The military must be concerned. American sporting events are probably their greatest propaganda vehicles after actual war. I wonder how they're going to compensate?
Toys and merchandising. Plenty of shit to peddle to kids at your local Wal-Mart and Target to get them hooked. Hell, the tobacco industry finally figured it out with the e-cigs.
It's a hopeless situation...
0
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,389
can we get rid of god bless america during the 7th inning stretch as well? that didn't used to be a thing until recently,either
that started after 9/11 and I believe, other than special days like July 4th, only the Yankees still do it every game. I believe they have everyone do it during the playoffs as well.
they do it at every game I've been to recently. Yankees must be the only ones who televise it?
They still do Take Me Out To The Ballgame at some games and I also think AtB is more of a Sunday deal at most parks.
Here is a poem written and performed by a cowboy friend of mine, who I worked for on an Arizona cattle ranch in 1995. Chris Issacs. Who has been a cattle rancher & became a really good poet. Has won several awards from the Academy of Western Artists. Before I knew him he was a Marine. Served during but not in Viet Nam. This is a poem he wrote about a wonderful Navajo, who was among many things, an outstanding bull rider in the rodeo. Got sent to Viet Nam but didn't make it back. Read, or just have a listen, and ponder. https://blog.cowboypoetry.com/category/poems/michael-bia-by-chris-isaacs/ The poem is called Michael Bia https://youtu.be/k3VItICRwSo http://www.vvmf.org/Wall-of-Faces/3911/MICHAEL-H-BIA It tears me up a little every time I read or hear this.
The military must be concerned. American sporting events are probably their greatest propaganda vehicles after actual war. I wonder how they're going to compensate?
Yup, but their billion dollar marketing budget is spent in a lot of places though.
can we get rid of god bless america during the 7th inning stretch as well? that didn't used to be a thing until recently,either
Two things that are super easy to keep the flock in check. Religion and patriotism.
I'm just a sucker aren't I.
I know plenty of very intelligent religious people. my wife being one of them. honestly, I can't reconcile that with the belief in a deity, but I also haven't walked in anyone's shoes but my own, so I can't possibly judge someone for what they believe.
patriotism, though........
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
can we get rid of god bless america during the 7th inning stretch as well? that didn't used to be a thing until recently,either
Two things that are super easy to keep the flock in check. Religion and patriotism.
I'm just a sucker aren't I.
I know plenty of very intelligent religious people. my wife being one of them. honestly, I can't reconcile that with the belief in a deity, but I also haven't walked in anyone's shoes but my own, so I can't possibly judge someone for what they believe.
patriotism, though........
Why would patriotism be any different in your inability to judge someone for what they believe, not knowing how they really feel/what their realities are? I don't see how that makes sense.
I don't believe in telling people what to do, so long as they are not harming (or posing a risk to) others. If you want to burn a cross or salute a flag, it is your right. Don't push your deal on me. I pass judgements every day on things that I see -- like I would automatically assume someone burning a cross was an asshole -- but who is to say what my judgements are hold any more weight than the judgements of others. I judge. Oh yes, I judge. I would go so far as to say I think we all judge. Some of us just think our judgements should (or worse, need to be) be how others think as well.
*edit - I should note that, at times, I forget this basic logic and try to convince others to think how I do. This is silly, to me, and I usually correct course pretty quickly. No problem sharing my opinion, just try to remember to state it is my opinion and allow others to continue thinking what they like.
can we get rid of god bless america during the 7th inning stretch as well? that didn't used to be a thing until recently,either
Two things that are super easy to keep the flock in check. Religion and patriotism.
I'm just a sucker aren't I.
I know plenty of very intelligent religious people. my wife being one of them. honestly, I can't reconcile that with the belief in a deity, but I also haven't walked in anyone's shoes but my own, so I can't possibly judge someone for what they believe.
patriotism, though........
Why would patriotism be any different in your inability to judge someone for what they believe, not knowing how they really feel/what their realities are? I don't see how that makes sense.
I don't believe in telling people what to do, so long as they are not harming (or posing a risk to) others. If you want to burn a cross or salute a flag, it is your right. Don't push your deal on me. I pass judgements every day on things that I see -- like I would automatically assume someone burning a cross was an asshole -- but who is to say what my judgements are hold any more weight than the judgements of others. I judge. Oh yes, I judge. I would go so far as to say I think we all judge. Some of us just think our judgements should (or worse, need to be) be how others think as well.
as a non-believer and non-patriot:
I find the reaches of faith go far deeper than a sense of patriotism. there is an emotional and unknown component to it that can't be quantified. i can understand the need for faith.
patriotism is just blindly following your government and their cultivation of fear and ignorance thinking you are better for no other reason than being born in a certain geographical location.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
can we get rid of god bless america during the 7th inning stretch as well? that didn't used to be a thing until recently,either
Two things that are super easy to keep the flock in check. Religion and patriotism.
