It's late for this, but I'm going to offer it anyways:
People can say what they want, but I respect @BS44325 for his efforts expressing where he is at in this entire affair. He's far from a 'troll' and in my opinion offers a level of credibility to the 'other' side.
I'm not saying I agree with him entirely- I don't. But his contributions are infinitely greater than 'woot' and 'MAGA' and 'lock her up'... and if I'm being honest... I pause for thought when reading his submissions.
Yeah, I can appreciate it to an extent, but it's clear there is some trolling going on to. Most recently the "MAGA bitches" comment. There is a lot of pompous know-it-all in there even though it's a lot of speculation and mainly just meant to annoy the status quo in here who despise a gelatinous blob as president.
Not to mention the easily dispelled BS that he posts. But one example as he repeated the Faux News talking point regarding the Steele Dossier. I guess now Senator Graham is a liar?:
Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) said Monday he had told Sen. John McCain to give the FBI the dossier on the Trump campaign’s alleged ties to Russia, a revelation that comes after Trump repeatedly assailed the late Arizona Republican over the issue.
Last week, Trump accused McCain of handing over the document “for very evil purposes.” McCain died of brain cancer in August.
Graham, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters Monday McCain showed him the dossier when he received it in late 2016.
“And I told him the only thing I knew to do with it, it could be a bunch of garbage, it could be true, who knows? Turn it over to somebody whose job it is to find these things out, and John McCain acted appropriately,” Graham said, according to CNN.
“He & the Dems, working together, failed (as usual). Even the Fake News refused this garbage!” Trump said in the tweet.
McCain was not made aware of the Steele dossier until Nov. 18, 2016 — after Trump had won the election. And while McCain himself gave the dossier to the FBI, there is no evidence he gave it to the media.
Former McCain aide David Kramer, a Russia expert, has testified that he gave the dossier to the media in December 2016.
Now it’s onto dismantling Obamacare fuck the pre existing conditions after all the BS he spewed on how he wants everyone to keep their insurance, now it’s let’s get rid of Obamacare all together ..
Now it’s onto dismantling Obamacare fuck the pre existing conditions after all the BS he spewed on how he wants everyone to keep their insurance, now it’s let’s get rid of Obamacare all together ..
I don’t understand the anger by many after finding out we don’t have a Russian operative in the White House. I understand not liking the guy or disagreeing with his politics, but I’ll opt for the outcome we received over the alternative. Imagine if we found out that our current system truly allowed a Russian spy to infiltrate the highest office in America.
But this hasn't changed the fact that Trump sides with Russia before he does his own intelligence agencies. So how do you figure there isn't a figurative "Russian operative" in the WH? And nobody has even read the report. What I don't understand is why people think questions have been answered at this point, and that somehow now there is nothing to worry about with Trump. NO questions have actually be answered yet, and obviously there is a LOT to worry about with Trump. Whatever "anger" there is is coming from the fact that so many are acting like Trump is exonerated from all wrong-doing, which is obviously laughable as well as infuriating. Especially since the GOP is so SMUG about their ridiculous and dangerous conclusion. Yes, DANGEROUS. The anger isn't at all about "wanting" Trump to have colluded and obstructed justice. I think it's from the fact that most people know that Trump is guilty AF of a lot of things, including those two things in one way or another, even though he can't be indicted for them, and now it's starting to feel like he's just going to fucking get away with it all. But worse, it seems like those who know Trump is a fucking criminal are now being accused of being full of shit. It's all being turned around by the bad guys and it's very Orwellian in nature.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Hell yeah- saw that the pentagon released 1 billion and they’re building 57 miles of it near Yuma and El Paso. Good stuff. The media was focused on the mueller waste of time but 5000 illegal immigrants were stopped this past weekend alone. It’s out of control. In San Antonio ice just drops off these people at these bus stops after they’ve been detained near churches and they can’t feed or clothe them because they’re out of supplies and overflowing with people. The diseases are worrisome as very few of them are vaccinated at all.
Don't forget that the number of undocumented immigrants that ICE detains doesn't correlate with the number of undocumented immigrants coming into the US at any given time - it only correlates with the amount of energy they've been instructed to spend to detain persons. If Trump had said "ease back a bit", they'd have picked up less than 5000. What you're seeing does not mean a problem is getting worse - it means your President is tolerating less.
I'm not opposed to building the wall from a moral perspective - a country truly is entitled to fortify its borders if it chooses - but I find it short-sighted, and unnecessary (along with the things that come with it - the perceived cruelty, the real divide, the logistical challenges with a major trade partner, the increase in processing needs per border crossing and thus potential for bottleneck, and the cost of the thing, for no truly indicated or expected results).
I also think from a purely economic perspective, it's been understood for some time now that the jobs occupied by undocumented immigrants have effectively established a new market value for that labour, because they take the work that US citizens never wanted, and do it at a price US citizens deem beneath them. This means that if that influx disappears, businesses have to bear a newly increased cost for the labour. Businesses don't typically accept increased costs for labour - instead, they hire less, ask more of current employees, and have clients subsidize these realities with increased prices.
Putting all of these together, I think it's likely that the lasting legacy of a wall will be exploitation of the Mexican government (just like applying sanctions, it's another great way to restrict a country's global power while exerting your own, and gain trade negotiating leverage), the de-weaving of the social fabric with respect to US-Mexican cultural exchanges, security risks (when you threaten an entire neighbouring country's livelihood and escape route to safety, you should expect this), a less powerful internal economy where businesses act more frugally (as discussed above), a more expensive life with respect to consumer products, busier borders making trade more difficult.
Like I said, morally, if Trump wants to do this, he can, but he should know that he will own the costs and not just the benefits he perceives of this. You should know the costs too - and you should be concerned (whether you want this or not) that Trump doesn't want to talk about them.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
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Hell yeah- saw that the pentagon released 1 billion and they’re building 57 miles of it near Yuma and El Paso. Good stuff. The media was focused on the mueller waste of time but 5000 illegal immigrants were stopped this past weekend alone. It’s out of control. In San Antonio ice just drops off these people at these bus stops after they’ve been detained near churches and they can’t feed or clothe them because they’re out of supplies and overflowing with people. The diseases are worrisome as very few of them are vaccinated at all.
Don't forget that the number of undocumented immigrants that ICE detains doesn't correlate with the number of undocumented immigrants coming into the US at any given time - it only correlates with the amount of energy they've been instructed to spend to detain persons. If Trump had said "ease back a bit", they'd have picked up less than 5000. What you're seeing does not mean a problem is getting worse - it means your President is tolerating less.
I'm not opposed to building the wall from a moral perspective - a country truly is entitled to fortify its borders if it chooses - but I find it short-sighted, and unnecessary (along with the things that come with it - the perceived cruelty, the real divide, the logistical challenges with a major trade partner, the increase in processing needs per border crossing and thus potential for bottleneck, and the cost of the thing, for no truly indicated or expected results).
