Donald Trump

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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,584
    my2hands said:
    Dems had the white house, senate, and house from 2009-2011
    And they focused on healthcare. There weren’t any repubs screaming that we don’t need health care but we do need a wall during 2009-2011.
    Well shit. I didn’t know you could only get 1 thing done in 2 years with the executive and legislative branch in your control. 
    It’s called a “heavy lift.” Finite number of staff to work through the issues to get a major piece of legislation passed and enacted. Care to cite the equivalent repub piece of legislation regardless of issue? And wasn’t one of the chief complaints was that you’re trying to legislate 1/12 of the economy? And yet Dems got it done without one repub vote despite the inclusion, debate, mark ups, etc. And yet you still want to believe “both sides are the same.” The repubs are afraid of their white nationalist base and they have only themselves to blame, see gerrymandering.
     
    In the case of immigration reform I do see both sides as the same. You are the one trying to broaden it.

    and the 1 issue every 2 years argument is bogus.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,155
    my2hands said:
    Dems had the white house, senate, and house from 2009-2011
    And they focused on healthcare. There weren’t any repubs screaming that we don’t need health care but we do need a wall during 2009-2011.
    Well shit. I didn’t know you could only get 1 thing done in 2 years with the executive and legislative branch in your control. 
    It’s called a “heavy lift.” Finite number of staff to work through the issues to get a major piece of legislation passed and enacted. Care to cite the equivalent repub piece of legislation regardless of issue? And wasn’t one of the chief complaints was that you’re trying to legislate 1/12 of the economy? And yet Dems got it done without one repub vote despite the inclusion, debate, mark ups, etc. And yet you still want to believe “both sides are the same.” The repubs are afraid of their white nationalist base and they have only themselves to blame, see gerrymandering.
     
    In the case of immigration reform I do see both sides as the same. You are the one trying to broaden it.

    and the 1 issue every 2 years argument is bogus.
    Again, you seem to be dismissive of what has alreadyt been proposed by a bi-partisan group of senators. Then the white nationalist Mitchy Baby got ascared of his white nationalist base and then Team Trump Treason walked away because President Coulter and VP Rushbo told him to. Yea, both sides are the same. Can you name a repub piece of legislation that has passed that is as significant as healthcare or immigration in its scope and complexity? Better yet, name more than 1 legislative issue of such scope and complexity that has been passed by the repubs when they had all three branches of governoment, seeing how you think its such a simple task? 
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,155
    And this guy has his "finger" on the trigger, this Team Trump Treason?

    Opinion

    Trump finds a cure for his small-hands problem

    Trump aides have been elongating his fingers on social media. What else could they edit?

    By Dana Milbank  •  Read more »


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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,584
    my2hands said:
    Dems had the white house, senate, and house from 2009-2011
    And they focused on healthcare. There weren’t any repubs screaming that we don’t need health care but we do need a wall during 2009-2011.
    Well shit. I didn’t know you could only get 1 thing done in 2 years with the executive and legislative branch in your control. 
    It’s called a “heavy lift.” Finite number of staff to work through the issues to get a major piece of legislation passed and enacted. Care to cite the equivalent repub piece of legislation regardless of issue? And wasn’t one of the chief complaints was that you’re trying to legislate 1/12 of the economy? And yet Dems got it done without one repub vote despite the inclusion, debate, mark ups, etc. And yet you still want to believe “both sides are the same.” The repubs are afraid of their white nationalist base and they have only themselves to blame, see gerrymandering.
     
    In the case of immigration reform I do see both sides as the same. You are the one trying to broaden it.

    and the 1 issue every 2 years argument is bogus.
    Again, you seem to be dismissive of what has alreadyt been proposed by a bi-partisan group of senators. Then the white nationalist Mitchy Baby got ascared of his white nationalist base and then Team Trump Treason walked away because President Coulter and VP Rushbo told him to. Yea, both sides are the same. Can you name a repub piece of legislation that has passed that is as significant as healthcare or immigration in its scope and complexity? Better yet, name more than 1 legislative issue of such scope and complexity that has been passed by the repubs when they had all three branches of governoment, seeing how you think its such a simple task? 
    I’m dismissive of any proposal that hasn’t become law cause it isn’t helping. 

    Why are you deflecting to other issues? We are taking about immigration reform. A party choosing to work on anything else is them saying the other is not as important. That’s my point, neither party actually thinks it’s important.


