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Is BRADY The G.O.A.T.

g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,209
in All Encompassing Trip
IT was just this morning I figured out what GOAT meant I thought it was something negative or that a player sucked. Now that I know what it is, WELL IS HE?

Being a PATRIOTS fan since 71' I rewatchd the game on the NFL Network today and I saw some incredible play by Brady to win that game in he second half. For me I would say he's certainly in the top three after last night's play that much he has cemented. Over the years he has not played with many HOFers maybe Moss for three years. He's won with great defenses great offenses, without major impact players on defenses and this year without GRONK.

SOMETIMES these questions gets us nowhere but it can be fun to present it one thing for sure the PATRIOTS just had a whole new set of fans cemented in their despise of the team and Brady.

Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


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Comments

  • KC138045KC138045 Columbus, OH Posts: 2,716
    IMO Montana is still #1 but Brady is definitely in the conversation.
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  • lastexit78lastexit78 Posts: 618
    I grew up in Northern California a huge Niners fan. 1984 was the first real memories I have as a NFL fan and the Niners went 15-1 and won the Super Bowl. I've probably followed the NFL as closely as anyone for the past 30 plus seasons and I can be unbiased. In reality there really is no GOAT. It's just a bunch of opinions. With that said Brady's accomplishments at this point overtake Joe's. I can make arguments both ways...

    Joe is still the GOAT because...
    1. He never lost a SB, his TD to INT ration was 11-0 in those games.
    2. The competition in the NFC during the 80's was WAY tougher than what Brady has dealt with in the salary cap watered down NFL. The Cowboys were still great in '81 and by the mid to late 80's the Skins, Bears and Giants were all great. Sometimes all at once.
    3. The rules were WAY different during this era. DB's could contact WR's well downfield and QB's were not protected in the manner they are today. Montana took some brutal hits, Leonard Marshall and Jim Burt come immediately to mind.

    Tom is the GOAT because...
    1. 5 rings in 7 SB's. Played great in most of these games. Could honestly have 7 rings if it weren't for two amazing catches by Tyree and Manningham and a drop by Welker.
    2. Joe's numbers just don't compare. Brady has been healthy and productive for 15 seasons. He has Joe beat in TD passes 456 to 273. Yes Joe won 4 SB's but in two of the seasons Steve Young started 6 games and kept the team afloat while Joe nursed various injuries. Shame Young never really got any credit but it's very unlikely they win the '88 and '89 Super Bowl's without his production.
    3. Joe had the greatest WR ever in Jerry Rice. Brady has done it with dozens of different pass catchers. In the Salary Cap era his level of consistency is almost impossible as the system is specifically rigged against long term success.


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  • lastexit78lastexit78 Posts: 618
    After what I saw last night here are my top 12 QB's. These are just guys I've witnessed play in my lifetime. I can't really judge Bradshaw, Staubach, Unitas etc.

    1. Brady
    2. Montana
    3. Manning
    4. Elway
    5. Favre
    6. Young
    7. Aikman
    8. Marino
    9. Rodgers (Top 5 if he can get another ring and put up 5 more brilliant seasons)
    10. Warner
    11. Brees
    12. Kelly

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  • ehbaconehbacon Posts: 1,971
    Rodgers is the GOAT. The Packers suck, he makes them good. He's better than Brady at every aspect of the game but having a team that can win a superbowl
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  • Wma31394Wma31394 Posts: 3,045
    ehbacon said:

    Rodgers is the GOAT. The Packers suck, he makes them good. He's better than Brady at every aspect of the game but having a team that can win a superbowl

    No way..brady is the best ever. Rodgers is a great athlete and has a great arm..your right he's good but Brady is great.
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  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 30,671
    TOGA, maybe.
    If I had known then what I know now...

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  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,165
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQbxmXilRew
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,165
    edited February 2017
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEwlLF5v1IQ

    Me before going to bed on Sunday night. I can now share empathy with all the Trump haters ...
    Post edited by Jason P on
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,165
    Trump
    Donald J. Trump
    Trump
    Donald J. Trump
    Trump
    Donald J. Trump
    Trump
    Donald J. Trump
    Trump
    Donald J. Trump
    Trump
    Donald J. Trump
    Trump
    Donald J. Trump
    Trump
    Donald J. Trump
    Trump
    Donald J. Trump
    Trump
    Donald J. Trump
    Trump
    Donald J. Trump
    GOAT. Classiest GOAT EVER!

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  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,165
    More me ... damn you Kyle Shanahan and your idiotic play calling ... didn't you ever play Madden??? Good Luck, Niners ...

