Wildfire(s) Out West

tbergs

I can't believe people are still this irresponsible. What a catastrophic decision these teenagers made. If we don't destroy it through pollution, we'll burn it to the ground. 

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2017/09/witness_teens_giggled_as_they.html

Go Beavers

Incredibly beautiful area. It's just straight sadness at this point 

brianlux

The Columbia River Gorge has some of the most beautiful scenery I've ever seen here in the west and the Multnomah Falls area is (was) absolutely breathtaking in beauty. When my wife called me into the room earlier this evening and showed me footage of this fire, we both just kind of stood there dumbfounded.

This stupid act by these kids is particularly disheartening as massive widespread areas over the western US have been blanketed by smoke for several weeks now.  Our area has had weeks of days where we can't open the windows because of the bad air and every day looks like it's foggy out only it's smoky and hot day and night.  I've had an on and off again cough now for about a week. 

Seriously, friends, we have much bigger issues in this world to focus on besides worrying about some fat ass getting his kicks being pissed on.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

We share the earth with o ton of idiots.

BC has been ravaged by fires where no less than 50% of them have been started by man.

The idea of eugenics is looking better all the time.

PJ_Soul

We are once again suffering from a thick layer of smoke sitting over our city. This is the second long stretch of smoke blocking out the sun this summer. The air stinks, the light is eerie and depressing. We had the same for a week 2 years ago. Before that..... it had never happened before in the previous 39 years of my life. This sucks. Obviously, it doesn't suck as much as it does for all the poor people who have lost their homes and/or livelihoods from it. Or for all the people who live under the threat of evacuation for months. I've been saying for a few years now that BC is going just going burn down one of these days. I think that's inevitable, as it gets hotter and drier all the time.

jeffbr

PJ_Soul said:

We are once again suffering from a thick layer of smoke sitting over our city. This is the second long stretch of smoke blocking out the sun this summer. The air stinks, the light is eerie and depressing. We had the same for a week 2 years ago. Before that..... it had never happened before in the previous 39 years of my life. This sucks. Obviously, it doesn't suck as much as it does for all the poor people who have lost their homes and/or livelihoods from it. Or for all the people who live under the threat of evacuation for months. I've been saying for a few years now that BC is going just going burn down one of these days. I think that's inevitable, as it gets hotter and drier all the time.

Yeah, we're feeling the same thing in Seattle as well. Second stretch for us as well. Really hard to breath, stinging eyes, scratchy throat, sun is blocked by the smoke giving an eerie orange glow to everything. It feels like the entire west is burning now. 74 major wildfires burning in 8 western states. Not to mention the massive fires up where you are in BC. Just brutal.

PJ_Soul

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:

We are once again suffering from a thick layer of smoke sitting over our city. This is the second long stretch of smoke blocking out the sun this summer. The air stinks, the light is eerie and depressing. We had the same for a week 2 years ago. Before that..... it had never happened before in the previous 39 years of my life. This sucks. Obviously, it doesn't suck as much as it does for all the poor people who have lost their homes and/or livelihoods from it. Or for all the people who live under the threat of evacuation for months. I've been saying for a few years now that BC is going just going burn down one of these days. I think that's inevitable, as it gets hotter and drier all the time.

Yeah, we're feeling the same thing in Seattle as well. Second stretch for us as well. Really hard to breath, stinging eyes, scratchy throat, sun is blocked by the smoke giving an eerie orange glow to everything. It feels like the entire west is burning now. 74 major wildfires burning in 8 western states. Not to mention the massive fires up where you are in BC. Just brutal.

Yeah, there are 140 fires burning in BC right now. :( We peaked at something like 200. What we've got right now with one is the biggest wildfire that BC has ever had (4 fires all came together to make 1 giant one). Altogether we've lost 1.5 MILLION hectares this summer. It's really depressing and a big blow to the economy. And yeah, the air we breathe is rough. I'm definitely noticing that part. Just when I'm walking around, my lungs feel kind of heavy and like they can't take as deep a breath as usual. I can't imagine what people with lung disease or asthma feel like.

brianlux

Southern California all the way north well up into BC and east to at least Mid Montana.  A rough year and fire season will last at least though mid October.  Good luck to us all out here!

brianlux

I'm not a big cry baby but this article and the photo just simply brought tears to my eyes.  If you've been there, you get it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/fire-devastates-oregons-columbia-gorge---and-nature-lovers/2017/09/06/f347789a-9362-11e7-8482-8dc9a7af29f9_story.html?utm_term=.04a42df8b8ae

tbergs

brianlux said:

I'm not a big cry baby but this article and the photo just simply brought tears to my eyes.  If you've been there, you get it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/fire-devastates-oregons-columbia-gorge---and-nature-lovers/2017/09/06/f347789a-9362-11e7-8482-8dc9a7af29f9_story.html?utm_term=.04a42df8b8ae

Just devastating to see. Especially when most are caused by us. 

mfc2006

Unreal

Thirty Bills Unpaid

We are definitely taking shots right now. 