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  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 1,845
    edited January 23
    my2hands said:
    Dems had the white house, senate, and house from 2009-2011
    And they focused on healthcare. There weren’t any repubs screaming that we don’t need health care but we do need a wall during 2009-2011.
    Well shit. I didn’t know you could only get 1 thing done in 2 years with the executive and legislative branch in your control. 
    It’s called a “heavy lift.” Finite number of staff to work through the issues to get a major piece of legislation passed and enacted. Care to cite the equivalent repub piece of legislation regardless of issue? And wasn’t one of the chief complaints was that you’re trying to legislate 1/12 of the economy? And yet Dems got it done without one repub vote despite the inclusion, debate, mark ups, etc. And yet you still want to believe “both sides are the same.” The repubs are afraid of their white nationalist base and they have only themselves to blame, see gerrymandering.
     
    In the case of immigration reform I do see both sides as the same. You are the one trying to broaden it.

    and the 1 issue every 2 years argument is bogus.
    Again, you seem to be dismissive of what has alreadyt been proposed by a bi-partisan group of senators. Then the white nationalist Mitchy Baby got ascared of his white nationalist base and then Team Trump Treason walked away because President Coulter and VP Rushbo told him to. Yea, both sides are the same. Can you name a repub piece of legislation that has passed that is as significant as healthcare or immigration in its scope and complexity? Better yet, name more than 1 legislative issue of such scope and complexity that has been passed by the repubs when they had all three branches of governoment, seeing how you think its such a simple task? 
    Forget health care.  I agree that multiple important things can be done at the same time.  The reason I'm not buying "both sides" is that the GOP is selling this as the most important initiative since WWII.  And they chose to sit on it for two years until they could use it to try to win a battle vs. democrats (and/or share the blame for such a cluserfuck with them).  And now accuse the Democrats of "playing politics?"  And this whole discussion started with the question of "why did they do that?"  "Both sides" is 50% deflection.

    I actually don't think the GOP wants the wall.  I know Trump does.  But I don't think the rest do.  So they've been deceiving him into thinking they are on his side, thereby allowing themselves to be free of the burden of implementing something with a poor cost-benefit ratio, and winning points with the base by villainizing Democrats. It's a good way to win a game and a bad way to serve a country.  It's awful and it's the GOP.  Fuck them, regardless of what Democrats have done.

    So once again: Why did this go down this way?  Why did the GOP not do this while they had both houses of congress?  Not "well everyone is bad" but this wall; this monument to ending humanitarian crises?  Why wait until weeks until the Dems takeover the House?  
    Post edited by OnWis97 on
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  • And this guy has his "finger" on the trigger, this Team Trump Treason?

    Opinion

    Trump finds a cure for his small-hands problem

    Trump aides have been elongating his fingers on social media. What else could they edit?

    By Dana Milbank  •  Read more »


    Lol

    Poor McDonald.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,584
    OnWis97 said:
    my2hands said:
    Dems had the white house, senate, and house from 2009-2011
    And they focused on healthcare. There weren’t any repubs screaming that we don’t need health care but we do need a wall during 2009-2011.
    Well shit. I didn’t know you could only get 1 thing done in 2 years with the executive and legislative branch in your control. 
    It’s called a “heavy lift.” Finite number of staff to work through the issues to get a major piece of legislation passed and enacted. Care to cite the equivalent repub piece of legislation regardless of issue? And wasn’t one of the chief complaints was that you’re trying to legislate 1/12 of the economy? And yet Dems got it done without one repub vote despite the inclusion, debate, mark ups, etc. And yet you still want to believe “both sides are the same.” The repubs are afraid of their white nationalist base and they have only themselves to blame, see gerrymandering.
     
    In the case of immigration reform I do see both sides as the same. You are the one trying to broaden it.

    and the 1 issue every 2 years argument is bogus.
    Again, you seem to be dismissive of what has alreadyt been proposed by a bi-partisan group of senators. Then the white nationalist Mitchy Baby got ascared of his white nationalist base and then Team Trump Treason walked away because President Coulter and VP Rushbo told him to. Yea, both sides are the same. Can you name a repub piece of legislation that has passed that is as significant as healthcare or immigration in its scope and complexity? Better yet, name more than 1 legislative issue of such scope and complexity that has been passed by the repubs when they had all three branches of governoment, seeing how you think its such a simple task? 
    Forget health care.  I agree that multiple important things can be done at the same time.  The reason I'm not buying "both sides" is that the GOP is selling this as the most important initiative since WWII.  And they chose to sit on it for two years until they could use it to try to win a battle vs. democrats (and/or share the blame for such a cluserfuck with them).  And now accuse the Democrats of "playing politics?"  And this whole discussion started with the question of "why did they do that?"  "Both sides" is 50% deflection.