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  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,209
    lastexit78 said:

    I grew up in Northern California a huge Niners fan. 1984 was the first real memories I have as a NFL fan and the Niners went 15-1 and won the Super Bowl. I've probably followed the NFL as closely as anyone for the past 30 plus seasons and I can be unbiased. In reality there really is no GOAT. It's just a bunch of opinions. With that said Brady's accomplishments at this point overtake Joe's. I can make arguments both ways...

    Joe is still the GOAT because...
    1. He never lost a SB, his TD to INT ration was 11-0 in those games.
    2. The competition in the NFC during the 80's was WAY tougher than what Brady has dealt with in the salary cap watered down NFL. The Cowboys were still great in '81 and by the mid to late 80's the Skins, Bears and Giants were all great. Sometimes all at once.
    3. The rules were WAY different during this era. DB's could contact WR's well downfield and QB's were not protected in the manner they are today. Montana took some brutal hits, Leonard Marshall and Jim Burt come immediately to mind.

    Tom is the GOAT because...
    1. 5 rings in 7 SB's. Played great in most of these games. Could honestly have 7 rings if it weren't for two amazing catches by Tyree and Manningham and a drop by Welker.
    2. Joe's numbers just don't compare. Brady has been healthy and productive for 15 seasons. He has Joe beat in TD passes 456 to 273. Yes Joe won 4 SB's but in two of the seasons Steve Young started 6 games and kept the team afloat while Joe nursed various injuries. Shame Young never really got any credit but it's very unlikely they win the '88 and '89 Super Bowl's without his production.
    3. Joe had the greatest WR ever in Jerry Rice. Brady has done it with dozens of different pass catchers. In the Salary Cap era his level of consistency is almost impossible as the system is specifically rigged against long term success.


    Hey that was well thought out however be careful when saying Brady could've won 7 SBs. On the other hand he could also be 0-7 considering every SB has come down to the last possession including last night.

    The more I think about this it's difficult who is the GOAT. Rather which QB is the best from various eras, with Brady being the best from this millineum era and Montana from the 80's through the 90's era. Either way though last night's SB was the greatest comeback Eva and a game that will be just about impossible to top anytime soon.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 16,095
    Just imagine if Peyton Manning was in New England. He and Belichek would have run the table.
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    Jason P said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQbxmXilRew

    lol, what film is that from?
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  • ehbaconehbacon Posts: 1,971
    edited February 2017
    No quarterback has ever had the consistent pin point accuracy and effortless arm strength that Aaron Rodgers has. Add that with being very agile, the best presence and escapability jn the pocket when need be, and the best at throwing on the run and you have undoubtedly the greatest quarterback of all time.

    Brady does not have the accuracy Rodgers has. He has really good accuracy, but he also has an outstanding receiving core that always get open. Brady doesn't have near the arm strength Rodgers does, that's not even debatable. Brady is also not at all quick, good in the pocket, or good at throwing on the run.

    People say Brady has great leadership skills, but Rodgers literally just carried a mediocre team on his back for 8 weeks. Remember that game winning drive against Dallas? That was all Rodgers playcalling. MM just gave him the authority to call the drive. The pass the Richard Rodgers wasn't even a designed play, Rodgers drew it up in the huddle on his hand, telling everyone what to do (Randall Cobb said that after the game).

    If Brady is a Packer we wouldn't be close to as good as we are and have been with Rodgers.
    Post edited by ehbacon on
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  • SmallestOceansSmallestOceans Posts: 13,542
    Yes Tom Brady is the greatest to ever do it without question now. All hail!!

    What he and Belichick have done is unprecedented and will never be duplicated ever again in the history of sports.

    I gotta say out of all theIr Super Bowl victories, this one was definitely the sweetest!

    There's a whole lot of other guys who were great regular season quarterbacks, won a couple championships, could put up stats...but there's only one Tom Brady. He's in a class of his own now.

    The scary thing is that he's still got a lot of football left in him. He'll never lose that drive to be the best which has always separated him from everybody else. His drive is what has made the others look pedestrian for so long.

    And when Brady wins one or two more championships in the upcoming seasons...the real question is going to be which one of his dynasties was the GOAT!!!

    Haters gonna fucking hate!
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  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,209
    One simple advantage Brady has over ALL OTHER QBs is that as far as it is known he's STILL playing. Also looking for his LI SB game jersey.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • SmallestOceansSmallestOceans Posts: 13,542
    ^And still playing as great as he's ever played really. Plus Gronk will be back next year.
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    Central Park 15
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  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 17,411
    ehbacon said:

    No quarterback has ever had the consistent pin point accuracy and effortless arm strength that Aaron Rodgers has. Add that with being very agile, the best presence and escapability jn the pocket when need be, and the best at throwing on the run and you have undoubtedly the greatest quarterback of all time.