I also think from a purely economic perspective, it's been understood for some time now that the jobs occupied by undocumented immigrants have effectively established a new market value for that labour, because they take the work that US citizens never wanted, and do it at a price US citizens deem beneath them. This means that if that influx disappears, businesses have to bear a newly increased cost for the labour. Businesses don't typically accept increased costs for labour - instead, they hire less, ask more of current employees, and have clients subsidize these realities with increased prices.
Putting all of these together, I think it's likely that the lasting legacy of a wall will be exploitation of the Mexican government (just like applying sanctions, it's another great way to restrict a country's global power while exerting your own, and gain trade negotiating leverage), the de-weaving of the social fabric with respect to US-Mexican cultural exchanges, security risks (when you threaten an entire neighbouring country's livelihood and escape route to safety, you should expect this), a less powerful internal economy where businesses act more frugally (as discussed above), a more expensive life with respect to consumer products, busier borders making trade more difficult.
Like I said, morally, if Trump wants to do this, he can, but he should know that he will own the costs and not just the benefits he perceives of this. You should know the costs too - and you should be concerned (whether you want this or not) that Trump doesn't want to talk about them.
You know, I (and many others) have been beating this drum for the longest time that wall proponents simply don't get: the effect this will have on the economy as a whole and their own wallets, specifically.
-illegal immigrants are working in fields and construction sites for pennies on the dollar -americans make more than those wages on welfare
They are not taking your jobs. americans are giving them to them. costs will inevitably increase substantially, and then all the wall bangers will be pissing and moaning about paying $3 an apple and thousands more for renos on their house.
these issues don't matter to the people on the Hill. they can afford these increases. they are using your own fear and racist tendencies against what's actually best for you.
It's late for this, but I'm going to offer it anyways:
People can say what they want, but I respect @BS44325 for his efforts expressing where he is at in this entire affair. He's far from a 'troll' and in my opinion offers a level of credibility to the 'other' side.
I'm not saying I agree with him entirely- I don't. But his contributions are infinitely greater than 'woot' and 'MAGA' and 'lock her up'... and if I'm being honest... I pause for thought when reading his submissions.
It's late for this, but I'm going to offer it anyways:
People can say what they want, but I respect @BS44325 for his efforts expressing where he is at in this entire affair. He's far from a 'troll' and in my opinion offers a level of credibility to the 'other' side.
I'm not saying I agree with him entirely- I don't. But his contributions are infinitely greater than 'woot' and 'MAGA' and 'lock her up'... and if I'm being honest... I pause for thought when reading his submissions.
Yeah, I can appreciate it to an extent, but it's clear there is some trolling going on to. Most recently the "MAGA bitches" comment. There is a lot of pompous know-it-all in there even though it's a lot of speculation and mainly just meant to annoy the status quo in here who despise a gelatinous blob as president.
It's late for this, but I'm going to offer it anyways:
People can say what they want, but I respect @BS44325 for his efforts expressing where he is at in this entire affair. He's far from a 'troll' and in my opinion offers a level of credibility to the 'other' side.
I'm not saying I agree with him entirely- I don't. But his contributions are infinitely greater than 'woot' and 'MAGA' and 'lock her up'... and if I'm being honest... I pause for thought when reading his submissions.
Yeah, I can appreciate it to an extent, but it's clear there is some trolling going on to. Most recently the "MAGA bitches" comment. There is a lot of pompous know-it-all in there even though it's a lot of speculation and mainly just meant to annoy the status quo in here who despise a gelatinous blob as president.
Not to mention the easily dispelled BS that he posts. But one example as he repeated the Faux News talking point regarding the Steele Dossier. I guess now Senator Graham is a liar?:
Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) said Monday he had told Sen. John McCain to give the FBI the dossier on the Trump campaign’s alleged ties to Russia, a revelation that comes after Trump repeatedly assailed the late Arizona Republican over the issue.
Last week, Trump accused McCain of handing over the document “for very evil purposes.” McCain died of brain cancer in August.
Graham, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters Monday McCain showed him the dossier when he received it in late 2016.
“And I told him the only thing I knew to do with it, it could be a bunch of garbage, it could be true, who knows? Turn it over to somebody whose job it is to find these things out, and John McCain acted appropriately,” Graham said, according to CNN.
“He & the Dems, working together, failed (as usual). Even the Fake News refused this garbage!” Trump said in the tweet.
McCain was not made aware of the Steele dossier until Nov. 18, 2016 — after Trump had won the election. And while McCain himself gave the dossier to the FBI, there is no evidence he gave it to the media.
Former McCain aide David Kramer, a Russia expert, has testified that he gave the dossier to the media in December 2016.
I actually think this is an important angle to pick apart. McCain's and Kramer's hands were on it. Kramer seems to have done more active disseminating then McCain but this all needs to be drilled down on. Remember at this point the dossier was not new. The FBI had it months before but now it was being passed to media through Kramer and FBI again through McCain. Did they innocently have it handed to them and just did what they thought was right or were they participating in something else. This was recycled intelligence made to appear as corroborating intelligence from a non-partisan source. This story will be told. McCain's obvious war hero status is not a reason to look away. You all felt that way in the run up to 2008.
He hardly has a mandate to start in on the ACA. He was BARELY not indicted. Hooray! What a patriot.
I personally see it much different. He was hated because he said vulgar ridiculous stuff and later won against a corrupt political party who cheated their own supporters in primaries and continued to do so by lying to get a warrant to spy on his campaign. After 2 whole years of an exhaustive investigation which included the media spreading falsities every day, he somehow survived. Teflon Don I suppose, but I’m not sure anyone else would have made it. I would have given up a long time ago. Well, I wouldn’t be elected nor would I run anyway so whatevs
He hardly has a mandate to start in on the ACA. He was BARELY not indicted. Hooray! What a patriot.
I personally see it much different. He was hated because he said vulgar ridiculous stuff and later won against a corrupt political party who cheated their own supporters in primaries and continued to do so by lying to get a warrant to spy on his campaign. After 2 whole years of an exhaustive investigation which included the media spreading falsities every day, he somehow survived. Teflon Don I suppose, but I’m not sure anyone else would have made it. I would have given up a long time ago. Well, I wouldn’t be elected nor would I run anyway so whatevs
Nobody else could have survived this. The GOP primary voter understood the new landscape and picked a fighter warts and all.
He hardly has a mandate to start in on the ACA. He was BARELY not indicted. Hooray! What a patriot.
I personally see it much different. He was hated because he said vulgar ridiculous stuff and later won against a corrupt political party who cheated their own supporters in primaries and continued to do so by lying to get a warrant to spy on his campaign. After 2 whole years of an exhaustive investigation which included the media spreading falsities every day, he somehow survived. Teflon Don I suppose, but I’m not sure anyone else would have made it. I would have given up a long time ago. Well, I wouldn’t be elected nor would I run anyway so whatevs
He hardly has a mandate to start in on the ACA. He was BARELY not indicted. Hooray! What a patriot.
