Kaepernick

brianlux

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

HesCalledDyer said:

I hate the term Indian. And I hate the term Native American.  Calling indigenous peoples "American" when they were here before "North America" or "The United States of America" existed is still bastardizing and washing away their culture.  They never were American.  We called them that AFTER we got here and named it America.

That really is a tough dilemma.  First of all, a term like "Indian" makes it sound like they're all the same people which they were/are not.  "Native American" is closer except, as you say, "America" is a European term that comes from the name of the explorer, Amerigo Vespucci.

I asked an "Indian" guy who comes into the store now and then what term he prefers and he said "American Indian". 

But I remember finding the following article a few years ago and the people questioned more often said they preferred being regarded by their tribe (although that's difficult to determine unless you ask the person):

https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/culture/social-issues/blackhorse-do-you-prefer-native-american-or-american-indian-6-prominent-voices-respond/

Yeah, Europeans stripped Natives of their lands, their cultures, their languages, their health but we did not steal their pride.  I talked to a guy not too long  ago  who had been involved in the occupation of Alcatraz from 1969 to 1971 and when he spoke about it, he was damn proud.  I felt like I was in the presence of someone truly heroic.

an aboriginal actually said he prefers to be called american indian? that's interesting. how old was he about?

"Aboriginal".  That's a good term.

I'm terrible at guessing someone's age but I'd say probably in his 50's. 

Found this from The National Museum of the American Indian site:

http://nmai.si.edu/explore/education/did-you-know/

"What is the correct terminology: American Indian, Indian, Native American or Native?

All of these terms are acceptable. The consensus, however, is that whenever possible, Native people prefer to be called by their specific tribal name. In the United States, Native American has been widely used but is falling out of favor with some groups, and the terms American Indian or indigenous American are preferred by many Native people."

Paul Chaat Smith, who wrote one of the best books I know of about North American Natives, is a curator at the The National Museum of the American.  The book is Everything You Know about Indians Is Wrong.  Great book.

PJ_Soul

In Canada the most acceptable term by far, when not referring to a specific tribe/group, is First Nations. Indigenous peoples also flies. Apparently aboriginal isn't favoured too well anymore because it is considered by many to not be totally inclusive of all groups it's assumed to refer to.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

In Canada the most acceptable term by far, when not referring to a specific tribe/group, is First Nations. Indigenous peoples also flies. Apparently aboriginal isn't favoured too well anymore because it is considered by many to not be totally inclusive of all groups it's assumed to refer to.

interesting. I thought First Nations was more specific than aboriginal. 

dignin

First Nations is what I try and use. Seems to make the most sense. 

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

In Canada the most acceptable term by far, when not referring to a specific tribe/group, is First Nations. Indigenous peoples also flies. Apparently aboriginal isn't favoured too well anymore because it is considered by many to not be totally inclusive of all groups it's assumed to refer to.

I like First Nations- it makes sense and is a good description.  Unfortunately, at least in California, when you use that term, most people don't have a clue what you mean.

Wobbie

HughFreakingDillon said:

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Is it okay to disregard a request for a moment's silence?

For example, if the US' next mass shooting produces multiple police officers killed in the process of dealing with the situation... and in the city where the mass murder occurs (with legally acquired weapons and ammunition of course)... the PA announcer asks that people rise and pay a moment's silence for the fallen officers... would it be okay to disregard such a request?  

I don't think they are the same. that moment of silence is about something very specific, one tragic event. the anthem is not just about soldiers, or one war, or one event. it's a multitude of things. 

I for one, would disagree with someone not standing for your scenario above. 

But it's well within our rights.

well of course it is. but that wasn't the question. 

Hence my use of the proper conjunction for a contrasting segue.

fair enough, professor. 

