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BS44325

benjs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Woa! Woa! Woa! Because that's what I do. I print my name, I sign my name. And then when, I sing the pledge of allegiance. Because going to a wedding and entering a country are the same. Are you usually this misinformed? Or just hateful? Be honest.

Halifax, I mean this honestly: treating people who feel differently than you this poorly is not productive to showing them why they shouldn't. This goes for the Trump debates, but also any other topic in life, and there are a few prerequisites which without them, you're going to have a hard time changing minds

1. Don't attack character. If someone calls me a Nazi sympathizer and I'm not, that person's credibility is lost in my eyes, because I feel they fallaciously make conclusions.
2. Don't make a battle out of a debate. If both of your objectives are truth and not war, then exposed knowledge which adds to a pile of data on which to pass judgment can only be a positive. Don't let winning be the objective, it must be discovery of the truth.
3. Recognize the bias you have inherited, and that there is no shame in needing to consciously strip your opinions of the biases within you in order to reassess the truth of your opinions. It is not an attack to be reminded of bias.
4. Just be respectful. We're living things here.

I'm sorry if you find this preachy, but I've found these to be things absent by and large in this community. I've probably forgotten them from time to time too but am trying to be more cognizant of them.

Well said Benjs and if you don't mind I would like to one more...

5. Papa don't preach

dignin said:

benjs said:

dignin said:

benjs said:

dignin said:

benjs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Woa! Woa! Woa! Because that's what I do. I print my name, I sign my name. And then when, I sing the pledge of allegiance. Because going to a wedding and entering a country are the same. Are you usually this misinformed? Or just hateful? Be honest.

Halifax, I mean this honestly: treating people who feel differently than you this poorly is not productive to showing them why they shouldn't. This goes for the Trump debates, but also any other topic in life, and there are a few prerequisites which without them, you're going to have a hard time changing minds

1. Don't attack character. If someone calls me a Nazi sympathizer and I'm not, that person's credibility is lost in my eyes, because I feel they fallaciously make conclusions.
2. Don't make a battle out of a debate. If both of your objectives are truth and not war, then exposed knowledge which adds to a pile of data on which to pass judgment can only be a positive. Don't let winning be the objective, it must be discovery of the truth.
3. Recognize the bias you have inherited, and that there is no shame in needing to consciously strip your opinions of the biases within you in order to reassess the truth of your opinions. It is not an attack to be reminded of bias.
4. Just be respectful. We're living things here.

I'm sorry if you find this preachy, but I've found these to be things absent by and large in this community. I've probably forgotten them from time to time too but am trying to be more cognizant of them.

I realize you are trying to help, and that's good but I don't think you have been paying attention. You are missing more than half of the equation.

I personally appreciate Halifax for calling out the bullshit when he sees it. I have learned a lot.

I'm all for calling out bullshit, but first you have to qualify whether the person you're talking to has malicious intent and is trying to dispel bullshit, or whether they believe what they are saying. If they believe it, they are simply stating their case the way you or I do. If this is the case, equating them to people of questionable character or intellect is just not called for. If they don't believe it, why not just present the ill logic their statements are predicated upon?

In either case, as soon as emotions come into play, you've given a valid opportunity to the person you're debating with to just deflect by accurately pointing out that you are resorting to fallacious attacks. In no way, shape or form have I proposed not calling out bullshit. I've simply said that there's a right way and a wrong way to do so.

I put in bold this part of your response because it gets to the heart of the matter.

The poster who Halifax was responding to clearly is trying to spread misinformation and just plain bullshit. Many on this forum have pointed it out. When called out said poster moves on to more bullshit. Always a moving target and always trying to confuse and muddy the waters. A tactic learned, I can only assume, from Trump himself.

I agree it would be best if we could leave most emotion out of it for a more clear picture and better debate, but then this place would be boring if it was all gone. It's the passion I see here, and the new information I learn, that keeps me coming back. Emotion and passion can lead to an invigorating debate.

I really don't agree. I'm confident that BS believes what he writes here, and I say that as someone who disagrees with much of what he posts.

Whoosh. Not talking about BS. Thought that was clear.

Appreciate that dignin. I do believe what I write on here. Thanks for the defense Benjs but I am ok with the way others come at me. When you jump into the lion's den you should expect to get some scratches.