F**k man. This is brutal.

riley540

Even up here in Bellingham the smoke is super thick 

rgambs

It's a bummer.
Our efforts at preventing forest fires only make them worse and more destructive.
The Ponderosa pine forests of western NA are ecosystems which function properly and best when fires sweep through every 5 to 25 years, preventing a litter build up on the forest floor which prevents fires hot enough to burn through the thick, fire resistant bark.
Add bark beetles and drought and you have a real problem for human inhabitants.

It's getting to the point that soon the interior of the continent will be the only safely habitable region.
I wouldn't move to the coast because of the storms and I wouldn't move out west because there's no water.
Soon the populations that inhabit those regions are going to have to decide to move inland, otherwise they will lose all they have.  Multiple times over in many cases.
It's a bummer.

PJ_Soul

rgambs said:

It's a bummer.
Our efforts at preventing forest fires only make them worse and more destructive.
The Ponderosa pine forests of western NA are ecosystems which function properly and best when fires sweep through every 5 to 25 years, preventing a litter build up on the forest floor which prevents fires hot enough to burn through the thick, fire resistant bark.
Add bark beetles and drought and you have a real problem for human inhabitants.

It's getting to the point that soon the interior of the continent will be the only safely habitable region.
I wouldn't move to the coast because of the storms and I wouldn't move out west because there's no water.
Soon the populations that inhabit those regions are going to have to decide to move inland, otherwise they will lose all they have.  Multiple times over in many cases.
It's a bummer.

There aren't any issues on the west coast re storms. I consider the southwest coast (northwest to you) the most habitable region on the continent, and it will be for the longest time. Plenty of water up there, and if you actually stick to the coast, wildfires aren't generally a problem. Obviously Southern California is fucked, but there is a lot more west coast than that. The interior it going to dry up and likely become desert, so that's no good. If anyone asked where it's best to settle for the long term right now, I would definitely recommend the Pacific northwest, BC coast, or Alaska (except for the fact that I don't want swarms of people migrating here, lol). I'm starting to think my best move when I retire is to move even farther north up the coast, like closer to Alaska. It will still be wet and cool up there for a while yet.

Jason P

Sad.  I hiked a lot of those trials in the gorge.  We should consider bringing these back ...

rgambs

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

It's a bummer.
Our efforts at preventing forest fires only make them worse and more destructive.
The Ponderosa pine forests of western NA are ecosystems which function properly and best when fires sweep through every 5 to 25 years, preventing a litter build up on the forest floor which prevents fires hot enough to burn through the thick, fire resistant bark.
Add bark beetles and drought and you have a real problem for human inhabitants.

It's getting to the point that soon the interior of the continent will be the only safely habitable region.
I wouldn't move to the coast because of the storms and I wouldn't move out west because there's no water.
Soon the populations that inhabit those regions are going to have to decide to move inland, otherwise they will lose all they have.  Multiple times over in many cases.
It's a bummer.

There aren't any issues on the west coast re storms. I consider the southwest coast (northwest to you) the most habitable region on the continent, and it will be for the longest time. Plenty of water up there, and if you actually stick to the coast, wildfires aren't generally a problem. Obviously Southern California is fucked, but there is a lot more west coast than that. The interior it going to dry up and likely become desert, so that's no good. If anyone asked where it's best to settle for the long term right now, I would definitely recommend the Pacific northwest, BC coast, or Alaska (except for the fact that I don't want swarms of people migrating here, lol). I'm starting to think my best move when I retire is to move even farther north up the coast, like closer to Alaska. It will still be wet and cool up there for a while yet.

Yeah I was talking about the East coast.
Like you said the actual coast in the west will be fine, but it's going to be pretty crowded when the interior shifts closer to the ocean.
I live in the Great Lakes region, it's going to be a solid area for humans for at least a few hundred years.

