Wildfire(s) Out West

tempo_n_groove

I found this article so apparently they are trying to get a small fleet of planes together...
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article215976680.html

cincybearcat

You know, the way he made the comment was really stupid and lashing out.  However, these fires keep happening, and I think it's a good conversation to have holistically on how to prevent OR where we should not develop.  I see this like talking gun control after a shooting.  It's not "too early", it's when you should be talking about it.

brianlux

tempo_n_groove said:

I know that I had this before and I will say it again.

Why there isn't a small fleet of "super soaker" planes dropping water on the fires is just crazy.

It's been a problem for years.  There should be a dozen of these planes dropping water down simultaneously.

In the midst of a large fire here in CA years ago, I saw a fire chief on the news say that airplanes dropping water on this big fires do very little to slow them down and that they are mainly flown for public PR.  I don't know how true that is but it made me wonder. 

The problem is that these fires usually get this bad due to the combination of western aridity, long stretches of drought that are common in the west and high winds.  Most areas out here have not had rain for well over 200 days.  When all of those factors are combined, the fire spreads rapidly and with shifting winds, erratically.  At one point in the Camp Fire, it was spreading the size of one football field every second.  And these fires are so intense, they form their own weather patterns. 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/09/us/california-wildfires-superlatives-wcx/index.html

There is just no humanly way to stop that kind of force of nature.

brianlux

cincybearcat said:

You know, the way he made the comment was really stupid and lashing out.  However, these fires keep happening, and I think it's a good conversation to have holistically on how to prevent OR where we should not develop.  I see this like talking gun control after a shooting.  It's not "too early", it's when you should be talking about it.

Trump was way out of line saying what he said.  He had his facts all wrong and when tens of thousands of people are without a home or even a home town, you don't do that.  I have heard very conservative fire officials talk about how misguided and ill times his statement was. 

Trump said, “There is no reason for these massive, deadly and costly forest fires in California except that forest management is so poor. Billions of dollars are given each year, with so many lives lost, all because of gross mismanagement of the forests. Remedy now, or no more Fed payments!”

First of all, he is completely wrong about the fires in southern California.  The Pasadena Fire Association tweeted: “Mr. President, with all due respect, you are wrong. The fires in So. Cal are urban interface fires and have NOTHING to do with forest management. Come to SoCal and learn the facts & help the victims.”

Secondly, it is the feds who have diverted money from forest management, not the state of California.

Thirdly, the timing of his statement was just WRONG.

Others have pointed out that withdrawing federal funding  has been likened to defunding the National Hurricane Center until the hurricanes go away.

Here is more on why what Trump said is all wrong:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/11/10/california-fires-firefighter-groups-criticize-donald-trumps-comments/1959469002/

cincybearcat

I never said what he said was right.  In fact I said the opposite.  

But I also see people, like yourself, say "all we should be doing no is helping the people"...seems like the same argument used against talking about gun control after an incident.  There are a multitude of reasons/causes etc.  But I'd also like to know what people are doing to try and avoid this in the future.  What can be done, what do they need, or maybe where should we stop building communities.

brianlux

cincybearcat said:

I never said what he said was right.  In fact I said the opposite.  

But I also see people, like yourself, say "all we should be doing no is helping the people"...seems like the same argument used against talking about gun control after an incident.  There are a multitude of reasons/causes etc.  But I'd also like to know what people are doing to try and avoid this in the future.  What can be done, what do they need, or maybe where should we stop building communities.

Sorry is I misunderstood some of what you said but RIGHT NOW many people are out of a home, have lost everything and have no home to return to.  I know some of these people.  My wife knows people from Paradise who have not been found.  They may be dead.  So yeah, right now what is needed is to help these people.  I will not argue this with you any further at this time.

cincybearcat

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

I never said what he said was right.  In fact I said the opposite.  

But I also see people, like yourself, say "all we should be doing no is helping the people"...seems like the same argument used against talking about gun control after an incident.  There are a multitude of reasons/causes etc.  But I'd also like to know what people are doing to try and avoid this in the future.  What can be done, what do they need, or maybe where should we stop building communities.

Sorry is I misunderstood some of what you said but RIGHT NOW many people are out of a home, have lost everything and have no home to return to.  I know some of these people.  My wife knows people from Paradise who have not been found.  They may be dead.  So yeah, right now what is needed is to help these people.  I will not argue this with you any further at this time.

You seem to be taking this personal.  Not my intent.  I think right now is the time to talk about why this keeps happening and let those with the true understanding of the situation provide leadership in making changes necessary to make this better moving forward. 

dignin

cincybearcat said:

I never said what he said was right.  In fact I said the opposite.  

But I also see people, like yourself, say "all we should be doing no is helping the people"...seems like the same argument used against talking about gun control after an incident.  There are a multitude of reasons/causes etc.  But I'd also like to know what people are doing to try and avoid this in the future.  What can be done, what do they need, or maybe where should we stop building communities.

You ready to have a good conversation about climate change?

brianlux

Trump's blaming forest mismanagement for the fires in the west is misguided, uneducated and overly simplistic.   The main causes of these fires are climate change, humans being irresponsible about fire safety, a century of natural fire suppression and (in the southern part of the state) the Santa Ana winds. 

