1st Women's March January 21, 2017. 3rd Women's March January 19, 2019

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  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 4,729
    dignin said:

    PJPOWER said:

    dignin said:

    PJPOWER said:

    Ms. Haiku said:

    I would prefer to read information from a professional in the field.

    What field is that actually? Medical research, human rights, sociology, maternity?
    I think the point is not the field you or I are professionals in.
    Never claimed I was. One does not have to read this forum if one chooses not to. What's wrong with opening up more dialogue on the subject?

    What's the point of any of these forum discussions on AMT?
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • Ms. Haiku said:

    I would prefer to read information from a professional in the field.

    As I said I have been an RN for a long time. I remember driving past the Operation Rescue's Summer of Mercy protestors in my late teens and giving them the one-finger salute week after week for backing up traffic and making me late for work. I lived in a town that had an abortion doctor, a decent man who put it on the line every day to take care of women, who was gunned down like a dog in his church in front of his family.
    I remember a 3 year old who was abused by "parents" to the point of brain death, coming to the hospital with burn marks on their skin and clawmarks on their genitalia. I spent my shift taking off and putting on splints and suctioning and repositioning.
    I have visited a patient in the poor part of town where the cockroaches were so bad in the dead of winter in the bright sunshine that the walls appeared to moving and I had to shuffle my feet constantly to keep them from crawling up my leg. I have never seen anything like it. On my way out the door, I discovered a two year old on the floor of the living room eating cereal out of box.
    I have a friend who adopted a child she fostered. He came to her from the hospital where he exhibited no brain activity on admission and had a fractured arm and leg. Neither parent would admit abusing him -- he was less than two months old.
    And I assigned a nurse to visit a new mom that the hospital was worried about. The new mom's mother was deemed incompetent to help. The new mom was 12.

    I have family members who got pregnant while in high school and are very much anti-abortion, because it all worked out for them in the long run.
    I have a family member who had a baby with anencephaly and had that baby and devoted herself to his care until he died and she is anti-abortion as well. She would give anything to have another hour with him.
    I have a friend who had a child and had seven miscarriages until she gave up her dreams.
    I have another friend who was drugged and raped and did not get pregnant, who later had a daughter who was drugged and raped and had an abortion.
    I have miscarried two pregnancies that were very much wanted until I was finally successful and had a second child.
    I have a blue triangular shaped bottle in a hutch in my living room that has raised letters on the side that say POISON. I keep it as a reminder of my grandmother who took the poison tablets inside and mixed it with water and used it after sex to try to keep from becoming pregnant. She already had 5 boys and her husband was abusive.

    I can see both sides. It really is more than battling over the legality of a procedure and when it is appropriate. Most peoples lives are more complicated than we could imagine. It really has to be more than just being pro-birth. If those babies are born we are obligated to ensure their safety, their care and their education.If we really want to make abortion rare, we have to do a better job of education, providing birth control, and supporting women's choices. All women's choices. At the moment, women still have the ability to make them. I will fight like hell to make sure that they continue to do so. I marched in memory and in honor of all of them.
    And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
  • dignindignin Posts: 6,918

    Ms. Haiku said:

    I would prefer to read information from a professional in the field.

    As I said I have been an RN for a long time. I remember driving past the Operation Rescue's Summer of Mercy protestors in my late teens and giving them the one-finger salute week after week for backing up traffic and making me late for work. I lived in a town that had an abortion doctor, a decent man who put it on the line every day to take care of women, who was gunned down like a dog in his church in front of his family.
    I remember a 3 year old who was abused by "parents" to the point of brain death, coming to the hospital with burn marks on their skin and clawmarks on their genitalia. I spent my shift taking off and putting on splints and suctioning and repositioning.
    I have visited a patient in the poor part of town where the cockroaches were so bad in the dead of winter in the bright sunshine that the walls appeared to moving and I had to shuffle my feet constantly to keep them from crawling up my leg. I have never seen anything like it. On my way out the door, I discovered a two year old on the floor of the living room eating cereal out of box.
    I have a friend who adopted a child she fostered. He came to her from the hospital where he exhibited no brain activity on admission and had a fractured arm and leg. Neither parent would admit abusing him -- he was less than two months old.
    And I assigned a nurse to visit a new mom that the hospital was worried about. The new mom's mother was deemed incompetent to help. The new mom was 12.

