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Donald Trump

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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,752
    ..........

    “In the compilation process, it is not the role of the accountant to assess the values,” said Gerald J. Rosenblum, one of the accountants. “The role is to accept those values and move them forward.”

    An attorney asked: Do the values have to be logical?

    “The value per se does not have to be logical,” Rosenblum said. He and Lokey were deposed as part of a lawsuit in which Trump sued a New York Times reporter for allegedly lowballing his net worth. Trump’s suit against the reporter was later dismissed.

    In 2014, Trump used the same accounting firm to prepare financial information for his most expensive development project in decades, his $200 million transformation of the historic Old Post Office Pavilion in downtown Washington into a Trump International Hotel.

    But in that case, Mazars vouched for the accuracy of the information, writing that the firm “is responsible for the preparation and fair presentation of these financial statements” using industry standard accounting rules. This was a formal audit of finances related just to Trump’s D.C. hotel, rather than a summation of all of his assets based on Trump’s own estimates.

    The statements Cohen provided to The Post — and to Congress — begin in 2011. Two of them are 20-page “Statements of Financial Condition” signed by Trump’s accountants.

    In his testimony to Congress, Cohen said these statements included Trump’s self-appraisals of his buildings’ value — which aimed to impress, instead of aiming for reality. Cohen said Trump would take real measures of value, such as the amount of money his tenants paid in rent, and simply inflate it until he got a number he liked.

    “If you’re going off of your rent roll, you go by the gross rent roll times a multiple,” Cohen said. “And you make up the multiple.”

    The documents begin with two-page disclaimers, warning of various ways in which the statements don’t follow normal accounting rules. The accountants note that Trump is the source of many buildings’ valuations — and that, contrary to normal accounting rules, he had inflated them by counting future income that wasn’t guaranteed.

    Accountant's warning

    Document states We have not audited or reviewed the accompanying financial statement

    Trump calls this a "statement of financial condition." But right away, his accounting firm is warning readers that it hasn't checked anything in this document to be sure it's accurate.

    The accountants also note that Trump had told them to simply omit two of his major hotels, in Chicago and Las Vegas. Both buildings were carrying mortgages. That omission means that some of Trump’s actual debt load was hidden from anyone reading the statement.

    “Users of this financial statement should recognize that they might reach different conclusions about the financial condition of Donald J. Trump” if they had more information, the statement concludes.

    Legal experts interviewed by The Post said that sort of broad disclaimer might shield Trump from allegations that he misled his lenders and insurers. After all, his own accountants told readers they weren’t getting the full story.

    “The transparent disclaimers — even if frustrating — typically wipe out a basis” for bringing charges of fraud, said Jacob Frenkel, a former federal prosecutor who is now a private attorney at Dickinson Wright.

    In 2012, Trump’s statement said he owned a 2,000-acre vineyard in Virginia. But land records in Virginia show the Trump family owns about 1,200 acres. The Trump winery’s own website says 1,300 acres..............


    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,752

    Exaggerates size of vineyard

    Document states a 2000 acre vineyard

    The vineyard sits on a 1,205 acre property, of which only about 227 acres are planted with grapes.

    In 2011, the statements said that Trump’s Seven Springs estate in Westchester County, N.Y., was “zoned for nine luxurious homes.” In the statement, Trump said those homes would yield significant cash flow as he built them and sold them. That led him to value the property at $261 million — far more than the roughly $20 million value assigned by local assessors.

    Exaggerates value of Westchester County estate

    Document states It has been valued at 261000000 based on an assessment made by Mr Trump

    At the time, local officials assessed the land’s value at about $20 million, a fraction of the value Trump assessed.

    At the time, Trump had received preliminary “conceptual approval” to build homes on the site. But local officials said he never finished the last step in the approval process to build the homes or sell the lots.

    None of the homes was built.

    The 2013 statement that Cohen provided — and which he said was also given to Deutsche Bank, in pursuit of a loan to buy the Bills — is different from the other two.

    It is just two pages long, with a slightly different title: “Summary of Net Worth.” It does not include the usual disclaimer from Trump’s accountants, so readers aren’t told that the debts from Trump’s Chicago and Las Vegas hotels are missing.

    Two buildings are missing

    Document states The accompany statement of financial condition does not include the following for Trump International Hotel and Tower Chicago and Trump Intenration Hotel  Tower Las Vegas 1 real property and related assets 2 Mortgages and loans payable and 3 guarantees which Donald J Trump may have provided

    Here, Trump is exaggerating his wealth by leaving two major parts of his portfolio out. His buildings in Las Vegas and Chicago -- both of which had loans attached to them -- are simply left out of this statement. Without them, readers can't get a full picture of how much he owes, and to whom.

    This document also includes a new “asset” that wasn’t there before.