    I actually don't think the GOP wants the wall.  I know Trump does.  But I don't think the rest do.  So they've been deceiving him into thinking they are on his side, thereby allowing themselves to be free of the burden of implementing something with a poor cost-benefit ratio, and winning points with the base by villainizing Democrats. It's a good way to win a game and a bad way to serve a country.  It's awful and it's the GOP.  Fuck them, regardless of what Democrats have done.
    Im not excusing the pathetic republicans that have made this their current #1 issue just to rule up the base. Just there have been many opportunities for legislation here and nothing has ever gotten done. 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 4,555
    my2hands said:
    Dems had the white house, senate, and house from 2009-2011
    And they focused on healthcare. There weren’t any repubs screaming that we don’t need health care but we do need a wall during 2009-2011.
    Well shit. I didn’t know you could only get 1 thing done in 2 years with the executive and legislative branch in your control. 
    It’s called a “heavy lift.” Finite number of staff to work through the issues to get a major piece of legislation passed and enacted. Care to cite the equivalent repub piece of legislation regardless of issue? And wasn’t one of the chief complaints was that you’re trying to legislate 1/12 of the economy? And yet Dems got it done without one repub vote despite the inclusion, debate, mark ups, etc. And yet you still want to believe “both sides are the same.” The repubs are afraid of their white nationalist base and they have only themselves to blame, see gerrymandering.
     
    In the case of immigration reform I do see both sides as the same. You are the one trying to broaden it.

    and the 1 issue every 2 years argument is bogus.

    Hmmmm....where have I heard this before?

    Both sides are bad on immigration.  It's called horseshoe politics and it's what got Britain into this Brexit mess, courtesy of a little Russian propaganda assistance.  

    And now you're promoting it here.  Watch as this narrative continues to get pushed.  It all helps with their goal : "Deconstruction of the administrative state"
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  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,559
    CM189191 said:
    my2hands said:
    Dems had the white house, senate, and house from 2009-2011
    And they focused on healthcare. There weren’t any repubs screaming that we don’t need health care but we do need a wall during 2009-2011.
    Well shit. I didn’t know you could only get 1 thing done in 2 years with the executive and legislative branch in your control. 
    It’s called a “heavy lift.” Finite number of staff to work through the issues to get a major piece of legislation passed and enacted. Care to cite the equivalent repub piece of legislation regardless of issue? And wasn’t one of the chief complaints was that you’re trying to legislate 1/12 of the economy? And yet Dems got it done without one repub vote despite the inclusion, debate, mark ups, etc. And yet you still want to believe “both sides are the same.” The repubs are afraid of their white nationalist base and they have only themselves to blame, see gerrymandering.
     
    In the case of immigration reform I do see both sides as the same. You are the one trying to broaden it.

    and the 1 issue every 2 years argument is bogus.

    Hmmmm....where have I heard this before?

    Both sides are bad on immigration.  It's called horseshoe politics and it's what got Britain into this Brexit mess, courtesy of a little Russian propaganda assistance.  

    And now you're promoting it here.  Watch as this narrative continues to get pushed.  It all helps with their goal : "Deconstruction of the administrative state"
    Breaking shit just to break it is TREASON.
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  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere.Posts: 3,709
    Putin celebrates every day at how destabilized America has become at the hands of his puppet.


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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,584
    CM189191 said:
    my2hands said:
    Dems had the white house, senate, and house from 2009-2011
    And they focused on healthcare. There weren’t any repubs screaming that we don’t need health care but we do need a wall during 2009-2011.
    Well shit. I didn’t know you could only get 1 thing done in 2 years with the executive and legislative branch in your control. 
    It’s called a “heavy lift.” Finite number of staff to work through the issues to get a major piece of legislation passed and enacted. Care to cite the equivalent repub piece of legislation regardless of issue? And wasn’t one of the chief complaints was that you’re trying to legislate 1/12 of the economy? And yet Dems got it done without one repub vote despite the inclusion, debate, mark ups, etc. And yet you still want to believe “both sides are the same.” The repubs are afraid of their white nationalist base and they have only themselves to blame, see gerrymandering.
     