    I have family members who got pregnant while in high school and are very much anti-abortion, because it all worked out for them in the long run.
    I have a family member who had a baby with anencephaly and had that baby and devoted herself to his care until he died and she is anti-abortion as well. She would give anything to have another hour with him.
    I have a friend who had a child and had seven miscarriages until she gave up her dreams.
    I have another friend who was drugged and raped and did not get pregnant, who later had a daughter who was drugged and raped and had an abortion.
    I have miscarried two pregnancies that were very much wanted until I was finally successful and had a second child.
    I have a blue triangular shaped bottle in a hutch in my living room that has raised letters on the side that say POISON. I keep it as a reminder of my grandmother who took the poison tablets inside and mixed it with water and used it after sex to try to keep from becoming pregnant. She already had 5 boys and her husband was abusive.

    I can see both sides. It really is more than battling over the legality of a procedure and when it is appropriate. Most peoples lives are more complicated than we could imagine. It really has to be more than just being pro-birth. If those babies are born we are obligated to ensure their safety, their care and their education.If we really want to make abortion rare, we have to do a better job of education, providing birth control, and supporting women's choices. All women's choices. At the moment, women still have the ability to make them. I will fight like hell to make sure that they continue to do so. I marched in memory and in honor of all of them.
    Powerful stuff.

    I would like to highlight that sentence in your last paragraph and say that I'm sure most pro-life folks would agree with that sentiment but when it comes time to walk the talk they vote for an asshole like Trump and others of his ilk.

    It makes no sense to me.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 7,101
    dignin said:

    Ms. Haiku said:

    I would prefer to read information from a professional in the field.

    As I said I have been an RN for a long time. I remember driving past the Operation Rescue's Summer of Mercy protestors in my late teens and giving them the one-finger salute week after week for backing up traffic and making me late for work. I lived in a town that had an abortion doctor, a decent man who put it on the line every day to take care of women, who was gunned down like a dog in his church in front of his family.
    I remember a 3 year old who was abused by "parents" to the point of brain death, coming to the hospital with burn marks on their skin and clawmarks on their genitalia. I spent my shift taking off and putting on splints and suctioning and repositioning.
    I have visited a patient in the poor part of town where the cockroaches were so bad in the dead of winter in the bright sunshine that the walls appeared to moving and I had to shuffle my feet constantly to keep them from crawling up my leg. I have never seen anything like it. On my way out the door, I discovered a two year old on the floor of the living room eating cereal out of box.
    I have a friend who adopted a child she fostered. He came to her from the hospital where he exhibited no brain activity on admission and had a fractured arm and leg. Neither parent would admit abusing him -- he was less than two months old.
    And I assigned a nurse to visit a new mom that the hospital was worried about. The new mom's mother was deemed incompetent to help. The new mom was 12.

    I have family members who got pregnant while in high school and are very much anti-abortion, because it all worked out for them in the long run.
    I have a family member who had a baby with anencephaly and had that baby and devoted herself to his care until he died and she is anti-abortion as well. She would give anything to have another hour with him.
    I have a friend who had a child and had seven miscarriages until she gave up her dreams.
    I have another friend who was drugged and raped and did not get pregnant, who later had a daughter who was drugged and raped and had an abortion.
    I have miscarried two pregnancies that were very much wanted until I was finally successful and had a second child.
    I have a blue triangular shaped bottle in a hutch in my living room that has raised letters on the side that say POISON. I keep it as a reminder of my grandmother who took the poison tablets inside and mixed it with water and used it after sex to try to keep from becoming pregnant. She already had 5 boys and her husband was abusive.

    I can see both sides. It really is more than battling over the legality of a procedure and when it is appropriate. Most peoples lives are more complicated than we could imagine. It really has to be more than just being pro-birth. If those babies are born we are obligated to ensure their safety, their care and their education.If we really want to make abortion rare, we have to do a better job of education, providing birth control, and supporting women's choices. All women's choices. At the moment, women still have the ability to make them. I will fight like hell to make sure that they continue to do so. I marched in memory and in honor of all of them.
    Powerful stuff.

    I would like to highlight that sentence in your last paragraph and say that I'm sure most pro-life folks would agree with that sentiment but when it comes time to walk the talk they vote for an asshole like Trump and others of his ilk.

