The Concept of God

oftenreading

HughFreakingDillon said:

I disagree. I think one can have a different belief on how something works yet still have an equal appreciation for it. 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this, then. Where evolution is indisputable, a "different belief" is an incorrect belief. 

HughFreakingDillon

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I disagree. I think one can have a different belief on how something works yet still have an equal appreciation for it. 

I disagree.
Are you telling me that any old Joe can have an equal appreciation for a masterpiece symphony to a composer or performer?
Can someone who doesn't know how to make Kraft Mac and cheese have an equal appreciation for the finest gourmet meal?
You have to truly know something to truly appreciate it.

so because I'm a musician means I'm a bigger fan of Pearl Jam than a non-musician? I don't agree with that at all. 

HughFreakingDillon

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I disagree. I think one can have a different belief on how something works yet still have an equal appreciation for it. 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this, then. Where evolution is indisputable, a "different belief" is an incorrect belief. 

I'm not disputing that. But to me that has nothing to do with someone's appreciation for their surroundings. 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

I disagree. I think one can have a different belief on how something works yet still have an equal appreciation for it. 

I don't understand how one can figure that a person who literally refuses to accept the essence, nature, complexity, reality and truth of something can possibly be said to have an equal appreciation of it compared to someone who does accept those things. That seems like an illogical statement to me.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I disagree. I think one can have a different belief on how something works yet still have an equal appreciation for it. 

I don't understand how one can figure that a person who literally refuses to accept the essence, nature, complexity, reality and truth of something can possibly be said to have an equal appreciation of it compared to someone who does accept those things. That seems like an illogical statement to me.

who is refusing the essence, nature and complexity of something?

we don't know who/what created everything. we just try to explain how it works. how is it that someone who thinks they CAN explain who/what created everything must have a lesser appreciation of it?

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I disagree. I think one can have a different belief on how something works yet still have an equal appreciation for it. 

I don't understand how one can figure that a person who literally refuses to accept the essence, nature, complexity, reality and truth of something can possibly be said to have an equal appreciation of it compared to someone who does accept those things. That seems like an illogical statement to me.

who is refusing the essence, nature and complexity of something?

we don't know who/what created everything. we just try to explain how it works. how is it that someone who thinks they CAN explain who/what created everything must have a lesser appreciation of it?

Creationists are refusing to accept the essence, nature and complexity of evolution/the existence of life on Earth.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I disagree. I think one can have a different belief on how something works yet still have an equal appreciation for it. 

I don't understand how one can figure that a person who literally refuses to accept the essence, nature, complexity, reality and truth of something can possibly be said to have an equal appreciation of it compared to someone who does accept those things. That seems like an illogical statement to me.

who is refusing the essence, nature and complexity of something?

we don't know who/what created everything. we just try to explain how it works. how is it that someone who thinks they CAN explain who/what created everything must have a lesser appreciation of it?

Creationists are refusing to accept the essence, nature and complexity of evolution/the existence of life on Earth.

how are they refusing the existence of life on earth? I'm not sure I understand that statement. 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I disagree. I think one can have a different belief on how something works yet still have an equal appreciation for it. 

I don't understand how one can figure that a person who literally refuses to accept the essence, nature, complexity, reality and truth of something can possibly be said to have an equal appreciation of it compared to someone who does accept those things. That seems like an illogical statement to me.

who is refusing the essence, nature and complexity of something?

we don't know who/what created everything. we just try to explain how it works. how is it that someone who thinks they CAN explain who/what created everything must have a lesser appreciation of it?

Creationists are refusing to accept the essence, nature and complexity of evolution/the existence of life on Earth.

how are they refusing the existence of life on earth? I'm not sure I understand that statement. 

They are refusing to accept the essence, nature and complexity of the existence of life on Earth.

Annafalk

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I disagree. I think one can have a different belief on how something works yet still have an equal appreciation for it. 

I don't understand how one can figure that a person who literally refuses to accept the essence, nature, complexity, reality and truth of something can possibly be said to have an equal appreciation of it compared to someone who does accept those things. That seems like an illogical statement to me.

who is refusing the essence, nature and complexity of something?

we don't know who/what created everything. we just try to explain how it works. how is it that someone who thinks they CAN explain who/what created everything must have a lesser appreciation of it?

Yeah, I don't understand either. It's like a really good dessert or beer can't be fully appreciated if one doesn't know how they are made??

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I disagree. I think one can have a different belief on how something works yet still have an equal appreciation for it. 

I don't understand how one can figure that a person who literally refuses to accept the essence, nature, complexity, reality and truth of something can possibly be said to have an equal appreciation of it compared to someone who does accept those things. That seems like an illogical statement to me.

who is refusing the essence, nature and complexity of something?

we don't know who/what created everything. we just try to explain how it works. how is it that someone who thinks they CAN explain who/what created everything must have a lesser appreciation of it?

Creationists are refusing to accept the essence, nature and complexity of evolution/the existence of life on Earth.

how are they refusing the existence of life on earth? I'm not sure I understand that statement. 

They are refusing to accept the essence, nature and complexity of the existence of life on Earth.

well obviously they don't believe in darwin's theory. but you don't think that they believe that their god's creations are infinitely complex?

FoxyRedLa

Are we stating facts or opinions now??

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I disagree. I think one can have a different belief on how something works yet still have an equal appreciation for it. 

I don't understand how one can figure that a person who literally refuses to accept the essence, nature, complexity, reality and truth of something can possibly be said to have an equal appreciation of it compared to someone who does accept those things. That seems like an illogical statement to me.

who is refusing the essence, nature and complexity of something?

we don't know who/what created everything. we just try to explain how it works. how is it that someone who thinks they CAN explain who/what created everything must have a lesser appreciation of it?

