pipe bomb explodes at military race in new jersey and now a bomb explodes in nyc

Cliffy6745

eddiec said:

Cliffy6745 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Cliffy6745 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Cliffy6745 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Go Beavers said:

bootlegger10 said:

Bentleyspop said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

benjs said:

unsung said:

Clinton wants to increase importation of "refugee" muslims by 500%.

These attacks will only be a more common occurance.

Refugees in quotation marks... Do you refute the fact that they are refugees?

many are useless POS...but they have probably been paid for long ago via the Clinton foundation.

Godfather.

calling some refugees......"useless POS"? I am struggling for words right now. This is one of the most offensive things I have ever seen anyone type here. And that says a lot.

There is a lot of fear, hate, and ignorance in the world.

And a surprising amount on here as well.

Namaste'

There sure is. I am not defending the "useless POS" and skittle comments. But, when you refer to "fear", there actually is something to fear here. Look at the terrorists attacks that occurred in Paris, Belgium, Nice, San Bernardino, Orlando, Minnesota, New York, New Jersey, etc....There is a legitimate reason for fear. The question is what the proper response is, but to say that there is nothing to fear is not true. Look at how terrorism has changed the world in the last 15 years. Certainly the West's response plays a role, but it has changed our lives in so many ways. If 100,000 refugees come to the USA there will be a terrorist among them, or one in the next generation. Some think that the collateral damage is fine, and others think that it is treasonous act. There is a middle ground but to say that there is nothing to fear is not true.

He didn't say there isn't anything to fear. You can be afraid if you want, but fear shouldn't drive the response, and that's what you're seeing. Also, the fear is way out of proportion to the actual threat.

So whose decision is it to sacrifice the lives of a nominal amount of USA citizens' lives in order to bring in 100,000 refugees where a couple will probably commit a terrorist attack at some point? I'm not saying we should completely shut the door, but lets be honest about this.

Let's be honest about it. How many refugees in the US have committed a terrorist act? Refugees, not immigrants...

Europe is having problems with the second and third generations. The US terrorist acts have been second and third generation. You say it is isn't an act committed by an immigrant, but you completely ignore that the second and third generation can't commit a terrorist act if their parents didn't immigrate. This is why assimilation is so important, because Europe has found that even though someone is born in France that doesn't mean they put France above Syria or Afghanistan. This isn't just about the person immigrating now, but what happens generations down the line. Hopefully we will not be as fractured as Europe is now.

Again, you are confusing immigration and refugees. I never said no terrorist acts were committed by immigrants, only refugees, which is the topic de jour. Also, we are not Europe and have very different borders and history for that matter. They cannot be compared.

Certainly the USA is used to being a melting pot. But we have terrorist acts in the USA just like Europe does. Who knows how many plots the FBI and CIA have thwarted. Is a Muslim immigrant different than a Muslim refugee somehow?

I agree that 99% of Muslims aren't a problem, but the 1% creates so much havoc we can't ignore the problem.

Yes, a Muslim immigrant is very different than a refugee. It is significantly easier to get a visa than be admitted by refugee status. Refugees are coming from war torn countries because they have no where else to go and deserve some sympathy. They are also vetted significantly more than any other person entering this country. A visa is significantly easier to get.

Before people talk about suspending refugees, it's important they understand what they are talking about.

I'm living in Ireland now. There are many appeals on the television by aid groups asking for donations and support of the Syrian refugees. The photos are graphic and disturbing to what is happening to innocent people. Are similar things airing on the television or is the topic too taboo?

Don't mind me while I have a good laugh...no, there is no sympathy, calls for action or anything even remotely close happening in the US. We do have Donald Trump ads telling me brown people are coming to kill me though

Aside from occasional tweets and articles along these lines, which I thought were pretty fitting

https://twitter.com/jonfavs/status/778036417167368192

wall232

Cliffy6745 said:

wall232 said:

Cliffy6745 said:

NONE OF YOU PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE KILLED BY A TERRORIST!

Pretty bold statement considering this isn't just a US message board.

I also personally know people who have been killed by terrorist acts, I stood on the piles the days after 9/11 and helped pull bodies of people who probably thought they would never be killed by a terrorist. Multiple bombs went off this weekend that could have killed people, luckily the bomb maker seems to be a bit of an idiot, luckily!

Sorry, but your statement is ridiculous.

Well that is fair, but we are talking about US policy.

It's not. There are (were) other people on this board who had very close ones also die in 9/11. We're not talking about 9/11 anymore. That scale attack isn't happening in this day in age. But the chances of being killed by a terrorist are pretty similar to the chances of you winning the powerball...which also, I hate to break it to you, isn't happen.