I'm just a sucker aren't I.
I know plenty of very intelligent religious people. my wife being one of them. honestly, I can't reconcile that with the belief in a deity, but I also haven't walked in anyone's shoes but my own, so I can't possibly judge someone for what they believe.
patriotism, though........
Why would patriotism be any different in your inability to judge someone for what they believe, not knowing how they really feel/what their realities are? I don't see how that makes sense.
I don't believe in telling people what to do, so long as they are not harming (or posing a risk to) others. If you want to burn a cross or salute a flag, it is your right. Don't push your deal on me. I pass judgements every day on things that I see -- like I would automatically assume someone burning a cross was an asshole -- but who is to say what my judgements are hold any more weight than the judgements of others. I judge. Oh yes, I judge. I would go so far as to say I think we all judge. Some of us just think our judgements should (or worse, need to be) be how others think as well.
as a non-believer and non-patriot:
I find the reaches of faith go far deeper than a sense of patriotism. there is an emotional and unknown component to it that can't be quantified. i can understand the need for faith.
patriotism is just blindly following your government and their cultivation of fear and ignorance thinking you are better for no other reason than being born in a certain geographical location.
That is religion too. Depending on your geographical location that will dictate your religion as well.
Neither makes sense to me.
0
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,389
Fair enough, I get what you are saying.
I think there are some who would say that Patriotism is something that goes as deeply as an emotion can go.
Strong support for one's country does not necessarily mean you support a 'cultivation of fear and ignorance', and I would put out there that Patriotism does not mean that you feel 'you are better for no other reason that being born in a certain geographic area.'
Hey, you can believe what you want. My opinion is that your statement is a pretty harsh judgement on a big group of people (people who would define themselves as 'Patriotic') and that it might be slightly antagonistic toward many, many people. This sort of rhetoric is part of the problem today, in my opinion.
As stated before here, I do not think that Mr Kaepernick shows any lack of Patriotism because he chooses to kneel in silent protest during the playing of the National Anthem at a sporting event. Based on his actions, I believe he has a very strong support for his country....he also is working to draw attention to some things he feels need to be changed in his country.
I think there are some who would say that Patriotism is something that goes as deeply as an emotion can go.
Strong support for one's country does not necessarily mean you support a 'cultivation of fear and ignorance', and I would put out there that Patriotism does not mean that you feel 'you are better for no other reason that being born in a certain geographic area.'
Hey, you can believe what you want. My opinion is that your statement is a pretty harsh judgement on a big group of people (people who would define themselves as 'Patriotic') and that it might be slightly antagonistic toward many, many people. This sort of rhetoric is part of the problem today, in my opinion.
As stated before here, I do not think that Mr Kaepernick shows any lack of Patriotism because he chooses to kneel in silent protest during the playing of the National Anthem at a sporting event. Based on his actions, I believe he has a very strong support for his country....he also is working to draw attention to some things he feels need to be changed in his country.
we are having a discussion on a message board. I'm not walking around with a sign on my back saying "patriots are idiots".
I can understand patriotism if you are, say, a military family. hey, you gotta have a strong emotional connection to your country if you are willing to die for it. But I'm talking about the average citizen who sing the national anthem at a sporting event without even considering why. or telling others they need to take their hat off, and when you ask why, all they can utter is "it's disrespectful", but they have zero idea why.
I don't know if Kaepernick is a patriot or not. I don't think his protest has anything to do with it either way. all he's highlighting is the gross inequality in the US towards minorities.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
0
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,389
I think there are some who would say that Patriotism is something that goes as deeply as an emotion can go.
Strong support for one's country does not necessarily mean you support a 'cultivation of fear and ignorance', and I would put out there that Patriotism does not mean that you feel 'you are better for no other reason that being born in a certain geographic area.'
Hey, you can believe what you want. My opinion is that your statement is a pretty harsh judgement on a big group of people (people who would define themselves as 'Patriotic') and that it might be slightly antagonistic toward many, many people. This sort of rhetoric is part of the problem today, in my opinion.
As stated before here, I do not think that Mr Kaepernick shows any lack of Patriotism because he chooses to kneel in silent protest during the playing of the National Anthem at a sporting event. Based on his actions, I believe he has a very strong support for his country....he also is working to draw attention to some things he feels need to be changed in his country.
we are having a discussion on a message board. I'm not walking around with a sign on my back saying "patriots are idiots".
