The Concept of God

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and there you have it. 

And there you have what? Seriously, what in the fuck am I allowed to say so that you and Foxy don't chastise me for MY beliefs?? You defend those with religious beliefs, but then I express my own you are all snide about it. It's bullshit, and completely biased and hypocritical. I can't even believe I am now actually having to defend myself for being against CREATIONISTS of all things. Gimme a break. I'm not going to feel guilty about not humouring religious fanatics.

because anyone who holds a different opinion than yours is "absurd" and "illogical". I have no issue with disagreement. I sometimes have issue with how it's presented.  

the debate has nothing to do with the creationist agenda. you brought that in, no one else. I never even mentioned creationists. someone else did. all we were talking about was different people's ability to appreciate the physical world. 

I think people of all beliefs have the same ability to appreciate their world.

you (and some others) don't.

end of story. 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and there you have it. 

And there you have what? Seriously, what in the fuck am I allowed to say so that you and Foxy don't chastise me for MY beliefs?? You defend those with religious beliefs, but then I express my own you are all snide about it. It's bullshit, and completely biased and hypocritical. I can't even believe I am now actually having to defend myself for being against CREATIONISTS of all things. Gimme a break. I'm not going to feel guilty about not humouring religious fanatics.

because anyone who holds a different opinion than yours is "absurd" and "illogical". I have no issue with disagreement. I sometimes have issue with how it's presented.  

the debate has nothing to do with the creationist agenda. you brought that in, no one else. I never even mentioned creationists. someone else did. all we were talking about was different people's ability to appreciate the physical world. 

I think people of all beliefs have the same ability to appreciate their world.

you (and some others) don't.

end of story. 

I actually did NOT bring up the creationist conversation. Someone else did, as you said. Yes, I think your opinion is illogical because it just isn't possible. So what??? A LOT of things said on these boards are believed to be illogical by others, including yourself, and in many cases it's just plain true - so what?? I'm not allowed to point it out anymore? You're just being a hypocrite man.

Annafalk

rgambs said:

Annafalk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I disagree. I think one can have a different belief on how something works yet still have an equal appreciation for it. 

I don't understand how one can figure that a person who literally refuses to accept the essence, nature, complexity, reality and truth of something can possibly be said to have an equal appreciation of it compared to someone who does accept those things. That seems like an illogical statement to me.

who is refusing the essence, nature and complexity of something?

we don't know who/what created everything. we just try to explain how it works. how is it that someone who thinks they CAN explain who/what created everything must have a lesser appreciation of it?

Yeah, I don't understand either. It's like a really good dessert or beer can't be fully appreciated if one doesn't know how they are made??

I think that's obvious and people just don't want to accept their ignorance with humility.
If you tell me you replaced the tie rod on your truck I can't appreciate your mechanical skills because I don't know shit about mechanics.  I don't know if you rebuilt the whole car or just snapped a piece into place.
If I've never swung a golf club, can I truly appreciate a 300 yard hole in one?

Anyway we "humans" didn't build the world.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and there you have it. 

And there you have what? Seriously, what in the fuck am I allowed to say so that you and Foxy don't chastise me for MY beliefs?? You defend those with religious beliefs, but then I express my own you are all snide about it. It's bullshit, and completely biased and hypocritical. I can't even believe I am now actually having to defend myself for being against CREATIONISTS of all things. Gimme a break. I'm not going to feel guilty about not humouring religious fanatics.

because anyone who holds a different opinion than yours is "absurd" and "illogical". I have no issue with disagreement. I sometimes have issue with how it's presented.  

the debate has nothing to do with the creationist agenda. you brought that in, no one else. I never even mentioned creationists. someone else did. all we were talking about was different people's ability to appreciate the physical world. 

I think people of all beliefs have the same ability to appreciate their world.

you (and some others) don't.

end of story. 

I actually did NOT bring up the creationist conversation. Someone else did, as you said. Yes, I think your opinion is illogical. So what??? A LOT of things said on these boards are believe to be illogical by others, including yourself - so what? We're not allowed to point it out anymore? You're just being a hypocrite man.

I didn't say you brought in the creationist conversation. but you did start with the ramblings of the evils of creationism, which had nothing to do with the topic. IN MY OPINION. 

not sure how this makes me a hypocrite.

have a lovely day. 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and there you have it. 