I hope you are correct that an attack of that magnitude doesn't happen again. I am not afraid but I am vigilant and can tell you that I see how easy it would be for someone, or some people, to commit an act that could be just as devastating everyday while on my way to work. A few well-placed bombs on the NYC subways will bring this city to a grinding halt and have ramifications throughout the entire country.

I'm not against letting refugees into the country after extensive backgrounds checks. I just get upset when things happen, things that are more than likely being committed by a certain group of extremist, and being told not to jump to conclusions.

seanwon

bootlegger10 said:

Cliffy6745 said:

NONE OF YOU PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE KILLED BY A TERRORIST!

Let's just play the odds then right? It is okay if 50 die in Orlando or 20 in San Bernardino right? Odds are it won't be me so fuck whoever does get killed right? The numbers aren't large enough to care.

How about the hundreds that died in Paris and Belgium? Are they not people, because they died. One was a big Eddie Vedder fan and could have posted here. He died. Does saying it in all CAPS make it true?

About 100 people killed by Islamic terrorists since 9/11 on US soil. ONE HUNDRED. During the same time period approximately 735 people died from being struck by lightning. About 180,000 died from firearms during that same time period. Over 30,000 die annually from car accidents and over 30,000 die annually from accidental poisoning. Yeah, I'll play the odds.

Godfather.

Go Beavers said:

Godfather. said:

Go Beavers said:

Godfather. said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I don't think GF was calling all refugees 'useless POS'.

I believe he was calling the evil ones among them 'useless POS'.

that's correct.

Godfather.

So to clarify, you meant "most" of the evil ones are pos's, and some of the evil ones are not?

are you an evil muslim ? it sounds as though I've hurt your feelings, let me get my violin out for you.

Godfather.

Nice try. I just pointing out another bigoted comment you made in here, and now you're trying to backpedal out of it.

how so ?
try ?.....my ass ! that was home run !

Godfather.

Cliffy6745

wall232 said:

Cliffy6745 said:

wall232 said:

Cliffy6745 said:

NONE OF YOU PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE KILLED BY A TERRORIST!

Pretty bold statement considering this isn't just a US message board.

I also personally know people who have been killed by terrorist acts, I stood on the piles the days after 9/11 and helped pull bodies of people who probably thought they would never be killed by a terrorist. Multiple bombs went off this weekend that could have killed people, luckily the bomb maker seems to be a bit of an idiot, luckily!

Sorry, but your statement is ridiculous.

Well that is fair, but we are talking about US policy.

It's not. There are (were) other people on this board who had very close ones also die in 9/11. We're not talking about 9/11 anymore. That scale attack isn't happening in this day in age. But the chances of being killed by a terrorist are pretty similar to the chances of you winning the powerball...which also, I hate to break it to you, isn't happen.

I hope you are correct that an attack of that magnitude doesn't happen again. I am not afraid but I am vigilant and can tell you that I see how easy it would be for someone, or some people, to commit an act that could be just as devastating everyday while on my way to work. A few well-placed bombs on the NYC subways will bring this city to a grinding halt and have ramifications throughout the entire country.

I'm not against letting refugees into the country after extensive backgrounds checks. I just get upset when things happen, things that are more than likely being committed by a certain group of extremist, and being told not to jump to conclusions.

I don't disagree with anything you said here one bit. I think there is a difference between being afraid and vigilant. We should all be vigilant. I certainly agree that something along those lines would have major ramifications and would be awful and certainly could happen, but nothing even mildly close to that has happened in this country in a very long time. I am not saying assume it won't happen, but the chances don't seem very great that someone is going to go through the refugee process to do something like that. We don't need to change who we are as a country because of fear.

If we want to talk about changing the visa process for the time being, sure, I am open to that conversation.

I am not trying to be dismissive of people who have died in terrorists attacks, even though I am sure it came off that way. If worst case scenario 200 (I don't think it is anything close to that) people died in the country at the hands of islamist terrorists this year, that is 250 out of 300+ million. Chances aren't very good it's going to be any of us.

There are so many other things that are so much more likely to kill us, yet we don't spend 1/100 of the amount of time talking about them.

Go Beavers

Godfather. said:

Go Beavers said:

Godfather. said:

Go Beavers said:

Godfather. said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I don't think GF was calling all refugees 'useless POS'.

I believe he was calling the evil ones among them 'useless POS'.

that's correct.

Godfather.

So to clarify, you meant "most" of the evil ones are pos's, and some of the evil ones are not?

are you an evil muslim ? it sounds as though I've hurt your feelings, let me get my violin out for you.