    It makes no sense to me.
    Well said ocean. Dignin, my opinion is that the part you highlight is supported by a minority of so called pro-lifers. I see them resist sex ed and access to affordable birth control. There's often a shame vibe after the child is born, where their attitude is that the kid is their responsibility and a consequences of their decisions. They also seem to resent tax money going to kids that weren't planned. It would be hard to tell what proportion of anti-choice people this description includes, but the attitude isn't uncommon.
  • dignindignin Posts: 6,918
    In the largest protest in U.S. history, Americans in 600 cities marched through the streets carrying signs that read, “Really?,” “Not usually a protester but geez,” “This is really bad,” “So bad even introverts are here,” “[internally screaming],” “We f#cked up bigly,” “There will be hell toupee,” “Honestly there are too many problems with this administration to adequately summarize in one sign,” “Literally everything about this is so awful that I have no idea where to even start,” “Donald Trump uses Comic Sans,” “Mike Pence likes Nickelback,” “I’ve seen sturdier cabinets at IKEA,” “Just, ugh,” “I wish this were fake news,” “Trump is an offense to human dignity,” “the gays have had it,” “my Mama don’t like Trump and she likes everyone,” “this is fucked up,” “I can’t believe I left the Soviet Union for this shit,” “I can’t believe we are still protesting this,” “this is our cuntry,” “Sorry world, we will fix this,” “if Britney can make it through 2007, we can make it through this,” “Chin up, fangs out,” “Tits forward,” “Add pumpkin spice to racism so white women will care,” “Unite the states of America,” “We shall overcomb!,” “We are the resistance!,” “free Melania!”

    http://harpers.org/blog/2017/01/weekly-review-2/
  • dignindignin Posts: 6,918

    dignin said:

    Ms. Haiku said:

    I would prefer to read information from a professional in the field.

    As I said I have been an RN for a long time. I remember driving past the Operation Rescue's Summer of Mercy protestors in my late teens and giving them the one-finger salute week after week for backing up traffic and making me late for work. I lived in a town that had an abortion doctor, a decent man who put it on the line every day to take care of women, who was gunned down like a dog in his church in front of his family.
    I remember a 3 year old who was abused by "parents" to the point of brain death, coming to the hospital with burn marks on their skin and clawmarks on their genitalia. I spent my shift taking off and putting on splints and suctioning and repositioning.
    I have visited a patient in the poor part of town where the cockroaches were so bad in the dead of winter in the bright sunshine that the walls appeared to moving and I had to shuffle my feet constantly to keep them from crawling up my leg. I have never seen anything like it. On my way out the door, I discovered a two year old on the floor of the living room eating cereal out of box.
    I have a friend who adopted a child she fostered. He came to her from the hospital where he exhibited no brain activity on admission and had a fractured arm and leg. Neither parent would admit abusing him -- he was less than two months old.
    And I assigned a nurse to visit a new mom that the hospital was worried about. The new mom's mother was deemed incompetent to help. The new mom was 12.

    I have family members who got pregnant while in high school and are very much anti-abortion, because it all worked out for them in the long run.
    I have a family member who had a baby with anencephaly and had that baby and devoted herself to his care until he died and she is anti-abortion as well. She would give anything to have another hour with him.
    I have a friend who had a child and had seven miscarriages until she gave up her dreams.
    I have another friend who was drugged and raped and did not get pregnant, who later had a daughter who was drugged and raped and had an abortion.
    I have miscarried two pregnancies that were very much wanted until I was finally successful and had a second child.
    I have a blue triangular shaped bottle in a hutch in my living room that has raised letters on the side that say POISON. I keep it as a reminder of my grandmother who took the poison tablets inside and mixed it with water and used it after sex to try to keep from becoming pregnant. She already had 5 boys and her husband was abusive.

    I can see both sides. It really is more than battling over the legality of a procedure and when it is appropriate. Most peoples lives are more complicated than we could imagine. It really has to be more than just being pro-birth. If those babies are born we are obligated to ensure their safety, their care and their education.If we really want to make abortion rare, we have to do a better job of education, providing birth control, and supporting women's choices. All women's choices. At the moment, women still have the ability to make them. I will fight like hell to make sure that they continue to do so. I marched in memory and in honor of all of them.
    Powerful stuff.