Trump says, "we need to cut down more trees".  Oh really?  Here is a photo taken from space in a very large area just above Paradise, California:

Every one of those tan areas is a clear cut.  So what should we do, Mr. Trump?  Cut down every goddamn tree in the west?

josevolution

brianlux said:

Trump's blaming forest mismanagement for the fires in the west is misguided, uneducated and overly simplistic.   The main causes of these fires are climate change, humans being irresponsible about fire safety, a century of natural fire suppression and (in the southern part of the state) the Santa Ana winds. 

Trump says, "we need to cut down more trees".  Oh really?  Here is a photo taken from space in a very large area just above Paradise, California:

Every one of those tan areas is a clear cut.  So what should we do, Mr. Trump?  Cut down every goddamn tree in the west?

Yep and build Condos and high rises that's all he cares about concrete and sheat rock panels ...

Thoughts_Arrive

https://www.theindustryobserver.com.au/music-industry-criticise-donald-trump-response-wildfires/

cincybearcat

dignin said:

cincybearcat said:

I never said what he said was right.  In fact I said the opposite.  

But I also see people, like yourself, say "all we should be doing no is helping the people"...seems like the same argument used against talking about gun control after an incident.  There are a multitude of reasons/causes etc.  But I'd also like to know what people are doing to try and avoid this in the future.  What can be done, what do they need, or maybe where should we stop building communities.

You ready to have a good conversation about climate change?

Yup it’s part of the discussion for sure

brianlux

Thoughts_Arrive said:

https://www.theindustryobserver.com.au/music-industry-criticise-donald-trump-response-wildfires/

I'm glad people are speaking out.  Trump's tweet was heartless, ill-timed,  irresponsible and based on ignorance.  Some "leader".

curmudgeoness

Just as a point of reference, where I am right now the humidity is 9% (nine, that's not a typo) and wind is 15mph with stronger gusts; 76 degrees. I feel like a discarded snakeskin left lying in the sun. It is hotter, drier, and windier inland. Last time, it was much warmer here -- the air outdoors felt exactly like it does when I open the oven -- and I was really worried. The concern is that conditions will continue to grow hotter and drier, with less and less precipitation.

Thoughts_Arrive

curmudgeoness said:

Just as a point of reference, where I am right now the humidity is 9% (nine, that's not a typo) and wind is 15mph with stronger gusts; 76 degrees. I feel like a discarded snakeskin left lying in the sun. It is hotter, drier, and windier inland. Last time, it was much warmer here -- the air outdoors felt exactly like it does when I open the oven -- and I was really worried. The concern is that conditions will continue to grow hotter and drier, with less and less precipitation.

That is what an Aussie summer in the south is like, oven heat.

brianlux

curmudgeoness said:

Just as a point of reference, where I am right now the humidity is 9% (nine, that's not a typo) and wind is 15mph with stronger gusts; 76 degrees. I feel like a discarded snakeskin left lying in the sun. It is hotter, drier, and windier inland. Last time, it was much warmer here -- the air outdoors felt exactly like it does when I open the oven -- and I was really worried. The concern is that conditions will continue to grow hotter and drier, with less and less precipitation.

Good thoughts for you curmudgeoness.  Be safe. 

We're in the Sierra Foothills (at about the same elevation as Paradise/Magalia) and, like most areas of the state, have had little to no rain in over 200 days with low humidity- but not as low as 9%.  Seems like most of us here all up and down California are on pins and needles.  I sure hope winter brings some relief.

curmudgeoness

brianlux said:

curmudgeoness said:

Just as a point of reference, where I am right now the humidity is 9% (nine, that's not a typo) and wind is 15mph with stronger gusts; 76 degrees. I feel like a discarded snakeskin left lying in the sun. It is hotter, drier, and windier inland. Last time, it was much warmer here -- the air outdoors felt exactly like it does when I open the oven -- and I was really worried. The concern is that conditions will continue to grow hotter and drier, with less and less precipitation.

Good thoughts for you curmudgeoness.  Be safe. 

We're in the Sierra Foothills (at about the same elevation as Paradise/Magalia) and, like most areas of the state, have had little to no rain in over 200 days with low humidity- but not as low as 9%.  Seems like most of us here all up and down California are on pins and needles.  I sure hope winter brings some relief.

I think we're pretty safe down here; I'm in a coastal area. The smoke is making its way down here, though. At the gym tonight, I could smell smoke, and I'm smelling it now at home, too.

Meltdown99

They claim the smoke is making its way to Detroit, I'm 30 minutes from Detroit.  Doubt it would be very thick smoke?

tbergs

cincybearcat said:

I never said what he said was right.  In fact I said the opposite.  

But I also see people, like yourself, say "all we should be doing no is helping the people"...seems like the same argument used against talking about gun control after an incident.  There are a multitude of reasons/causes etc.  But I'd also like to know what people are doing to try and avoid this in the future.  What can be done, what do they need, or maybe where should we stop building communities.

You make a good point, but as a counter argument, no one can actively have a conversation about how to prevent said emergency from occurring again when it is still actively happening. It would be akin to having a gun control conversation while the active shooter was still active. Let's get people to safety and reign in the devastation before deciding where we should and shouldn't build new homes.

Jason P

I

they said smoke hit the gulf steam and could technically be in the Midwest/ Detroit... but it’s still up in the Gulf Stream.  Lots of people think they can smell it, but meteorologists say it’s in their minds.