    In the case of immigration reform I do see both sides as the same. You are the one trying to broaden it.

    and the 1 issue every 2 years argument is bogus.

    Hmmmm....where have I heard this before?

    Both sides are bad on immigration.  It's called horseshoe politics and it's what got Britain into this Brexit mess, courtesy of a little Russian propaganda assistance.  

    And now you're promoting it here.  Watch as this narrative continues to get pushed.  It all helps with their goal : "Deconstruction of the administrative state"
    What the hell are you talking about? 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,155
    my2hands said:
    Dems had the white house, senate, and house from 2009-2011
    And they focused on healthcare. There weren’t any repubs screaming that we don’t need health care but we do need a wall during 2009-2011.
    Well shit. I didn’t know you could only get 1 thing done in 2 years with the executive and legislative branch in your control. 
    It’s called a “heavy lift.” Finite number of staff to work through the issues to get a major piece of legislation passed and enacted. Care to cite the equivalent repub piece of legislation regardless of issue? And wasn’t one of the chief complaints was that you’re trying to legislate 1/12 of the economy? And yet Dems got it done without one repub vote despite the inclusion, debate, mark ups, etc. And yet you still want to believe “both sides are the same.” The repubs are afraid of their white nationalist base and they have only themselves to blame, see gerrymandering.
     
    In the case of immigration reform I do see both sides as the same. You are the one trying to broaden it.

    and the 1 issue every 2 years argument is bogus.
    Again, you seem to be dismissive of what has alreadyt been proposed by a bi-partisan group of senators. Then the white nationalist Mitchy Baby got ascared of his white nationalist base and then Team Trump Treason walked away because President Coulter and VP Rushbo told him to. Yea, both sides are the same. Can you name a repub piece of legislation that has passed that is as significant as healthcare or immigration in its scope and complexity? Better yet, name more than 1 legislative issue of such scope and complexity that has been passed by the repubs when they had all three branches of governoment, seeing how you think its such a simple task? 
    I’m dismissive of any proposal that hasn’t become law cause it isn’t helping. 

    Why are you deflecting to other issues? We are taking about immigration reform. A party choosing to work on anything else is them saying the other is not as important. That’s my point, neither party actually thinks it’s important.


    I'm not deflecting, I'm comparing what are two major pieces of legislation and the difficult complexity of getting them passed. And the repubs have stood in the way of both while one party, the repubs, thinks or wants you to believe illegal immigration is a crisis of epic proportions, a humanitarian crisis. However, the other party, the dems, deal in reality. The dems also think its important but that it should include the Dreamers, not a wall and be part of an immigration overhaul with a more defined path to citizenship. The repubs just want a wall and most likely, don't even want that because their own DHS facts have shown that the vast majority of illegals are people who enter through a port and overstay their visas and the illegal drugs also come through ports of entry. The wall is a fucking boondoggle but no repubs have the balls to tell Team Trump Treason or their white nationalist base. Yet, you still think both sides are the same. And think its an easy fix.
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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,584
    my2hands said:
    Dems had the white house, senate, and house from 2009-2011
    And they focused on healthcare. There weren’t any repubs screaming that we don’t need health care but we do need a wall during 2009-2011.
    Well shit. I didn’t know you could only get 1 thing done in 2 years with the executive and legislative branch in your control. 
    It’s called a “heavy lift.” Finite number of staff to work through the issues to get a major piece of legislation passed and enacted. Care to cite the equivalent repub piece of legislation regardless of issue? And wasn’t one of the chief complaints was that you’re trying to legislate 1/12 of the economy? And yet Dems got it done without one repub vote despite the inclusion, debate, mark ups, etc. And yet you still want to believe “both sides are the same.” The repubs are afraid of their white nationalist base and they have only themselves to blame, see gerrymandering.
     
    In the case of immigration reform I do see both sides as the same. You are the one trying to broaden it.

    and the 1 issue every 2 years argument is bogus.
    Again, you seem to be dismissive of what has alreadyt been proposed by a bi-partisan group of senators. Then the white nationalist Mitchy Baby got ascared of his white nationalist base and then Team Trump Treason walked away because President Coulter and VP Rushbo told him to. Yea, both sides are the same. Can you name a repub piece of legislation that has passed that is as significant as healthcare or immigration in its scope and complexity? Better yet, name more than 1 legislative issue of such scope and complexity that has been passed by the repubs when they had all three branches of governoment, seeing how you think its such a simple task? 
    I’m dismissive of any proposal that hasn’t become law cause it isn’t helping. 