PJ_Soul

A little less than 50% of wildfires are human caused in BC (and that included vehicles backfiring and shit I believe). It's not actually a majority here. I don't say this as an excuse for those who cause them through carelessness of course - I just feel like the number of human-caused wildfires is often exaggerated, and I like to stick to the facts. Pretty sure the number is indeed higher in the USA though. More people in less space = more human caused fires, I'm sure.

tbergs

PJ_Soul said:

The fact is, a little less than 50% of wildfires are human caused (and that included vehicles backfiring and shit I believe). It's not actually a majority. I don't say this as an excuse for those who cause them through carelessness of course - I just feel like the number of human-caused wildfires is often exaggerated, and I like to stick to the facts.

To be hovering around 50% is pretty staggering though. That's quite a bit on an annual basis. It comes down to what RG mentioned a while back. Fires will happen regardless of if humans start them. Every natural environment has it's drawbacks to human inhabitants. Ultimately, we are populating far too many places that are not meant to be populated long term. Couple that with our impact on climate change and we've basically created our own mass extinction scenario.

PJ_Soul

tbergs said:

PJ_Soul said:

The fact is, a little less than 50% of wildfires are human caused (and that included vehicles backfiring and shit I believe). It's not actually a majority. I don't say this as an excuse for those who cause them through carelessness of course - I just feel like the number of human-caused wildfires is often exaggerated, and I like to stick to the facts.

To be hovering around 50% is pretty staggering though. That's quite a bit on an annual basis. It comes down to what RG mentioned a while back. Fires will happen regardless of if humans start them. Every natural environment has it's drawbacks to human inhabitants. Ultimately, we are populating far too many places that are not meant to be populated long term. Couple that with our impact on climate change and we've basically created our own mass extinction scenario.

 Oh, I think 75% of the world's population needs to be wiped out, lol, so yeah, I agree that population is a factor here, as it is with most shitty things. Too bad capitalism relies on constant growth, eh?

PJPOWER

It is sombering to see the red sun all the way down here in TX due to the residual smoke from these fires so far away.  

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

It's a bummer.
Our efforts at preventing forest fires only make them worse and more destructive.
The Ponderosa pine forests of western NA are ecosystems which function properly and best when fires sweep through every 5 to 25 years, preventing a litter build up on the forest floor which prevents fires hot enough to burn through the thick, fire resistant bark.
Add bark beetles and drought and you have a real problem for human inhabitants.

It's getting to the point that soon the interior of the continent will be the only safely habitable region.
I wouldn't move to the coast because of the storms and I wouldn't move out west because there's no water.
Soon the populations that inhabit those regions are going to have to decide to move inland, otherwise they will lose all they have.  Multiple times over in many cases.
It's a bummer.

There aren't any issues on the west coast re storms. I consider the southwest coast (northwest to you) the most habitable region on the continent, and it will be for the longest time. Plenty of water up there, and if you actually stick to the coast, wildfires aren't generally a problem. Obviously Southern California is fucked, but there is a lot more west coast than that. The interior it going to dry up and likely become desert, so that's no good. If anyone asked where it's best to settle for the long term right now, I would definitely recommend the Pacific northwest, BC coast, or Alaska (except for the fact that I don't want swarms of people migrating here, lol). I'm starting to think my best move when I retire is to move even farther north up the coast, like closer to Alaska. It will still be wet and cool up there for a while yet.

Pretty much any place on earth is potentially subject to natural occurrences (I used the term "natural disaster" when talking to a friend many years ago and he argued, convincingly, that there is no such thing as a natural disaster, only natural occurrences that can have disastrous affects on humans. My friend A.B. is partially responsible for me been a skeptic, haha!)  Looked at from a science/nature perspective, they are quite fascinating!

Yes, much of California (more than is already) will become a desert.

The northwest (southwest to you ) is beautiful and I really enjoyed living on the Olympic Peninsula from about '89 to '93 but it does have some serious risk issues, mainly earthquakes and volcanoes and possible radiation from Japan. 

I don't worry much about earthquakes and I've lived in a few places (S.F., other parts of the Bay area, parts of state of Washington) for several years close to some of the biggest earthquake faults around.  They come on quickly and then they're done.  You're either toast or you're not (yes, a bit exaggeratedly understated).  The worst thing about them for me is I get vertigo/dizziness easily and so earthquakes make me want to puke.  But then it's over.  I've also read up on ways to increase your odds of survival-- if under an overpass, crouch down beside your car rather than stay in it, don't stand near tall building with glass, contrary to popular belief, don't stand in a doorway, etc.

The northwest (much of the west coast in fact) is in potential danger of increased radiation from Fukushima's Daiichi and other Japanese nuclear power plants if another large quake hits there. (Some radiation from the 2011 quake has already  been measured.)

