Is BRADY The G.O.A.T.

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  • ehbacon
    ehbacon Posts: 1,972
    Poncier said:

    ehbacon said:

    No quarterback has ever had the consistent pin point accuracy and effortless arm strength that Aaron Rodgers has. Add that with being very agile, the best presence and escapability jn the pocket when need be, and the best at throwing on the run and you have undoubtedly the greatest quarterback of all time.

    Brady does not have the accuracy Rodgers has. He has really good accuracy, but he also has an outstanding receiving core that always get open. Brady doesn't have near the arm strength Rodgers does, that's not even debatable. Brady is also not at all quick, good in the pocket, or good at throwing on the run.

    People say Brady has great leadership skills, but Rodgers literally just carried a mediocre team on his back for 8 weeks. Remember that game winning drive against Dallas? That was all Rodgers playcalling. MM just gave him the authority to call the drive. The pass the Richard Rodgers wasn't even a designed play, Rodgers drew it up in the huddle on his hand, telling everyone what to do (Randall Cobb said that after the game).

    If Brady is a Packer we wouldn't be close to as good as we are and have been with Rodgers.

    Brady's ability to read a defense is miles ahead of Rodgers'.

    And Brady's "not good in the pocket"? Are you serious? His ability to move in the pocket without the god given foot speed of Rodgers is another check mark in his favor.
    So you are conceding that Rodgers has better accuracy, arm strength, speed, and ability to throw on the run? Also seems like you are conceding that Rodgers is better in the pocket, but that's only because of "God given" foot speed. So to me that's 5 checks for Rodgers and 1 for Brady.

    Another point for Rodgers is his ability to catch defenses offsides and with 12 men on the field, the Packers alone have more free plays than the rest of the NFL combined (I think, I know the lead is insurmountable).


    So that's 6 points for Rodgers, 1 for Brady (and really i could dispute that point, but I'll let you have it.)
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  • HesCalledDyer
    HesCalledDyer Maryland Posts: 16,498
    edited February 2017
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    Prior to Sunday, playoff teams down 17+ points at the end of the 3rd were a combined 0-121.

    And down 19+ were 0-93.
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,803
    Brady's regular season wins are 183 to 52 losses.

    Aaron Rodgers' regular season wins are 90 to 45 losses.

    I don't think Aaron is going to win 93 more games before he has 7 more losses, despite all the superior traits you claim he has.

    Tom wants six and I believe he'll get it.
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  • ehbacon
    ehbacon Posts: 1,972
    Success is dependent on many outside factors. Brady has had a consistently great team around him, the Packers have a had a mediocre to bad team around Rodgers.


    The Patriots won the Superbowl with the best defense in the NFL (2 points per game less given up than 2nd place), the Packers made the NFC championship with the 25th ranked defense (almost averaging 10 more points per game than NE.) Brady isn't 100% accountable for NEs wins, but Rodgers is.
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  • Poncier
    Poncier Posts: 17,947
    edited February 2017
    ehbacon said:

    Poncier said:

    ehbacon said:

    No quarterback has ever had the consistent pin point accuracy and effortless arm strength that Aaron Rodgers has. Add that with being very agile, the best presence and escapability jn the pocket when need be, and the best at throwing on the run and you have undoubtedly the greatest quarterback of all time.

    Brady does not have the accuracy Rodgers has. He has really good accuracy, but he also has an outstanding receiving core that always get open. Brady doesn't have near the arm strength Rodgers does, that's not even debatable. Brady is also not at all quick, good in the pocket, or good at throwing on the run.

    People say Brady has great leadership skills, but Rodgers literally just carried a mediocre team on his back for 8 weeks. Remember that game winning drive against Dallas? That was all Rodgers playcalling. MM just gave him the authority to call the drive. The pass the Richard Rodgers wasn't even a designed play, Rodgers drew it up in the huddle on his hand, telling everyone what to do (Randall Cobb said that after the game).

    If Brady is a Packer we wouldn't be close to as good as we are and have been with Rodgers.

    Brady's ability to read a defense is miles ahead of Rodgers'.

    And Brady's "not good in the pocket"? Are you serious? His ability to move in the pocket without the god given foot speed of Rodgers is another check mark in his favor.
    So you are conceding that Rodgers has better accuracy, arm strength, speed, and ability to throw on the run? Also seems like you are conceding that Rodgers is better in the pocket, but that's only because of "God given" foot speed. So to me that's 5 checks for Rodgers and 1 for Brady.