    It says that Trump’s brand value — his name, essentially — was worth $4 billion, and that it ought to be counted among his assets as if it were a building or a resort. With his brand included, Trump’s net worth jumped from $4.6 billion to $8.6 billion.


    Trump’s $4 billion asset

    Trump added “brand value” as an asset in 2013, valued at $4 billion, doubling his net worth from previous years......

    For Trump, the Bills would have been a financial prize far larger than any he had won in the recent past: Bids were expected to be around $1 billion.

    In public, Trump had bragged that he was ready to pay $1 billion in cash. But privately, one of his lieutenants told a business contact that they were struggling with the bid.

    “We are looking at the Bills but Allen and I are having trouble making the numbers work!!!” wrote Ron Lieberman, an executive vice president at the Trump Organization, in an email to a contact in the New York City parks department. “Allen” likely meant Allen Weisselberg, Trump’s longtime chief financial officer.

    Lieberman’s email was released this year in response to a public-records request from a nonprofit group, NYC Park Advocates. Lieberman and Weisselberg did not respond to requests for comment this week.

    Whatever Trump sent to Deutsche Bank, it seems to have been enough: The New York Times reported that Deutsche Bank agreed to vouch for Trump’s bid for the Bills, citing an unnamed executive. But Trump lost a bidding war, and somebody else bought the team.


    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,811
    my2hands said:
    Might help the democrats in 2020 if the 50 investigations into Big Don were squashed, unless they come up with something really good and a smoking gun.... i just dont think people are going to care about tax issues and shady real estate dealings... maybe if the media and intelligence services didn't hype up collusion and the puppet myth, but after all the hype that is where the bar is currently at, anything short of pictures of him giving Putin a handjob might just strengthen him in 2020....

    Investigate away, but you better come up with something good or it could backfire
    That echo chamber talk. Newest approval rating show no sympathy bump for the King and nearly everyone wants Mueller’s report out. The majority want the corruption reigned in and any dem will incorporate this in their campaign. Only the minority are being duped. 
    I don't know which poll you are speaking of, but a Fox poll and a CNN one showed essentially the same thing.  People's perception of Trump will not change regardless of the final outcome of the special counsel, are locked in.  There are very few people swayed by the result.  Other factors will affect 2020, but not this.  
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    rustneversleepsrustneversleeps The Motel of Lost Companions Posts: 2,209
    my2hands said:
    Go Phillies!
    hotdogs, sunshine, cold beer, dank herbs, paid time off, Opening Day Phillies Baseball.   this really is the greatest country in the world....
  • Options
    my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    my2hands said:
    Go Phillies!
    hotdogs, sunshine, cold beer, dank herbs, paid time off, Opening Day Phillies Baseball.   this really is the greatest country in the world....
    I need to hang out with my boy rustneversleeps, he knows the deal!
  • Options
    dignindignin Posts: 9,304
    mrussel1 said:
    my2hands said:
    Might help the democrats in 2020 if the 50 investigations into Big Don were squashed, unless they come up with something really good and a smoking gun.... i just dont think people are going to care about tax issues and shady real estate dealings... maybe if the media and intelligence services didn't hype up collusion and the puppet myth, but after all the hype that is where the bar is currently at, anything short of pictures of him giving Putin a handjob might just strengthen him in 2020....

    Investigate away, but you better come up with something good or it could backfire
    That echo chamber talk. Newest approval rating show no sympathy bump for the King and nearly everyone wants Mueller’s report out. The majority want the corruption reigned in and any dem will incorporate this in their campaign. Only the minority are being duped. 
    I don't know which poll you are speaking of, but a Fox poll and a CNN one showed essentially the same thing.  People's perception of Trump will not change regardless of the final outcome of the special counsel, are locked in.  There are very few people swayed by the result.  Other factors will affect 2020, but not this.  
    I don't believe that. There could be things in that report that motivate non-voters to vote and soft Republicans to stay home. We really don't know how this will all play out yet.

    The GOP wouldn't be trying to hide the report if they didn't think it would damage them politically. 
  • Options
    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,811
    dignin said:
    mrussel1 said:
    my2hands said:
    Might help the democrats in 2020 if the 50 investigations into Big Don were squashed, unless they come up with something really good and a smoking gun.... i just dont think people are going to care about tax issues and shady real estate dealings... maybe if the media and intelligence services didn't hype up collusion and the puppet myth, but after all the hype that is where the bar is currently at, anything short of pictures of him giving Putin a handjob might just strengthen him in 2020....