I personally see it much different. He was hated because he said vulgar ridiculous stuff and later won against a corrupt political party who cheated their own supporters in primaries and continued to do so by lying to get a warrant to spy on his campaign. After 2 whole years of an exhaustive investigation which included the media spreading falsities every day, he somehow survived. Teflon Don I suppose, but I’m not sure anyone else would have made it. I would have given up a long time ago. Well, I wouldn’t be elected nor would I run anyway so whatevs
Nobody else could have survived this. The GOP primary voter understood the new landscape and picked a fighter warts and all.
nobody else could have survived this? seriously? he's the biggest snowflake of them all that did nothing but pander to the lowest common denominator. he's not a fighter. he's a whiny little bitch that can't understand why everyone hates him.
He hardly has a mandate to start in on the ACA. He was BARELY not indicted. Hooray! What a patriot.
I personally see it much different. He was hated because he said vulgar ridiculous stuff and later won against a corrupt political party who cheated their own supporters in primaries and continued to do so by lying to get a warrant to spy on his campaign. After 2 whole years of an exhaustive investigation which included the media spreading falsities every day, he somehow survived. Teflon Don I suppose, but I’m not sure anyone else would have made it. I would have given up a long time ago. Well, I wouldn’t be elected nor would I run anyway so whatevs
Nobody else could have survived this. The GOP primary voter understood the new landscape and picked a fighter warts and all.
You are giving Hannity watchers way too much credit.
He hardly has a mandate to start in on the ACA. He was BARELY not indicted. Hooray! What a patriot.
I personally see it much different. He was hated because he said vulgar ridiculous stuff and later won against a corrupt political party who cheated their own supporters in primaries and continued to do so by lying to get a warrant to spy on his campaign. After 2 whole years of an exhaustive investigation which included the media spreading falsities every day, he somehow survived. Teflon Don I suppose, but I’m not sure anyone else would have made it. I would have given up a long time ago. Well, I wouldn’t be elected nor would I run anyway so whatevs
I'm a Democrat. How was I cheated? Explain to me how Hillary cheated Bernie.
He hardly has a mandate to start in on the ACA. He was BARELY not indicted. Hooray! What a patriot.
I personally see it much different. He was hated because he said vulgar ridiculous stuff and later won against a corrupt political party who cheated their own supporters in primaries and continued to do so by lying to get a warrant to spy on his campaign. After 2 whole years of an exhaustive investigation which included the media spreading falsities every day, he somehow survived. Teflon Don I suppose, but I’m not sure anyone else would have made it. I would have given up a long time ago. Well, I wouldn’t be elected nor would I run anyway so whatevs
It's late for this, but I'm going to offer it anyways:
People can say what they want, but I respect @BS44325 for his efforts expressing where he is at in this entire affair. He's far from a 'troll' and in my opinion offers a level of credibility to the 'other' side.
I'm not saying I agree with him entirely- I don't. But his contributions are infinitely greater than 'woot' and 'MAGA' and 'lock her up'... and if I'm being honest... I pause for thought when reading his submissions.
Yeah, I can appreciate it to an extent, but it's clear there is some trolling going on to. Most recently the "MAGA bitches" comment. There is a lot of pompous know-it-all in there even though it's a lot of speculation and mainly just meant to annoy the status quo in here who despise a gelatinous blob as president.
Not to mention the easily dispelled BS that he posts. But one example as he repeated the Faux News talking point regarding the Steele Dossier. I guess now Senator Graham is a liar?:
Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) said Monday he had told Sen. John McCain to give the FBI the dossier on the Trump campaign’s alleged ties to Russia, a revelation that comes after Trump repeatedly assailed the late Arizona Republican over the issue.
Last week, Trump accused McCain of handing over the document “for very evil purposes.” McCain died of brain cancer in August.
Graham, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters Monday McCain showed him the dossier when he received it in late 2016.
“And I told him the only thing I knew to do with it, it could be a bunch of garbage, it could be true, who knows? Turn it over to somebody whose job it is to find these things out, and John McCain acted appropriately,” Graham said, according to CNN.
“He & the Dems, working together, failed (as usual). Even the Fake News refused this garbage!” Trump said in the tweet.
McCain was not made aware of the Steele dossier until Nov. 18, 2016 — after Trump had won the election. And while McCain himself gave the dossier to the FBI, there is no evidence he gave it to the media.
Former McCain aide David Kramer, a Russia expert, has testified that he gave the dossier to the media in December 2016.
I actually think this is an important angle to pick apart. McCain's and Kramer's hands were on it. Kramer seems to have done more active disseminating then McCain but this all needs to be drilled down on. Remember at this point the dossier was not new. The FBI had it months before but now it was being passed to media through Kramer and FBI again through McCain. Did they innocently have it handed to them and just did what they thought was right or were they participating in something else. This was recycled intelligence made to appear as corroborating intelligence from a non-partisan source. This story will be told. McCain's obvious war hero status is not a reason to look away. You all felt that way in the run up to 2008.
You mean were they participating in the coup rumor that you continue to propagate without regard to the lessons learned from Iraq?
It's late for this, but I'm going to offer it anyways:
People can say what they want, but I respect @BS44325 for his efforts expressing where he is at in this entire affair. He's far from a 'troll' and in my opinion offers a level of credibility to the 'other' side.
I'm not saying I agree with him entirely- I don't. But his contributions are infinitely greater than 'woot' and 'MAGA' and 'lock her up'... and if I'm being honest... I pause for thought when reading his submissions.
Yeah, I can appreciate it to an extent, but it's clear there is some trolling going on to. Most recently the "MAGA bitches" comment. There is a lot of pompous know-it-all in there even though it's a lot of speculation and mainly just meant to annoy the status quo in here who despise a gelatinous blob as president.
Not to mention the easily dispelled BS that he posts. But one example as he repeated the Faux News talking point regarding the Steele Dossier. I guess now Senator Graham is a liar?:
Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) said Monday he had told Sen. John McCain to give the FBI the dossier on the Trump campaign’s alleged ties to Russia, a revelation that comes after Trump repeatedly assailed the late Arizona Republican over the issue.
Last week, Trump accused McCain of handing over the document “for very evil purposes.” McCain died of brain cancer in August.
Graham, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters Monday McCain showed him the dossier when he received it in late 2016.
“And I told him the only thing I knew to do with it, it could be a bunch of garbage, it could be true, who knows? Turn it over to somebody whose job it is to find these things out, and John McCain acted appropriately,” Graham said, according to CNN.
“He & the Dems, working together, failed (as usual). Even the Fake News refused this garbage!” Trump said in the tweet.
McCain was not made aware of the Steele dossier until Nov. 18, 2016 — after Trump had won the election. And while McCain himself gave the dossier to the FBI, there is no evidence he gave it to the media.
Former McCain aide David Kramer, a Russia expert, has testified that he gave the dossier to the media in December 2016.
I actually think this is an important angle to pick apart. McCain's and Kramer's hands were on it. Kramer seems to have done more active disseminating then McCain but this all needs to be drilled down on. Remember at this point the dossier was not new. The FBI had it months before but now it was being passed to media through Kramer and FBI again through McCain. Did they innocently have it handed to them and just did what they thought was right or were they participating in something else. This was recycled intelligence made to appear as corroborating intelligence from a non-partisan source. This story will be told. McCain's obvious war hero status is not a reason to look away. You all felt that way in the run up to 2008.