Halifax2TheMax

So much for it being "obama's law or registry." Key phrase, "abandoned by the Obama Administration."

https://www.democracynow.org/2016/12/23/redundant_and_inefficient_obama_administration_dismantles

JC29856

Most of the hysterical Obama apologists so quick to scream about Trump policies that Obama had in place still haven't realized that they are still being fooled by the media 3 months after the election like they were the 6 months leading up to the election.

dignin said:

JC29856 said:

dignin said:

JC29856 said:

Google aclu and Obama...while the righteous were drooling the aclu fought Obama tooth and nail over visa bans and deportation.

But Obama Obama Obama.

This is the muddy waters I'm talking about. If you were upset about what Obama was doing back then, I don't remember hearing about it from you then. But it works for you now. If you were upset about it then, you should be happy that people are upset about it now. They are on your side now.

I don't believe for one second you give a shit.

You want me to go find my posts to jog your memory? I'll update this post shortly...

Just 4 years ago



Options
JC29856JC29856 Posts: 6,671
September 2012 Flag
I didn't post it in its entirety or name the speaker to avoid bias. The question is do you agree with it or not (ignoring who wrote or delivered it)?

I would throw our recent presidents in the murderous, ethnic cleansing ignoring, (define madman) suppression of people vs corporations and deny certain faiths (Islam) category too.

I see you don't like Obama here, no surprise. Looking for the Muslim ban part, but that's not the point.

Even if you were screaming about it then, why not be happy that people are aware of it now and are fighting for your cause?

Instead you just chastise the people pissed at it now. Congratulations, you are the most self-righteous of all.

Now maybe you can move on and work to hold this current president accountable, the people are with you.

1. Check again...you will find posts giving Obama credit where do
2. You missed my post about trump bombing nations then not allowing them refuge here.

I can't continue to prove you more wrong.

dignin

BS44325 said:

benjs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Woa! Woa! Woa! Because that's what I do. I print my name, I sign my name. And then when, I sing the pledge of allegiance. Because going to a wedding and entering a country are the same. Are you usually this misinformed? Or just hateful? Be honest.

Halifax, I mean this honestly: treating people who feel differently than you this poorly is not productive to showing them why they shouldn't. This goes for the Trump debates, but also any other topic in life, and there are a few prerequisites which without them, you're going to have a hard time changing minds

1. Don't attack character. If someone calls me a Nazi sympathizer and I'm not, that person's credibility is lost in my eyes, because I feel they fallaciously make conclusions.
2. Don't make a battle out of a debate. If both of your objectives are truth and not war, then exposed knowledge which adds to a pile of data on which to pass judgment can only be a positive. Don't let winning be the objective, it must be discovery of the truth.
3. Recognize the bias you have inherited, and that there is no shame in needing to consciously strip your opinions of the biases within you in order to reassess the truth of your opinions. It is not an attack to be reminded of bias.
4. Just be respectful. We're living things here.

I'm sorry if you find this preachy, but I've found these to be things absent by and large in this community. I've probably forgotten them from time to time too but am trying to be more cognizant of them.

Well said Benjs and if you don't mind I would like to one more...

5. Papa don't preach

dignin said:

benjs said:

dignin said:

benjs said:

dignin said:

benjs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Woa! Woa! Woa! Because that's what I do. I print my name, I sign my name. And then when, I sing the pledge of allegiance. Because going to a wedding and entering a country are the same. Are you usually this misinformed? Or just hateful? Be honest.

Halifax, I mean this honestly: treating people who feel differently than you this poorly is not productive to showing them why they shouldn't. This goes for the Trump debates, but also any other topic in life, and there are a few prerequisites which without them, you're going to have a hard time changing minds

1. Don't attack character. If someone calls me a Nazi sympathizer and I'm not, that person's credibility is lost in my eyes, because I feel they fallaciously make conclusions.
2. Don't make a battle out of a debate. If both of your objectives are truth and not war, then exposed knowledge which adds to a pile of data on which to pass judgment can only be a positive. Don't let winning be the objective, it must be discovery of the truth.
3. Recognize the bias you have inherited, and that there is no shame in needing to consciously strip your opinions of the biases within you in order to reassess the truth of your opinions. It is not an attack to be reminded of bias.
4. Just be respectful. We're living things here.

I'm sorry if you find this preachy, but I've found these to be things absent by and large in this community. I've probably forgotten them from time to time too but am trying to be more cognizant of them.

I realize you are trying to help, and that's good but I don't think you have been paying attention. You are missing more than half of the equation.

I personally appreciate Halifax for calling out the bullshit when he sees it. I have learned a lot.