RYME

HughFreakingDillon said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

RYME said:

I think there should be a different protest demonstration every week at these sporitng events.  Let's get all sports involved.  I don't want the NBA to feel like they are left out.  Baseball, Rodeos, Ice boating all of it.
 I think this coming weekend, all the players should step out of the players line and instead of kneeling, they should do the Michael Jackson Moonwalk.  Might be hard to do with cleats on,, so they should all take off and throw their shoes at somebody, and then do some Moonwalking during the anthem.  Maybe spin around 3 times fast at the end, and try to land on their tippy toes.  It would be awesome.
Next week, step out and do some sort of shake your booty dance for those two minutes.  Mix it up a bit, make it interesting.  Highlight what ever, or whoever you want to protest this week, and have at it.  Dance my brothers and sisters, during the anthem, at funerals, it doesn't matter.
Its what ever you want, where ever you want, and how ever you want.  If we can't have a little fun in these troubled times, all is lost.

this is making fun of the protests. 

Yeah, the protests, linking arms whatever.
Not the oppressed, and not those indiscriminately killed by cops.
The American flag is physically is a piece of cloth or fabric.  What they are all angry about is totally legit.
The American flag , and the United States of America does not represent, condone, stand for, or support oppression.  There are bad apples among us.  But that's not who it represents.  That's my beef with the whole thing.
I'm done.

you can't make fun of the protests and claim to not be making fun of the protesters and what they are protesting against. 

the US absolutely condones it. that's why it is still happening. 

the US is not alone. Canada continues to do the same thing to its indigenous peoples. if there were more aboriginals in sports in Canada, I have no doubt something similar would be happening here. as it should. 

I beg the differ sir.
  Yes I can support the cause, yet be against the demonstrations.
You just don't get my logic, probably never will.. 
 I support Colin Kaepernick in what he was originally fighting against and what he was protesting against.  (Minority oppression, &  Indiscriminate police shootings.)
I am angry at the way in which he & a few others chose to protest by shitting on the flag/anthem in a grandstanding look at me way, It's all about getting the cameras on me mentality before the football games. .
Now it's expanded to linking arms and raising fists largely at Trump.
I say fine, protest Trump if you want to.  More power to you.
Find another vehicle to do it in.
Not pissing on the anthem/flag before every game.

eddiec

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

RYME said:

I think there should be a different protest demonstration every week at these sporitng events.  Let's get all sports involved.  I don't want the NBA to feel like they are left out.  Baseball, Rodeos, Ice boating all of it.
 I think this coming weekend, all the players should step out of the players line and instead of kneeling, they should do the Michael Jackson Moonwalk.  Might be hard to do with cleats on,, so they should all take off and throw their shoes at somebody, and then do some Moonwalking during the anthem.  Maybe spin around 3 times fast at the end, and try to land on their tippy toes.  It would be awesome.
Next week, step out and do some sort of shake your booty dance for those two minutes.  Mix it up a bit, make it interesting.  Highlight what ever, or whoever you want to protest this week, and have at it.  Dance my brothers and sisters, during the anthem, at funerals, it doesn't matter.
Its what ever you want, where ever you want, and how ever you want.  If we can't have a little fun in these troubled times, all is lost.

this is making fun of the protests. 

Yeah, the protests, linking arms whatever.
Not the oppressed, and not those indiscriminately killed by cops.
The American flag is physically is a piece of cloth or fabric.  What they are all angry about is totally legit.
The American flag , and the United States of America does not represent, condone, stand for, or support oppression.  There are bad apples among us.  But that's not who it represents.  That's my beef with the whole thing.
I'm done.

you can't make fun of the protests and claim to not be making fun of the protesters and what they are protesting against. 

the US absolutely condones it. that's why it is still happening. 

the US is not alone. Canada continues to do the same thing to its indigenous peoples. if there were more aboriginals in sports in Canada, I have no doubt something similar would be happening here. as it should. 

I beg the differ sir.
  Yes I can support the cause, yet be against the demonstrations.
You just don't get my logic, probably never will.. 
 I support Colin Kaepernick in what he was originally fighting against and what he was protesting against.  (Minority oppression, &  Indiscriminate police shootings.)
I am angry at the way in which he & a few others chose to protest by shitting on the flag/anthem in a grandstanding look at me way, It's all about getting the cameras on me mentality before the football games. .
Now it's expanded to linking arms and raising fists largely at Trump.
I say fine, protest Trump if you want to.  More power to you.
Find another vehicle to do it in.
Not pissing on the anthem/flag before every game.