    I would like to highlight that sentence in your last paragraph and say that I'm sure most pro-life folks would agree with that sentiment but when it comes time to walk the talk they vote for an asshole like Trump and others of his ilk.

    It makes no sense to me.
    Well said ocean. Dignin, my opinion is that the part you highlight is supported by a minority of so called pro-lifers. I see them resist sex ed and access to affordable birth control. There's often a shame vibe after the child is born, where their attitude is that the kid is their responsibility and a consequences of their decisions. They also seem to resent tax money going to kids that weren't planned. It would be hard to tell what proportion of anti-choice people this description includes, but the attitude isn't uncommon.
    You may be right beavs, can't really say I know many people like that. Guess I should say that I would hope they would want those things for everyone.
  • Ms. Haiku said:

    I would prefer to read information from a professional in the field.

    As I said I have been an RN for a long time. I remember driving past the Operation Rescue's Summer of Mercy protestors in my late teens and giving them the one-finger salute week after week for backing up traffic and making me late for work. I lived in a town that had an abortion doctor, a decent man who put it on the line every day to take care of women, who was gunned down like a dog in his church in front of his family.
    I remember a 3 year old who was abused by "parents" to the point of brain death, coming to the hospital with burn marks on their skin and clawmarks on their genitalia. I spent my shift taking off and putting on splints and suctioning and repositioning.
    I have visited a patient in the poor part of town where the cockroaches were so bad in the dead of winter in the bright sunshine that the walls appeared to moving and I had to shuffle my feet constantly to keep them from crawling up my leg. I have never seen anything like it. On my way out the door, I discovered a two year old on the floor of the living room eating cereal out of box.
    I have a friend who adopted a child she fostered. He came to her from the hospital where he exhibited no brain activity on admission and had a fractured arm and leg. Neither parent would admit abusing him -- he was less than two months old.
    And I assigned a nurse to visit a new mom that the hospital was worried about. The new mom's mother was deemed incompetent to help. The new mom was 12.

    I have family members who got pregnant while in high school and are very much anti-abortion, because it all worked out for them in the long run.
    I have a family member who had a baby with anencephaly and had that baby and devoted herself to his care until he died and she is anti-abortion as well. She would give anything to have another hour with him.
    I have a friend who had a child and had seven miscarriages until she gave up her dreams.
    I have another friend who was drugged and raped and did not get pregnant, who later had a daughter who was drugged and raped and had an abortion.
    I have miscarried two pregnancies that were very much wanted until I was finally successful and had a second child.
    I have a blue triangular shaped bottle in a hutch in my living room that has raised letters on the side that say POISON. I keep it as a reminder of my grandmother who took the poison tablets inside and mixed it with water and used it after sex to try to keep from becoming pregnant. She already had 5 boys and her husband was abusive.

    I can see both sides. It really is more than battling over the legality of a procedure and when it is appropriate. Most peoples lives are more complicated than we could imagine. It really has to be more than just being pro-birth. If those babies are born we are obligated to ensure their safety, their care and their education.If we really want to make abortion rare, we have to do a better job of education, providing birth control, and supporting women's choices. All women's choices. At the moment, women still have the ability to make them. I will fight like hell to make sure that they continue to do so. I marched in memory and in honor of all of them.
    Thanks for sharing.
  • dignindignin Posts: 6,918
    I'm A Pro-Life Christian Who Proudly Attended The Women's March

    I want there to be fewer abortions—and that means fighting for birth control access and family-friendly policies.

    I marched because I am not interested in forcing everyone to believe what I believe or making people "follow the rules." But I am interested in showing genuine love and helping to shoulder the burdens of my fellow man, because that's what is actually going to change things. At the end of the day, isn't that what God did for us? He gave us free will and won us over with his love.


    http://www.self.com/story/pro-life-christian-womens-march?utm_source=SELF&utm_medium=fbpost&utm_campaign=syndication
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 6,050


    #ICANTKEEPQUIET
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 14,460
    edited February 2017
    PJPOWER said:

    I'm glad people agree on timelines around abortions, because that aligns with the reality that there is timelines around abortions.