Volcanoes on the other hand-- that's a real concern for the greater Seattle area and other places along the Sierra Nevada and Cascade Ranges.  See here:

http://geology.com/usgs/rainier/

PJ_Soul

Hahaha, well, yeah, earthquakes could be an issue... but we've gotta stop being scared at some point, and I figure it ought to be when weather isn't a potential semi-regular threat to self or property (hurricanes, flooding, and drought alike). Horrendous earthquakes and volcanic eruptions (both also threats in the northwest, yes, not to mention the Yellowstone Caldera, which will fuck us all, and which I think is a much more imminent threat than authorities are letting on because they want to prevent panic), and residual radiation from Japan are just too rare to worry about IMO. Once you're paranoid about that, it may be time to crawl into a cave and roll over and die anyhow, so it doesn't matter either way!

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

Hahaha, well, yeah, earthquakes could be an issue... but we've gotta stop being scared at some point, and I figure it ought to be when weather isn't a potential semi-regular threat to self or property (hurricanes, flooding, and drought alike). Horrendous earthquakes and volcanic eruptions (both also threats in the northwest, yes, not to mention the Yellowstone Caldera, which will fuck us all, and which I think is a much more imminent threat than authorities are letting on because they want to prevent panic), and residual radiation from Japan are just too rare to worry about IMO. Once you're paranoid about that, it may be time to crawl into a cave and roll over and die anyhow, so it doesn't matter either way!

Exactly!  Sure, it's normal to be concerned about natural occurrences that could affect our lives, especially with some common-sense basic preparedness, but all the worry in the world will not stop a volcano or an earthquake.  Dig the science, marvel at Mother Nature!

The other things like anthropogenic climate change (which is probably driving these super storms), loss of species habitat due to encroaching development, "cetaceacide" (term recently coined by Paul Watson), human caused massive wildfires, etc, those are things I think are worthy of our attention.

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

Hahaha, well, yeah, earthquakes could be an issue... but we've gotta stop being scared at some point, and I figure it ought to be when weather isn't a potential semi-regular threat to self or property (hurricanes, flooding, and drought alike). Horrendous earthquakes and volcanic eruptions (both also threats in the northwest, yes, not to mention the Yellowstone Caldera, which will fuck us all, and which I think is a much more imminent threat than authorities are letting on because they want to prevent panic), and residual radiation from Japan are just too rare to worry about IMO. Once you're paranoid about that, it may be time to crawl into a cave and roll over and die anyhow, so it doesn't matter either way!

Exactly!  Sure, it's normal to be concerned about natural occurrences that could affect our lives, especially with some common-sense basic preparedness, but all the worry in the world will not stop a volcano or an earthquake.  Dig the science, marvel at Mother Nature!

The other things like anthropogenic climate change (which is probably driving these super storms), loss of species habitat due to encroaching development, "cetaceacide" (term recently coined by Paul Watson), human caused massive wildfires, etc, those are things I think are worthy of our attention.

Agreed!

brianlux

California beautiful wine country is burning.   They're calling this cluster of fires "unprecedented".  I can pretty much vouch for that going back to when my maternal grandparents move to that area in the late 1800's.  It's bad.  A paradise crippled.  It's heartbreaking. 

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/2-big-wildfires-prompt-evacuations-in-Napa-County-12262945.php

"A swarm of fires supercharged by powerful winds ripped through Napa, Sonoma and Mendocino counties Monday, killing at least 10 people, injuring dozens of others, destroying more than 1,500 homes and businesses, and turning prominent wineries to ash.

Starting in the middle of the night, the fires hopscotched across neighborhoods, raced across fields and jumped freeways. Wind gusts up to 70 mph pushed walls of flames nearly 100 feet high, throwing embers ahead like hot fingers into strip malls and subdivisions. Many people who fled the surge had enough time to grab car keys, perhaps a pet, but not much more.

And some didn’t get out. Sonoma County sheriff’s officials said seven people had died in that county. Two people died in a blaze in Napa, state fire officials said. A 10th person was killed in Mendocino County.

Facing one of the most damaging series of blazes in modern California history — fires that left thousands of evacuees in scores of emergency shelters and parts of the wine industry potentially crippled — Gov. Jerry Brown declared a state of emergency for Napa and Sonoma counties as well as fire-struck Yuba County."

tbergs

brianlux said:

California beautiful wine country is burning.   They're calling this cluster of fires "unprecedented".  I can pretty much vouch for that going back to when my maternal grandparents move to that area in the late 1800's.  It's bad.  A paradise crippled.  It's heartbreaking. 