Actually, this is all about you.

tbergs

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

RYME said:

I think there should be a different protest demonstration every week at these sporitng events.  Let's get all sports involved.  I don't want the NBA to feel like they are left out.  Baseball, Rodeos, Ice boating all of it.
 I think this coming weekend, all the players should step out of the players line and instead of kneeling, they should do the Michael Jackson Moonwalk.  Might be hard to do with cleats on,, so they should all take off and throw their shoes at somebody, and then do some Moonwalking during the anthem.  Maybe spin around 3 times fast at the end, and try to land on their tippy toes.  It would be awesome.
Next week, step out and do some sort of shake your booty dance for those two minutes.  Mix it up a bit, make it interesting.  Highlight what ever, or whoever you want to protest this week, and have at it.  Dance my brothers and sisters, during the anthem, at funerals, it doesn't matter.
Its what ever you want, where ever you want, and how ever you want.  If we can't have a little fun in these troubled times, all is lost.

this is making fun of the protests. 

Yeah, the protests, linking arms whatever.
Not the oppressed, and not those indiscriminately killed by cops.
The American flag is physically is a piece of cloth or fabric.  What they are all angry about is totally legit.
The American flag , and the United States of America does not represent, condone, stand for, or support oppression.  There are bad apples among us.  But that's not who it represents.  That's my beef with the whole thing.
I'm done.

you can't make fun of the protests and claim to not be making fun of the protesters and what they are protesting against. 

the US absolutely condones it. that's why it is still happening. 

the US is not alone. Canada continues to do the same thing to its indigenous peoples. if there were more aboriginals in sports in Canada, I have no doubt something similar would be happening here. as it should. 

I beg the differ sir.
  Yes I can support the cause, yet be against the demonstrations.
You just don't get my logic, probably never will.. 
 I support Colin Kaepernick in what he was originally fighting against and what he was protesting against.  (Minority oppression, &  Indiscriminate police shootings.)
I am angry at the way in which he & a few others chose to protest by shitting on the flag/anthem in a grandstanding look at me way, It's all about getting the cameras on me mentality before the football games. .
Now it's expanded to linking arms and raising fists largely at Trump.
I say fine, protest Trump if you want to.  More power to you.
Find another vehicle to do it in.
Not pissing on the anthem/flag before every game.

I'm guessing you viewed this as a look at me and attention getting as well?



Your flag doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. That's a personal issue.

RYME

 Fair enough
Ya-ta-hey, Hasteen, (greetings)
Maybe indigenous people would be a great topic on it's own.  I'm putting this here because it was being talked about.

I worked at the Grand Canyon in 99 guiding mule rides for a spring, summer, and fall job.  Grand Canyon North Rim to be specific, Bryce Canyon, and Zion Canyons in Utah too.  But anyway at the Grand Canyon, there is an employee bar EDR they called it, and then the Main Lodge for the tourists bar/restruant much more expensive full price & fancy everything.  I was one of the guides who took people for rides down & up the canyon on Mules, but there was all the other employees associated with the place.  Cook's waitresses housekeeping Etc.  One night at the EDR Employee Dining Room/Bar,  Much cheeper for employees and away from the Lodge.
I met and became friends with a few Navajo people who were working there.  We shot a few games of pool, having a good time, drinking and hanging out.
I asked them one day, what they prefer to be called. They responded to me,
(*Dine' ) is what the Navajos call themselves; it means "The People."
I hung out with them a lot after work that summer.
They have their own silent protest going on.  One night  I was buying a round, paying with a $20.  Nick (his name was) said to me "Why do you carry around those $20.00 bills?  "Do you not know what Andrew Jackson did to my people?" he asked.  At the time I was short on history, and said "no" I did not know and he explained to me.  So to this day, I don't go out of my way, but for him and all of them I usually trade my $20.00 bills for 2 $10s or 4 $5s any chance I can.  So I'm not against protesting.  
These people are great.  We had some good times.
ha`goo`nee`. 