I can understand patriotism if you are, say, a military family. hey, you gotta have a strong emotional connection to your country if you are willing to die for it. But I'm talking about the average citizen who sing the national anthem at a sporting event without even considering why. or telling others they need to take their hat off, and when you ask why, all they can utter is "it's disrespectful", but they have zero idea why.
I don't know if Kaepernick is a patriot or not. I don't think his protest has anything to do with it either way. all he's highlighting is the gross inequality in the US towards minorities.
Why is a discussion here different than how you speak with people irl?
What if (for example) you just love your country because you can look at your grandparents and see that 3 out of 4 of them came to this country from other places? (Italy x2, PR x1) The 4th grandparent saw his parents come from some other country. (Ireland) They all came to this country to try and live better lives -- for themselves, and for their families. Each generation has done a better than the previous one when it comes to jobs, financial stability, and education....to the point where I do things now for my family that I am sure my grandparents, were they alive, would be blown away by. This is because of the opportunity this country allowed hard working people who took advantage of the right conditions for them, personally, and parlayed that into a better future. I love my country. I am puzzled by the direction we are taking, and certainly dismayed by the actions of some of our citizens.
It is my opinion that not every immigrant had the same journey as my family did. I respect their opinions about their country, they are no doubt shaped by the realities that they (and theirs) experienced.
Your assumption is that the "average citizen" would not have any idea as to how to express themselves relative to their beliefs. I again find this, imo, to be presumptuous and inflammatory. It is your right to feel that way -- and to tell others you think so little of them -- but I do not happen to agree. Not sure what you are basing the opinion on, although I guess it does not matter. It is what you believe & real to you. I think if you came here, went to a sporting event, and asked people, that they would be able to tell you why they stand and salute....and why the symbol of this country is important to them.
I think if you read some of what Kaepernick has shared, he has expressed his admiration of our troops, his appreciation for what this country has given to him & many others...and at the same time that he is certainly trying to address how some are treated & how this treatment (in his opinion) is widely ignored. He initially sat during the anthem and then moved to the sideline and kneeled, saying he felt that was showing his respect for the flag & also his belief in others noting the need for changes. (Paraphrasing, certainly, that is my recollection of what he indicated at the time.)
Overall, it seems we agree in supporting his right to kneel, his right to support causes he believes in...we disconnect on the definition of Patriotism and the belief system the 'Average American' has when it comes to Patriotism. That is OK. You can lump Patriots all together in your beliefs.
I will continue to practice Pastafarianism as my religion (jokingly) & also to stand and salute the symbol of our country, its great history, the people who have fought for us & continue to serve, and what that means to me & has meant to my family. (And, to support the rights of Kaepernick to try and cause positive change in our society, where I also agree we need many positive changes.)
It makes me smile to know that some of our neighbors to the north are so concerned about us, while at the same time thinking that the Patriots in the US are such ignorant followers of our leaders, cheering on the cultivation of ignorance....all the while thinking we are better than everyone else because of where we were born.
I am a Patriot. I strongly support the USA. I do not agree with Donald J. Trump...I did not vote for Donald J. Trump. I still strongly support and love the USA, many flaws though we have.
Keep on doing what you believe in Kaepernick, we all need to try to make it a better world...day by day.
a discussion here can be different than how I talk to people because I don't have any americans in my in-person daily life, and the issue of patriotism doesn't often come up in my circle, or at my work. it just doesn't. it is quite rare to see a canadian flag flying on someone's house. it's just not an issue. it's only an issue, in my experience, when it's used as a reason to show intolerance to others and how people need to respect our traditions. then all of a sudden people seem to give a shit about "preserving our canadian heritage". AKA: genocide and oppression of minorities. But "canadian heritage" sounds nicer.
do you really think the majority of people, or even a minority, who sing the national anthem at sporting events have any clue what the connection is of patriotism to sports? no, they just do it because it's expected. like saying the lord's prayer at thanksgiving, or taking your hat off during the anthem. americans and canadians alike.
however, if it does come up, I talk as I spoke here. But it doesn't come up in the same context. people here don't speak in terms of being a patriot. that's a largely american term. they just say "canadian". I can't imagine someone going ballistic at a CFL game if someone remained seated. they'd get looks, but it would go largely unnoticed. if players knelt in the CFL, it would not be nearly as polarizing as it is in the US. not even close.
