Is America the greatest country in the world?

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  • Please people. The world over knows USA health care is shit.  Let's not paint it any other way..i hope s-c heals well
     I hope mc gruff can see the comparison  was with going back to work and not giving birth.
    I hope we can be kind . 
    brixton 93
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    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,388
    Time for a new titles for this thread?: 

    Make Appendectomies Great Again.

    Obsessions.

    Is Sweden the Greatest Country in the World?



    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • Sweden is pretty good.. but fuckin expensive  to even buy a sandwich. Unreal
    brixton 93
    astoria 06
    albany 06
    hartford 06
    reading 06
    barcelona 06
    paris 06
    wembley 07
    dusseldorf 07
    nijmegen 07

    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,618
    edited November 2018
    Sweden is pretty good.. but fuckin expensive  to even buy a sandwich. Unreal
    Not that cheap in London either for god sakes. I ate your trangleshaped sandwiches this summer! Everything felt priced the same pretty much (?)

    People here seem to survive, and get paternal leave paid and give kids school lunches, and get a decent pension, and decent healthcare, and



    decent

    life

    How much is a sandwich in e.g. Slough?
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,640
    Please people. The world over knows USA health care is shit.  Let's not paint it any other way..i hope s-c heals well
     I hope mc gruff can see the comparison  was with going back to work and not giving birth.
    I hope we can be kind . 
    Maybe it is because of my proximity to philly and nyc because I have zero problems with our health care system. The doctors and hospitals around here are top notch. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,010
    mcgruff10 said:
    Maybe it is because of my proximity to philly and nyc because I have zero problems with our health care system. The doctors and hospitals around here are top notch. 
    The trick to seeing the big picture it to think about how it works for everyone, not just yourself.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 37,447
    mcgruff10 said:
    Maybe it is because of my proximity to philly and nyc because I have zero problems with our health care system. The doctors and hospitals around here are top notch. 
    no one is arguing your CARE is top notch (it was/is a pretty widespread problem in Canada that doctors here were leaving to get jobs in the US as the money was too stupid to pass up). it's the access to it that is the problem. 
    "Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk"
    -EV  8/14/93




  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,010
    edited November 2018
    Well right. I mean, in this thread I think rgambs said he would have to spend $6000 for an appendectomy, out of pocket, on top of his $700/MONTH insurance bill. Which is just fucking SHOCKING. And then someone - McGruff? - comes back with, "I would only pay $20 out of pocket for the same surgery" (no mention of the monthly payments though). Um, yeah, something is SERIOUSLY wrong with a system that spawns that little conversation, and I can't believe that any American is okay with that kind of scenario.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,640
    no one is arguing your CARE is top notch (it was/is a pretty widespread problem in Canada that doctors here were leaving to get jobs in the US as the money was too stupid to pass up). it's the access to it that is the problem. 
    Access in what way?  Are we talking rural? Wait time?

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,640
    PJ_Soul said:
    Well right. I mean, in this thread I think rgambs said he would have to spend $6000 for an appendectomy, out of pocket, on top of his $700/MONTH insurance bill. Which is just fucking SHOCKING. And then someone - McGruff? - comes back with, "I would only pay $20 out of pocket for the same surgery" (no mention of the monthly payments though). Um, yeah, something is SERIOUSLY wrong with a system that spawns that little conversation, and I can't believe that any American is okay with that kind of scenario.
    I think that comes down to your job. I don’t get paid a lot as a teacher but my copays ($10 dr/$20 ER visit) and prescription prices ($3 generic $20 brand) are low. I pay right around $7000 out of pocket for medical insurance. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 37,447
    mcgruff10 said:
    Access in what way?  Are we talking rural? Wait time?

    as in financial. wait times in america are light years better than in canada for non-emergency procedures. 
    "Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk"
    -EV  8/14/93