I'm all for calling out bullshit, but first you have to qualify whether the person you're talking to has malicious intent and is trying to dispel bullshit, or whether they believe what they are saying. If they believe it, they are simply stating their case the way you or I do. If this is the case, equating them to people of questionable character or intellect is just not called for. If they don't believe it, why not just present the ill logic their statements are predicated upon?

In either case, as soon as emotions come into play, you've given a valid opportunity to the person you're debating with to just deflect by accurately pointing out that you are resorting to fallacious attacks. In no way, shape or form have I proposed not calling out bullshit. I've simply said that there's a right way and a wrong way to do so.

I put in bold this part of your response because it gets to the heart of the matter.

The poster who Halifax was responding to clearly is trying to spread misinformation and just plain bullshit. Many on this forum have pointed it out. When called out said poster moves on to more bullshit. Always a moving target and always trying to confuse and muddy the waters. A tactic learned, I can only assume, from Trump himself.

I agree it would be best if we could leave most emotion out of it for a more clear picture and better debate, but then this place would be boring if it was all gone. It's the passion I see here, and the new information I learn, that keeps me coming back. Emotion and passion can lead to an invigorating debate.

I really don't agree. I'm confident that BS believes what he writes here, and I say that as someone who disagrees with much of what he posts.

Whoosh. Not talking about BS. Thought that was clear.

Appreciate that dignin. I do believe what I write on here. Thanks for the defense Benjs but I am ok with the way others come at me. When you jump into the lion's den you should expect to get some scratches.

I disagree with you on almost everything BS, but I do believe you mean what you say and it's always fun to spar with you here. You even have a good point from time to time.

dignin

JC29856 said:

Most of the hysterical Obama apologists so quick to scream about Trump policies that Obama had in place still haven't realized that they are still being fooled by the media 3 months after the election like they were the 6 months leading up to the election.

dignin said:

JC29856 said:

dignin said:

JC29856 said:

Google aclu and Obama...while the righteous were drooling the aclu fought Obama tooth and nail over visa bans and deportation.

But Obama Obama Obama.

This is the muddy waters I'm talking about. If you were upset about what Obama was doing back then, I don't remember hearing about it from you then. But it works for you now. If you were upset about it then, you should be happy that people are upset about it now. They are on your side now.

I don't believe for one second you give a shit.

You want me to go find my posts to jog your memory? I'll update this post shortly...

Just 4 years ago



Options
JC29856JC29856 Posts: 6,671
September 2012 Flag
I didn't post it in its entirety or name the speaker to avoid bias. The question is do you agree with it or not (ignoring who wrote or delivered it)?

I would throw our recent presidents in the murderous, ethnic cleansing ignoring, (define madman) suppression of people vs corporations and deny certain faiths (Islam) category too.

I see you don't like Obama here, no surprise. Looking for the Muslim ban part, but that's not the point.

Even if you were screaming about it then, why not be happy that people are aware of it now and are fighting for your cause?

Instead you just chastise the people pissed at it now. Congratulations, you are the most self-righteous of all.

Now maybe you can move on and work to hold this current president accountable, the people are with you.

1. Check again...you will find posts giving Obama credit where do
2. You missed my post about trump bombing nations then not allowing them refuge here.

I can't continue to prove you more wrong.

Funny, I don't feel hysterical. Maybe I need to go see a doctor to get that looked at.

And no surprise that you avoided the point. Let go of your anger, you're not alone anymore, were on your side now. Solidarity comrade.

BS44325

dignin said:

BS44325 said:

benjs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Woa! Woa! Woa! Because that's what I do. I print my name, I sign my name. And then when, I sing the pledge of allegiance. Because going to a wedding and entering a country are the same. Are you usually this misinformed? Or just hateful? Be honest.

Halifax, I mean this honestly: treating people who feel differently than you this poorly is not productive to showing them why they shouldn't. This goes for the Trump debates, but also any other topic in life, and there are a few prerequisites which without them, you're going to have a hard time changing minds

1. Don't attack character. If someone calls me a Nazi sympathizer and I'm not, that person's credibility is lost in my eyes, because I feel they fallaciously make conclusions.
2. Don't make a battle out of a debate. If both of your objectives are truth and not war, then exposed knowledge which adds to a pile of data on which to pass judgment can only be a positive. Don't let winning be the objective, it must be discovery of the truth.
3. Recognize the bias you have inherited, and that there is no shame in needing to consciously strip your opinions of the biases within you in order to reassess the truth of your opinions. It is not an attack to be reminded of bias.
4. Just be respectful. We're living things here.