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/2-big-wildfires-prompt-evacuations-in-Napa-County-12262945.php

"A swarm of fires supercharged by powerful winds ripped through Napa, Sonoma and Mendocino counties Monday, killing at least 10 people, injuring dozens of others, destroying more than 1,500 homes and businesses, and turning prominent wineries to ash.

Starting in the middle of the night, the fires hopscotched across neighborhoods, raced across fields and jumped freeways. Wind gusts up to 70 mph pushed walls of flames nearly 100 feet high, throwing embers ahead like hot fingers into strip malls and subdivisions. Many people who fled the surge had enough time to grab car keys, perhaps a pet, but not much more.

And some didn’t get out. Sonoma County sheriff’s officials said seven people had died in that county. Two people died in a blaze in Napa, state fire officials said. A 10th person was killed in Mendocino County.

Facing one of the most damaging series of blazes in modern California history — fires that left thousands of evacuees in scores of emergency shelters and parts of the wine industry potentially crippled — Gov. Jerry Brown declared a state of emergency for Napa and Sonoma counties as well as fire-struck Yuba County."

Wow that is insane! How devastating. It basically sounds like a fire tornado ripped through the area. I can't imagine how chaotic that had to have been with those winds and the fires just steamrolling through.

There's always so much talk about California being swallowed up into the ocean at some point, but it seems more likely that a blazing inferno would leave it in ashes. What a sad situation. Water starved land next to a mass of rising water waiting to quench the fires for good.

curmudgeoness

I think we all knew to expect a tough fire season after all of the rain we had last winter. Still, it's hard to see this happening. It sounds like Stag's Leap and several prominent wineries were hit hard. And so much loss of life already -- terrible.

I still can't believe a teenager started the Eagle Creek fire. I made two trips to that area last year, those trails go through some of the most beautiful land I've ever seen, just unbelievably lush. The idea that someone would be so careless and thoughtless is hard to comprehend.

brianlux

tbergs said:

brianlux said:

California beautiful wine country is burning.   They're calling this cluster of fires "unprecedented".  I can pretty much vouch for that going back to when my maternal grandparents move to that area in the late 1800's.  It's bad.  A paradise crippled.  It's heartbreaking. 

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/2-big-wildfires-prompt-evacuations-in-Napa-County-12262945.php

"A swarm of fires supercharged by powerful winds ripped through Napa, Sonoma and Mendocino counties Monday, killing at least 10 people, injuring dozens of others, destroying more than 1,500 homes and businesses, and turning prominent wineries to ash.

Starting in the middle of the night, the fires hopscotched across neighborhoods, raced across fields and jumped freeways. Wind gusts up to 70 mph pushed walls of flames nearly 100 feet high, throwing embers ahead like hot fingers into strip malls and subdivisions. Many people who fled the surge had enough time to grab car keys, perhaps a pet, but not much more.

And some didn’t get out. Sonoma County sheriff’s officials said seven people had died in that county. Two people died in a blaze in Napa, state fire officials said. A 10th person was killed in Mendocino County.

Facing one of the most damaging series of blazes in modern California history — fires that left thousands of evacuees in scores of emergency shelters and parts of the wine industry potentially crippled — Gov. Jerry Brown declared a state of emergency for Napa and Sonoma counties as well as fire-struck Yuba County."

Wow that is insane! How devastating. It basically sounds like a fire tornado ripped through the area. I can't imagine how chaotic that had to have been with those winds and the fires just steamrolling through.

There's always so much talk about California being swallowed up into the ocean at some point, but it seems more likely that a blazing inferno would leave it in ashes. What a sad situation. Water starved land next to a mass of rising water waiting to quench the fires for good.

Exactly.  I knew something awful was going on this morning before I read the news. The sky to the west was an ominous pall of dense smoke clouds.  The Gates of Hell came to mind.  I saw another new fire billowing in the distance to the north of here in northern El Dorado County/ Southern Nevada county.  The fire seasons grow worse each year.  Planet earth is using Mother Nature to blow us down, shake us up, deluge us in torrents, throw wave upon wave of flames at us. 

Yeah Mama, I hear ya.

brianlux

Despite being classified as a wild-land fire, this one has hit a lot more including many homes, a whole neighborhood, a Hilton Hotel, famous vineyards/wineries, a high school and several businesses.

Before:


After:

Annafalk

This is so horrible. Could there be done more prevention work, I don’t know. Climate changes says to be one of the reasons.