You can keep believing the Steele Dossier was the impetus to begin investigating Team Trump Treason and his campaign all you want. Its not going to make it true. Further, perhaps part of the reason Team Mueller dropped the collusion, I prefer conspiracy as collusion is not a crime, against Team Trump Treason was because he couldn't indict, DOJ policy not withstanding, without revealing a large amount of sources and methods. The investigation wasn't a witch hunt. It was a proper investigation into someone who may very well be compromised. We need the full Team Mueller report released, followed by Hill testimony from Mueller, Rosenstein and particularly AG Barr.
Britain’s spy agencies played a crucial role in alerting their counterparts in Washington to contacts between members of Donald Trump’s campaign team and Russian intelligence operatives, the Guardian has been told.
GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added.
Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.
The European countries that passed on electronic intelligence – known as sigint – included Germany, Estonia and Poland. Australia, a member of the “Five Eyes” spying alliance that also includes the US, UK, Canada and New Zealand, also relayed material, one source said.
Another source suggested the Dutch and the French spy agency, the General Directorate for External Security or DGSE, were contributors.
It is understood that GCHQ was at no point carrying out a targeted operation against Trump or his team or proactively seeking information. The alleged conversations were picked up by chance as part of routine surveillance of Russian intelligence assets. Over several months, different agencies targeting the same people began to see a pattern of connections that were flagged to intelligence officials in the US.
It's late for this, but I'm going to offer it anyways:
People can say what they want, but I respect @BS44325 for his efforts expressing where he is at in this entire affair. He's far from a 'troll' and in my opinion offers a level of credibility to the 'other' side.
I'm not saying I agree with him entirely- I don't. But his contributions are infinitely greater than 'woot' and 'MAGA' and 'lock her up'... and if I'm being honest... I pause for thought when reading his submissions.
Yeah, I can appreciate it to an extent, but it's clear there is some trolling going on to. Most recently the "MAGA bitches" comment. There is a lot of pompous know-it-all in there even though it's a lot of speculation and mainly just meant to annoy the status quo in here who despise a gelatinous blob as president.
Not to mention the easily dispelled BS that he posts. But one example as he repeated the Faux News talking point regarding the Steele Dossier. I guess now Senator Graham is a liar?:
Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) said Monday he had told Sen. John McCain to give the FBI the dossier on the Trump campaign’s alleged ties to Russia, a revelation that comes after Trump repeatedly assailed the late Arizona Republican over the issue.
Last week, Trump accused McCain of handing over the document “for very evil purposes.” McCain died of brain cancer in August.
Graham, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters Monday McCain showed him the dossier when he received it in late 2016.
“And I told him the only thing I knew to do with it, it could be a bunch of garbage, it could be true, who knows? Turn it over to somebody whose job it is to find these things out, and John McCain acted appropriately,” Graham said, according to CNN.
“He & the Dems, working together, failed (as usual). Even the Fake News refused this garbage!” Trump said in the tweet.
McCain was not made aware of the Steele dossier until Nov. 18, 2016 — after Trump had won the election. And while McCain himself gave the dossier to the FBI, there is no evidence he gave it to the media.
Former McCain aide David Kramer, a Russia expert, has testified that he gave the dossier to the media in December 2016.
I actually think this is an important angle to pick apart. McCain's and Kramer's hands were on it. Kramer seems to have done more active disseminating then McCain but this all needs to be drilled down on. Remember at this point the dossier was not new. The FBI had it months before but now it was being passed to media through Kramer and FBI again through McCain. Did they innocently have it handed to them and just did what they thought was right or were they participating in something else. This was recycled intelligence made to appear as corroborating intelligence from a non-partisan source. This story will be told. McCain's obvious war hero status is not a reason to look away. You all felt that way in the run up to 2008.
You mean were they participating in the coup rumor that you continue to propagate without regard to the lessons learned from Iraq?
Yes. They were participating. The question is whether they were wittingly or unwittingly participating. Lindsey Graham believes McCain was an unwitting participant. Personally I am not ready to indict them or exonerate them.
He hardly has a mandate to start in on the ACA. He was BARELY not indicted. Hooray! What a patriot.
I personally see it much different. He was hated because he said vulgar ridiculous stuff and later won against a corrupt political party who cheated their own supporters in primaries and continued to do so by lying to get a warrant to spy on his campaign. After 2 whole years of an exhaustive investigation which included the media spreading falsities every day, he somehow survived. Teflon Don I suppose, but I’m not sure anyone else would have made it. I would have given up a long time ago. Well, I wouldn’t be elected nor would I run anyway so whatevs
I'm a Democrat. How was I cheated? Explain to me how Hillary cheated Bernie.
It's late for this, but I'm going to offer it anyways:
People can say what they want, but I respect @BS44325 for his efforts expressing where he is at in this entire affair. He's far from a 'troll' and in my opinion offers a level of credibility to the 'other' side.
I'm not saying I agree with him entirely- I don't. But his contributions are infinitely greater than 'woot' and 'MAGA' and 'lock her up'... and if I'm being honest... I pause for thought when reading his submissions.
Yeah, I can appreciate it to an extent, but it's clear there is some trolling going on to. Most recently the "MAGA bitches" comment. There is a lot of pompous know-it-all in there even though it's a lot of speculation and mainly just meant to annoy the status quo in here who despise a gelatinous blob as president.
Not to mention the easily dispelled BS that he posts. But one example as he repeated the Faux News talking point regarding the Steele Dossier. I guess now Senator Graham is a liar?:
Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) said Monday he had told Sen. John McCain to give the FBI the dossier on the Trump campaign’s alleged ties to Russia, a revelation that comes after Trump repeatedly assailed the late Arizona Republican over the issue.
Last week, Trump accused McCain of handing over the document “for very evil purposes.” McCain died of brain cancer in August.
Graham, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters Monday McCain showed him the dossier when he received it in late 2016.
“And I told him the only thing I knew to do with it, it could be a bunch of garbage, it could be true, who knows? Turn it over to somebody whose job it is to find these things out, and John McCain acted appropriately,” Graham said, according to CNN.
“He & the Dems, working together, failed (as usual). Even the Fake News refused this garbage!” Trump said in the tweet.
McCain was not made aware of the Steele dossier until Nov. 18, 2016 — after Trump had won the election. And while McCain himself gave the dossier to the FBI, there is no evidence he gave it to the media.
Former McCain aide David Kramer, a Russia expert, has testified that he gave the dossier to the media in December 2016.
I actually think this is an important angle to pick apart. McCain's and Kramer's hands were on it. Kramer seems to have done more active disseminating then McCain but this all needs to be drilled down on. Remember at this point the dossier was not new. The FBI had it months before but now it was being passed to media through Kramer and FBI again through McCain. Did they innocently have it handed to them and just did what they thought was right or were they participating in something else. This was recycled intelligence made to appear as corroborating intelligence from a non-partisan source. This story will be told. McCain's obvious war hero status is not a reason to look away. You all felt that way in the run up to 2008.