    Investigate away, but you better come up with something good or it could backfire
    That echo chamber talk. Newest approval rating show no sympathy bump for the King and nearly everyone wants Mueller’s report out. The majority want the corruption reigned in and any dem will incorporate this in their campaign. Only the minority are being duped. 
    I don't know which poll you are speaking of, but a Fox poll and a CNN one showed essentially the same thing.  People's perception of Trump will not change regardless of the final outcome of the special counsel, are locked in.  There are very few people swayed by the result.  Other factors will affect 2020, but not this.  
    I don't believe that. There could be things in that report that motivate non-voters to vote and soft Republicans to stay home. We really don't know how this will all play out yet.

    The GOP wouldn't be trying to hide the report if they didn't think it would damage them politically. 
    You're talking about turnout and I agree with that statement. Trust me, I'm fully onboard with the report being released, but I'm saying it's not flipping a Dem to Trump and vice versa.  Opinions of the man are locked in, probably more so than any politician I've ever seen.  
  • Options
    Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,733
    mrussel1 said:
    my2hands said:
    Might help the democrats in 2020 if the 50 investigations into Big Don were squashed, unless they come up with something really good and a smoking gun.... i just dont think people are going to care about tax issues and shady real estate dealings... maybe if the media and intelligence services didn't hype up collusion and the puppet myth, but after all the hype that is where the bar is currently at, anything short of pictures of him giving Putin a handjob might just strengthen him in 2020....

    Investigate away, but you better come up with something good or it could backfire
    That echo chamber talk. Newest approval rating show no sympathy bump for the King and nearly everyone wants Mueller’s report out. The majority want the corruption reigned in and any dem will incorporate this in their campaign. Only the minority are being duped. 
    I don't know which poll you are speaking of, but a Fox poll and a CNN one showed essentially the same thing.  People's perception of Trump will not change regardless of the final outcome of the special counsel, are locked in.  There are very few people swayed by the result.  Other factors will affect 2020, but not this.  
    We don’t have the result yet and most people know this. 
  • Options
    BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 10,590
    brianlux said:
    Tiki said:
    nothing any of us does matters...why try?  
    That's exactly what Trump supporters (and climate change deniers and anti-environmentalists and racists and anti social justice people, and the NRA, etc. etc.) would like- for us to just throw our hands up and do nothing. 

    When people tell me I'm wasting my time trying to voice an opinion or make a difference, it motivates me to try harder, not give in.  To fuck with giving in, I say!

  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,945
    brianlux said:
    Tiki said:
    nothing any of us does matters...why try?  
    That's exactly what Trump supporters (and climate change deniers and anti-environmentalists and racists and anti social justice people, and the NRA, etc. etc.) would like- for us to just throw our hands up and do nothing. 

    When people tell me I'm wasting my time trying to voice an opinion or make a difference, it motivates me to try harder, not give in.  To fuck with giving in, I say!

    These brothers say, "Right on"!

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,457
    What’s the healcare program that the Baffoon will implement anyone know maybe BS knows ..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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    Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    What’s the healcare program that the Baffoon will implement anyone know maybe BS knows ..
    It doesn't matter what healthcare program he implements, whether its Obamacare or whatever...it will remain substandard to most of us with common sense...and yes Obamacare is substandard healthcare.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Options
    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,457
    What’s the healcare program that the Baffoon will implement anyone know maybe BS knows ..
    It doesn't matter what healthcare program he implements, whether its Obamacare or whatever...it will remain substandard to most of us with common sense...and yes Obamacare is substandard healthcare.
    20 plus million folks depend on it yes it’s not perfect and it needs tweaking , so what do you suggest just get rid of it and leave 20 million folks with no insurance..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Options
    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,811
    mrussel1 said:
    my2hands said:
    Might help the democrats in 2020 if the 50 investigations into Big Don were squashed, unless they come up with something really good and a smoking gun.... i just dont think people are going to care about tax issues and shady real estate dealings... maybe if the media and intelligence services didn't hype up collusion and the puppet myth, but after all the hype that is where the bar is currently at, anything short of pictures of him giving Putin a handjob might just strengthen him in 2020....