    Why are you deflecting to other issues? We are taking about immigration reform. A party choosing to work on anything else is them saying the other is not as important. That’s my point, neither party actually thinks it’s important.


    I'm not deflecting, I'm comparing what are two major pieces of legislation and the difficult complexity of getting them passed. And the repubs have stood in the way of both while one party, the repubs, thinks or wants you to believe illegal immigration is a crisis of epic proportions, a humanitarian crisis. However, the other party, the dems, deal in reality. The dems also think its important but that it should include the Dreamers, not a wall and be part of an immigration overhaul with a more defined path to citizenship. The repubs just want a wall and most likely, don't even want that because their own DHS facts have shown that the vast majority of illegals are people who enter through a port and overstay their visas and the illegal drugs also come through ports of entry. The wall is a fucking boondoggle but no repubs have the balls to tell Team Trump Treason or their white nationalist base. Yet, you still think both sides are the same. And think its an easy fix.
    1) I said they are the same in that neither have done enough when they had power and I think they prefer to keep it as an issue to get voters.  Not that they are exactly the same.  That is you and others here trying to put words in my mouth instead of having an actual discussion

    2) I don't think it's an easy fix...what does that have to do with anything?  I think it gets harder and harder every year as we basically ignore the issue.  And I'm not talking about a fucking wall.  I am talking about securing the borders, proper path to citizenship and some process for people here illegally already.  It's not rocket science.  And yes the republicans, especially the last 10 years have been leading the way in making it an issue and then doing nothing about it.
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  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 11,683
    I’m dismissive of any proposal that hasn’t become law cause it isn’t helping. 

    Why are you deflecting to other issues? We are taking about immigration reform. A party choosing to work on anything else is them saying the other is not as important. That’s my point, neither party actually thinks it’s important.


    Forget about the parties for a second - can you tell me why immigration reform is important, and I'm only asumming a priority, for you?
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,155
    my2hands said:
    Dems had the white house, senate, and house from 2009-2011
    And they focused on healthcare. There weren’t any repubs screaming that we don’t need health care but we do need a wall during 2009-2011.
    Well shit. I didn’t know you could only get 1 thing done in 2 years with the executive and legislative branch in your control. 
    It’s called a “heavy lift.” Finite number of staff to work through the issues to get a major piece of legislation passed and enacted. Care to cite the equivalent repub piece of legislation regardless of issue? And wasn’t one of the chief complaints was that you’re trying to legislate 1/12 of the economy? And yet Dems got it done without one repub vote despite the inclusion, debate, mark ups, etc. And yet you still want to believe “both sides are the same.” The repubs are afraid of their white nationalist base and they have only themselves to blame, see gerrymandering.
     
    In the case of immigration reform I do see both sides as the same. You are the one trying to broaden it.

    and the 1 issue every 2 years argument is bogus.
    Again, you seem to be dismissive of what has alreadyt been proposed by a bi-partisan group of senators. Then the white nationalist Mitchy Baby got ascared of his white nationalist base and then Team Trump Treason walked away because President Coulter and VP Rushbo told him to. Yea, both sides are the same. Can you name a repub piece of legislation that has passed that is as significant as healthcare or immigration in its scope and complexity? Better yet, name more than 1 legislative issue of such scope and complexity that has been passed by the repubs when they had all three branches of governoment, seeing how you think its such a simple task? 
    I’m dismissive of any proposal that hasn’t become law cause it isn’t helping. 

    Why are you deflecting to other issues? We are taking about immigration reform. A party choosing to work on anything else is them saying the other is not as important. That’s my point, neither party actually thinks it’s important.


    I'm not deflecting, I'm comparing what are two major pieces of legislation and the difficult complexity of getting them passed. And the repubs have stood in the way of both while one party, the repubs, thinks or wants you to believe illegal immigration is a crisis of epic proportions, a humanitarian crisis. However, the other party, the dems, deal in reality. The dems also think its important but that it should include the Dreamers, not a wall and be part of an immigration overhaul with a more defined path to citizenship. The repubs just want a wall and most likely, don't even want that because their own DHS facts have shown that the vast majority of illegals are people who enter through a port and overstay their visas and the illegal drugs also come through ports of entry. The wall is a fucking boondoggle but no repubs have the balls to tell Team Trump Treason or their white nationalist base. Yet, you still think both sides are the same. And think its an easy fix.
    1) I said they are the same in that neither have done enough when they had power and I think they prefer to keep it as an issue to get voters.  Not that they are exactly the same.  That is you and others here trying to put words in my mouth instead of having an actual discussion