You mean were they participating in the coup rumor that you continue to propagate without regard to the lessons learned from Iraq?
Yes. They were participating. The question is whether they were wittingly or unwittingly participating. Lindsey Graham believes McCain was an unwitting participant. Personally I am not ready to indict them or exonerate them.
I'm glad you aren't ready to indict them, considering a few things: 1. You're not a prosecutor 2. You're not a citizen 3. You have no evidence 4. You've never interviewed a subject in the matter. So I have to compliment you on your amazing restraint, although you still continue to apply intent to the actions of people who you don't know, never spoke with, and are responsible for keeping Americans safe every day. But keep at it, it makes a difference.
It's late for this, but I'm going to offer it anyways:
People can say what they want, but I respect @BS44325 for his efforts expressing where he is at in this entire affair. He's far from a 'troll' and in my opinion offers a level of credibility to the 'other' side.
I'm not saying I agree with him entirely- I don't. But his contributions are infinitely greater than 'woot' and 'MAGA' and 'lock her up'... and if I'm being honest... I pause for thought when reading his submissions.
Yeah, I can appreciate it to an extent, but it's clear there is some trolling going on to. Most recently the "MAGA bitches" comment. There is a lot of pompous know-it-all in there even though it's a lot of speculation and mainly just meant to annoy the status quo in here who despise a gelatinous blob as president.
Not to mention the easily dispelled BS that he posts. But one example as he repeated the Faux News talking point regarding the Steele Dossier. I guess now Senator Graham is a liar?:
Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) said Monday he had told Sen. John McCain to give the FBI the dossier on the Trump campaign’s alleged ties to Russia, a revelation that comes after Trump repeatedly assailed the late Arizona Republican over the issue.
Last week, Trump accused McCain of handing over the document “for very evil purposes.” McCain died of brain cancer in August.
Graham, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters Monday McCain showed him the dossier when he received it in late 2016.
“And I told him the only thing I knew to do with it, it could be a bunch of garbage, it could be true, who knows? Turn it over to somebody whose job it is to find these things out, and John McCain acted appropriately,” Graham said, according to CNN.
“He & the Dems, working together, failed (as usual). Even the Fake News refused this garbage!” Trump said in the tweet.
McCain was not made aware of the Steele dossier until Nov. 18, 2016 — after Trump had won the election. And while McCain himself gave the dossier to the FBI, there is no evidence he gave it to the media.
Former McCain aide David Kramer, a Russia expert, has testified that he gave the dossier to the media in December 2016.
I actually think this is an important angle to pick apart. McCain's and Kramer's hands were on it. Kramer seems to have done more active disseminating then McCain but this all needs to be drilled down on. Remember at this point the dossier was not new. The FBI had it months before but now it was being passed to media through Kramer and FBI again through McCain. Did they innocently have it handed to them and just did what they thought was right or were they participating in something else. This was recycled intelligence made to appear as corroborating intelligence from a non-partisan source. This story will be told. McCain's obvious war hero status is not a reason to look away. You all felt that way in the run up to 2008.
You can keep believing the Steele Dossier was the impetus to begin investigating Team Trump Treason and his campaign all you want. Its not going to make it true. Further, perhaps part of the reason Team Mueller dropped the collusion, I prefer conspiracy as collusion is not a crime, against Team Trump Treason was because he couldn't indict, DOJ policy not withstanding, without revealing a large amount of sources and methods. The investigation wasn't a witch hunt. It was a proper investigation into someone who may very well be compromised. We need the full Team Mueller report released, followed by Hill testimony from Mueller, Rosenstein and particularly AG Barr.
Britain’s spy agencies played a crucial role in alerting their counterparts in Washington to contacts between members of Donald Trump’s campaign team and Russian intelligence operatives, the Guardian has been told.
GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added.
Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.
The European countries that passed on electronic intelligence – known as sigint – included Germany, Estonia and Poland. Australia, a member of the “Five Eyes” spying alliance that also includes the US, UK, Canada and New Zealand, also relayed material, one source said.
Another source suggested the Dutch and the French spy agency, the General Directorate for External Security or DGSE, were contributors.
It is understood that GCHQ was at no point carrying out a targeted operation against Trump or his team or proactively seeking information. The alleged conversations were picked up by chance as part of routine surveillance of Russian intelligence assets. Over several months, different agencies targeting the same people began to see a pattern of connections that were flagged to intelligence officials in the US.
It's late for this, but I'm going to offer it anyways:
People can say what they want, but I respect @BS44325 for his efforts expressing where he is at in this entire affair. He's far from a 'troll' and in my opinion offers a level of credibility to the 'other' side.
I'm not saying I agree with him entirely- I don't. But his contributions are infinitely greater than 'woot' and 'MAGA' and 'lock her up'... and if I'm being honest... I pause for thought when reading his submissions.
Yeah, I can appreciate it to an extent, but it's clear there is some trolling going on to. Most recently the "MAGA bitches" comment. There is a lot of pompous know-it-all in there even though it's a lot of speculation and mainly just meant to annoy the status quo in here who despise a gelatinous blob as president.
Not to mention the easily dispelled BS that he posts. But one example as he repeated the Faux News talking point regarding the Steele Dossier. I guess now Senator Graham is a liar?:
Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) said Monday he had told Sen. John McCain to give the FBI the dossier on the Trump campaign’s alleged ties to Russia, a revelation that comes after Trump repeatedly assailed the late Arizona Republican over the issue.
Last week, Trump accused McCain of handing over the document “for very evil purposes.” McCain died of brain cancer in August.
Graham, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters Monday McCain showed him the dossier when he received it in late 2016.
“And I told him the only thing I knew to do with it, it could be a bunch of garbage, it could be true, who knows? Turn it over to somebody whose job it is to find these things out, and John McCain acted appropriately,” Graham said, according to CNN.
“He & the Dems, working together, failed (as usual). Even the Fake News refused this garbage!” Trump said in the tweet.
McCain was not made aware of the Steele dossier until Nov. 18, 2016 — after Trump had won the election. And while McCain himself gave the dossier to the FBI, there is no evidence he gave it to the media.
Former McCain aide David Kramer, a Russia expert, has testified that he gave the dossier to the media in December 2016.
I actually think this is an important angle to pick apart. McCain's and Kramer's hands were on it. Kramer seems to have done more active disseminating then McCain but this all needs to be drilled down on. Remember at this point the dossier was not new. The FBI had it months before but now it was being passed to media through Kramer and FBI again through McCain. Did they innocently have it handed to them and just did what they thought was right or were they participating in something else. This was recycled intelligence made to appear as corroborating intelligence from a non-partisan source. This story will be told. McCain's obvious war hero status is not a reason to look away. You all felt that way in the run up to 2008.
You mean were they participating in the coup rumor that you continue to propagate without regard to the lessons learned from Iraq?