    Investigate away, but you better come up with something good or it could backfire
    That echo chamber talk. Newest approval rating show no sympathy bump for the King and nearly everyone wants Mueller’s report out. The majority want the corruption reigned in and any dem will incorporate this in their campaign. Only the minority are being duped. 
    I don't know which poll you are speaking of, but a Fox poll and a CNN one showed essentially the same thing.  People's perception of Trump will not change regardless of the final outcome of the special counsel, are locked in.  There are very few people swayed by the result.  Other factors will affect 2020, but not this.  
    We don’t have the result yet and most people know this. 
    Doesn't matter, in my opinion.  I don't think it will move his approval much either way.   His floor and ceiling are pretty compressed, that's why no matter what he does, his numbers float within 2-3 points all the time.  They may bump up or down for a few days, but they move back to the mean.  There are few people with flexible opinions of Trump.  
  • Options
    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,982
    What’s the healcare program that the Baffoon will implement anyone know maybe BS knows ..
    It doesn't matter what healthcare program he implements, whether its Obamacare or whatever...it will remain substandard to most of us with common sense...and yes Obamacare is substandard healthcare.
    Substandard health insurance is still better than no health insurance. Substandard healthcare exists whether you have insurance or not.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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    Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    What’s the healcare program that the Baffoon will implement anyone know maybe BS knows ..
    It doesn't matter what healthcare program he implements, whether its Obamacare or whatever...it will remain substandard to most of us with common sense...and yes Obamacare is substandard healthcare.
    20 plus million folks depend on it yes it’s not perfect and it needs tweaking , so what do you suggest just get rid of it and leave 20 million folks with no insurance..
    I suggest you demand universal healthcare.  I am in Canada, here is how it works...if sick, just show health card to whoever you need treatment from...no money exchanges hands, and my doctor is free to order any test HE feels necessary and does not have to consult the government (who provides the service) to make sure he gets paid.  All test are covered the same way.  That's the way it should be.  Is it perfect, hell no, it can be improved...but no one is left without healthcare.   I was born into this country with universal healthcare, my parents remember a time without universal healthcare...needless to say, they prefer this system.  I had kidney stones a few years back and needed a surgical procedure, went to the hospital, signed a few papers, had the procedure, spent the night in the hospital, next day nurse made me piss until there was no blood in urine and sent me home.  Did not cost me more than a signature...of course, tax dollars pay for it.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Options
    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,457
    What’s the healcare program that the Baffoon will implement anyone know maybe BS knows ..
    It doesn't matter what healthcare program he implements, whether its Obamacare or whatever...it will remain substandard to most of us with common sense...and yes Obamacare is substandard healthcare.
    20 plus million folks depend on it yes it’s not perfect and it needs tweaking , so what do you suggest just get rid of it and leave 20 million folks with no insurance..
    I suggest you demand universal healthcare.  I am in Canada, here is how it works...if sick, just show health card to whoever you need treatment from...no money exchanges hands, and my doctor is free to order any test HE feels necessary and does not have to consult the government (who provides the service) to make sure he gets paid.  All test are covered the same way.  That's the way it should be.  Is it perfect, hell no, it can be improved...but no one is left without healthcare.   I was born into this country with universal healthcare, my parents remember a time without universal healthcare...needless to say, they prefer this system.  I had kidney stones a few years back and needed a surgical procedure, went to the hospital, signed a few papers, had the procedure, spent the night in the hospital, next day nurse made me piss until there was no blood in urine and sent me home.  Did not cost me more than a signature...of course, tax dollars pay for it.
    Yes but but this president & GOP don’t want universal health care they want people to just fend for themselves ! Or bluntly put they want folks to die or fuck off ..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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    dignindignin Posts: 9,304

    Fox News' Judge Napolitano: 'There Is Something There' on Conspiracy in Mueller Report



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=p_XY62Pws-Y
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,982
    dignin said:

    Fox News' Judge Napolitano: 'There Is Something There' on Conspiracy in Mueller Report



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=p_XY62Pws-Y
    Of course there is. Otherwise we wouldn’t be hearing from Grandstandy Randy. And Team Trump Treason would be handing out Team Mueller Reports like candy.
     
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • Options
    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,811
    What’s the healcare program that the Baffoon will implement anyone know maybe BS knows ..
    It doesn't matter what healthcare program he implements, whether its Obamacare or whatever...it will remain substandard to most of us with common sense...and yes Obamacare is substandard healthcare.
    20 plus million folks depend on it yes it’s not perfect and it needs tweaking , so what do you suggest just get rid of it and leave 20 million folks with no insurance..
    I suggest you demand universal healthcare.  I am in Canada, here is how it works...if sick, just show health card to whoever you need treatment from...no money exchanges hands, and my doctor is free to order any test HE feels necessary and does not have to consult the government (who provides the service) to make sure he gets paid.  All test are covered the same way.  That's the way it should be.  Is it perfect, hell no, it can be improved...but no one is left without healthcare.   I was born into this country with universal healthcare, my parents remember a time without universal healthcare...needless to say, they prefer this system.  I had kidney stones a few years back and needed a surgical procedure, went to the hospital, signed a few papers, had the procedure, spent the night in the hospital, next day nurse made me piss until there was no blood in urine and sent me home.  Did not cost me more than a signature...of course, tax dollars pay for it.
    Yes but but this president & GOP don’t want universal health care they want people to just fend for themselves ! Or bluntly put they want folks to die or fuck off ..
    To be fair, he only wants immigrants to die.  He would like citizens to fuck off.  Please give proper humanitarian credit where appropriate.  
  • Options
    my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    mrussel1 said:
    What’s the healcare program that the Baffoon will implement anyone know maybe BS knows ..
    It doesn't matter what healthcare program he implements, whether its Obamacare or whatever...it will remain substandard to most of us with common sense...and yes Obamacare is substandard healthcare.
    20 plus million folks depend on it yes it’s not perfect and it needs tweaking , so what do you suggest just get rid of it and leave 20 million folks with no insurance..
    I suggest you demand universal healthcare.  I am in Canada, here is how it works...if sick, just show health card to whoever you need treatment from...no money exchanges hands, and my doctor is free to order any test HE feels necessary and does not have to consult the government (who provides the service) to make sure he gets paid.  All test are covered the same way.  That's the way it should be.  Is it perfect, hell no, it can be improved...but no one is left without healthcare.   I was born into this country with universal healthcare, my parents remember a time without universal healthcare...needless to say, they prefer this system.  I had kidney stones a few years back and needed a surgical procedure, went to the hospital, signed a few papers, had the procedure, spent the night in the hospital, next day nurse made me piss until there was no blood in urine and sent me home.  Did not cost me more than a signature...of course, tax dollars pay for it.
    Yes but but this president & GOP don’t want universal health care they want people to just fend for themselves ! Or bluntly put they want folks to die or fuck off ..
    To be fair, he only wants immigrants to die.  He would like citizens to fuck off.  Please give proper humanitarian credit where appropriate.  
    Except his wife of course.... well, shit, you never know? Lol
  • Options
    benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,003
    benjs said:

    House vote to stop Trump's border plan unlikely to succeed


    https://apple.news/AHR4unoRIRBK8OlJ0kNvyMg

    Hell yeah-  saw that the pentagon released 1 billion and they’re building 57 miles of it near Yuma and El Paso.  Good stuff.  The media was focused on the mueller waste of time but 5000 illegal immigrants were stopped this past weekend alone. It’s out of control.  In San Antonio ice just drops off these people at these bus stops after they’ve been detained near churches and they can’t feed or clothe them because they’re out of supplies and overflowing with people.  The diseases are worrisome as very few of them are vaccinated at all.
    Don't forget that the number of undocumented immigrants that ICE detains doesn't correlate with the number of undocumented immigrants coming into the US at any given time - it only correlates with the amount of energy they've been instructed to spend to detain persons. If Trump had said "ease back a bit", they'd have picked up less than 5000. What you're seeing does not mean a problem is getting worse - it means your President is tolerating less.



    Like I said, morally, if Trump wants to do this, he can, but he should know that he will own the costs and not just the benefits he perceives of this. You should know the costs too - and you should be concerned (whether you want this or not) that Trump doesn't want to talk about them.
    You know, I (and many others) have been beating this drum for the longest time that wall proponents simply don't get: the effect this will have on the economy as a whole and their own wallets, specifically. 

    -illegal immigrants are working in fields and construction sites for pennies on the dollar
    -americans make more than those wages on welfare

    They are not taking your jobs. americans are giving them to them. 
    costs will inevitably increase substantially, and then all the wall bangers will be pissing and moaning about paying $3 an apple and thousands more for renos on their house. 

    these issues don't matter to the people on the Hill. they can afford these increases. they are using your own fear and racist tendencies against what's actually best for you. 
    You guys are both correct, I’m sure.  I am for obeying the law, though, and illegal is illegal.  If they go through the system then I have no problem with it at all.  It’s not the people I have a problem with, it’s the fact that it’s not lawful.  I’ve said it before, but even my employees who are from Mexico (some on visas and some are citizens) are against it because they did it lawfully.  They don’t like the fact that  some get to break the rules while they followed them.  It has nothing to do with race for me, I don’t care if they’re from Sweden or Russia or China or Mars, we just don’t have a problemhappening on any of our other borders, just the one with Mexico.

    as for the economics, I defer to the pros on that- I’m not bothered if I have to spend more money because we enforce our laws.  That’s the way it is and we’ll change our spending habits to adapt.  Here in austin the construction guys are creating chaos because the city is growing so big- so
    many undocumented guys are just leaving one site for another that will pay more in cash per day (in the middle of their shift no less,) that it’s delaying construction projects by months in some cases.  You’re right, they’re the ones who want those jobs.  I think if they were legal they’d still want those jobs though, so I’m not sure I fully get the argument that there would be no one to
    fill certain jobs.  There would be, they’d just be legal

    just don’t get why following laws makes people so uncomfortable 
    We absolutely have a problem on the "other borders".
    Tens of thousands of people come in via airports all over the country every day and overstay their visas by years and decades. But the right doesn't care  about them for 2 main reasons....
    1. They tend to be caucasian
    2. The right (politicians and right  wing media)is stoking fears about the southern border.