brianlux

tbergs said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

RYME said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

RYME said:

I think there should be a different protest demonstration every week at these sporitng events.  Let's get all sports involved.  I don't want the NBA to feel like they are left out.  Baseball, Rodeos, Ice boating all of it.
 I think this coming weekend, all the players should step out of the players line and instead of kneeling, they should do the Michael Jackson Moonwalk.  Might be hard to do with cleats on,, so they should all take off and throw their shoes at somebody, and then do some Moonwalking during the anthem.  Maybe spin around 3 times fast at the end, and try to land on their tippy toes.  It would be awesome.
Next week, step out and do some sort of shake your booty dance for those two minutes.  Mix it up a bit, make it interesting.  Highlight what ever, or whoever you want to protest this week, and have at it.  Dance my brothers and sisters, during the anthem, at funerals, it doesn't matter.
Its what ever you want, where ever you want, and how ever you want.  If we can't have a little fun in these troubled times, all is lost.

this is making fun of the protests. 

Yeah, the protests, linking arms whatever.
Not the oppressed, and not those indiscriminately killed by cops.
The American flag is physically is a piece of cloth or fabric.  What they are all angry about is totally legit.
The American flag , and the United States of America does not represent, condone, stand for, or support oppression.  There are bad apples among us.  But that's not who it represents.  That's my beef with the whole thing.
I'm done.

you can't make fun of the protests and claim to not be making fun of the protesters and what they are protesting against. 

the US absolutely condones it. that's why it is still happening. 

the US is not alone. Canada continues to do the same thing to its indigenous peoples. if there were more aboriginals in sports in Canada, I have no doubt something similar would be happening here. as it should. 

I beg the differ sir.
  Yes I can support the cause, yet be against the demonstrations.
You just don't get my logic, probably never will.. 
 I support Colin Kaepernick in what he was originally fighting against and what he was protesting against.  (Minority oppression, &  Indiscriminate police shootings.)
I am angry at the way in which he & a few others chose to protest by shitting on the flag/anthem in a grandstanding look at me way, It's all about getting the cameras on me mentality before the football games. .
Now it's expanded to linking arms and raising fists largely at Trump.
I say fine, protest Trump if you want to.  More power to you.
Find another vehicle to do it in.
Not pissing on the anthem/flag before every game.

I'm guessing you viewed this as a look at me and attention getting as well?



Your flag doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. That's a personal issue.

Well said, T, that's a good example of not a "look at me moment".  I remember seeing those guys do that- I think it was live on TV.  It was a fucking powerful moment that was not at all about those individuals but rather about a lifting up a beleaguered people, saluting a just cause, helping to motivate a worthy movement. 

benjs

RYME said:

 Fair enough
Ya-ta-hey, Hasteen, (greetings)
Maybe indigenous people would be a great topic on it's own.  I'm putting this here because it was being talked about.

I worked at the Grand Canyon in 99 guiding mule rides for a spring, summer, and fall job.  Grand Canyon North Rim to be specific, Bryce Canyon, and Zion Canyons in Utah too.  But anyway at the Grand Canyon, there is an employee bar EDR they called it, and then the Main Lodge for the tourists bar/restruant much more expensive full price & fancy everything.  I was one of the guides who took people for rides down & up the canyon on Mules, but there was all the other employees associated with the place.  Cook's waitresses housekeeping Etc.  One night at the EDR Employee Dining Room/Bar,  Much cheeper for employees and away from the Lodge.
I met and became friends with a few Navajo people who were working there.  We shot a few games of pool, having a good time, drinking and hanging out.
I asked them one day, what they prefer to be called. They responded to me,
(*Dine' ) is what the Navajos call themselves; it means "The People."
I hung out with them a lot after work that summer.
They have their own silent protest going on.  One night  I was buying a round, paying with a $20.  Nick (his name was) said to me "Why do you carry around those $20.00 bills?  "Do you not know what Andrew Jackson did to my people?" he asked.  At the time I was short on history, and said "no" I did not know and he explained to me.  So to this day, I don't go out of my way, but for him and all of them I usually trade my $20.00 bills for 2 $10s or 4 $5s any chance I can.  So I'm not against protesting.  
These people are great.  We had some good times.
ha`goo`nee`. 