    Yeah, but there is much disagreement about the time in the timelines. My vote is heartbeat=life...the same as for any other human in the "outside world". Technically and scientifically, we are all just a bunch of jumbled together cells comprised mostly of empty space...right?
    at what point do the lungs develop to either breathe on their own or with some kind of help?

    cuz if I recall my public school biology lessons its the lungs that oxygenate the blood to feed cells, including the heart. In addition, is that heart in early development beating on its own or as a jump start consequence to the blood supply from the mother?
    Post edited by mickeyrat on
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 9,492
    edited February 2017
    mickeyrat said:

    PJPOWER said:

    I'm glad people agree on timelines around abortions, because that aligns with the reality that there is timelines around abortions.

    Yeah, but there is much disagreement about the time in the timelines. My vote is heartbeat=life...the same as for any other human in the "outside world". Technically and scientifically, we are all just a bunch of jumbled together cells comprised mostly of empty space...right?
    at what point do the lungs develop to either breathe on their own or with some kind of help?
    Lung development or lack thereof is one of the major things on which viability hinges. That's why a pregnant woman in premature labour is often given steroids, which can help to mature the fetal lungs before they would otherwise be able to function and breathe air. Birth at 24-27 weeks or so will lead to significant breathing difficulty and need or ICU care, intubation, and the like. At 28 weeks and later there are still going to be breathing issues that need medical support.

    The heart beat begins much earlier; by 5 weeks. Clearly that does not denote viability on its own. That heart would cease to beat very quickly if the fetus were delivered then.

    Edit: So if PJPOWER is saying that abortion after the presence of a heartbeat is wrong, then s/he is arguing against all abortion since virtually no woman knows she is pregnant before the heart forms.
    Post edited by oftenreading on
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 14,460

    mickeyrat said:

    PJPOWER said:

    I'm glad people agree on timelines around abortions, because that aligns with the reality that there is timelines around abortions.

    Yeah, but there is much disagreement about the time in the timelines. My vote is heartbeat=life...the same as for any other human in the "outside world". Technically and scientifically, we are all just a bunch of jumbled together cells comprised mostly of empty space...right?
    at what point do the lungs develop to either breathe on their own or with some kind of help?
    Lung development or lack thereof is one of the major things on which viability hinges. That's why a pregnant woman in premature labour is often given steroids, which can help to mature the fetal lungs before they would otherwise be able to function and breathe air. Birth at 24-27 weeks or so will lead to significant breathing difficulty and need or ICU care, intubation, and the like. At 28 weeks and later there are still going to be breathing issues that need medical support.

    The heart beat begins much earlier; by 5 weeks. Clearly that does not denote viability on its own. That heart would cease to beat very quickly if the fetus were delivered then.

    Edit: So if PJPOWER is saying that abortion after the presence of a heartbeat is wrong, then s/he is arguing against all abortion since virtually no woman knows she is pregnant before the heart forms.
    thats my takeaway on their stance
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 14,460
    as for me I am firmly Pro-not my choice or decision to make unless I am directly involved.

    it doesnt fit on a bumper sticker so well.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 20,429
    mickeyrat said:

    as for me I am firmly Pro-not my choice or decision to make unless I am directly involved.

    it doesnt fit on a bumper sticker so well.

    Still good motto !! Like it a lot maybe on a tshirt !!!
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 4,729
    edited February 2017
    mickeyrat said:

    mickeyrat said:

    PJPOWER said:

    I'm glad people agree on timelines around abortions, because that aligns with the reality that there is timelines around abortions.

    Yeah, but there is much disagreement about the time in the timelines. My vote is heartbeat=life...the same as for any other human in the "outside world". Technically and scientifically, we are all just a bunch of jumbled together cells comprised mostly of empty space...right?
    at what point do the lungs develop to either breathe on their own or with some kind of help?
    Lung development or lack thereof is one of the major things on which viability hinges. That's why a pregnant woman in premature labour is often given steroids, which can help to mature the fetal lungs before they would otherwise be able to function and breathe air. Birth at 24-27 weeks or so will lead to significant breathing difficulty and need or ICU care, intubation, and the like. At 28 weeks and later there are still going to be breathing issues that need medical support.

    The heart beat begins much earlier; by 5 weeks. Clearly that does not denote viability on its own. That heart would cease to beat very quickly if the fetus were delivered then.