I appreciate where I live. I feel very grateful to live in Canada. That is not patriotism. that is feeling fortunate for my surroundings and my upbringing and the geographical lottery I won.
patriotism is a recruitment tool and a way to keep people in check. nothing more.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
a discussion here can be different than how I talk to people because I don't have any americans in my in-person daily life, and the issue of patriotism doesn't often come up in my circle, or at my work. it just doesn't. it is quite rare to see a canadian flag flying on someone's house. it's just not an issue. it's only an issue, in my experience, when it's used as a reason to show intolerance to others and how people need to respect our traditions. then all of a sudden people seem to give a shit about "preserving our canadian heritage". AKA: genocide and oppression of minorities. But "canadian heritage" sounds nicer.
do you really think the majority of people, or even a minority, who sing the national anthem at sporting events have any clue what the connection is of patriotism to sports? no, they just do it because it's expected. like saying the lord's prayer at thanksgiving, or taking your hat off during the anthem. americans and canadians alike.
however, if it does come up, I talk as I spoke here. But it doesn't come up in the same context. people here don't speak in terms of being a patriot. that's a largely american term. they just say "canadian". I can't imagine someone going ballistic at a CFL game if someone remained seated. they'd get looks, but it would go largely unnoticed. if players knelt in the CFL, it would not be nearly as polarizing as it is in the US. not even close.
I appreciate where I live. I feel very grateful to live in Canada. That is not patriotism. that is feeling fortunate for my surroundings and my upbringing and the geographical lottery I won.
patriotism is a recruitment tool and a way to keep people in check. nothing more.
Well said.
0
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,389
do you really think the majority of people, or even a minority, who sing
the national anthem at sporting events have any clue what the
connection is of patriotism to sports? no, they just do it because it's
expected. like saying the lord's prayer at thanksgiving, or taking your
hat off during the anthem. americans and canadians alike.
Yes, I do think the majority of people who sing the national anthem at sporting events can tell you why they sing the anthem and why they believe in patriotism. The conversation of if it should be performed at sporting events is a different topic...
We can agree to disagree on the rest. One of the first things I did after buying my house was to dig a hole, get a flagpole & a flag, light that pole up, and proudly run the flag up the flagpole. The dictionary can join me in disagreeing with your definition of patriotism...but it is certainly up to you to make up definitions to words that fit what you think they should mean.
Atari dashboard by richter. (That means "Have A Great Day!" in my dictionary. )
do you really think the majority of people, or even a minority, who sing
the national anthem at sporting events have any clue what the
connection is of patriotism to sports? no, they just do it because it's
expected. like saying the lord's prayer at thanksgiving, or taking your
hat off during the anthem. americans and canadians alike.
Yes, I do think the majority of people who sing the national anthem at sporting events can tell you why they sing the anthem and why they believe in patriotism. The conversation of if it should be performed at sporting events is a different topic...
We can agree to disagree on the rest. One of the first things I did after buying my house was to dig a hole, get a flagpole & a flag, light that pole up, and proudly run the flag up the flagpole. The dictionary can join me in disagreeing with your definition of patriotism...but it is certainly up to you to make up definitions to words that fit what you think they should mean.
Atari dashboard by richter. (That means "Have A Great Day!" in my dictionary. )
Definition of patriotism
:love for or devotion to one's country
what did I say that is untrue?
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
do you really think the majority of people, or even a minority, who sing
the national anthem at sporting events have any clue what the
connection is of patriotism to sports? no, they just do it because it's
expected. like saying the lord's prayer at thanksgiving, or taking your
hat off during the anthem. americans and canadians alike.
Yes, I do think the majority of people who sing the national anthem at sporting events can tell you why they sing the anthem and why they believe in patriotism. The conversation of if it should be performed at sporting events is a different topic...
We can agree to disagree on the rest. One of the first things I did after buying my house was to dig a hole, get a flagpole & a flag, light that pole up, and proudly run the flag up the flagpole. The dictionary can join me in disagreeing with your definition of patriotism...but it is certainly up to you to make up definitions to words that fit what you think they should mean.
Atari dashboard by richter. (That means "Have A Great Day!" in my dictionary. )
that wasn't what I asked. I asked you think people knew why they sing the national anthem SPECIFICALLY at sporting events? I stand by my assertion that the vast majority have zero clue.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I think there are some who would say that Patriotism is something that goes as deeply as an emotion can go.
Strong support for one's country does not necessarily mean you support a 'cultivation of fear and ignorance', and I would put out there that Patriotism does not mean that you feel 'you are better for no other reason that being born in a certain geographic area.'
Hey, you can believe what you want. My opinion is that your statement is a pretty harsh judgement on a big group of people (people who would define themselves as 'Patriotic') and that it might be slightly antagonistic toward many, many people. This sort of rhetoric is part of the problem today, in my opinion.
