I heard.

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

I thought there is many missing as well.  

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

I thought there is many missing as well.  

Yeah, like 200 or something like that, last I heard.

There will be more deaths discovered, but not all of the couple hundred that are missing.  Some of the house in that area are vacation properties.  In same cases, people where on vacation or away on business.  One woman I talked to today has a sister who was in another state camping in back country and didn't know about the fire until yesterday. 

And now, to make matters worse, the norovirus has broken out in one of the Chico wildfire shelters. 

https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/paradise/camp-fire-outbreak-of-norovirus-discovered-at-chico-wildfire-shelter/103-614726633

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

I thought there is many missing as well.  

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

I thought there is many missing as well.  

Yeah, like 200 or something like that, last I heard.

There will be more deaths discovered, but not all of the couple hundred that are missing.  Some of the house in that area are vacation properties.  In same cases, people where on vacation or away on business.  One woman I talked to today has a sister who was in another state camping in back country and didn't know about the fire until yesterday. 

And now, to make matters worse, the norovirus has broken out in one of the Chico wildfire shelters. 

https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/paradise/camp-fire-outbreak-of-norovirus-discovered-at-chico-wildfire-shelter/103-614726633

Yeah sure, there are always some people who show up later when communication systems break down. But they are also working hard sifting through the ashes looking for human remains. It's horrible for anyone who doesn't know where a loved one is. I don't know if I could take it.

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

I thought there is many missing as well.  

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

I thought there is many missing as well.  

Yeah, like 200 or something like that, last I heard.

There will be more deaths discovered, but not all of the couple hundred that are missing.  Some of the house in that area are vacation properties.  In same cases, people where on vacation or away on business.  One woman I talked to today has a sister who was in another state camping in back country and didn't know about the fire until yesterday. 

And now, to make matters worse, the norovirus has broken out in one of the Chico wildfire shelters. 

https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/paradise/camp-fire-outbreak-of-norovirus-discovered-at-chico-wildfire-shelter/103-614726633

Yeah sure, there are always some people who show up later when communication systems break down. But they are also working hard sifting through the ashes looking for human remains. It's horrible for anyone who doesn't know where a loved one is. I don't know if I could take it.

Yes, it's dreadful.  I don't personally know any of the missing folks from up there, but a few people close to me are going through the anxiety of not knowing where one particular couple are and that worry is causing a lot of stress. A lot of people in the foothill communities are stressed out and even more, of course, going though the worst hell of their lives. 

Despite the bad air and a persistent cough I and others around here have developed, I'm grateful to still have a home.  But we are also very dry here in El Dorado County.  We live in an area with more dead trees and dead shrubbery  than the county and many land/home owners can keep up with as far as removal.  Until we finally get some rain, ever day involves a fair amount of vigilance for fire.  It's nerve wracking.

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

I thought there is many missing as well.  

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

I thought there is many missing as well.  

Yeah, like 200 or something like that, last I heard.

There will be more deaths discovered, but not all of the couple hundred that are missing.  Some of the house in that area are vacation properties.  In same cases, people where on vacation or away on business.  One woman I talked to today has a sister who was in another state camping in back country and didn't know about the fire until yesterday. 

And now, to make matters worse, the norovirus has broken out in one of the Chico wildfire shelters. 

https://www.abc10.com/article/news/local/paradise/camp-fire-outbreak-of-norovirus-discovered-at-chico-wildfire-shelter/103-614726633

Yeah sure, there are always some people who show up later when communication systems break down. But they are also working hard sifting through the ashes looking for human remains. It's horrible for anyone who doesn't know where a loved one is. I don't know if I could take it.

Yes, it's dreadful.  I don't personally know any of the missing folks from up there, but a few people close to me are going through the anxiety of not knowing where one particular couple are and that worry is causing a lot of stress. A lot of people in the foothill communities are stressed out and even more, of course, going though the worst hell of their lives. 

Despite the bad air and a persistent cough I and others around here have developed, I'm grateful to still have a home.  But we are also very dry here in El Dorado County.  We live in an area with more dead trees and dead shrubbery  than the county and many land/home owners can keep up with as far as removal.  Until we finally get some rain, ever day involves a fair amount of vigilance for fire.  It's nerve wracking.

So I'm sorry if this is crass or whatever, but have you considered how long you're willing to put up with these fires around you? What if it just keeps on happening like it has been indefinitely, and you just live consistently with that kind of air? Are you just going to try and suck it up and live with it? Or are you thinking about moving?