Is BRADY The G.O.A.T.

g under p

True dat, that is certainly an ingredient that *drive* that it takes to be great. Having that separates some players from most everyone else.

Peace

HesCalledDyer

ehbacon said:

Ok let's do a hypothetical for a second then. If Aaron Rodgers is a Patriot instead of Brady, you don't think that he would get 5 rings? Do you think if Brady is on the Packers he gets a single ring?

Wins is a team stat, has no impact on this conversation. The Brady circle jerk is strong now thoughn, so even when you point out how wrong people are about it they won't accept jt.

Hypotheticals mean nothing. Again, pointing out numbers on paper is not proving anyone wrong.

pearldavidson

Brady is the GOAT.

Signed,

Miserable Bills Fan

HesCalledDyer

Leadership, clutch, drive, determination, carrying the team on your back - call it what you will. Here is the list of active QB's with the most career 4th Qtr comebacks

1. Tom Brady - 39 (2nd all-time to Peyton Manning's 45)
2. Eli Manning - 30
3. Ben Roethlisberger - 29
4. Drew Brees - 28
5. Tony Romo, Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford - 25
8. Phillip Rivers - 22
9. Jay Cutler, Carson Palmer - 21
11. Joe Flacco - 19
12. Alex Smith - 18
13. Russell Wilson - 17
14. Andy Dalton, Andrew Luck - 14
16. Ryan Tannehill, Cam Newton, Derek Carr - 12
19. Matt Schaub - 11
20. Mark Sanchez, Aaron Rodgers - 10
22. Colin Kaepernick, Josh Freeman, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Cassel - 9

Other QB's with 10+ are: Tim Couch, Stan Humprhies, Don Majkowski, David Garrard, Aaron Brooks, Steve Beuerlein, Marc Bulger, Trent Green, Jay Schroeder, Jon Kitna, Steve DeBerg, Kerry Collins.

I don't have updated figures but as of the 2015 season, Rodgers was 0-25 when trailing by 9+ in the 2nd half. So I ask you, trailing in the 4th by a touchdown, do you want Brady behind center or Rodgers? If your answer is still Rodgers, that's just silly.

ehbacon

ed243421 said:

He lost to Colin kaepernick twice.

Kaepernick was great then. Plus he doesn't control our defense, so saying he lost to Kaepernick is dumb

HesCalledDyer

Kaepernick was never great. He had a few good games, that's it. Momentary flashes in the pan.

ed243421

ehbacon said:

ed243421 said:

He lost to Colin kaepernick twice.

Kaepernick was great then. Plus he doesn't control our defense, so saying he lost to Kaepernick is dumb

Aaron rogers last 6 playoff losses:

2012- giants - 264 yds 2 td 1 int

2013- 49ers - 257 yds 2 td 1 int

2014- 49ers - 177 yds 1td 0 int

2015- Seattle- 178 yds 1 td 2 int

2016- cardinals- 261 yds 2 td 1 int

2017- falcons - 287 yds 3 td 1 int

ehbacon

HesCalledDyer said:

Leadership, clutch, drive, determination, carrying the team on your back - call it what you will. Here is the list of active QB's with the most career 4th Qtr comebacks

1. Tom Brady - 39 (2nd all-time to Peyton Manning's 45)
2. Eli Manning - 30
3. Ben Roethlisberger - 29
4. Drew Brees - 28
5. Tony Romo, Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford - 25
8. Phillip Rivers - 22
9. Jay Cutler, Carson Palmer - 21
11. Joe Flacco - 19
12. Alex Smith - 18
13. Russell Wilson - 17
14. Andy Dalton, Andrew Luck - 14
16. Ryan Tannehill, Cam Newton, Derek Carr - 12
19. Matt Schaub - 11
20. Mark Sanchez, Aaron Rodgers - 10
22. Colin Kaepernick, Josh Freeman, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Cassel - 9

Other QB's with 10+ are: Tim Couch, Stan Humprhies, Don Majkowski, David Garrard, Aaron Brooks, Steve Beuerlein, Marc Bulger, Trent Green, Jay Schroeder, Jon Kitna, Steve DeBerg, Kerry Collins.