As stated before here, I do not think that Mr Kaepernick shows any lack of Patriotism because he chooses to kneel in silent protest during the playing of the National Anthem at a sporting event. Based on his actions, I believe he has a very strong support for his country....he also is working to draw attention to some things he feels need to be changed in his country.
we are having a discussion on a message board. I'm not walking around with a sign on my back saying "patriots are idiots".
I can understand patriotism if you are, say, a military family. hey, you gotta have a strong emotional connection to your country if you are willing to die for it. But I'm talking about the average citizen who sing the national anthem at a sporting event without even considering why. or telling others they need to take their hat off, and when you ask why, all they can utter is "it's disrespectful", but they have zero idea why.
I don't know if Kaepernick is a patriot or not. I don't think his protest has anything to do with it either way. all he's highlighting is the gross inequality in the US towards minorities.
Why is a discussion here different than how you speak with people irl?
What if (for example) you just love your country because you can look at your grandparents and see that 3 out of 4 of them came to this country from other places? (Italy x2, PR x1) The 4th grandparent saw his parents come from some other country. (Ireland) They all came to this country to try and live better lives -- for themselves, and for their families. Each generation has done a better than the previous one when it comes to jobs, financial stability, and education....to the point where I do things now for my family that I am sure my grandparents, were they alive, would be blown away by. This is because of the opportunity this country allowed hard working people who took advantage of the right conditions for them, personally, and parlayed that into a better future. I love my country. I am puzzled by the direction we are taking, and certainly dismayed by the actions of some of our citizens.
It is my opinion that not every immigrant had the same journey as my family did. I respect their opinions about their country, they are no doubt shaped by the realities that they (and theirs) experienced.
Your assumption is that the "average citizen" would not have any idea as to how to express themselves relative to their beliefs. I again find this, imo, to be presumptuous and inflammatory. It is your right to feel that way -- and to tell others you think so little of them -- but I do not happen to agree. Not sure what you are basing the opinion on, although I guess it does not matter. It is what you believe & real to you. I think if you came here, went to a sporting event, and asked people, that they would be able to tell you why they stand and salute....and why the symbol of this country is important to them.
I think if you read some of what Kaepernick has shared, he has expressed his admiration of our troops, his appreciation for what this country has given to him & many others...and at the same time that he is certainly trying to address how some are treated & how this treatment (in his opinion) is widely ignored. He initially sat during the anthem and then moved to the sideline and kneeled, saying he felt that was showing his respect for the flag & also his belief in others noting the need for changes. (Paraphrasing, certainly, that is my recollection of what he indicated at the time.)
Overall, it seems we agree in supporting his right to kneel, his right to support causes he believes in...we disconnect on the definition of Patriotism and the belief system the 'Average American' has when it comes to Patriotism. That is OK. You can lump Patriots all together in your beliefs.
I will continue to practice Pastafarianism as my religion (jokingly) & also to stand and salute the symbol of our country, its great history, the people who have fought for us & continue to serve, and what that means to me & has meant to my family. (And, to support the rights of Kaepernick to try and cause positive change in our society, where I also agree we need many positive changes.)
It makes me smile to know that some of our neighbors to the north are so concerned about us, while at the same time thinking that the Patriots in the US are such ignorant followers of our leaders, cheering on the cultivation of ignorance....all the while thinking we are better than everyone else because of where we were born.
I am a Patriot. I strongly support the USA. I do not agree with Donald J. Trump...I did not vote for Donald J. Trump. I still strongly support and love the USA, many flaws though we have.
Keep on doing what you believe in Kaepernick, we all need to try to make it a better world...day by day.
very well said. I don't quite understand why it bothers non-Americans that a lot of people in this country love their country and are patriotic towards it.
I think there are some who would say that Patriotism is something that goes as deeply as an emotion can go.
Strong support for one's country does not necessarily mean you support a 'cultivation of fear and ignorance', and I would put out there that Patriotism does not mean that you feel 'you are better for no other reason that being born in a certain geographic area.'
Hey, you can believe what you want. My opinion is that your statement is a pretty harsh judgement on a big group of people (people who would define themselves as 'Patriotic') and that it might be slightly antagonistic toward many, many people. This sort of rhetoric is part of the problem today, in my opinion.
As stated before here, I do not think that Mr Kaepernick shows any lack of Patriotism because he chooses to kneel in silent protest during the playing of the National Anthem at a sporting event. Based on his actions, I believe he has a very strong support for his country....he also is working to draw attention to some things he feels need to be changed in his country.
we are having a discussion on a message board. I'm not walking around with a sign on my back saying "patriots are idiots".