    Brady does not have the accuracy Rodgers has. He has really good accuracy, but he also has an outstanding receiving core that always get open. Brady doesn't have near the arm strength Rodgers does, that's not even debatable. Brady is also not at all quick, good in the pocket, or good at throwing on the run.

    People say Brady has great leadership skills, but Rodgers literally just carried a mediocre team on his back for 8 weeks. Remember that game winning drive against Dallas? That was all Rodgers playcalling. MM just gave him the authority to call the drive. The pass the Richard Rodgers wasn't even a designed play, Rodgers drew it up in the huddle on his hand, telling everyone what to do (Randall Cobb said that after the game).

    If Brady is a Packer we wouldn't be close to as good as we are and have been with Rodgers.

    Brady's ability to read a defense is miles ahead of Rodgers'.

    And Brady's "not good in the pocket"? Are you serious? His ability to move in the pocket without the god given foot speed of Rodgers is another check mark in his favor.
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  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,344
    It remains a fun debate. If you want to make a case against Brady you still can but it gets harder and harder every year. What can't be debated is that Brady is without doubt the most successful QB in history. 25-9 in the playoffs, 7-4 in the AFC Championship Game, 5-2 in the Super Bowl. That is a resume that will probably never be matched.
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,209
    Prior to Sunday, playoff teams down 17+ points at the end of the 3rd were a combined 0-121.
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  • ehbaconehbacon Posts: 1,971
    Poncier said:

    ehbacon said:

    No quarterback has ever had the consistent pin point accuracy and effortless arm strength that Aaron Rodgers has. Add that with being very agile, the best presence and escapability jn the pocket when need be, and the best at throwing on the run and you have undoubtedly the greatest quarterback of all time.

    Brady does not have the accuracy Rodgers has. He has really good accuracy, but he also has an outstanding receiving core that always get open. Brady doesn't have near the arm strength Rodgers does, that's not even debatable. Brady is also not at all quick, good in the pocket, or good at throwing on the run.

    People say Brady has great leadership skills, but Rodgers literally just carried a mediocre team on his back for 8 weeks. Remember that game winning drive against Dallas? That was all Rodgers playcalling. MM just gave him the authority to call the drive. The pass the Richard Rodgers wasn't even a designed play, Rodgers drew it up in the huddle on his hand, telling everyone what to do (Randall Cobb said that after the game).

    If Brady is a Packer we wouldn't be close to as good as we are and have been with Rodgers.

    Brady's ability to read a defense is miles ahead of Rodgers'.

    And Brady's "not good in the pocket"? Are you serious? His ability to move in the pocket without the god given foot speed of Rodgers is another check mark in his favor.
    So you are conceding that Rodgers has better accuracy, arm strength, speed, and ability to throw on the run? Also seems like you are conceding that Rodgers is better in the pocket, but that's only because of "God given" foot speed. So to me that's 5 checks for Rodgers and 1 for Brady.

    Another point for Rodgers is his ability to catch defenses offsides and with 12 men on the field, the Packers alone have more free plays than the rest of the NFL combined (I think, I know the lead is insurmountable).


    So that's 6 points for Rodgers, 1 for Brady (and really i could dispute that point, but I'll let you have it.)
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  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Maryland Posts: 16,456
    edited February 2017
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    Prior to Sunday, playoff teams down 17+ points at the end of the 3rd were a combined 0-121.

    And down 19+ were 0-93.
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,209
    Brady's regular season wins are 183 to 52 losses.

    Aaron Rodgers' regular season wins are 90 to 45 losses.

    I don't think Aaron is going to win 93 more games before he has 7 more losses, despite all the superior traits you claim he has.

    Tom wants six and I believe he'll get it.
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  • ehbaconehbacon Posts: 1,971
    Success is dependent on many outside factors. Brady has had a consistently great team around him, the Packers have a had a mediocre to bad team around Rodgers.


    The Patriots won the Superbowl with the best defense in the NFL (2 points per game less given up than 2nd place), the Packers made the NFC championship with the 25th ranked defense (almost averaging 10 more points per game than NE.) Brady isn't 100% accountable for NEs wins, but Rodgers is.
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  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 17,411
    edited February 2017
    ehbacon said:

    Poncier said:

    ehbacon said:

    No quarterback has ever had the consistent pin point accuracy and effortless arm strength that Aaron Rodgers has. Add that with being very agile, the best presence and escapability jn the pocket when need be, and the best at throwing on the run and you have undoubtedly the greatest quarterback of all time.