    2) I don't think it's an easy fix...what does that have to do with anything?  I think it gets harder and harder every year as we basically ignore the issue.  And I'm not talking about a fucking wall.  I am talking about securing the borders, proper path to citizenship and some process for people here illegally already.  It's not rocket science.  And yes the republicans, especially the last 10 years have been leading the way in making it an issue and then doing nothing about it.
    But one party thought they actually had a deal, twice. Do you not see the difference? "Its not rocket science." Didn't say it was but its a complex issue with a lot of different and varying constituencies with competing priorities. You make it sound as if its as easy as naming a post office. It wasn't a priority until Team Trump Treason gothis adoring crowds to chant build the wall and Mexico's going to pay for it. He doesn't have a clue.
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  • mfc2006mfc2006 PDX--->KCPosts: 31,999
    edited January 23
    Cohen is postponing his February testimony due to threats against his family.
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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,584
    I’m dismissive of any proposal that hasn’t become law cause it isn’t helping. 

    Why are you deflecting to other issues? We are taking about immigration reform. A party choosing to work on anything else is them saying the other is not as important. That’s my point, neither party actually thinks it’s important.


    Forget about the parties for a second - can you tell me why immigration reform is important, and I'm only asumming a priority, for you?
    Sure thing.  Immigration is important for me.  I'm unsure where it ranks but it's up there.  We shouldn't have people living in this country and not being a full part of it.  It's not fair to them or anyone really.  We have allowed it to become a mess cause we have an inadequate immigration policy.  We don't enforce the Visas.  We don't secure our borders/ports well enough.  And we create a situation where people want to sneak in because we do not have a solid, quick process to follow legally.  It creates strain within the country.  People wondering if people are here legally...making snide comments to them.  That's not cool.  But we set it up with a terrible system.  And it effects the overall morale of a lot of people in the USA.  It effects some trying to get jobs at decent wages that are undercut by illegals immigrants.  It effects the illegal immigrants cause they have to be shadows throughout their lives, never fully being able to participate in life.  it effects people that look like they are from central america, etc and are here illegally because they have to put up with nonsense from people judging them.

    I'd start any immigration reform with the following items:

    1) True documented process for VISA overstays.  How will people be tracked and what happens when they are past their dates.  No more ignoring
    2) Border/port security.  Not a wall but funding for technology, camps, and agents.
    3) Process for current illegal immigrants in the USA to become citizens.  It won't be them all, but establish some criteria and move forward.  There will need to be deportations.  Even providing language services so they can learn english as it will help in every day life.
    4) Improve, quicken the process for legal immigration.  Set appropriate limits based on data.

    No one wins with the current setup.  It just generates hate from everyone.  Any fix has to comprehensive or we end up back in the same place.
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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,584
    edited January 23
    "But there is another explanation for why immigration has long been relegated to the Democratic Party’s back burner. Until recently, Americans have tended to view immigration less as a moral issue and more in crass economic terms. “Though everyone says the system is broken, there’s also a nod-nod wink-wink belief that it is broke, so don’t fix it,” Appleby said. “The crops are being picked. The tables are being bused. The only wronged party are the undocumented immigrants with little political power, and no one’s ever been voted out of office because immigration reform failed to pass.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/10/magazine/the-democrats-have-an-immigration-problem.html


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  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 6,635
    mfc2006 said:
    Cohen is postponing his February testimony due to threats against his family.
    Damn it! I was really looking forward to this.
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,155
    mfc2006 said:
    Cohen is postponing his February testimony due to threats against his family.
    Witness tampering 
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  • ikiTikiT USAPosts: 7,559
    CM189191 said:
    my2hands said:
    Dems had the white house, senate, and house from 2009-2011
    And they focused on healthcare. There weren’t any repubs screaming that we don’t need health care but we do need a wall during 2009-2011.
    Well shit. I didn’t know you could only get 1 thing done in 2 years with the executive and legislative branch in your control. 
    It’s called a “heavy lift.” Finite number of staff to work through the issues to get a major piece of legislation passed and enacted. Care to cite the equivalent repub piece of legislation regardless of issue? And wasn’t one of the chief complaints was that you’re trying to legislate 1/12 of the economy? And yet Dems got it done without one repub vote despite the inclusion, debate, mark ups, etc. And yet you still want to believe “both sides are the same.” The repubs are afraid of their white nationalist base and they have only themselves to blame, see gerrymandering.
     