I can understand patriotism if you are, say, a military family. hey, you gotta have a strong emotional connection to your country if you are willing to die for it. But I'm talking about the average citizen who sing the national anthem at a sporting event without even considering why. or telling others they need to take their hat off, and when you ask why, all they can utter is "it's disrespectful", but they have zero idea why.
I don't know if Kaepernick is a patriot or not. I don't think his protest has anything to do with it either way. all he's highlighting is the gross inequality in the US towards minorities.
Why is a discussion here different than how you speak with people irl?
What if (for example) you just love your country because you can look at your grandparents and see that 3 out of 4 of them came to this country from other places? (Italy x2, PR x1) The 4th grandparent saw his parents come from some other country. (Ireland) They all came to this country to try and live better lives -- for themselves, and for their families. Each generation has done a better than the previous one when it comes to jobs, financial stability, and education....to the point where I do things now for my family that I am sure my grandparents, were they alive, would be blown away by. This is because of the opportunity this country allowed hard working people who took advantage of the right conditions for them, personally, and parlayed that into a better future. I love my country. I am puzzled by the direction we are taking, and certainly dismayed by the actions of some of our citizens.
It is my opinion that not every immigrant had the same journey as my family did. I respect their opinions about their country, they are no doubt shaped by the realities that they (and theirs) experienced.
Your assumption is that the "average citizen" would not have any idea as to how to express themselves relative to their beliefs. I again find this, imo, to be presumptuous and inflammatory. It is your right to feel that way -- and to tell others you think so little of them -- but I do not happen to agree. Not sure what you are basing the opinion on, although I guess it does not matter. It is what you believe & real to you. I think if you came here, went to a sporting event, and asked people, that they would be able to tell you why they stand and salute....and why the symbol of this country is important to them.
I think if you read some of what Kaepernick has shared, he has expressed his admiration of our troops, his appreciation for what this country has given to him & many others...and at the same time that he is certainly trying to address how some are treated & how this treatment (in his opinion) is widely ignored. He initially sat during the anthem and then moved to the sideline and kneeled, saying he felt that was showing his respect for the flag & also his belief in others noting the need for changes. (Paraphrasing, certainly, that is my recollection of what he indicated at the time.)
Overall, it seems we agree in supporting his right to kneel, his right to support causes he believes in...we disconnect on the definition of Patriotism and the belief system the 'Average American' has when it comes to Patriotism. That is OK. You can lump Patriots all together in your beliefs.
I will continue to practice Pastafarianism as my religion (jokingly) & also to stand and salute the symbol of our country, its great history, the people who have fought for us & continue to serve, and what that means to me & has meant to my family. (And, to support the rights of Kaepernick to try and cause positive change in our society, where I also agree we need many positive changes.)
It makes me smile to know that some of our neighbors to the north are so concerned about us, while at the same time thinking that the Patriots in the US are such ignorant followers of our leaders, cheering on the cultivation of ignorance....all the while thinking we are better than everyone else because of where we were born.
I am a Patriot. I strongly support the USA. I do not agree with Donald J. Trump...I did not vote for Donald J. Trump. I still strongly support and love the USA, many flaws though we have.
Keep on doing what you believe in Kaepernick, we all need to try to make it a better world...day by day.
do you really think the majority of people, or even a minority, who sing
the national anthem at sporting events have any clue what the
connection is of patriotism to sports? no, they just do it because it's
expected. like saying the lord's prayer at thanksgiving, or taking your
hat off during the anthem. americans and canadians alike.
Yes, I do think the majority of people who sing the national anthem at sporting events can tell you why they sing the anthem and why they believe in patriotism. The conversation of if it should be performed at sporting events is a different topic...
We can agree to disagree on the rest. One of the first things I did after buying my house was to dig a hole, get a flagpole & a flag, light that pole up, and proudly run the flag up the flagpole. The dictionary can join me in disagreeing with your definition of patriotism...but it is certainly up to you to make up definitions to words that fit what you think they should mean.
Atari dashboard by richter. (That means "Have A Great Day!" in my dictionary. )
that wasn't what I asked. I asked you think people knew why they sing the national anthem SPECIFICALLY at sporting events? I stand by my assertion that the vast majority have zero clue.
As you can see by other comments Hugh it is ingrained and pounded into our brains since birth. Luckily, very slowly, the tide is turning.
0
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,389
do you really think the majority of people, or even a minority, who sing
the national anthem at sporting events have any clue what the
connection is of patriotism to sports? no, they just do it because it's
expected. like saying the lord's prayer at thanksgiving, or taking your
hat off during the anthem. americans and canadians alike.