    Another point for Rodgers is his ability to catch defenses offsides and with 12 men on the field, the Packers alone have more free plays than the rest of the NFL combined (I think, I know the lead is insurmountable).


    So that's 6 points for Rodgers, 1 for Brady (and really i could dispute that point, but I'll let you have it.)
    I didn't concede anything just countered a couple of points.

    Jeff George had as strong an arm as anybody to ever play the game, should we consider him for one of the all time greats?
    Michael Vick could run circles around Aaron Wroggers, should we put him up there too?

    Brady is #1 all time, Wroggers is maybe top 5, if he can win another title.
    The most important weapon in a QB's arsenal is his brain, which is why Brady and Montana are the top 2 all time.

    This argument you are posting is similar to the Montana vs Marino arguments of 30 yrs ago. Marino had the stronger arm, put up bigger numbers, so maybe you could say he was a better pure passer, but Montana was the better QB by a longshot.

    So I'll give you that the guy who refused to bang Michelle Beadle (is that a check mark in his favor?) may be a better pure passer than Brady, but he is not and will never be a better quarterback.
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  • Poncier
    Poncier Posts: 17,947
    ehbacon said:

    Brady isn't 100% accountable for NEs wins, but Rodgers is.

    I must have missed where Aaron Rodgers toe tapped on the sideline then kicked the ensuing field goal in Dallas.
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  • ehbacon
    ehbacon Posts: 1,972
    Poncier said:

    ehbacon said:

    Brady isn't 100% accountable for NEs wins, but Rodgers is.

    I must have missed where Aaron Rodgers toe tapped on the sideline then kicked the ensuing field goal in Dallas.
    The play that Aaron Rodgers drew up on his hands seconds before hand, then delivered the most perfect pass possible on the run to win the game? Yeah that was a great play indeed
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  • ehbacon
    ehbacon Posts: 1,972
    Aaron Rodgers revolutionized the game as a QB. He mastered the Hail Mary, mastered getting free plays, and mastered the art of the scramble; things that no QB has ever done, period.

    If Aaron Rodgers is on the Patriots, the Patriots wouldn't have had to make a comeback yesterday. Brady is so slow and terrible at scrambling that when they pressured him he was stuck, and couldn't do anything.
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  • Wma31394
    Wma31394 Posts: 3,045
    ehbacon said:

    Aaron Rodgers revolutionized the game as a QB. He mastered the Hail Mary, mastered getting free plays, and mastered the art of the scramble; things that no QB has ever done, period.

    If Aaron Rodgers is on the Patriots, the Patriots wouldn't have had to make a comeback yesterday. Brady is so slow and terrible at scrambling that when they pressured him he was stuck, and couldn't do anything.

    Mastered a hall Mary? There's a reason its called a hail Mary. Perhaps your young or just started watching football but he hardly mastered the free play. Qbs have been doing it for ages..elway perhaps the best. Scramble?? Does Steve young ring a bell?

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,803
    ehbacon said:

    Aaron Rodgers revolutionized the game as a QB. He mastered the Hail Mary, mastered getting free plays, and mastered the art of the scramble; things that no QB has ever done, period.

    If Aaron Rodgers is on the Patriots, the Patriots wouldn't have had to make a comeback yesterday. Brady is so slow and terrible at scrambling that when they pressured him he was stuck, and couldn't do anything.

    Now I've heard it all, And that folks, is why the Patriots lost the Super Bowl.
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  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,605
    Aaron Rodgers revolutionized the game as a QB? :confused:
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  • Poncier
    Poncier Posts: 17,947
    Fran Tarkenton was apparently a stationary QB since nobody could scramble until Aaron Rodgers showed us how its done.
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  • eeriepadave
    eeriepadave West Chester, PA Posts: 43,421
    :lol:
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  • SmallestOceans
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  • ehbacon
    ehbacon Posts: 1,972
    edited February 2017
    Wma31394 said:

    ehbacon said:

    Aaron Rodgers revolutionized the game as a QB. He mastered the Hail Mary, mastered getting free plays, and mastered the art of the scramble; things that no QB has ever done, period.

    If Aaron Rodgers is on the Patriots, the Patriots wouldn't have had to make a comeback yesterday. Brady is so slow and terrible at scrambling that when they pressured him he was stuck, and couldn't do anything.