    In the case of immigration reform I do see both sides as the same. You are the one trying to broaden it.

    and the 1 issue every 2 years argument is bogus.

    Hmmmm....where have I heard this before?

    Both sides are bad on immigration.  It's called horseshoe politics and it's what got Britain into this Brexit mess, courtesy of a little Russian propaganda assistance.  

    And now you're promoting it here.  Watch as this narrative continues to get pushed.  It all helps with their goal : "Deconstruction of the administrative state"
    What the hell are you talking about? 
    why so hostile?
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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,584
    edited January 23
    Tiki said:
    CM189191 said:
    my2hands said:
    Dems had the white house, senate, and house from 2009-2011
    And they focused on healthcare. There weren’t any repubs screaming that we don’t need health care but we do need a wall during 2009-2011.
    Well shit. I didn’t know you could only get 1 thing done in 2 years with the executive and legislative branch in your control. 
    It’s called a “heavy lift.” Finite number of staff to work through the issues to get a major piece of legislation passed and enacted. Care to cite the equivalent repub piece of legislation regardless of issue? And wasn’t one of the chief complaints was that you’re trying to legislate 1/12 of the economy? And yet Dems got it done without one repub vote despite the inclusion, debate, mark ups, etc. And yet you still want to believe “both sides are the same.” The repubs are afraid of their white nationalist base and they have only themselves to blame, see gerrymandering.
     
    In the case of immigration reform I do see both sides as the same. You are the one trying to broaden it.

    and the 1 issue every 2 years argument is bogus.

    Hmmmm....where have I heard this before?

    Both sides are bad on immigration.  It's called horseshoe politics and it's what got Britain into this Brexit mess, courtesy of a little Russian propaganda assistance.  

    And now you're promoting it here.  Watch as this narrative continues to get pushed.  It all helps with their goal : "Deconstruction of the administrative state"
    What the hell are you talking about? 
    why so hostile?
    You think that is hostile?  I literally have no idea what the hell he is talking about.  So you not like the use of the word hell?  

    Dude called my opinion "horsehit" another said it was the "white nationalist agenda".  Yet "hell" bothers you?
    Post edited by cincybearcat on
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  • LizardLizard So CalPosts: 11,931
    mfc2006 said:
    Cohen is postponing his February testimony due to threats against his family.
    and made by our fucking President.

    what the hell is it gonna take for the GOP to DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS
    Is it over yet? #ITMFA
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 13,743
    OnWis97 said:
    my2hands said:
    Dems had the white house, senate, and house from 2009-2011
    And they focused on healthcare. There weren’t any repubs screaming that we don’t need health care but we do need a wall during 2009-2011.
    Well shit. I didn’t know you could only get 1 thing done in 2 years with the executive and legislative branch in your control. 
    It’s called a “heavy lift.” Finite number of staff to work through the issues to get a major piece of legislation passed and enacted. Care to cite the equivalent repub piece of legislation regardless of issue? And wasn’t one of the chief complaints was that you’re trying to legislate 1/12 of the economy? And yet Dems got it done without one repub vote despite the inclusion, debate, mark ups, etc. And yet you still want to believe “both sides are the same.” The repubs are afraid of their white nationalist base and they have only themselves to blame, see gerrymandering.
     
    In the case of immigration reform I do see both sides as the same. You are the one trying to broaden it.

    and the 1 issue every 2 years argument is bogus.
    Again, you seem to be dismissive of what has alreadyt been proposed by a bi-partisan group of senators. Then the white nationalist Mitchy Baby got ascared of his white nationalist base and then Team Trump Treason walked away because President Coulter and VP Rushbo told him to. Yea, both sides are the same. Can you name a repub piece of legislation that has passed that is as significant as healthcare or immigration in its scope and complexity? Better yet, name more than 1 legislative issue of such scope and complexity that has been passed by the repubs when they had all three branches of governoment, seeing how you think its such a simple task? 
    Forget health care.  I agree that multiple important things can be done at the same time.  The reason I'm not buying "both sides" is that the GOP is selling this as the most important initiative since WWII.  And they chose to sit on it for two years until they could use it to try to win a battle vs. democrats (and/or share the blame for such a cluserfuck with them).  And now accuse the Democrats of "playing politics?"  And this whole discussion started with the question of "why did they do that?"  "Both sides" is 50% deflection.