Yes, I do think the majority of people who sing the national anthem at sporting events can tell you why they sing the anthem and why they believe in patriotism. The conversation of if it should be performed at sporting events is a different topic...
We can agree to disagree on the rest. One of the first things I did after buying my house was to dig a hole, get a flagpole & a flag, light that pole up, and proudly run the flag up the flagpole. The dictionary can join me in disagreeing with your definition of patriotism...but it is certainly up to you to make up definitions to words that fit what you think they should mean.
Atari dashboard by richter. (That means "Have A Great Day!" in my dictionary. )
Definition of patriotism
:love for or devotion to one's country
what did I say that is untrue?
These are 2 things you wrote today that are not part of the definition of Patriotism by those who define what words mean. Granted, you are allowed to make up your own meanings to words..
patriotism is a recruitment tool and a way to keep people in check. nothing more.
patriotism is just blindly following your government and their
cultivation of fear and ignorance thinking you are better for no other
reason than being born in a certain geographical location.
The love he receives is the love that is saved
0
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,389
do you really think the majority of people, or even a minority, who sing
the national anthem at sporting events have any clue what the
connection is of patriotism to sports? no, they just do it because it's
expected. like saying the lord's prayer at thanksgiving, or taking your
hat off during the anthem. americans and canadians alike.
Yes, I do think the majority of people who sing the national anthem at sporting events can tell you why they sing the anthem and why they believe in patriotism. The conversation of if it should be performed at sporting events is a different topic...
We can agree to disagree on the rest. One of the first things I did after buying my house was to dig a hole, get a flagpole & a flag, light that pole up, and proudly run the flag up the flagpole. The dictionary can join me in disagreeing with your definition of patriotism...but it is certainly up to you to make up definitions to words that fit what you think they should mean.
Atari dashboard by richter. (That means "Have A Great Day!" in my dictionary. )
that wasn't what I asked. I asked you think people knew why they sing the national anthem SPECIFICALLY at sporting events? I stand by my assertion that the vast majority have zero clue.
OK...I do not have any idea if most people would be able to come up with the reason that you feel is true as to why the national anthem is sung before sporting events, specifically. My guess is that the answer most people would give would be 'to honor our country' and I can understand that. I think that there are other answers that could also be given that could be correct....and recruitment and/or budget support associated with the military could certainly be one of them. So if the NFL (and others) are shills for the military does that mean that people should not stand and salute the flag they believe in, if this is what they want to do? Doesn't mean they are mindless zombies.
I think there are some who would say that Patriotism is something that goes as deeply as an emotion can go.
Strong support for one's country does not necessarily mean you support a 'cultivation of fear and ignorance', and I would put out there that Patriotism does not mean that you feel 'you are better for no other reason that being born in a certain geographic area.'
Hey, you can believe what you want. My opinion is that your statement is a pretty harsh judgement on a big group of people (people who would define themselves as 'Patriotic') and that it might be slightly antagonistic toward many, many people. This sort of rhetoric is part of the problem today, in my opinion.
As stated before here, I do not think that Mr Kaepernick shows any lack of Patriotism because he chooses to kneel in silent protest during the playing of the National Anthem at a sporting event. Based on his actions, I believe he has a very strong support for his country....he also is working to draw attention to some things he feels need to be changed in his country.
we are having a discussion on a message board. I'm not walking around with a sign on my back saying "patriots are idiots".
I can understand patriotism if you are, say, a military family. hey, you gotta have a strong emotional connection to your country if you are willing to die for it. But I'm talking about the average citizen who sing the national anthem at a sporting event without even considering why. or telling others they need to take their hat off, and when you ask why, all they can utter is "it's disrespectful", but they have zero idea why.
I don't know if Kaepernick is a patriot or not. I don't think his protest has anything to do with it either way. all he's highlighting is the gross inequality in the US towards minorities.
Why is a discussion here different than how you speak with people irl?
What if (for example) you just love your country because you can look at your grandparents and see that 3 out of 4 of them came to this country from other places? (Italy x2, PR x1) The 4th grandparent saw his parents come from some other country. (Ireland) They all came to this country to try and live better lives -- for themselves, and for their families. Each generation has done a better than the previous one when it comes to jobs, financial stability, and education....to the point where I do things now for my family that I am sure my grandparents, were they alive, would be blown away by. This is because of the opportunity this country allowed hard working people who took advantage of the right conditions for them, personally, and parlayed that into a better future. I love my country. I am puzzled by the direction we are taking, and certainly dismayed by the actions of some of our citizens.
It is my opinion that not every immigrant had the same journey as my family did. I respect their opinions about their country, they are no doubt shaped by the realities that they (and theirs) experienced.