I'm sorry if you find this preachy, but I've found these to be things absent by and large in this community. I've probably forgotten them from time to time too but am trying to be more cognizant of them.

Well said Benjs and if you don't mind I would like to one more...

5. Papa don't preach

dignin said:

benjs said:

dignin said:

benjs said:

dignin said:

benjs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Woa! Woa! Woa! Because that's what I do. I print my name, I sign my name. And then when, I sing the pledge of allegiance. Because going to a wedding and entering a country are the same. Are you usually this misinformed? Or just hateful? Be honest.

Halifax, I mean this honestly: treating people who feel differently than you this poorly is not productive to showing them why they shouldn't. This goes for the Trump debates, but also any other topic in life, and there are a few prerequisites which without them, you're going to have a hard time changing minds

1. Don't attack character. If someone calls me a Nazi sympathizer and I'm not, that person's credibility is lost in my eyes, because I feel they fallaciously make conclusions.
2. Don't make a battle out of a debate. If both of your objectives are truth and not war, then exposed knowledge which adds to a pile of data on which to pass judgment can only be a positive. Don't let winning be the objective, it must be discovery of the truth.
3. Recognize the bias you have inherited, and that there is no shame in needing to consciously strip your opinions of the biases within you in order to reassess the truth of your opinions. It is not an attack to be reminded of bias.
4. Just be respectful. We're living things here.

I'm sorry if you find this preachy, but I've found these to be things absent by and large in this community. I've probably forgotten them from time to time too but am trying to be more cognizant of them.

I realize you are trying to help, and that's good but I don't think you have been paying attention. You are missing more than half of the equation.

I personally appreciate Halifax for calling out the bullshit when he sees it. I have learned a lot.

I'm all for calling out bullshit, but first you have to qualify whether the person you're talking to has malicious intent and is trying to dispel bullshit, or whether they believe what they are saying. If they believe it, they are simply stating their case the way you or I do. If this is the case, equating them to people of questionable character or intellect is just not called for. If they don't believe it, why not just present the ill logic their statements are predicated upon?

In either case, as soon as emotions come into play, you've given a valid opportunity to the person you're debating with to just deflect by accurately pointing out that you are resorting to fallacious attacks. In no way, shape or form have I proposed not calling out bullshit. I've simply said that there's a right way and a wrong way to do so.

I put in bold this part of your response because it gets to the heart of the matter.

The poster who Halifax was responding to clearly is trying to spread misinformation and just plain bullshit. Many on this forum have pointed it out. When called out said poster moves on to more bullshit. Always a moving target and always trying to confuse and muddy the waters. A tactic learned, I can only assume, from Trump himself.

I agree it would be best if we could leave most emotion out of it for a more clear picture and better debate, but then this place would be boring if it was all gone. It's the passion I see here, and the new information I learn, that keeps me coming back. Emotion and passion can lead to an invigorating debate.

I really don't agree. I'm confident that BS believes what he writes here, and I say that as someone who disagrees with much of what he posts.

Whoosh. Not talking about BS. Thought that was clear.

Appreciate that dignin. I do believe what I write on here. Thanks for the defense Benjs but I am ok with the way others come at me. When you jump into the lion's den you should expect to get some scratches.

I disagree with you on almost everything BS, but I do believe you mean what you say and it's always fun to spar with you here. You even have a good point from time to time.

Shhhhhh! Not so loud! BS must not be normalized!

JC29856

JC29856 said:

We obliterate country after country in the name of democracy, then tell those fleeing you're not welcome here! USA! USA! USA!

U.S. President Donald Trump is expected to sign several executive orders on Wednesday restricting immigration from Syria and six other Middle Eastern or African countries, according to several congressional aides and immigration experts briefed on the matter.

In addition to Syria, Trump's orders are expected to temporarily restrict access to the United States for most refugees. Another order will block visas from being issued to those from Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen, said the aides and experts, who asked not to be identified.

This kinda flies in the face of the cheerleaders here!
TAILTUCK

JC29856

dignin said:

JC29856 said:

Most of the hysterical Obama apologists so quick to scream about Trump policies that Obama had in place still haven't realized that they are still being fooled by the media 3 months after the election like they were the 6 months leading up to the election.

dignin said:

JC29856 said:

dignin said:

JC29856 said:

Google aclu and Obama...while the righteous were drooling the aclu fought Obama tooth and nail over visa bans and deportation.