    And just to be clear....as a leftist socialist liberal Democrat I want people to follow the rule of law and do things legally and safely. I, and most like me do not want, and have never called for, open borders.

    There is no more "southern border invasion " now then there was 5 or 10 or 25 years ago.
    Just people trying to stoke fear and garner votes.
    Just wanted to post this because we absolutely DO have a serious crisis at our southern border, whether it’s your political leanings that make you deny it or not.  This is frightening shit:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/national/us-has-hit-breaking-point-at-border-amid-immigration-surge-customs-and-border-protection-commissioner-says/2019/03/27/d2014068-5093-11e9-af35-1fb9615010d7_story.html

    From the article “McAleenan’s statements reflect the growing desperation among Homeland Security officials faced with a border influx that is on pace to be the largest in more than a decade, led by Guatemalan and Honduran asylum seekers who arrive with children and surrender to U.S. agents. McAleenan said his agency currently has more than 13,000 migrants in its custody.”

    Frightening? Unless you buy that undocumented immigrants are here to bring bad will with them (which seems rather stupid if you're asking for favourable treatment in a foreign country - at which point it's in your best interest to be on best behaviours), I see nothing frightening about this. 

    Once again, an increase in apprehensions does not confirm or deny an increase in attempted crossings. An increase in apprehensions is exactly what you would expect when the POTUS controls the resourcing for DHS, and has ramped up his efforts. When Obama ramped his efforts up and was responsible for an increase in border apprehensions, he gained the title Deporter in Chief. When Trump does it, we fear drug imports. 

    You believe what you want, but until we're all (or even mostly) willing to look critically at statements made by politicians regardless of position, misinformation campaigns and division will grow. A democracy relies on factual facts and a population who can on average see the truths in situations. Your country has neither, and it risks your future.
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    EV
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  • Options
    my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    edited March 2019
    It's going to be amazing when this thing comes out... freaks like us are gonna study all 300 fucking pages lol
  • Options
    jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    my2hands said:
    mrussel1 said:
    What’s the healcare program that the Baffoon will implement anyone know maybe BS knows ..
    It doesn't matter what healthcare program he implements, whether its Obamacare or whatever...it will remain substandard to most of us with common sense...and yes Obamacare is substandard healthcare.
    20 plus million folks depend on it yes it’s not perfect and it needs tweaking , so what do you suggest just get rid of it and leave 20 million folks with no insurance..
    I suggest you demand universal healthcare.  I am in Canada, here is how it works...if sick, just show health card to whoever you need treatment from...no money exchanges hands, and my doctor is free to order any test HE feels necessary and does not have to consult the government (who provides the service) to make sure he gets paid.  All test are covered the same way.  That's the way it should be.  Is it perfect, hell no, it can be improved...but no one is left without healthcare.   I was born into this country with universal healthcare, my parents remember a time without universal healthcare...needless to say, they prefer this system.  I had kidney stones a few years back and needed a surgical procedure, went to the hospital, signed a few papers, had the procedure, spent the night in the hospital, next day nurse made me piss until there was no blood in urine and sent me home.  Did not cost me more than a signature...of course, tax dollars pay for it.
    Yes but but this president & GOP don’t want universal health care they want people to just fend for themselves ! Or bluntly put they want folks to die or fuck off ..
    To be fair, he only wants immigrants to die.  He would like citizens to fuck off.  Please give proper humanitarian credit where appropriate.  
    Except his wife of course.... well, shit, you never know? Lol
    Well, he was off fucking porn stars bareback while she was birthing Baron, so I don't think he cares a whole lot about her.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Options
    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,093
    jeffbr said:
    my2hands said:
    mrussel1 said:
    What’s the healcare program that the Baffoon will implement anyone know maybe BS knows ..
    It doesn't matter what healthcare program he implements, whether its Obamacare or whatever...it will remain substandard to most of us with common sense...and yes Obamacare is substandard healthcare.
    20 plus million folks depend on it yes it’s not perfect and it needs tweaking , so what do you suggest just get rid of it and leave 20 million folks with no insurance..
    I suggest you demand universal healthcare.  I am in Canada, here is how it works...if sick, just show health card to whoever you need treatment from...no money exchanges hands, and my doctor is free to order any test HE feels necessary and does not have to consult the government (who provides the service) to make sure he gets paid.  All test are covered the same way.  That's the way it should be.  Is it perfect, hell no, it can be improved...but no one is left without healthcare.   I was born into this country with universal healthcare, my parents remember a time without universal healthcare...needless to say, they prefer this system.  I had kidney stones a few years back and needed a surgical procedure, went to the hospital, signed a few papers, had the procedure, spent the night in the hospital, next day nurse made me piss until there was no blood in urine and sent me home.  Did not cost me more than a signature...of course, tax dollars pay for it.
    Yes but but this president & GOP don’t want universal health care they want people to just fend for themselves ! Or bluntly put they want folks to die or fuck off ..
    To be fair, he only wants immigrants to die.  He would like citizens to fuck off.  Please give proper humanitarian credit where appropriate.  
    Except his wife of course.... well, shit, you never know? Lol
    Well, he was off fucking porn stars bareback while she was birthing Baron, so I don't think he cares a whole lot about her.
    Baron. that kid is going to be right fucked up. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Options
    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,982
    I read the Starr Report. Still have a paperback version somewhere. I’ll read the Team Mueller report too. The real head cases will compare and contrast the two, vastly different exercises in justice.
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  • Options
    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,752
    edited March 2019
    jeffbr said:
    my2hands said:
    mrussel1 said:
    What’s the healcare program that the Baffoon will implement anyone know maybe BS knows ..
    It doesn't matter what healthcare program he implements, whether its Obamacare or whatever...it will remain substandard to most of us with common sense...and yes Obamacare is substandard healthcare.
    20 plus million folks depend on it yes it’s not perfect and it needs tweaking , so what do you suggest just get rid of it and leave 20 million folks with no insurance..
    I suggest you demand universal healthcare.  I am in Canada, here is how it works...if sick, just show health card to whoever you need treatment from...no money exchanges hands, and my doctor is free to order any test HE feels necessary and does not have to consult the government (who provides the service) to make sure he gets paid.  All test are covered the same way.  That's the way it should be.  Is it perfect, hell no, it can be improved...but no one is left without healthcare.   I was born into this country with universal healthcare, my parents remember a time without universal healthcare...needless to say, they prefer this system.  I had kidney stones a few years back and needed a surgical procedure, went to the hospital, signed a few papers, had the procedure, spent the night in the hospital, next day nurse made me piss until there was no blood in urine and sent me home.  Did not cost me more than a signature...of course, tax dollars pay for it.
    Yes but but this president & GOP don’t want universal health care they want people to just fend for themselves ! Or bluntly put they want folks to die or fuck off ..
    To be fair, he only wants immigrants to die.  He would like citizens to fuck off.  Please give proper humanitarian credit where appropriate.  
    Except his wife of course.... well, shit, you never know? Lol
    Well, he was off fucking porn stars bareback while she was birthing Baron, so I don't think he cares a whole lot about her.
    Baron. that kid is going to be right fucked up. 
    From the look on his face any time he's seen in public, I would suggest that he already is.