    Brady does not have the accuracy Rodgers has. He has really good accuracy, but he also has an outstanding receiving core that always get open. Brady doesn't have near the arm strength Rodgers does, that's not even debatable. Brady is also not at all quick, good in the pocket, or good at throwing on the run.

    People say Brady has great leadership skills, but Rodgers literally just carried a mediocre team on his back for 8 weeks. Remember that game winning drive against Dallas? That was all Rodgers playcalling. MM just gave him the authority to call the drive. The pass the Richard Rodgers wasn't even a designed play, Rodgers drew it up in the huddle on his hand, telling everyone what to do (Randall Cobb said that after the game).

    If Brady is a Packer we wouldn't be close to as good as we are and have been with Rodgers.

    Brady's ability to read a defense is miles ahead of Rodgers'.

    And Brady's "not good in the pocket"? Are you serious? His ability to move in the pocket without the god given foot speed of Rodgers is another check mark in his favor.
    So you are conceding that Rodgers has better accuracy, arm strength, speed, and ability to throw on the run? Also seems like you are conceding that Rodgers is better in the pocket, but that's only because of "God given" foot speed. So to me that's 5 checks for Rodgers and 1 for Brady.

    Another point for Rodgers is his ability to catch defenses offsides and with 12 men on the field, the Packers alone have more free plays than the rest of the NFL combined (I think, I know the lead is insurmountable).


    So that's 6 points for Rodgers, 1 for Brady (and really i could dispute that point, but I'll let you have it.)
    I didn't concede anything just countered a couple of points.

    Jeff George had as strong an arm as anybody to ever play the game, should we consider him for one of the all time greats?
    Michael Vick could run circles around Aaron Wroggers, should we put him up there too?

    Brady is #1 all time, Wroggers is maybe top 5, if he can win another title.
    The most important weapon in a QB's arsenal is his brain, which is why Brady and Montana are the top 2 all time.

    This argument you are posting is similar to the Montana vs Marino arguments of 30 yrs ago. Marino had the stronger arm, put up bigger numbers, so maybe you could say he was a better pure passer, but Montana was the better QB by a longshot.

    So I'll give you that the guy who refused to bang Michelle Beadle (is that a check mark in his favor?) may be a better pure passer than Brady, but he is not and will never be a better quarterback.
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  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 17,411
    ehbacon said:

    Brady isn't 100% accountable for NEs wins, but Rodgers is.

    I must have missed where Aaron Rodgers toe tapped on the sideline then kicked the ensuing field goal in Dallas.
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  • ehbaconehbacon Posts: 1,971
    Poncier said:

    ehbacon said:

    Brady isn't 100% accountable for NEs wins, but Rodgers is.

    I must have missed where Aaron Rodgers toe tapped on the sideline then kicked the ensuing field goal in Dallas.
    The play that Aaron Rodgers drew up on his hands seconds before hand, then delivered the most perfect pass possible on the run to win the game? Yeah that was a great play indeed
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  • ehbaconehbacon Posts: 1,971
    Aaron Rodgers revolutionized the game as a QB. He mastered the Hail Mary, mastered getting free plays, and mastered the art of the scramble; things that no QB has ever done, period.

    If Aaron Rodgers is on the Patriots, the Patriots wouldn't have had to make a comeback yesterday. Brady is so slow and terrible at scrambling that when they pressured him he was stuck, and couldn't do anything.
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  • Wma31394Wma31394 Posts: 3,045
    ehbacon said:

    Aaron Rodgers revolutionized the game as a QB. He mastered the Hail Mary, mastered getting free plays, and mastered the art of the scramble; things that no QB has ever done, period.

    If Aaron Rodgers is on the Patriots, the Patriots wouldn't have had to make a comeback yesterday. Brady is so slow and terrible at scrambling that when they pressured him he was stuck, and couldn't do anything.

    Mastered a hall Mary? There's a reason its called a hail Mary. Perhaps your young or just started watching football but he hardly mastered the free play. Qbs have been doing it for ages..elway perhaps the best. Scramble?? Does Steve young ring a bell?

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,209
    ehbacon said:

    Aaron Rodgers revolutionized the game as a QB. He mastered the Hail Mary, mastered getting free plays, and mastered the art of the scramble; things that no QB has ever done, period.

    If Aaron Rodgers is on the Patriots, the Patriots wouldn't have had to make a comeback yesterday. Brady is so slow and terrible at scrambling that when they pressured him he was stuck, and couldn't do anything.

    Now I've heard it all, And that folks, is why the Patriots lost the Super Bowl.
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