  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,640
    as in financial. wait times in america are light years better than in canada for non-emergency procedures. 
    I understand what you are saying. Got ya
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,010
    edited November 2018
    mcgruff10 said:
    I think that comes down to your job. I don’t get paid a lot as a teacher but my copays ($10 dr/$20 ER visit) and prescription prices ($3 generic $20 brand) are low. I pay right around $7000 out of pocket for medical insurance. 
    That's exactly my point. A fucking lifesaving surgery comes down to someone's job. That is DISGUSTING. So is having to pay $7000 a year for health insurance, and that's when you have a public sector job too! Jesus Christ. Outrageous. And just think of those who don't have thousands to spare for insurance like that. This is why it's a human rights crisis. I just don't understand how anyone in America stands for that bullshit.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,845
    as in financial. wait times in america are light years better than in canada for non-emergency procedures. 
    Wait times are better if you have the insurance for it. 
     
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,640
    What do my friends north of the border pay for healgh care a year?  Is it an itemized deduction on your pay Chevk?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    PJ_Soul said:
    That's exactly my point. A fucking lifesaving surgery comes down to someone's job. That is DISGUSTING. So is having to pay $7000 a year for health insurance, and that's when you have a public sector job too! Jesus Christ. Outrageous. And just think of those who don't have thousands to spare for insurance like that. This is why it's a human rights crisis. I just don't understand how anyone in America stands for that bullshit.
    What would you do about it? 
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,010
    edited November 2018
    mcgruff10 said:
    What do my friends north of the border pay for healgh care a year?  Is it an itemized deduction on your pay Chevk?
    For basic healthcare, which includes ALL necessary care and procedures, including with specialists and ER visits, etc, we generally pay nothing. No, there is no itemization, and those handling our pay cheques have zero access to healthcare records. We don't ever see anything that lists how much it would have cost or anything. We just go in and get treated or evaluated or whatever, and then we walk out. That's it. And that does include child birth.
    Some provinces do have a monthly fee for this, but it's not really relevant because it's so small and most adults have employers who pay it anyhow. It depends on your income. In BC it starts at $0 and maxes out at maybe $70?? I know if you earn less than $26K/year you don't pay anything. And if you do get charged this fee and don't pay it, nothing really happens anyway. It's not like if you never pay it you won't get the care. You'll still be covered. You simply owe them some money. They might add it to your income taxes owing actually, but not positive. All people have a right to medical care whether they pay or not.

    Now there is extended healthcare insurance, which is usually 100% covered by employers, but some buy it, and that takes care of the stuff not covered by basic healthcare (mine covers 80% of most things, or up to a max, like I get $400 for eyeglasses every two years, etc etc). Extended healthcare covers things like massages and physio appointments, prescriptions, medical supplies, dental, non-necessary eye care (i.e. pay $80 for your annual standard eye exam (unless you're a child or over 65, when it's free), but anything for eye injuries or disease is covered under basic care). And then there is Pharmacare, which helps with prescriptions and medical supplies for those without extended care, and that is income-based.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 37,447
    mcgruff10 said:
    What do my friends north of the border pay for healgh care a year?  Is it an itemized deduction on your pay Chevk?
    that's really hard to say.

    no, it is not, unless you are talking about private insurance coverage you get from your employer. 
    "Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk"
    -EV  8/14/93




  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,640
    that's really hard to say.

    no, it is not, unless you are talking about private insurance coverage you get from your employer. 
    Wait, so there is private insurance coverage like we have here and a federal system? Can you have both?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,640
    PJ_Soul said:
    For basic healthcare, which includes ALL necessary care and procedures, including with specialists and ER visits, etc, we generally pay nothing. No, there is no itemization, and those handling our pay cheques have zero access to healthcare records. We don't ever see anything that lists how much it would have cost or anything. We just go in and get treated or evaluated or whatever, and then we walk out. That's it. And that does include child birth.
    Some provinces do have a monthly fee for this, but it's not really relevant because it's so small and most adults have employers who pay it anyhow. It depends on your income. In BC it starts at $0 and maxes out at maybe $70?? I know if you earn less than $26K/year you don't pay anything. And if you do get charged this fee and don't pay it, nothing really happens anyway. It's not like if you never pay it you won't get the care. You'll still be covered. You simply owe them some money. They might add it to your income taxes owing actually, but not positive. All people have a right to medical care whether they pay or not.