I don't have updated figures but as of the 2015 season, Rodgers was 0-25 when trailing by 9+ in the 2nd half. So I ask you, trailing in the 4th by a touchdown, do you want Brady behind center or Rodgers? If your answer is still Rodgers, that's just silly.

This statement has everything to do with defense. It's a lot easier to come back from 9+ in the second half of your defense doesn't give up any more points. If Brady is on the Packers, he's 0-25 too.


For example, if the Patriots are down by 9+, usually that means the offense hasn't played well (7 top 10 defenses since 2008, other two seasons they had 11th.) If the Packers are down 9+ it's usually because the defense isn't playing well (1 top 10 defense since 2008.)

HesCalledDyer

Hypotheticals again. There's a reason why everyone else is saying Brady and you're the only one touting Rodgers. For Pete's sake, he isn't even the greatest Green Bay QB of all time yet, let alone the history of the entire league.

ehbacon

HesCalledDyer said:

Hypotheticals again. There's a reason why everyone else is saying Brady and you're the only one touting Rodgers. For Pete's sake, he isn't even the greatest Green Bay QB of all time yet, let alone the history of the entire league.

The reason is because you just saw the greatest come back in super bowl history.

The difference between the super bowl and our championship is that Brady's defense only gave up 21 points, while ours gave up 44 points. Nobody on Brady's offense did anything to cost the Patriots points accept Brady himself as well. Our defense gave up 44 points, and our full back and kicker cost our offense 10 points on top of it. In that game, Rodgers played well enough to put us at 24-10 at the half. Brady's defense only gave up 7 2nd half points, ours gave up 20.

If the Packers defense played exactly how the Patriots defense did, the Packers go into OT at 21-21. If our offense doesn't cost us 10 points, we win 31-21. The thing that makes Brady better is his defense, and it doesn't hurt that the rest of his offense is great too.

JimmyV

Tom Brady in the Super Bowl, 7 Games (5-2)

207/309
2071 yards
15 TDs
5 INTs

HughFreakingDillon

when Brady runs it reminds me of forrest gump with his leg braces still on. it's uncomfortable to watch.

HughFreakingDillon

HesCalledDyer said:

ehbacon said:

Ok let's do a hypothetical for a second then. If Aaron Rodgers is a Patriot instead of Brady, you don't think that he would get 5 rings? Do you think if Brady is on the Packers he gets a single ring?

Wins is a team stat, has no impact on this conversation. The Brady circle jerk is strong now thoughn, so even when you point out how wrong people are about it they won't accept jt.

Hypotheticals mean nothing. Again, pointing out numbers on paper is not proving anyone wrong.

I think they mean everything. Football is such an incomprable team sport. Most team sports, all or most players have virtually the same role. Being a QB is so radically different than any other position. You depend on so much at once: your own ability, your front line, your receivers, your play calling. It absolutely can be debated whereas, someone like Michael Jordan or Wayne Gretzky simply cannot be. You put either of those guys on a terrible team, they still do well. you put a great QB on a terrible team, they do terribly. so it makes sense to ask the question if replacing the guy with someone else makes the team better or worse. It's obviously all subjective, but the discussion still needs to be included.

You put any of the elite QB's on the Pats and it can be argued. Absolutely.

ehbacon

HughFreakingDillon said:

HesCalledDyer said:

ehbacon said:

Ok let's do a hypothetical for a second then. If Aaron Rodgers is a Patriot instead of Brady, you don't think that he would get 5 rings? Do you think if Brady is on the Packers he gets a single ring?

Wins is a team stat, has no impact on this conversation. The Brady circle jerk is strong now thoughn, so even when you point out how wrong people are about it they won't accept jt.

Hypotheticals mean nothing. Again, pointing out numbers on paper is not proving anyone wrong.

I think they mean everything. Football is such an incomprable team sport. Most team sports, all or most players have virtually the same role. Being a QB is so radically different than any other position. You depend on so much at once: your own ability, your front line, your receivers, your play calling. It absolutely can be debated whereas, someone like Michael Jordan or Wayne Gretzky simply cannot be. You put either of those guys on a terrible team, they still do well. you put a great QB on a terrible team, they do terribly. so it makes sense to ask the question if replacing the guy with someone else makes the team better or worse. It's obviously all subjective, but the discussion still needs to be included.