Godfather.

Nice try. I just pointing out another bigoted comment you made in here, and now you're trying to backpedal out of it.

how so ?
try ?.....my ass ! that was home run !

Godfather.

How so? When you said "most" are pos's, the subject was refugees, not terrorists. And no, you didn't hurt my feelings.

Cliffy6745

I am willing to take my chances at being killed by a terrorist and live by this, rather than live in fear and not care about people suffering

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Cliffy6745

I also find it amusing that the folks who want to stop muslims from coming into the country are also the folks least likely to be impacted by terrorism...

unsung

Maybe we don't want our small towns dynamically changed.

g under p

Cliffy6745 said:

I am willing to take my chances at being killed by a terrorist and live by this, rather than live in fear and not care about people suffering

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

We agree on something, well alright.

Peace

Go Beavers

unsung said:

Maybe we don't want our small towns dynamically changed.

Why am I not surprised you're resistant to change?

Cliffy6745

unsung said:

Maybe we don't want our small towns dynamically changed.

Maybe they aren't going to be...

Seriously though, you should welcome some Halal grub into your towns, it's delicious...

unsung

Go Beavers said:

Godfather. said:

Go Beavers said:

Godfather. said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I don't think GF was calling all refugees 'useless POS'.

I believe he was calling the evil ones among them 'useless POS'.

that's correct.

Godfather.

So to clarify, you meant "most" of the evil ones are pos's, and some of the evil ones are not?

are you an evil muslim ? it sounds as though I've hurt your feelings, let me get my violin out for you.

Godfather.

Nice try. I just pointing out another bigoted comment you made in here, and now you're trying to backpedal out of it.

Throwing out bigoted is the 2016 version of throwing the race card.

unsung

Go Beavers said:

unsung said:

Maybe we don't want our small towns dynamically changed.

Why am I not surprised you're resistant to change?

Why would I want to ruin a good thing? Why would I want to take a nice quiet town and import crime? Who pays for them when the federal funds dry up, when the relocation companies pack up shop? Stuff that shit in the big cities.

unsung

Cliffy6745 said:

unsung said:

Maybe we don't want our small towns dynamically changed.

Maybe they aren't going to be...

Seriously though, you should welcome some Halal grub into your towns, it's delicious...

I'll drive to it, thanks.

Cliffy6745

unsung said:

Cliffy6745 said:

unsung said:

Maybe we don't want our small towns dynamically changed.

Maybe they aren't going to be...

Seriously though, you should welcome some Halal grub into your towns, it's delicious...

I'll drive to it, thanks.

lol

Go Beavers

unsung said:

Go Beavers said:

Godfather. said:

Go Beavers said:

Godfather. said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I don't think GF was calling all refugees 'useless POS'.

I believe he was calling the evil ones among them 'useless POS'.

that's correct.

Godfather.

So to clarify, you meant "most" of the evil ones are pos's, and some of the evil ones are not?

are you an evil muslim ? it sounds as though I've hurt your feelings, let me get my violin out for you.

Godfather.

Nice try. I just pointing out another bigoted comment you made in here, and now you're trying to backpedal out of it.

Throwing out bigoted is the 2016 version of throwing the race card.

Or it's just calling something what it is. I would've said the same thing in 1990. There's no card being played. If you want to just shrug st that kind of crap, go ahead.

unsung

Anytime anyone argues crime statistics in big cities race gets brought up and every time someone does that they get called racist. Now if you talk that way of refugees you're a bigot.

It's perfect for a nice rolleyes meme.

Go Beavers

unsung said:

Anytime anyone argues crime statistics in big cities race gets brought up and every time someone does that they get called racist. Now if you talk that way of refugees you're a bigot.

It's perfect for a nice rolleyes meme.

No. When people talk about urban crime stats, racist people say racist things because of the conclusions they draw from the statistics. People who aren't racist don't get accused of it. Re: refugees, I think it took until page 8 or 9 for me to say someone said something bigoted after they said something bigoted. I said that to one person. I will say you speak in hyperbole often. Yup, I just called you a hyperbolic.

HughFreakingDillon

unsung said:

Anytime anyone argues crime statistics in big cities race gets brought up and every time someone does that they get called racist. Now if you talk that way of refugees you're a bigot.

It's perfect for a nice rolleyes meme.

completely incorrect. I have often stated that the crime, in Winnipeg for example, is generally perpetuated by aboriginals. that is fact.

what isn't a fact, and what gets someone the label of racist or bigot or just plain ignorant, is blaming the problem on aboriginals.

it's a systemic issue of racial oppression over generations.

you decide which category you fall into.