    I actually don't think the GOP wants the wall.  I know Trump does.  But I don't think the rest do.  So they've been deceiving him into thinking they are on his side, thereby allowing themselves to be free of the burden of implementing something with a poor cost-benefit ratio, and winning points with the base by villainizing Democrats. It's a good way to win a game and a bad way to serve a country.  It's awful and it's the GOP.  Fuck them, regardless of what Democrats have done.
    Im not excusing the pathetic republicans that have made this their current #1 issue just to rule up the base. Just there have been many opportunities for legislation here and nothing has ever gotten done. 
    2009 to 2011 was in the height of the financial crisis.  The Democrats passed the Stimulus package, the Card Act, Dodd-Frank along with Obamacare during that congress.  Personally I don't love DF, but the other two were pretty important laws and have completely changed healthcare and how we regulate financial institutions.  Immigration was not a top of mind issue to the general public during that Congress.  I don't think it's fair to point to those very difficult financial years and wonder why they didn't deal with DACA.  That was a very active congressional session. 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,155
    Tiki said:
    CM189191 said:
    my2hands said:
    Dems had the white house, senate, and house from 2009-2011
    And they focused on healthcare. There weren’t any repubs screaming that we don’t need health care but we do need a wall during 2009-2011.
    Well shit. I didn’t know you could only get 1 thing done in 2 years with the executive and legislative branch in your control. 
    It’s called a “heavy lift.” Finite number of staff to work through the issues to get a major piece of legislation passed and enacted. Care to cite the equivalent repub piece of legislation regardless of issue? And wasn’t one of the chief complaints was that you’re trying to legislate 1/12 of the economy? And yet Dems got it done without one repub vote despite the inclusion, debate, mark ups, etc. And yet you still want to believe “both sides are the same.” The repubs are afraid of their white nationalist base and they have only themselves to blame, see gerrymandering.
     
    In the case of immigration reform I do see both sides as the same. You are the one trying to broaden it.

    and the 1 issue every 2 years argument is bogus.

    Hmmmm....where have I heard this before?

    Both sides are bad on immigration.  It's called horseshoe politics and it's what got Britain into this Brexit mess, courtesy of a little Russian propaganda assistance.  

    And now you're promoting it here.  Watch as this narrative continues to get pushed.  It all helps with their goal : "Deconstruction of the administrative state"
    What the hell are you talking about? 
    why so hostile?
    You think that is hostile?  I literally have no idea what the hell he is talking about.  So you not like the use of the word hell?  

    Dude called my opinion "horsehit" another said it was the "white nationalist agenda".  Yet "hell" bothers you?
    For the record, I did not call your opinion “the white nationalist agenda.”
     
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  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere.Posts: 3,709
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,155
    Kat said:
    Team Trump Treason should address a half empty senate chamber as he’s not including Dems or reaching across the aisle. It’ll be great watching him go off the rails.
     
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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,584
    Kat said:
    I'd be interested in other's honest takes on this issue.  Cause IMO, while trump has been losing the battles on the shutdown and the wall and looking like a child with his canceling of planes...this is a petty act by Pelosi.  My initial take.  And it gives trump a, "See how they treat me as president" opportunity.  I do not see the value in what Pelosi is doing.  Trump put her in a bad spot and won this stupid battle.
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  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere.Posts: 3,709
    edited January 23
    My honest take is that history will look kindly on the idea that a sotu should not take place while the government is being held hostage by a thug president.
    Added: You cannot give in to extortion or blackmail because it enables the blackmailer for next time. I want to see shutdowns become illegal so that no party can ever use it again. 
    Post edited by Kat on
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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 34,548
    Kat said:
    I'd be interested in other's honest takes on this issue.  Cause IMO, while trump has been losing the battles on the shutdown and the wall and looking like a child with his canceling of planes...this is a petty act by Pelosi.  My initial take.  And it gives trump a, "See how they treat me as president" opportunity.  I do not see the value in what Pelosi is doing.  Trump put her in a bad spot and won this stupid battle.
    I thought that at first because it gave Trump the rare opportunity to take the high road. Then he turns around and makes her get off the airplane runway last week. So he doubled down on her pettiness.

    At this point, I am glad that she held her ground. I don't think she had a choice. The problem in her initial canceling letter was citing security concerns. The reasoning should always have been just because the government is shut down. That makes sense to not have a state of the union while he has his own government shut down. The whole thing is pretty childish though. 
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