You put any of the elite QB's on the Pats and it can be argued. Absolutely.

nice, a reasonable person!

JimmyV

HughFreakingDillon said:

HesCalledDyer said:

ehbacon said:

Ok let's do a hypothetical for a second then. If Aaron Rodgers is a Patriot instead of Brady, you don't think that he would get 5 rings? Do you think if Brady is on the Packers he gets a single ring?

Wins is a team stat, has no impact on this conversation. The Brady circle jerk is strong now thoughn, so even when you point out how wrong people are about it they won't accept jt.

Hypotheticals mean nothing. Again, pointing out numbers on paper is not proving anyone wrong.

I think they mean everything. Football is such an incomprable team sport. Most team sports, all or most players have virtually the same role. Being a QB is so radically different than any other position. You depend on so much at once: your own ability, your front line, your receivers, your play calling. It absolutely can be debated whereas, someone like Michael Jordan or Wayne Gretzky simply cannot be. You put either of those guys on a terrible team, they still do well. you put a great QB on a terrible team, they do terribly. so it makes sense to ask the question if replacing the guy with someone else makes the team better or worse. It's obviously all subjective, but the discussion still needs to be included.

You put any of the elite QB's on the Pats and it can be argued. Absolutely.

I think they mean something, but not everything. As you said, it is all subjective.

I said early on in this thread that the question of G.O.A.T. remains a fun debate. Hypotheticals are part of the reason why.

HesCalledDyer

ehbacon said:

HesCalledDyer said:

Hypotheticals again. There's a reason why everyone else is saying Brady and you're the only one touting Rodgers. For Pete's sake, he isn't even the greatest Green Bay QB of all time yet, let alone the history of the entire league.

The reason is because you just saw the greatest come back in super bowl history.

The difference between the super bowl and our championship is that Brady's defense only gave up 21 points, while ours gave up 44 points. Nobody on Brady's offense did anything to cost the Patriots points accept Brady himself as well. Our defense gave up 44 points, and our full back and kicker cost our offense 10 points on top of it. In that game, Rodgers played well enough to put us at 24-10 at the half. Brady's defense only gave up 7 2nd half points, ours gave up 20.

If the Packers defense played exactly how the Patriots defense did, the Packers go into OT at 21-21. If our offense doesn't cost us 10 points, we win 31-21. The thing that makes Brady better is his defense, and it doesn't hurt that the rest of his offense is great too.

And why does your defense give up 44 points? Because Rodgers couldn't keep the offense on the field.

ehbacon

HesCalledDyer said:

ehbacon said:

HesCalledDyer said:

Hypotheticals again. There's a reason why everyone else is saying Brady and you're the only one touting Rodgers. For Pete's sake, he isn't even the greatest Green Bay QB of all time yet, let alone the history of the entire league.

The reason is because you just saw the greatest come back in super bowl history.

The difference between the super bowl and our championship is that Brady's defense only gave up 21 points, while ours gave up 44 points. Nobody on Brady's offense did anything to cost the Patriots points accept Brady himself as well. Our defense gave up 44 points, and our full back and kicker cost our offense 10 points on top of it. In that game, Rodgers played well enough to put us at 24-10 at the half. Brady's defense only gave up 7 2nd half points, ours gave up 20.

If the Packers defense played exactly how the Patriots defense did, the Packers go into OT at 21-21. If our offense doesn't cost us 10 points, we win 31-21. The thing that makes Brady better is his defense, and it doesn't hurt that the rest of his offense is great too.

And why does your defense give up 44 points? Because Rodgers couldn't keep the offense on the field.

He did enough to score 31 points in that game, which is more than Brady scored in regulation in the super bowl. It's not his fault that his full back fumbled at the 2 yard line or that his kicker missed a routine field goal.

2-feign-reluctance

Didn't the Pats go 4-1 without Brady this season? Hmmm.

ehbacon

2-feign-reluctance said:

Didn't the Pats go 4-1 without Brady this season? Hmmm.

3-1 but that is very telling.


In 2013 Rodgers missed 7 games, during which the team went 2-4-1. They ended up winning the division that year.

JimmyV

The greatest players usually make the players around them better. Brady has done that his entire career.