And there you have what? Seriously, what in the fuck am I allowed to say so that you and Foxy don't chastise me for MY beliefs?? You defend those with religious beliefs, but then I express my own you are all snide about it. It's bullshit, and completely biased and hypocritical. I can't even believe I am now actually having to defend myself for being against CREATIONISTS of all things. Gimme a break. I'm not going to feel guilty about not humouring religious fanatics.

because anyone who holds a different opinion than yours is "absurd" and "illogical". I have no issue with disagreement. I sometimes have issue with how it's presented.  

the debate has nothing to do with the creationist agenda. you brought that in, no one else. I never even mentioned creationists. someone else did. all we were talking about was different people's ability to appreciate the physical world. 

I think people of all beliefs have the same ability to appreciate their world.

you (and some others) don't.

end of story. 

I actually did NOT bring up the creationist conversation. Someone else did, as you said. Yes, I think your opinion is illogical. So what??? A LOT of things said on these boards are believe to be illogical by others, including yourself - so what? We're not allowed to point it out anymore? You're just being a hypocrite man.

read. I didn't say you brought in the creationist comment. but you did start with the ramblings of the evils of creationism, which had nothing to do with the topic. IN MY OPINION. 

not sure how this makes me a hypocrite.

have a lovely day. 

Uh huh. So now one or two sentences that I mentioned because it was in context is "ramblings". Right. Get a grip dude.

HughFreakingDillon

I'm well gripped. but thanks. 

oftenreading

HughFreakingDillon said:

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I disagree. I think one can have a different belief on how something works yet still have an equal appreciation for it. 

I disagree.
Are you telling me that any old Joe can have an equal appreciation for a masterpiece symphony to a composer or performer?
Can someone who doesn't know how to make Kraft Mac and cheese have an equal appreciation for the finest gourmet meal?
You have to truly know something to truly appreciate it.

so because I'm a musician means I'm a bigger fan of Pearl Jam than a non-musician? I don't agree with that at all. 

Being a "fan" is not the same thing as having a deep appreciation for something. 

Part of the definition of "appreciate" deals with having an understanding. 

I knew semantics were going to come into play here. let me rephrase:

so because I'm a musician means I have a deeper appreciation of Pearl Jam than a non-musician?

In what world is "semantics" a bad thing? 

https://www.google.ca/search?client=safari&channel=iphone_bm&site=&source=hp&ei=16CMWZXeLMiH0wLFkLXIBA&q=semantics&oq=aemantics&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.0.0i10i70k1j0i10k1l4.1722.7506.0.8849.26.18.6.4.4.0.242.2300.4j13j1.18.0....0...1.1.64.mobile-gws-hp..0.26.2293.3..0j5j41j0i131k1j0i13k1.Zr8RZgLxImo

If I choose a particular word it's often because it has a particular meaning that conveys what I want to say. 
 

HughFreakingDillon

I mean I knew someone would nitpick the word "fan" and I should have said "appreciation" instead for consistency. 

edit: and semantics can be a bad thing because it causes someone to focus on literal meanings instead of the intent of the content. 

oftenreading

HughFreakingDillon said:

I mean I knew someone would nitpick the word "fan" and I should have said "appreciation" instead for consistency. 

edit: and semantics can be a bad thing because it causes someone to focus on literal meanings instead of the intent of the content. 

No. Now you're shifting goal posts. This whole discussion started with a point specifically pertaining to how one "appreciates " things and what that really means, as opposed to just enjoying them. It's not beside the point, it is the point. 

HughFreakingDillon

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I mean I knew someone would nitpick the word "fan" and I should have said "appreciation" instead for consistency. 

edit: and semantics can be a bad thing because it causes someone to focus on literal meanings instead of the intent of the content. 

No. Now you're shifting goal posts. This whole discussion started with a point specifically pertaining to how one "appreciates " things and what that really means, as opposed to just enjoying them. It's not beside the point, it is the point. 

did you or did you not know what I meant?

THAT is the point. 

oftenreading

HughFreakingDillon said:

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I mean I knew someone would nitpick the word "fan" and I should have said "appreciation" instead for consistency. 

edit: and semantics can be a bad thing because it causes someone to focus on literal meanings instead of the intent of the content. 

No. Now you're shifting goal posts. This whole discussion started with a point specifically pertaining to how one "appreciates " things and what that really means, as opposed to just enjoying them. It's not beside the point, it is the point. 

did you or did you not know what I meant?