Yes. They were participating. The question is whether they were wittingly or unwittingly participating. Lindsey Graham believes McCain was an unwitting participant. Personally I am not ready to indict them or exonerate them.
I'm glad you aren't ready to indict them, considering a few things: 1. You're not a prosecutor 2. You're not a citizen 3. You have no evidence 4. You've never interviewed a subject in the matter. So I have to compliment you on your amazing restraint, although you still continue to apply intent to the actions of people who you don't know, never spoke with, and are responsible for keeping Americans safe every day. But keep at it, it makes a difference.
Haaaa. An answer I've never seen you give to the constant insanity that oozes out of this place. Maybe this forum just ain't a place for you if random people riffing isn't your thing.
The issue of GCHQ’s role in the FBI’s ongoing investigation into possible cooperation between the Trump campaign and Moscow is highly sensitive. In March Trump tweeted that Barack Obama had illegally “wiretapped” him in Trump Tower.
The White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, claimed the “British spying agency” GCHQ had carried out the bugging. Spicer cited an unsubstantiated report on Fox News. Fox later distanced itself from the report.
The claims prompted an extremely unusual rebuke from GCHQ, which generally refrains from commenting on all intelligence matters. The agency described the allegations first made by a former judge turned media commentator, Andrew Napolitano, as “nonsense”.
“They are utterly ridiculous and should be ignored,” a spokesperson for GCHQ said.
Instead both US and UK intelligence sources acknowledge that GCHQ played an early, prominent role in kickstarting the FBI’s Trump-Russia investigation, which began in late July 2016.
One source called the British eavesdropping agency the “principal whistleblower”.
The Guardian has been told the FBI and the CIA were slow to appreciate the extensive nature of contacts between Trump’s team and Moscow ahead of the US election. This was in part due to US law that prohibits US agencies from examining the private communications of American citizens without warrants. “They are trained not to do this,” the source stressed.
“It looks like the [US] agencies were asleep,” the source added. “They [the European agencies] were saying: ‘There are contacts going on between people close to Mr Trump and people we believe are Russian intelligence agents. You should be wary of this.’
“The message was: ‘Watch out. There’s something not right here.’”
According to one account, GCHQ’s then head, Robert Hannigan, passed material in summer 2016 to the CIA chief, John Brennan. The matter was deemed so sensitive it was handled at “director level”. After an initially slow start, Brennan used GCHQ information and intelligence from other partners to launch a major inter-agency investigation.
In late August and September Brennan gave a series of classified briefings to the Gang of Eight, the top-ranking Democratic and Republican leaders in the House and Senate. He told them the agency had evidence the Kremlin might be trying to help Trump to win the presidency, the New York Times reported.
One person familiar with the matter said Brennan did not reveal sources but made reference to the fact that America’s intelligence allies had provided information. Trump subsequently learned of GCHQ’s role, the person said.
The person described US intelligence as being “very late to the game”. The FBI’s director, James Comey, altered his position after the election and Trump’s victory, becoming “more affirmative” and with a “higher level of concern”.
Comey’s apparent shift may have followed a mid-October decision by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (Fisa) court to approve a secret surveillance order. The order gave permission for the Department of Justice to investigate two banks suspected of being part of the Kremlin’s undercover influence operation.
According to the BBC, the justice department’s request came after a tipoff from an intelligence agency in one of the Baltic states. This is believed to be Estonia.
The Washington Post reported on Wednesday that the same order covered Carter Page, one of Trump’s associates. It allowed the FBI and the justice department to monitor Page’s communications. Page, a former foreign policy aide, was suspected of being an agent of influence working for Russia, the paper said, citing US officials.
The application covered contacts Page allegedly had in 2013 with a Russian foreign intelligence agent, and other undisclosed meetings with Russian operatives, the Post said. Page denies wrongdoing and complained of “unjustified, politically motivated government surveillance”.
Britain’s MI6 spy agency played a part in intelligence sharing with the US, one source said. MI6 declined to comment. Its former chief Sir Richard Dearlove described Trump’s wiretapping claim on Thursday as “simply deeply embarrassing for Trump and the administration”.
It's late for this, but I'm going to offer it anyways:
People can say what they want, but I respect @BS44325 for his efforts expressing where he is at in this entire affair. He's far from a 'troll' and in my opinion offers a level of credibility to the 'other' side.
I'm not saying I agree with him entirely- I don't. But his contributions are infinitely greater than 'woot' and 'MAGA' and 'lock her up'... and if I'm being honest... I pause for thought when reading his submissions.
Yeah, I can appreciate it to an extent, but it's clear there is some trolling going on to. Most recently the "MAGA bitches" comment. There is a lot of pompous know-it-all in there even though it's a lot of speculation and mainly just meant to annoy the status quo in here who despise a gelatinous blob as president.
Not to mention the easily dispelled BS that he posts. But one example as he repeated the Faux News talking point regarding the Steele Dossier. I guess now Senator Graham is a liar?:
Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) said Monday he had told Sen. John McCain to give the FBI the dossier on the Trump campaign’s alleged ties to Russia, a revelation that comes after Trump repeatedly assailed the late Arizona Republican over the issue.
Last week, Trump accused McCain of handing over the document “for very evil purposes.” McCain died of brain cancer in August.
Graham, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters Monday McCain showed him the dossier when he received it in late 2016.
“And I told him the only thing I knew to do with it, it could be a bunch of garbage, it could be true, who knows? Turn it over to somebody whose job it is to find these things out, and John McCain acted appropriately,” Graham said, according to CNN.
“He & the Dems, working together, failed (as usual). Even the Fake News refused this garbage!” Trump said in the tweet.
McCain was not made aware of the Steele dossier until Nov. 18, 2016 — after Trump had won the election. And while McCain himself gave the dossier to the FBI, there is no evidence he gave it to the media.
Former McCain aide David Kramer, a Russia expert, has testified that he gave the dossier to the media in December 2016.
I actually think this is an important angle to pick apart. McCain's and Kramer's hands were on it. Kramer seems to have done more active disseminating then McCain but this all needs to be drilled down on. Remember at this point the dossier was not new. The FBI had it months before but now it was being passed to media through Kramer and FBI again through McCain. Did they innocently have it handed to them and just did what they thought was right or were they participating in something else. This was recycled intelligence made to appear as corroborating intelligence from a non-partisan source. This story will be told. McCain's obvious war hero status is not a reason to look away. You all felt that way in the run up to 2008.
You mean were they participating in the coup rumor that you continue to propagate without regard to the lessons learned from Iraq?
Yes. They were participating. The question is whether they were wittingly or unwittingly participating. Lindsey Graham believes McCain was an unwitting participant. Personally I am not ready to indict them or exonerate them.
I'm glad you aren't ready to indict them, considering a few things: 1. You're not a prosecutor 2. You're not a citizen 3. You have no evidence 4. You've never interviewed a subject in the matter. So I have to compliment you on your amazing restraint, although you still continue to apply intent to the actions of people who you don't know, never spoke with, and are responsible for keeping Americans safe every day. But keep at it, it makes a difference.