A silent and invisible protest is a useless one. You are neglecting the purpose of a protest, which is to drive change. What changed by you and the Navajo trading $20 bills for another denomination?

RYME

benjs said:

RYME said:

 Fair enough
Ya-ta-hey, Hasteen, (greetings)
Maybe indigenous people would be a great topic on it's own.  I'm putting this here because it was being talked about.

I worked at the Grand Canyon in 99 guiding mule rides for a spring, summer, and fall job.  Grand Canyon North Rim to be specific, Bryce Canyon, and Zion Canyons in Utah too.  But anyway at the Grand Canyon, there is an employee bar EDR they called it, and then the Main Lodge for the tourists bar/restruant much more expensive full price & fancy everything.  I was one of the guides who took people for rides down & up the canyon on Mules, but there was all the other employees associated with the place.  Cook's waitresses housekeeping Etc.  One night at the EDR Employee Dining Room/Bar,  Much cheeper for employees and away from the Lodge.
I met and became friends with a few Navajo people who were working there.  We shot a few games of pool, having a good time, drinking and hanging out.
I asked them one day, what they prefer to be called. They responded to me,
(*Dine' ) is what the Navajos call themselves; it means "The People."
I hung out with them a lot after work that summer.
They have their own silent protest going on.  One night  I was buying a round, paying with a $20.  Nick (his name was) said to me "Why do you carry around those $20.00 bills?  "Do you not know what Andrew Jackson did to my people?" he asked.  At the time I was short on history, and said "no" I did not know and he explained to me.  So to this day, I don't go out of my way, but for him and all of them I usually trade my $20.00 bills for 2 $10s or 4 $5s any chance I can.  So I'm not against protesting.  
These people are great.  We had some good times.
ha`goo`nee`. 

A silent and invisible protest is a useless one. You are neglecting the purpose of a protest, which is to drive change. What changed by you and the Navajo trading $20 bills for another denomination?

Feels like I'm pissing into a gale force wind here.  Conservative/Independent vs 99% liberal progressives not a good place to be.
It's been fun.

cincybearcat

benjs said:

RYME said:

 Fair enough
Ya-ta-hey, Hasteen, (greetings)
Maybe indigenous people would be a great topic on it's own.  I'm putting this here because it was being talked about.

I worked at the Grand Canyon in 99 guiding mule rides for a spring, summer, and fall job.  Grand Canyon North Rim to be specific, Bryce Canyon, and Zion Canyons in Utah too.  But anyway at the Grand Canyon, there is an employee bar EDR they called it, and then the Main Lodge for the tourists bar/restruant much more expensive full price & fancy everything.  I was one of the guides who took people for rides down & up the canyon on Mules, but there was all the other employees associated with the place.  Cook's waitresses housekeeping Etc.  One night at the EDR Employee Dining Room/Bar,  Much cheeper for employees and away from the Lodge.
I met and became friends with a few Navajo people who were working there.  We shot a few games of pool, having a good time, drinking and hanging out.
I asked them one day, what they prefer to be called. They responded to me,
(*Dine' ) is what the Navajos call themselves; it means "The People."
I hung out with them a lot after work that summer.
They have their own silent protest going on.  One night  I was buying a round, paying with a $20.  Nick (his name was) said to me "Why do you carry around those $20.00 bills?  "Do you not know what Andrew Jackson did to my people?" he asked.  At the time I was short on history, and said "no" I did not know and he explained to me.  So to this day, I don't go out of my way, but for him and all of them I usually trade my $20.00 bills for 2 $10s or 4 $5s any chance I can.  So I'm not against protesting.  
These people are great.  We had some good times.
ha`goo`nee`. 