Creationists are refusing to accept the essence, nature and complexity of evolution/the existence of life on Earth.

how are they refusing the existence of life on earth? I'm not sure I understand that statement. 

They are refusing to accept the essence, nature and complexity of the existence of life on Earth.

well obviously they don't believe in darwin's theory. but you don't think that they believe that their god's creations are infinitely complex?

I see an actual difference between fact and fiction. If that distinction means nothing to you, then what you're saying makes sense.

PJ_Soul

FoxyRedLa said:

Are we stating facts or opinions now??

What are you looking for with this question? Am I supposed to say that creationism is a valid belief system now or what?

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I disagree. I think one can have a different belief on how something works yet still have an equal appreciation for it. 

I don't understand how one can figure that a person who literally refuses to accept the essence, nature, complexity, reality and truth of something can possibly be said to have an equal appreciation of it compared to someone who does accept those things. That seems like an illogical statement to me.

who is refusing the essence, nature and complexity of something?

we don't know who/what created everything. we just try to explain how it works. how is it that someone who thinks they CAN explain who/what created everything must have a lesser appreciation of it?

Creationists are refusing to accept the essence, nature and complexity of evolution/the existence of life on Earth.

how are they refusing the existence of life on earth? I'm not sure I understand that statement. 

They are refusing to accept the essence, nature and complexity of the existence of life on Earth.

well obviously they don't believe in darwin's theory. but you don't think that they believe that their god's creations are infinitely complex?

I see an actual difference between fact and fiction. If that distinction means nothing to you, then what you're saying makes sense.

just not in this context. 

oftenreading

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I disagree. I think one can have a different belief on how something works yet still have an equal appreciation for it. 

I disagree.
Are you telling me that any old Joe can have an equal appreciation for a masterpiece symphony to a composer or performer?
Can someone who doesn't know how to make Kraft Mac and cheese have an equal appreciation for the finest gourmet meal?
You have to truly know something to truly appreciate it.

so because I'm a musician means I'm a bigger fan of Pearl Jam than a non-musician? I don't agree with that at all. 

Being a "fan" is not the same thing as having a deep appreciation for something. 

Part of the definition of "appreciate" deals with having an understanding. 

HughFreakingDillon

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I disagree. I think one can have a different belief on how something works yet still have an equal appreciation for it. 

I disagree.
Are you telling me that any old Joe can have an equal appreciation for a masterpiece symphony to a composer or performer?
Can someone who doesn't know how to make Kraft Mac and cheese have an equal appreciation for the finest gourmet meal?
You have to truly know something to truly appreciate it.

so because I'm a musician means I'm a bigger fan of Pearl Jam than a non-musician? I don't agree with that at all. 

Being a "fan" is not the same thing as having a deep appreciation for something. 

Part of the definition of "appreciate" deals with having an understanding. 

I knew semantics were going to come into play here. let me rephrase:

so because I'm a musician means I have a deeper appreciation of Pearl Jam than a non-musician?

rgambs

Annafalk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I disagree. I think one can have a different belief on how something works yet still have an equal appreciation for it. 

I don't understand how one can figure that a person who literally refuses to accept the essence, nature, complexity, reality and truth of something can possibly be said to have an equal appreciation of it compared to someone who does accept those things. That seems like an illogical statement to me.

who is refusing the essence, nature and complexity of something?

we don't know who/what created everything. we just try to explain how it works. how is it that someone who thinks they CAN explain who/what created everything must have a lesser appreciation of it?

Yeah, I don't understand either. It's like a really good dessert or beer can't be fully appreciated if one doesn't know how they are made??

I think that's obvious and people just don't want to accept their ignorance with humility.
If you tell me you replaced the tie rod on your truck I can't appreciate your mechanical skills because I don't know shit about mechanics.  I don't know if you rebuilt the whole car or just snapped a piece into place.
If I've never swung a golf club, can I truly appreciate a 300 yard hole in one?

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I disagree. I think one can have a different belief on how something works yet still have an equal appreciation for it. 

I don't understand how one can figure that a person who literally refuses to accept the essence, nature, complexity, reality and truth of something can possibly be said to have an equal appreciation of it compared to someone who does accept those things. That seems like an illogical statement to me.

who is refusing the essence, nature and complexity of something?

we don't know who/what created everything. we just try to explain how it works. how is it that someone who thinks they CAN explain who/what created everything must have a lesser appreciation of it?

Creationists are refusing to accept the essence, nature and complexity of evolution/the existence of life on Earth.

how are they refusing the existence of life on earth? I'm not sure I understand that statement. 

They are refusing to accept the essence, nature and complexity of the existence of life on Earth.

well obviously they don't believe in darwin's theory. but you don't think that they believe that their god's creations are infinitely complex?

I see an actual difference between fact and fiction. If that distinction means nothing to you, then what you're saying makes sense.

just not in this context. 

But in this context, they deny fact in favour of a fanatical religious belief that they try to present as fact. And they don't just "harmlessly" present it as fact. They actually try to get it taught in schools as though it's a valid scientific theory. This is extremely dangerous, as well as simplistic. I totally reject the idea that creationism allows people to equally conceive the complexities of the natural world, the formation and continuance of life on Earth. I think such a statement is a literal absurdity.

HughFreakingDillon

and there you have it. 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

and there you have it. 

And there you have what? Seriously, what in the fuck am I allowed to say so that you and Foxy don't chastise me for MY beliefs?? You defend those with religious beliefs, but then I express my own you are all snide about it. It's bullshit, and completely biased and hypocritical. I can't even believe I am now actually having to defend myself for being against CREATIONISTS of all things. Gimme a break. I'm not going to feel guilty about not humouring religious fanatics.