THAT is the point. 

My point is that we seem to be talking about two different things. I'm trying to be precise in how I'm expressing my opinion. 

And to answer your earlier question, you probably do appreciate Pearl Jam's music more than a non-musician. 
 

HughFreakingDillon

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I mean I knew someone would nitpick the word "fan" and I should have said "appreciation" instead for consistency. 

edit: and semantics can be a bad thing because it causes someone to focus on literal meanings instead of the intent of the content. 

No. Now you're shifting goal posts. This whole discussion started with a point specifically pertaining to how one "appreciates " things and what that really means, as opposed to just enjoying them. It's not beside the point, it is the point. 

did you or did you not know what I meant?

THAT is the point. 

My point is that we seem to be talking about two different things. I'm trying to be precise in how I'm expressing my opinion. 

And to answer your earlier question, you probably do appreciate Pearl Jam's music more than a non-musician. 
 

so am I, but sometimes I fuck up. 

rgambs

I watched a documentary once about ham and terrorism and the comedy of war.
In it, John Candy led me to believe that Canadians don't argue like this.

Honor John Candy's memory and Rhea Pearlman's continued greatness.
Please.
I beg of you.

PJ_Soul

FWIW, I do think that a musician is likely to have a deeper appreciation for a band's music than a non-musician. Musicians would necessarily have a deeper, wider understanding of what is going into making that music what it is. There is, however, a difference between appreciation in this context, and loving something. A musician probably can have a deeper appreciation for the music but not love or enjoy the music as much at the same time.

PJfanwillneverleave1

I agree that people w/ different beliefs have the same ability to appreciate their world.  As for the musician context I played a recorder once in grade school and still to this day can't appreciate it's music.  I certainly can't stand country music either no matter how well the guy plays the geetar.

HughFreakingDillon

now I'm second guessing my position. 

HesCalledDyer

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

I agree that people w/ different beliefs have the same ability to appreciate their world.  As for the musician context I played a recorder once in grade school and still to this day can't appreciate it's music.  I certainly can't stand country music either no matter how well the guy plays the geetar.

:rofl: @ "geetar!" 

Annafalk

HesCalledDyer said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

I agree that people w/ different beliefs have the same ability to appreciate their world.  As for the musician context I played a recorder once in grade school and still to this day can't appreciate it's music.  I certainly can't stand country music either no matter how well the guy plays the geetar.

:rofl: @ "geetar!" 

Haven't you heard of a geetar?
https://www.google.se/imgres?imgurl=https://image.redbull.com/rbcom/010/2017-03-02/1331847493656_2/0012/0/0/345/2282/3770/1600/1/a-pikasso-guitar.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.redbull.com/se-en/the-strangest-instruments-made-by-musicians&docid=mcUovBfgBNmjQM&tbnid=HvUFiZIDu5oz5M:&vet=10ahUKEwj5sZCetM3VAhUPPFAKHfaJDBoQMwg6KAcwBw..i&w=1600&h=1066&bih=460&biw=320&q=instruments&ved=0ahUKEwj5sZCetM3VAhUPPFAKHfaJDBoQMwg6KAcwBw&iact=mrc&uact=8

HesCalledDyer

Annafalk said:

HesCalledDyer said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

I agree that people w/ different beliefs have the same ability to appreciate their world.  As for the musician context I played a recorder once in grade school and still to this day can't appreciate it's music.  I certainly can't stand country music either no matter how well the guy plays the geetar.

:rofl: @ "geetar!" 

Haven't you heard of a geetar?
https://www.google.se/imgres?imgurl=https://image.redbull.com/rbcom/010/2017-03-02/1331847493656_2/0012/0/0/345/2282/3770/1600/1/a-pikasso-guitar.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.redbull.com/se-en/the-strangest-instruments-made-by-musicians&docid=mcUovBfgBNmjQM&tbnid=HvUFiZIDu5oz5M:&vet=10ahUKEwj5sZCetM3VAhUPPFAKHfaJDBoQMwg6KAcwBw..i&w=1600&h=1066&bih=460&biw=320&q=instruments&ved=0ahUKEwj5sZCetM3VAhUPPFAKHfaJDBoQMwg6KAcwBw&iact=mrc&uact=8

Oh I got the joke.  That's why I :rofl:'d

oftenreading

No one appreciates the recorder.