    Mastered a hall Mary? There's a reason its called a hail Mary. Perhaps your young or just started watching football but he hardly mastered the free play. Qbs have been doing it for ages..elway perhaps the best. Scramble?? Does Steve young ring a bell?

    I've been watching football ever since i was born. Sure the free play existed, and Rodgers isn't the first QB to use it, but he is by far the first to weaponize it. And he sure as hell has mastered the hail mary. It's all about the arc. He's 3/5 in his career, far better than anyone in the history of the NFL. In the last two seasons, Aaron Rodgers is 5/8 on 30+ yard throws with under a minute remaining in play, the rest of the NFL was 4/44.
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    ehbacon said:

    Aaron Rodgers revolutionized the game as a QB. He mastered the Hail Mary, mastered getting free plays, and mastered the art of the scramble; things that no QB has ever done, period.

    If Aaron Rodgers is on the Patriots, the Patriots wouldn't have had to make a comeback yesterday. Brady is so slow and terrible at scrambling that when they pressured him he was stuck, and couldn't do anything.

    Now I've heard it all, And that folks, is why the Patriots lost the Super Bowl.
    The reason their offense couldn't perform in the start was because Brady was pressured. He didn't have time in the pocket, and he's terrible at scrambling, that's a fact. When they pressured Brady, the Patriots only put up 3 points. Then in the second half they started to go into prevent, no pressure, Brady had time. Then their defense was constantly on the field, so even when they tried bringing pressure it was not as fast as before, more time again for Brady. That's the reason their offense got better; Brady can't do anything when he has little time in the pocket.
    JimmyV said:

    Aaron Rodgers revolutionized the game as a QB? :confused:

    I'd say much more than Brady has. What is different about Brady? Nothing really. He's really good at everything you expect a quarterback to be good at. Rodgers is really good at everything expected and beyond.


    People put too much thought of success when measuring talent. Rodgers is the better quarterback, and anyone who thinks otherwise is either unintelligent or just can't get over their post super bowl hard on for Brady.
    Post edited by ehbacon on
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  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,605
    ehbacon said:

    Wma31394 said:

    ehbacon said:

    Aaron Rodgers revolutionized the game as a QB. He mastered the Hail Mary, mastered getting free plays, and mastered the art of the scramble; things that no QB has ever done, period.

    If Aaron Rodgers is on the Patriots, the Patriots wouldn't have had to make a comeback yesterday. Brady is so slow and terrible at scrambling that when they pressured him he was stuck, and couldn't do anything.

    Mastered a hall Mary? There's a reason its called a hail Mary. Perhaps your young or just started watching football but he hardly mastered the free play. Qbs have been doing it for ages..elway perhaps the best. Scramble?? Does Steve young ring a bell?

    I've been watching football ever since i was born. Sure the free play existed, and Rodgers isn't the first QB to use it, but he is by far the first to weaponize it. And he sure as hell has mastered the hail mary. It's all about the arc. He's 3/5 in his career, far better than anyone in the history of the NFL. In the last two seasons, Aaron Rodgers is 5/8 on 30+ yard throws with under a minute remaining in play, the rest of the NFL was 4/44.
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    ehbacon said:

    Aaron Rodgers revolutionized the game as a QB. He mastered the Hail Mary, mastered getting free plays, and mastered the art of the scramble; things that no QB has ever done, period.

    If Aaron Rodgers is on the Patriots, the Patriots wouldn't have had to make a comeback yesterday. Brady is so slow and terrible at scrambling that when they pressured him he was stuck, and couldn't do anything.

    Now I've heard it all, And that folks, is why the Patriots lost the Super Bowl.
    The reason their offense couldn't perform in the start was because Brady was pressured. He didn't have time in the pocket, and he's terrible at scrambling, that's a fact. When they pressured Brady, the Patriots only put up 3 points. Then in the second half they started to go into prevent, no pressure, Brady had time. Then their defense was constantly on the field, so even when they tried bringing pressure it was not as fast as before, more time again for Brady. That's the reason their offense got better; Brady can't do anything when he has little time in the pocket.
    JimmyV said:

    Aaron Rodgers revolutionized the game as a QB? :confused:

    I'd say much more than Brady has. What is different about Brady? Nothing really. He's really good at everything you expect a quarterback to be good at. Rodgers is really good at everything expected and beyond.


    People put too much thought of success when measuring talent. Rodgers is the better quarterback, and anyone who thinks otherwise is either unintelligent or just can't get over their post super bowl hard on for Brady.
    Unintelligent? Whether Rodgers has "revolutionized" the game as a QB has nothing to do with Tom Brady.