Haaaa. An answer I've never seen you give to the constant insanity that oozes out of this place. Maybe this forum just ain't a place for you if random people riffing isn't your thing.
I don't mind random riffing, but the trolling you engaged in on Saturday deserves an appropriate response. Second, the conspiracy mongering is worse than the 'Russia-gate', considering there was an actual special counsel for RG. So until there are indictments on DOJ brass for violation of US Code related to the overthrow of the gov't, all you are doing is the very thing you were righteously railing against with the Tabbi article. Riffing is not the same as hypocrisy.
“The only possible explanation is that Trump started tweeting without understanding how the NSA-GCHQ relationship actually works,” Dearlove told Prospect magazine.
Hell yeah- saw that the pentagon released 1 billion and they’re building 57 miles of it near Yuma and El Paso. Good stuff. The media was focused on the mueller waste of time but 5000 illegal immigrants were stopped this past weekend alone. It’s out of control. In San Antonio ice just drops off these people at these bus stops after they’ve been detained near churches and they can’t feed or clothe them because they’re out of supplies and overflowing with people. The diseases are worrisome as very few of them are vaccinated at all.
Don't forget that the number of undocumented immigrants that ICE detains doesn't correlate with the number of undocumented immigrants coming into the US at any given time - it only correlates with the amount of energy they've been instructed to spend to detain persons. If Trump had said "ease back a bit", they'd have picked up less than 5000. What you're seeing does not mean a problem is getting worse - it means your President is tolerating less.
I'm not opposed to building the wall from a moral perspective - a country truly is entitled to fortify its borders if it chooses - but I find it short-sighted, and unnecessary (along with the things that come with it - the perceived cruelty, the real divide, the logistical challenges with a major trade partner, the increase in processing needs per border crossing and thus potential for bottleneck, and the cost of the thing, for no truly indicated or expected results).
I also think from a purely economic perspective, it's been understood for some time now that the jobs occupied by undocumented immigrants have effectively established a new market value for that labour, because they take the work that US citizens never wanted, and do it at a price US citizens deem beneath them. This means that if that influx disappears, businesses have to bear a newly increased cost for the labour. Businesses don't typically accept increased costs for labour - instead, they hire less, ask more of current employees, and have clients subsidize these realities with increased prices.
Putting all of these together, I think it's likely that the lasting legacy of a wall will be exploitation of the Mexican government (just like applying sanctions, it's another great way to restrict a country's global power while exerting your own, and gain trade negotiating leverage), the de-weaving of the social fabric with respect to US-Mexican cultural exchanges, security risks (when you threaten an entire neighbouring country's livelihood and escape route to safety, you should expect this), a less powerful internal economy where businesses act more frugally (as discussed above), a more expensive life with respect to consumer products, busier borders making trade more difficult.
Like I said, morally, if Trump wants to do this, he can, but he should know that he will own the costs and not just the benefits he perceives of this. You should know the costs too - and you should be concerned (whether you want this or not) that Trump doesn't want to talk about them.
You know, I (and many others) have been beating this drum for the longest time that wall proponents simply don't get: the effect this will have on the economy as a whole and their own wallets, specifically.
-illegal immigrants are working in fields and construction sites for pennies on the dollar -americans make more than those wages on welfare
They are not taking your jobs. americans are giving them to them. costs will inevitably increase substantially, and then all the wall bangers will be pissing and moaning about paying $3 an apple and thousands more for renos on their house.
these issues don't matter to the people on the Hill. they can afford these increases. they are using your own fear and racist tendencies against what's actually best for you.
You guys are both correct, I’m sure. I am for obeying the law, though, and illegal is illegal. If they go through the system then I have no problem with it at all. It’s not the people I have a problem with, it’s the fact that it’s not lawful. I’ve said it before, but even my employees who are from Mexico (some on visas and some are citizens) are against it because they did it lawfully. They don’t like the fact that some get to break the rules while they followed them. It has nothing to do with race for me, I don’t care if they’re from Sweden or Russia or China or Mars, we just don’t have a problemhappening on any of our other borders, just the one with Mexico.
as for the economics, I defer to the pros on that- I’m not bothered if I have to spend more money because we enforce our laws. That’s the way it is and we’ll change our spending habits to adapt. Here in austin the construction guys are creating chaos because the city is growing so big- so many undocumented guys are just leaving one site for another that will pay more in cash per day (in the middle of their shift no less,) that it’s delaying construction projects by months in some cases. You’re right, they’re the ones who want those jobs. I think if they were legal they’d still want those jobs though, so I’m not sure I fully get the argument that there would be no one to fill certain jobs. There would be, they’d just be legal
just don’t get why following laws makes people so uncomfortable
Comments
Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) said Monday he had told Sen. John McCain to give the FBI the dossier on the Trump campaign’s alleged ties to Russia, a revelation that comes after Trump repeatedly assailed the late Arizona Republican over the issue.
Last week, Trump accused McCain of handing over the document “for very evil purposes.” McCain died of brain cancer in August.
Graham, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, told reporters Monday McCain showed him the dossier when he received it in late 2016.
“And I told him the only thing I knew to do with it, it could be a bunch of garbage, it could be true, who knows? Turn it over to somebody whose job it is to find these things out, and John McCain acted appropriately,” Graham said, according to CNN.
“He & the Dems, working together, failed (as usual). Even the Fake News refused this garbage!” Trump said in the tweet.
McCain was not made aware of the Steele dossier until Nov. 18, 2016 — after Trump had won the election. And while McCain himself gave the dossier to the FBI, there is no evidence he gave it to the media.
Former McCain aide David Kramer, a Russia expert, has testified that he gave the dossier to the media in December 2016.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sen-lindsey-graham-says-he-told-john-mccain-to-give-trump-russia-dossier-to-fbi/2019/03/25/f35e28ca-4f26-11e9-a3f7-78b7525a8d5f_story.html?utm_term=.8dd1dfc33b5cLibtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
I'm not opposed to building the wall from a moral perspective - a country truly is entitled to fortify its borders if it chooses - but I find it short-sighted, and unnecessary (along with the things that come with it - the perceived cruelty, the real divide, the logistical challenges with a major trade partner, the increase in processing needs per border crossing and thus potential for bottleneck, and the cost of the thing, for no truly indicated or expected results).
I also think from a purely economic perspective, it's been understood for some time now that the jobs occupied by undocumented immigrants have effectively established a new market value for that labour, because they take the work that US citizens never wanted, and do it at a price US citizens deem beneath them. This means that if that influx disappears, businesses have to bear a newly increased cost for the labour. Businesses don't typically accept increased costs for labour - instead, they hire less, ask more of current employees, and have clients subsidize these realities with increased prices.
Putting all of these together, I think it's likely that the lasting legacy of a wall will be exploitation of the Mexican government (just like applying sanctions, it's another great way to restrict a country's global power while exerting your own, and gain trade negotiating leverage), the de-weaving of the social fabric with respect to US-Mexican cultural exchanges, security risks (when you threaten an entire neighbouring country's livelihood and escape route to safety, you should expect this), a less powerful internal economy where businesses act more frugally (as discussed above), a more expensive life with respect to consumer products, busier borders making trade more difficult.