    And yeah, I'm sure Trump wouldn't at all mind if his wife was dead - he would feel that's a lot easier and cheaper than another divorce... and if she doesn't file for divorce the second he's out of office, then she's even weirder than I thought.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Options
    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,093
    PJ_Soul said:
    jeffbr said:
    my2hands said:
    mrussel1 said:
    What’s the healcare program that the Baffoon will implement anyone know maybe BS knows ..
    It doesn't matter what healthcare program he implements, whether its Obamacare or whatever...it will remain substandard to most of us with common sense...and yes Obamacare is substandard healthcare.
    20 plus million folks depend on it yes it’s not perfect and it needs tweaking , so what do you suggest just get rid of it and leave 20 million folks with no insurance..
    I suggest you demand universal healthcare.  I am in Canada, here is how it works...if sick, just show health card to whoever you need treatment from...no money exchanges hands, and my doctor is free to order any test HE feels necessary and does not have to consult the government (who provides the service) to make sure he gets paid.  All test are covered the same way.  That's the way it should be.  Is it perfect, hell no, it can be improved...but no one is left without healthcare.   I was born into this country with universal healthcare, my parents remember a time without universal healthcare...needless to say, they prefer this system.  I had kidney stones a few years back and needed a surgical procedure, went to the hospital, signed a few papers, had the procedure, spent the night in the hospital, next day nurse made me piss until there was no blood in urine and sent me home.  Did not cost me more than a signature...of course, tax dollars pay for it.
    Yes but but this president & GOP don’t want universal health care they want people to just fend for themselves ! Or bluntly put they want folks to die or fuck off ..
    To be fair, he only wants immigrants to die.  He would like citizens to fuck off.  Please give proper humanitarian credit where appropriate.  
    Except his wife of course.... well, shit, you never know? Lol
    Well, he was off fucking porn stars bareback while she was birthing Baron, so I don't think he cares a whole lot about her.
    Baron. that kid is going to be right fucked up. 
    From the look on his face any time he's seen in public, I would suggest that he already is.