    Edit: So if PJPOWER is saying that abortion after the presence of a heartbeat is wrong, then s/he is arguing against all abortion since virtually no woman knows she is pregnant before the heart forms.
    thats my takeaway on their stance
    I didn't say heartbeat=viability, I said heartbeat=life. You have the right to disagree with me, not going to hurt my feelings. If you feel that it is okay to end life based on "viability", then so be it. If women want to end a life that is inside of their body, then at this point the law allows that, but you are not going to convince me that it is not a life that is being cut short. I'm not saying that there are not legitimate reasons for cutting lives short sometimes, but let's call it what it is.
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,811
    PJPOWER said:

    mickeyrat said:

    mickeyrat said:

    PJPOWER said:

    I'm glad people agree on timelines around abortions, because that aligns with the reality that there is timelines around abortions.

    Yeah, but there is much disagreement about the time in the timelines. My vote is heartbeat=life...the same as for any other human in the "outside world". Technically and scientifically, we are all just a bunch of jumbled together cells comprised mostly of empty space...right?
    at what point do the lungs develop to either breathe on their own or with some kind of help?
    Lung development or lack thereof is one of the major things on which viability hinges. That's why a pregnant woman in premature labour is often given steroids, which can help to mature the fetal lungs before they would otherwise be able to function and breathe air. Birth at 24-27 weeks or so will lead to significant breathing difficulty and need or ICU care, intubation, and the like. At 28 weeks and later there are still going to be breathing issues that need medical support.

    The heart beat begins much earlier; by 5 weeks. Clearly that does not denote viability on its own. That heart would cease to beat very quickly if the fetus were delivered then.

    Edit: So if PJPOWER is saying that abortion after the presence of a heartbeat is wrong, then s/he is arguing against all abortion since virtually no woman knows she is pregnant before the heart forms.
    thats my takeaway on their stance
    I didn't say heartbeat=viability, I said heartbeat=life. You have the right to disagree with me, not going to hurt my feelings. If you feel that it is okay to end life based on "viability", then so be it. If women want to end a life that is inside of their body, then at this point the law allows that, but you are not going to convince me that it is not a life that is being cut short. I'm not saying that there are not legitimate reasons for cutting lives short sometimes, but let's call it what it is.
    That's an OK opinion to have, as long as you don't misuse scientific knowledge to bolster it, like so many "pro-lifers" do.

    There is no solid scientific consensus on what actually constitutes life, and "new life" is mostly a philosophical issue. The egg and sperm are both alive by most standards, and when they combine they do create a new DNA sequence, which is a critical distinction, but that "new life" is a combination of 2 living cells and the fetus that results is built from the cells and energy of the mother. You could somewhat make the case that all orgamisms on Earth constitute one life, as all are literally a surviving piece of one who came before, and no life is the product of death, which would be the point at which a life ends.

    Deep thoughts lol
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 14,460
    PJPOWER said:

    mickeyrat said:

    mickeyrat said:

    PJPOWER said:

    I'm glad people agree on timelines around abortions, because that aligns with the reality that there is timelines around abortions.

    Yeah, but there is much disagreement about the time in the timelines. My vote is heartbeat=life...the same as for any other human in the "outside world". Technically and scientifically, we are all just a bunch of jumbled together cells comprised mostly of empty space...right?
    at what point do the lungs develop to either breathe on their own or with some kind of help?
    Lung development or lack thereof is one of the major things on which viability hinges. That's why a pregnant woman in premature labour is often given steroids, which can help to mature the fetal lungs before they would otherwise be able to function and breathe air. Birth at 24-27 weeks or so will lead to significant breathing difficulty and need or ICU care, intubation, and the like. At 28 weeks and later there are still going to be breathing issues that need medical support.

    The heart beat begins much earlier; by 5 weeks. Clearly that does not denote viability on its own. That heart would cease to beat very quickly if the fetus were delivered then.

    Edit: So if PJPOWER is saying that abortion after the presence of a heartbeat is wrong, then s/he is arguing against all abortion since virtually no woman knows she is pregnant before the heart forms.
    thats my takeaway on their stance
    I didn't say heartbeat=viability, I said heartbeat=life. You have the right to disagree with me, not going to hurt my feelings. If you feel that it is okay to end life based on "viability", then so be it. If women want to end a life that is inside of their body, then at this point the law allows that, but you are not going to convince me that it is not a life that is being cut short. I'm not saying that there are not legitimate reasons for cutting lives short sometimes, but let's call it what it is.
    legal.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 4,729
    mickeyrat said:

    PJPOWER said:

    mickeyrat said:

    mickeyrat said:

    PJPOWER said:

    I'm glad people agree on timelines around abortions, because that aligns with the reality that there is timelines around abortions.