But Obama Obama Obama.

This is the muddy waters I'm talking about. If you were upset about what Obama was doing back then, I don't remember hearing about it from you then. But it works for you now. If you were upset about it then, you should be happy that people are upset about it now. They are on your side now.

I don't believe for one second you give a shit.

You want me to go find my posts to jog your memory? I'll update this post shortly...

Just 4 years ago



Options
JC29856JC29856 Posts: 6,671
September 2012 Flag
I didn't post it in its entirety or name the speaker to avoid bias. The question is do you agree with it or not (ignoring who wrote or delivered it)?

I would throw our recent presidents in the murderous, ethnic cleansing ignoring, (define madman) suppression of people vs corporations and deny certain faiths (Islam) category too.

I see you don't like Obama here, no surprise. Looking for the Muslim ban part, but that's not the point.

Even if you were screaming about it then, why not be happy that people are aware of it now and are fighting for your cause?

Instead you just chastise the people pissed at it now. Congratulations, you are the most self-righteous of all.

Now maybe you can move on and work to hold this current president accountable, the people are with you.

1. Check again...you will find posts giving Obama credit where do
2. You missed my post about trump bombing nations then not allowing them refuge here.

I can't continue to prove you more wrong.

Funny, I don't feel hysterical. Maybe I need to go see a doctor to get that looked at.

And no surprise that you avoided the point. Let go of your anger, you're not alone anymore, were on your side now. Solidarity comrade.

"I think you won but I enjoyed the fight"

Halifax2TheMax

And the law that our resident professor cited was introduced by a republican congressman and passed by a republican house and senate as part of a trillion dollar tax and spending package.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acts_of_the_114th_United_States_Congress

I would hardly characterize this as "Obama's law." And once passed, did Obama's DHS immediately enforce it, leading to similar chaos that Trump's actions caused? False equivalency. The least you can do is own Trump's actions. You own it. And about those numbers, JC? Obama raised the number of immigrants allowed in in his final year of office from 70,000 to 110,000 probably because he saw the writing on the wall. This is just the beginning. You trump supporters own it.

dignin

JC29856 said:

dignin said:

JC29856 said:

Most of the hysterical Obama apologists so quick to scream about Trump policies that Obama had in place still haven't realized that they are still being fooled by the media 3 months after the election like they were the 6 months leading up to the election.

dignin said:

JC29856 said:

dignin said:

JC29856 said:

Google aclu and Obama...while the righteous were drooling the aclu fought Obama tooth and nail over visa bans and deportation.

But Obama Obama Obama.

This is the muddy waters I'm talking about. If you were upset about what Obama was doing back then, I don't remember hearing about it from you then. But it works for you now. If you were upset about it then, you should be happy that people are upset about it now. They are on your side now.

I don't believe for one second you give a shit.

You want me to go find my posts to jog your memory? I'll update this post shortly...

Just 4 years ago



Options
JC29856JC29856 Posts: 6,671
September 2012 Flag
I didn't post it in its entirety or name the speaker to avoid bias. The question is do you agree with it or not (ignoring who wrote or delivered it)?

I would throw our recent presidents in the murderous, ethnic cleansing ignoring, (define madman) suppression of people vs corporations and deny certain faiths (Islam) category too.

I see you don't like Obama here, no surprise. Looking for the Muslim ban part, but that's not the point.

Even if you were screaming about it then, why not be happy that people are aware of it now and are fighting for your cause?

Instead you just chastise the people pissed at it now. Congratulations, you are the most self-righteous of all.

Now maybe you can move on and work to hold this current president accountable, the people are with you.

1. Check again...you will find posts giving Obama credit where do
2. You missed my post about trump bombing nations then not allowing them refuge here.

I can't continue to prove you more wrong.

Funny, I don't feel hysterical. Maybe I need to go see a doctor to get that looked at.

And no surprise that you avoided the point. Let go of your anger, you're not alone anymore, were on your side now. Solidarity comrade.

"I think you won but I enjoyed the fight"

What fight? Were on the same side comrade. Strength in numbers!

Spiritual_Chaos

She's such a tool.