    And yeah, I'm sure Trump wouldn't at all mind if his wife was dead - he would feel that's a lot easier and cheaper than another divorce... and if she doesn't file for divorce the second he's out of office, then she's even weirder than I thought.
    absolutely it's all about finances for him. 

    she might not want the spectacle of a presidential divorce. there's most likely a reason very few (any?) presidential couples have gotten divorced over the years. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Options
    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,839
    PJ_Soul said:
    jeffbr said:
    my2hands said:
    mrussel1 said:
    What’s the healcare program that the Baffoon will implement anyone know maybe BS knows ..
    It doesn't matter what healthcare program he implements, whether its Obamacare or whatever...it will remain substandard to most of us with common sense...and yes Obamacare is substandard healthcare.
    20 plus million folks depend on it yes it’s not perfect and it needs tweaking , so what do you suggest just get rid of it and leave 20 million folks with no insurance..
    I suggest you demand universal healthcare.  I am in Canada, here is how it works...if sick, just show health card to whoever you need treatment from...no money exchanges hands, and my doctor is free to order any test HE feels necessary and does not have to consult the government (who provides the service) to make sure he gets paid.  All test are covered the same way.  That's the way it should be.  Is it perfect, hell no, it can be improved...but no one is left without healthcare.   I was born into this country with universal healthcare, my parents remember a time without universal healthcare...needless to say, they prefer this system.  I had kidney stones a few years back and needed a surgical procedure, went to the hospital, signed a few papers, had the procedure, spent the night in the hospital, next day nurse made me piss until there was no blood in urine and sent me home.  Did not cost me more than a signature...of course, tax dollars pay for it.
    Yes but but this president & GOP don’t want universal health care they want people to just fend for themselves ! Or bluntly put they want folks to die or fuck off ..
    To be fair, he only wants immigrants to die.  He would like citizens to fuck off.  Please give proper humanitarian credit where appropriate.  
    Except his wife of course.... well, shit, you never know? Lol
    Well, he was off fucking porn stars bareback while she was birthing Baron, so I don't think he cares a whole lot about her.
    Baron. that kid is going to be right fucked up. 
    From the look on his face any time he's seen in public, I would suggest that he already is.

    And yeah, I'm sure Trump wouldn't at all mind if his wife was dead - he would feel that's a lot easier and cheaper than another divorce... and if she doesn't file for divorce the second he's out of office, then she's even weirder than I thought.
    And if it was timed right, he'd get some sympathy vote in 2000.
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  • Options
    njnancynjnancy Northern New Jersey Posts: 5,096
    OnWis97 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    jeffbr said:
    my2hands said:
    mrussel1 said:
    What’s the healcare program that the Baffoon will implement anyone know maybe BS knows ..
    It doesn't matter what healthcare program he implements, whether its Obamacare or whatever...it will remain substandard to most of us with common sense...and yes Obamacare is substandard healthcare.
    20 plus million folks depend on it yes it’s not perfect and it needs tweaking , so what do you suggest just get rid of it and leave 20 million folks with no insurance..
    I suggest you demand universal healthcare.  I am in Canada, here is how it works...if sick, just show health card to whoever you need treatment from...no money exchanges hands, and my doctor is free to order any test HE feels necessary and does not have to consult the government (who provides the service) to make sure he gets paid.  All test are covered the same way.  That's the way it should be.  Is it perfect, hell no, it can be improved...but no one is left without healthcare.   I was born into this country with universal healthcare, my parents remember a time without universal healthcare...needless to say, they prefer this system.  I had kidney stones a few years back and needed a surgical procedure, went to the hospital, signed a few papers, had the procedure, spent the night in the hospital, next day nurse made me piss until there was no blood in urine and sent me home.  Did not cost me more than a signature...of course, tax dollars pay for it.
    Yes but but this president & GOP don’t want universal health care they want people to just fend for themselves ! Or bluntly put they want folks to die or fuck off ..
    To be fair, he only wants immigrants to die.  He would like citizens to fuck off.  Please give proper humanitarian credit where appropriate.  
    Except his wife of course.... well, shit, you never know? Lol
    Well, he was off fucking porn stars bareback while she was birthing Baron, so I don't think he cares a whole lot about her.
    Baron. that kid is going to be right fucked up. 
    From the look on his face any time he's seen in public, I would suggest that he already is.

    And yeah, I'm sure Trump wouldn't at all mind if his wife was dead - he would feel that's a lot easier and cheaper than another divorce... and if she doesn't file for divorce the second he's out of office, then she's even weirder than I thought.
    And if it was timed right, he'd get some sympathy vote in 2000.
    She won't divorce him - they undoubtedly have a solid pre-nup (and NDA's of all sorts). 

    She'll raise her kid, sleep in her own suite and wait for him to kick the bucket.  She'd gain more $$ & property as the grieving widow, even after Ivanka gets her chunk.

     Sounds harsh, but she didn't marry him for his looks or charm. And she made sure she got pregnant cause that sealed the marriage  deal. Also citizenship for her family - you know - chain migration. 


This discussion has been closed.