    Yeah, but there is much disagreement about the time in the timelines. My vote is heartbeat=life...the same as for any other human in the "outside world". Technically and scientifically, we are all just a bunch of jumbled together cells comprised mostly of empty space...right?
    at what point do the lungs develop to either breathe on their own or with some kind of help?
    Lung development or lack thereof is one of the major things on which viability hinges. That's why a pregnant woman in premature labour is often given steroids, which can help to mature the fetal lungs before they would otherwise be able to function and breathe air. Birth at 24-27 weeks or so will lead to significant breathing difficulty and need or ICU care, intubation, and the like. At 28 weeks and later there are still going to be breathing issues that need medical support.

    The heart beat begins much earlier; by 5 weeks. Clearly that does not denote viability on its own. That heart would cease to beat very quickly if the fetus were delivered then.

    Edit: So if PJPOWER is saying that abortion after the presence of a heartbeat is wrong, then s/he is arguing against all abortion since virtually no woman knows she is pregnant before the heart forms.
    thats my takeaway on their stance
    I didn't say heartbeat=viability, I said heartbeat=life. You have the right to disagree with me, not going to hurt my feelings. If you feel that it is okay to end life based on "viability", then so be it. If women want to end a life that is inside of their body, then at this point the law allows that, but you are not going to convince me that it is not a life that is being cut short. I'm not saying that there are not legitimate reasons for cutting lives short sometimes, but let's call it what it is.
    legal.
    As I pointed out in the "the law allows it" point of my comment...
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Washington DCPosts: 6,990
    edited February 2017
    A great thing about the Women’s March is that this movement didn't end on one day. There is a 10 Actions/100 days Campaign.

    1st item, Contact legislatures about concerns. Continue action.

    2nd item, get back together in a "huddle" and touch base on what could be done to continue momentum. Continue action based on feedback and concerns.

    3rd action, attend a Town Hall. I'll attend my first meeting like this on the 26th. I'm very excited!

    The organizers are doing a great job!

    I'm excited for all of the April marches. Anyone attending a march in April (Fire the Fool, Tax, Science, Earth Day) or have something planned for March 8 (Women’s Strike)? I'm definitely going to the March for Science.
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
  • Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Washington DCPosts: 6,990
    It's really cool to read back to the January 21 posts as the march-in-action was revealed on this thread.
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 20,429
    Ms. Haiku said:

    It's really cool to read back to the January 21 posts as the march-in-action was revealed on this thread.

    Hello yeah let's never stop till this human is no longer in control !!!
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Washington DCPosts: 6,990
    The following is a Politics and Prose Facebook Live Teach-In that I "attended" the day before the Women's March. I think it addresses why people marched, and that it was for many different reasons.

    Teach-In: "Women's Rights"
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
  • Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Washington DCPosts: 6,990
    Next Women's March is January 19, 2019. Yay!
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 26,258
    Ms. Haiku said:
    Next Women's March is January 19, 2019. Yay!
    Awesome!  You go, women!
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 20,429
    Good job on not stopping the movement !
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 14,460
    more important march next month. The first Tuesday of November. Starts at about 7 am local and runs through 7 or 8pm local.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat said:
    more important march next month. The first Tuesday of November. Starts at about 7 am local and runs through 7 or 8pm local.
    I look forward to reading about the long lines at the polls in dem precincts and voting irregularities in the 21 states with hackable voting machines. Don’t forget that this repub congress voted down a bill to authorize spending for the states to bolster voting security.
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  • Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Washington DCPosts: 6,990
    edited October 2018
    mickeyrat said:
    more important march next month. The first Tuesday of November.  minStarts at about 7 am local and runs through 7 or 8pm local.
    Yay!

    I vote early usually on Saturday.  I love that option. 
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 26,258
    I support both getting the vote out and the women's March.

    And dedicate this song to both:





    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 16,500
    Well, I'll only be voting for women
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