    Now there is extended healthcare insurance, which is usually 100% covered by employers, but some buy it, and that takes care of the stuff not covered by basic healthcare (mine covers 80% of most things, or up to a max, like I get $400 for eyeglasses every two years, etc etc). Extended healthcare covers things like massages and physio appointments, prescriptions, medical supplies, dental, non-necessary eye care (i.e. pay $80 for your annual standard eye exam (unless you're a child or over 65, when it's free), but anything for eye injuries or disease is covered under basic care). And then there is Pharmacare, which helps with prescriptions and medical supplies for those without extended care, and that is income-based.
    But even though you walk in and it is free the money somehow comes from your income.  You don’t know the percentage?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,010
    that's really hard to say.

    no, it is not, unless you are talking about private insurance coverage you get from your employer. 
    I've never heard of such specifics filtering through an employer like that at all. I'm pretty sure even with extended healthcare plans, that kind of thing is kept confidential. I.e. the employer provides the insurance plan, but you still go through the insurance broker as an individual. I.e. I send my prescription receipts directly to Blue Cross for reimbursement. It's none of my employer's business which prescriptions I got. Same for any other medical treatment covered by extended healthcare insurance.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,845
    mcgruff10 said:
    But even though you walk in and it is free the money somehow comes from your income.  You don’t know the percentage?
    No, it’s paid for through tax revenues. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,845
    mcgruff10 said:
    But even though you walk in and it is free the money somehow comes from your income.  You don’t know the percentage?
    I think it would be fairly complicated to figure out what portion of each person’s tax burden goes to health care, versus education or schools or any other area.   
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177

    How much does the 'average' Canadian pay in a year for public health care?

    "According to the CIHI, in 2014, the last year for which comparable data was available, Canada spent $5,543 per resident, more than the United Kingdom ($4,986) and Australia ($5,187) but less than Sweden ($6,245) and far less than the United States ($11,126)."
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,010
    edited November 2018
    I think it would be fairly complicated to figure out what portion of each person’s tax burden goes to health care, versus education or schools or any other area.   
    It's impossible. It's not like someone who gets cancer and racks up $300,000 in real care costs is taxed more. Just like people with kids don't pay more income tax because they have kids who go to school and get healthcare and shit. It's all just in the same pool of funds. We all obviously pay income tax based on our income though. And the government distributes all that tax revenue between services and expenses (income taxes and otherwise) as needed.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,338
    jeffbr said:

    How much does the 'average' Canadian pay in a year for public health care?

    "According to the CIHI, in 2014, the last year for which comparable data was available, Canada spent $5,543 per resident, more than the United Kingdom ($4,986) and Australia ($5,187) but less than Sweden ($6,245) and far less than the United States ($11,126)."
    Wow. I knew Americans spend more for their healthcare but I had no idea it was double what Canadians pay. That's criminal.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    We could easily fund healthcare for all Americans if we didn't spend more than the rest of the world combined on "defense".
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    edited November 2018
    PJ_Soul said:
    Why don't you just let him post in peace?? I've never seen anyone get so shit on like this specifically just because he's posting in a thread a lot. Obviously he's doing it because he has a lot to say and is interested. Debate what he's saying, but not the fact that he's saying it.

    Let me speak for Scruffy.

    It's not necessarily him (Spiritual). It's more the fact that what he's saying sucks to hear. Discovering your country blows is a drag. Bliss is best!
    Post edited by Thirty Bills Unpaid on
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,640

    Let me speak for Scruffy.

    It's not necessarily him (Spiritual). It's more the fact that what he's saying sucks to hear. Discovering your country blows is a drag. Bliss is best!
    The us definitely doesn’t suck.  We have room for improvement like anywhere else but it definitely isn’t as bad as some make it out to be.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10 said:
    The us definitely doesn’t suck.  We have room for improvement like anywhere else but it definitely isn’t as bad as some make it out to be.  

    Just busting your balls a bit, Scruffy! You know that.

    Have you listened to Pigeon Camera yet? How about Locked in the Trunk of a Car?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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