Weird to see a journalist at Fox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IKHJjgYYjg

JC29856

Halifax2TheMax said:

And the law that our resident professor cited was introduced by a republican congressman and passed by a republican house and senate as part of a trillion dollar tax and spending package.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acts_of_the_114th_United_States_Congress

I would hardly characterize this as "Obama's law." And once passed, did Obama's DHS immediately enforce it, leading to similar chaos that Trump's actions caused? False equivalency. The least you can do is own Trump's actions. You own it. And about those numbers, JC? Obama raised the number of immigrants allowed in in his final year of office from 70,000 to 110,000 probably because he saw the writing on the wall. This is just the beginning. You trump supporters own it.

Who is the resident professor you refer to?

my2hands

JC29856 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

And the law that our resident professor cited was introduced by a republican congressman and passed by a republican house and senate as part of a trillion dollar tax and spending package.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acts_of_the_114th_United_States_Congress

I would hardly characterize this as "Obama's law." And once passed, did Obama's DHS immediately enforce it, leading to similar chaos that Trump's actions caused? False equivalency. The least you can do is own Trump's actions. You own it. And about those numbers, JC? Obama raised the number of immigrants allowed in in his final year of office from 70,000 to 110,000 probably because he saw the writing on the wall. This is just the beginning. You trump supporters own it.

Who is the resident professor you refer to?

sympathizer

my2hands

Are you for the ban or against the ban? Are you pro-refugee or anti-refugee? Do you prefer to build walls or bridges? Do you support LGBTQ rights or not? Do you support Womens rights or not?

This shit isn't rocket science.

vaggar99

my2hands said:

You are either with the Nazi's, or against them. Are you for the ban or against the ban? Are you pro-refugee or anti-refugee? Do you prefer to build walls or bridges? Do you support LGBTQ rights or not? Do you support Womens rights or not?

This shit isn't rocket science.

Trump supporters: Bill grabbed the p too. Let's just give him a chance.

oceaninmyeyes

.

my2hands said:

You are either with the Nazi's, or against them. Are you for the ban or against the ban? Are you pro-refugee or anti-refugee? Do you prefer to build walls or bridges? Do you support LGBTQ rights or not? Do you support Womens rights or not?

This shit isn't rocket science.

yep

vaggar99

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3u9vV5Og1DNZFMyNjcxZXgyVWs
the Great Gatsby

PJfanwillneverleave1

my2hands said:

You are either with the Nazi's, or against them. Are you for the ban or against the ban? Are you pro-refugee or anti-refugee? Do you prefer to build walls or bridges? Do you support LGBTQ rights or not? Do you support Womens rights or not?

This shit isn't rocket science.

Again w/ the nazi stuff?
When you lump everything in that you "should be against" otherwise you are a nazi racist is dumb.
You can lean one way on some things and still be against others that a person does/say.
This whole charade of hitler stuff to parallel President Trump supporters is stupid.
Your country voted in President Trump.
It is your fault, read - the voters who didn't stop him.
This outrage is really getting old. President Trump is doing exactly what he said he would.
It's not rocket science.

BS44325

my2hands said:

JC29856 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

And the law that our resident professor cited was introduced by a republican congressman and passed by a republican house and senate as part of a trillion dollar tax and spending package.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acts_of_the_114th_United_States_Congress

I would hardly characterize this as "Obama's law." And once passed, did Obama's DHS immediately enforce it, leading to similar chaos that Trump's actions caused? False equivalency. The least you can do is own Trump's actions. You own it. And about those numbers, JC? Obama raised the number of immigrants allowed in in his final year of office from 70,000 to 110,000 probably because he saw the writing on the wall. This is just the beginning. You trump supporters own it.

Who is the resident professor you refer to?

Nazi sympathizer

Now that's going to be problematic. You had no problem accepting a free Telluride sticker from me and that's how you want to play it? Low class. Put your money where your mouth is and send it back. You shouldn't be doing business with a Nazi sympathizer.

DarthMaeglin

Could we please stop this nonsense (I'm trying to be polite here) of referring to Trump and his supporters as Hitler and Nazis? I understand the desire not to "normalize" what the current President is doing, but what you're inadvertently doing is minimizing the horrors of what occurred during World War II. Yes, measures are being taken that are extreme in our culture, but 10 million lives were lost in the Holocaust (in addition to soldiers on both sides).

I was going to suggest Stalin as an alternative, but that would minimize the 20 million (mainly his own citizens) that died under his regime.

In this poster's eyes it weakens one's position when such hyperbole is employed, and unnecessarily offends some who might have been sympathetic to your point of view.

Rant finished, with appreciation to those who take this under serious consideration.