    Aaron Rodgers is very good. To say he revolutionized anything is an overstatement.
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,803
    Let me know when Aaron has played in 7 Super Bowls and won 5. I believe if you compare their stats for comparable years, 2005-2016, you'll see Brady had better numbers, including when they went head to head. Who gives a shit whether a QB can scramble or throw a Hail Mary? Wins are what matter, particularly Super Bowl wins. Just ask Marino. Brady is the better quarterback. Period.
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  • ehbacon
    ehbacon Posts: 1,972
    edited February 2017
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    Let me know when Aaron has played in 7 Super Bowls and won 5. I believe if you compare their stats for comparable years, 2005-2016, you'll see Brady had better numbers, including when they went head to head. Who gives a shit whether a QB can scramble or throw a Hail Mary? Wins are what matter, particularly Super Bowl wins. Just ask Marino. Brady is the better quarterback. Period.

    how are those comparable years? Rodgers wasn't a starter until 2008.

    Who cares about wins!!! This is not the most successful quarterback of all time discussion. This is the GREATEST quarterback of all time discussion.
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,803
    ehbacon said:

    Halifax2TheMax said:

    Let me know when Aaron has played in 7 Super Bowls and won 5. I believe if you compare their stats for comparable years, 2005-2016, you'll see Brady had better numbers, including when they went head to head. Who gives a shit whether a QB can scramble or throw a Hail Mary? Wins are what matter, particularly Super Bowl wins. Just ask Marino. Brady is the better quarterback. Period.

    how are those comparable years? Rodgers wasn't a starter until 2008.

    Who cares about wins!!! This is not the most successful quarterback of all time discussion. This is the GREATEST quarterback of all time discussion.
    Okay, compare from 2008 to 2016. Aaron Rodgers will be but a footnote to the game. Who cares about wins? The whole team's organization and its fan base. It's why they play the game. And the GREATEST is Tom Brady.
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  • ehbacon
    ehbacon Posts: 1,972
    edited February 2017
    Let's compare stats since Aaron Rodgers has become a starter (I will substitute Brady's 2007 stats for his 2008 stats since he didn't play that year.)


    Aaron Rodgers
    Passing:

    Games Played: 135
    Pass Attempts: 4,598
    Pass Completions: 2,999
    Pass Percentage: 65.22%
    Yards: 36,498
    Yards Per Pass: 7.94
    40+ Yard Passes: 103
    Touchdowns: 296
    Touchdowns Per Game: 2.19
    Interceptions: 71
    Attempts Per Interception: 64.76
    Average QB Rating: 104.74

    Rushing:

    Rushing Attempts: 490
    Rushing Yards: 2497
    Yards Per Attempt: 5.10
    Rushing Touchdowns: 25
    Fumbles: 15


    Tom Brady

    Passing:

    Games Played: 140
    Pass Attempts: 5,149
    Pass Completions: 3,341
    Pass Percentage: 64.89%
    Yards: 39,942
    Yards Per Pass: 7.76
    40+ Yard Passes: 94
    Touchdowns: 309
    Touchdowns Per Game: 2.21
    Interceptions: 74
    Attempts Per Interception: 69.58
    Average QB Rating: 103.09

    Rushing:

    Rushing Attempts: 293
    Rushing Yards: 505
    Yards Per Attempt: 1.72
    Rushing Touchdowns: 14
    Fumbles: 11



    ***NOTE***
    Works Cited:
    Aaron Rodgers - http://www.nfl.com/player/aaronrodgers/2506363/careerstats
    Tom Brady - http://www.nfl.com/player/tombrady/2504211/careerstats

    - Tom Brady's first year as a starter was in 2001. He had 6 season of starting before 2007, and his stats were not impressive those 6 season. This is important because in my opinion an even more fair comparison would be using those stats, because Rodgers stats start directly when he became a starter, unlike Brady who had 6 mediocre seasons that were unaccounted for.
    - Understand that the "Average QB Passer Rating" is not the same thing as the total passer rating for the mentioned seasons. I could not find that stat for either QB and I don't have the available stats or time to calculate it (I would have to factor in each play of all of the mentioned seasons for each QB in the calculations.)
    - I tried to put in as much perspective as I could. There were differences in numbers of games and attempts and stuff like that, so I tried to put as many averages as I could.
    Post edited by ehbacon on
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