Like I said, morally, if Trump wants to do this, he can, but he should know that he will own the costs and not just the benefits he perceives of this. You should know the costs too - and you should be concerned (whether you want this or not) that Trump doesn't want to talk about them.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Come on, you know it's a bigger chance it do exist than it doesn't.
-illegal immigrants are working in fields and construction sites for pennies on the dollar
-americans make more than those wages on welfare
They are not taking your jobs. americans are giving them to them.
costs will inevitably increase substantially, and then all the wall bangers will be pissing and moaning about paying $3 an apple and thousands more for renos on their house.
these issues don't matter to the people on the Hill. they can afford these increases. they are using your own fear and racist tendencies against what's actually best for you.
Cheers,
HFD
Cheers,
HFD
Britain’s spy agencies played a crucial role in alerting their counterparts in Washington to contacts between members of Donald Trump’s campaign team and Russian intelligence operatives, the Guardian has been told.
GCHQ first became aware in late 2015 of suspicious “interactions” between figures connected to Trump and known or suspected Russian agents, a source close to UK intelligence said. This intelligence was passed to the US as part of a routine exchange of information, they added.
Over the next six months, until summer 2016, a number of western agencies shared further information on contacts between Trump’s inner circle and Russians, sources said.
The latest major Trump resignations and firings
The European countries that passed on electronic intelligence – known as sigint – included Germany, Estonia and Poland. Australia, a member of the “Five Eyes” spying alliance that also includes the US, UK, Canada and New Zealand, also relayed material, one source said.
Another source suggested the Dutch and the French spy agency, the General Directorate for External Security or DGSE, were contributors.
It is understood that GCHQ was at no point carrying out a targeted operation against Trump or his team or proactively seeking information. The alleged conversations were picked up by chance as part of routine surveillance of Russian intelligence assets. Over several months, different agencies targeting the same people began to see a pattern of connections that were flagged to intelligence officials in the US.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/13/british-spies-first-to-spot-trump-team-links-russia
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
So I have to compliment you on your amazing restraint, although you still continue to apply intent to the actions of people who you don't know, never spoke with, and are responsible for keeping Americans safe every day. But keep at it, it makes a difference.
The issue of GCHQ’s role in the FBI’s ongoing investigation into possible cooperation between the Trump campaign and Moscow is highly sensitive. In March Trump tweeted that Barack Obama had illegally “wiretapped” him in Trump Tower.
The White House press secretary, Sean Spicer, claimed the “British spying agency” GCHQ had carried out the bugging. Spicer cited an unsubstantiated report on Fox News. Fox later distanced itself from the report.
The claims prompted an extremely unusual rebuke from GCHQ, which generally refrains from commenting on all intelligence matters. The agency described the allegations first made by a former judge turned media commentator, Andrew Napolitano, as “nonsense”.
“They are utterly ridiculous and should be ignored,” a spokesperson for GCHQ said.
Instead both US and UK intelligence sources acknowledge that GCHQ played an early, prominent role in kickstarting the FBI’s Trump-Russia investigation, which began in late July 2016.
One source called the British eavesdropping agency the “principal whistleblower”.
The Guardian has been told the FBI and the CIA were slow to appreciate the extensive nature of contacts between Trump’s team and Moscow ahead of the US election. This was in part due to US law that prohibits US agencies from examining the private communications of American citizens without warrants. “They are trained not to do this,” the source stressed.
“It looks like the [US] agencies were asleep,” the source added. “They [the European agencies] were saying: ‘There are contacts going on between people close to Mr Trump and people we believe are Russian intelligence agents. You should be wary of this.’
“The message was: ‘Watch out. There’s something not right here.’”
According to one account, GCHQ’s then head, Robert Hannigan, passed material in summer 2016 to the CIA chief, John Brennan. The matter was deemed so sensitive it was handled at “director level”. After an initially slow start, Brennan used GCHQ information and intelligence from other partners to launch a major inter-agency investigation.
In late August and September Brennan gave a series of classified briefings to the Gang of Eight, the top-ranking Democratic and Republican leaders in the House and Senate. He told them the agency had evidence the Kremlin might be trying to help Trump to win the presidency, the New York Times reported.
One person familiar with the matter said Brennan did not reveal sources but made reference to the fact that America’s intelligence allies had provided information. Trump subsequently learned of GCHQ’s role, the person said.
The person described US intelligence as being “very late to the game”. The FBI’s director, James Comey, altered his position after the election and Trump’s victory, becoming “more affirmative” and with a “higher level of concern”.
Comey’s apparent shift may have followed a mid-October decision by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (Fisa) court to approve a secret surveillance order. The order gave permission for the Department of Justice to investigate two banks suspected of being part of the Kremlin’s undercover influence operation.
According to the BBC, the justice department’s request came after a tipoff from an intelligence agency in one of the Baltic states. This is believed to be Estonia.
The Washington Post reported on Wednesday that the same order covered Carter Page, one of Trump’s associates. It allowed the FBI and the justice department to monitor Page’s communications. Page, a former foreign policy aide, was suspected of being an agent of influence working for Russia, the paper said, citing US officials.
The application covered contacts Page allegedly had in 2013 with a Russian foreign intelligence agent, and other undisclosed meetings with Russian operatives, the Post said. Page denies wrongdoing and complained of “unjustified, politically motivated government surveillance”.
Late last year Comey threw more FBI resources into what became a far-reaching counter-intelligence investigation. In March he confirmed before the House intelligence committee that the agency was examining possible cooperation between Moscow and members of the Trump campaign to sway the US election.
Comey and the NSA director, Admiral Michael Rogers, said there was no basisfor the president’s claim that he was a victim of Obama “wiretapping”. Trump had likened the unproved allegation to “McCarthyism”.
Britain’s MI6 spy agency played a part in intelligence sharing with the US, one source said. MI6 declined to comment. Its former chief Sir Richard Dearlove described Trump’s wiretapping claim on Thursday as “simply deeply embarrassing for Trump and the administration”.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/13/british-spies-first-to-spot-trump-team-links-russia
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
“The only possible explanation is that Trump started tweeting without understanding how the NSA-GCHQ relationship actually works,” Dearlove told Prospect magazine.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
as for the economics, I defer to the pros on that- I’m not bothered if I have to spend more money because we enforce our laws. That’s the way it is and we’ll change our spending habits to adapt. Here in austin the construction guys are creating chaos because the city is growing so big- so
many undocumented guys are just leaving one site for another that will pay more in cash per day (in the middle of their shift no less,) that it’s delaying construction projects by months in some cases. You’re right, they’re the ones who want those jobs. I think if they were legal they’d still want those jobs though, so I’m not sure I fully get the argument that there would be no one to
fill certain jobs. There would be, they’d just be legal
just don’t get why following laws makes people so uncomfortable