A silent and invisible protest is a useless one. You are neglecting the purpose of a protest, which is to drive change. What changed by you and the Navajo trading $20 bills for another denomination?

And that’s all you got out of that story? I’m kinda surprised you would critique their choice of protest.

anhyhow - I found the story interesting. Thanks for sharing.

cincybearcat

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/the-head-of-national-museum-of-the-american-indian-on-what-we-should-all-know/2016/11/21/746c9c22-a109-11e6-a44d-cc2898cfab06_story.html?utm_term=.ad5ce2c1a57e

benjs

RYME said:

benjs said:

RYME said:

 Fair enough
Ya-ta-hey, Hasteen, (greetings)
Maybe indigenous people would be a great topic on it's own.  I'm putting this here because it was being talked about.

I worked at the Grand Canyon in 99 guiding mule rides for a spring, summer, and fall job.  Grand Canyon North Rim to be specific, Bryce Canyon, and Zion Canyons in Utah too.  But anyway at the Grand Canyon, there is an employee bar EDR they called it, and then the Main Lodge for the tourists bar/restruant much more expensive full price & fancy everything.  I was one of the guides who took people for rides down & up the canyon on Mules, but there was all the other employees associated with the place.  Cook's waitresses housekeeping Etc.  One night at the EDR Employee Dining Room/Bar,  Much cheeper for employees and away from the Lodge.
I met and became friends with a few Navajo people who were working there.  We shot a few games of pool, having a good time, drinking and hanging out.
I asked them one day, what they prefer to be called. They responded to me,
(*Dine' ) is what the Navajos call themselves; it means "The People."
I hung out with them a lot after work that summer.
They have their own silent protest going on.  One night  I was buying a round, paying with a $20.  Nick (his name was) said to me "Why do you carry around those $20.00 bills?  "Do you not know what Andrew Jackson did to my people?" he asked.  At the time I was short on history, and said "no" I did not know and he explained to me.  So to this day, I don't go out of my way, but for him and all of them I usually trade my $20.00 bills for 2 $10s or 4 $5s any chance I can.  So I'm not against protesting.  
These people are great.  We had some good times.
ha`goo`nee`. 

A silent and invisible protest is a useless one. You are neglecting the purpose of a protest, which is to drive change. What changed by you and the Navajo trading $20 bills for another denomination?

Feels like I'm pissing into a gale force wind here.  Conservative/Independent vs 99% liberal progressives not a good place to be.
It's been fun.

You used this story as evidence that you support protest. You’ve only shown that you support protest that doesn’t offend your personal sensibilities, and/or is done in ineffective ways. Pardon me for not admiring your courage and effort.

brianlux

cincybearcat said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/the-head-of-national-museum-of-the-american-indian-on-what-we-should-all-know/2016/11/21/746c9c22-a109-11e6-a44d-cc2898cfab06_story.html?utm_term=.ad5ce2c1a57e

Thanks, Cincy.  Good article.

One of our greatest failures as a nation--  indigenous people's lands, culture, language, freedom, all of it were stripped away-- and even worse, some tribes were nearly completely wiped out-- they were marched off to reservations and yet this still happens:

"Some insult or degradation of tribal property rights or tribal environmental interests are happening on an ongoing basis."

I'll never understand that.

rgambs

I had to laugh this morning at the gym when I saw Fox and Friends show a picture of Browns stadium with the caption "NFL stadiums empty amid protests"

F Me In The Brain

\

rgambs said:

I had to laugh this morning at the gym when I saw Fox and Friends show a picture of Browns stadium with the caption "NFL stadiums empty amid protests"

It is a protest against shitty Quarterback selections

rgambs

F Me In The Brain said:

\

rgambs said:

I had to laugh this morning at the gym when I saw Fox and Friends show a picture of Browns stadium with the caption "NFL stadiums empty amid protests"

It is a protest against shitty Quarterback selections

On another TV around the same time: Joe Thomas had a streak of 10,000+ snaps.
Impressive!
20 different starting QB's he snapped for during that streak.
Not so impressive lol