Your assumption is that the "average citizen" would not have any idea as to how to express themselves relative to their beliefs. I again find this, imo, to be presumptuous and inflammatory. It is your right to feel that way -- and to tell others you think so little of them -- but I do not happen to agree. Not sure what you are basing the opinion on, although I guess it does not matter. It is what you believe & real to you. I think if you came here, went to a sporting event, and asked people, that they would be able to tell you why they stand and salute....and why the symbol of this country is important to them.
I think if you read some of what Kaepernick has shared, he has expressed his admiration of our troops, his appreciation for what this country has given to him & many others...and at the same time that he is certainly trying to address how some are treated & how this treatment (in his opinion) is widely ignored. He initially sat during the anthem and then moved to the sideline and kneeled, saying he felt that was showing his respect for the flag & also his belief in others noting the need for changes. (Paraphrasing, certainly, that is my recollection of what he indicated at the time.)
Overall, it seems we agree in supporting his right to kneel, his right to support causes he believes in...we disconnect on the definition of Patriotism and the belief system the 'Average American' has when it comes to Patriotism. That is OK. You can lump Patriots all together in your beliefs.
I will continue to practice Pastafarianism as my religion (jokingly) & also to stand and salute the symbol of our country, its great history, the people who have fought for us & continue to serve, and what that means to me & has meant to my family. (And, to support the rights of Kaepernick to try and cause positive change in our society, where I also agree we need many positive changes.)
It makes me smile to know that some of our neighbors to the north are so concerned about us, while at the same time thinking that the Patriots in the US are such ignorant followers of our leaders, cheering on the cultivation of ignorance....all the while thinking we are better than everyone else because of where we were born.
I am a Patriot. I strongly support the USA. I do not agree with Donald J. Trump...I did not vote for Donald J. Trump. I still strongly support and love the USA, many flaws though we have.
Keep on doing what you believe in Kaepernick, we all need to try to make it a better world...day by day.
very well said. I don't quite understand why it bothers non-Americans that a lot of people in this country love their country and are patriotic towards it.
it doesn't bother me. nothing I said points to it "bothering" me.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
do you really think the majority of people, or even a minority, who sing
the national anthem at sporting events have any clue what the
connection is of patriotism to sports? no, they just do it because it's
expected. like saying the lord's prayer at thanksgiving, or taking your
hat off during the anthem. americans and canadians alike.
Yes, I do think the majority of people who sing the national anthem at sporting events can tell you why they sing the anthem and why they believe in patriotism. The conversation of if it should be performed at sporting events is a different topic...
We can agree to disagree on the rest. One of the first things I did after buying my house was to dig a hole, get a flagpole & a flag, light that pole up, and proudly run the flag up the flagpole. The dictionary can join me in disagreeing with your definition of patriotism...but it is certainly up to you to make up definitions to words that fit what you think they should mean.
Atari dashboard by richter. (That means "Have A Great Day!" in my dictionary. )
Definition of patriotism
:love for or devotion to one's country
what did I say that is untrue?
These are 2 things you wrote today that are not part of the definition of Patriotism by those who define what words mean. Granted, you are allowed to make up your own meanings to words..
patriotism is a recruitment tool and a way to keep people in check. nothing more.
patriotism is just blindly following your government and their
cultivation of fear and ignorance thinking you are better for no other
reason than being born in a certain geographical location.
a definition of a word is different than my interpretation of how it is utilized. however, I believe that "devotion to one's country" falls in line with both of the above statements.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
do you really think the majority of people, or even a minority, who sing
the national anthem at sporting events have any clue what the
connection is of patriotism to sports? no, they just do it because it's
expected. like saying the lord's prayer at thanksgiving, or taking your
hat off during the anthem. americans and canadians alike.
Yes, I do think the majority of people who sing the national anthem at sporting events can tell you why they sing the anthem and why they believe in patriotism. The conversation of if it should be performed at sporting events is a different topic...
We can agree to disagree on the rest. One of the first things I did after buying my house was to dig a hole, get a flagpole & a flag, light that pole up, and proudly run the flag up the flagpole. The dictionary can join me in disagreeing with your definition of patriotism...but it is certainly up to you to make up definitions to words that fit what you think they should mean.
Atari dashboard by richter. (That means "Have A Great Day!" in my dictionary. )
that wasn't what I asked. I asked you think people knew why they sing the national anthem SPECIFICALLY at sporting events? I stand by my assertion that the vast majority have zero clue.
OK...I do not have any idea if most people would be able to come up with the reason that you feel is true as to why the national anthem is sung before sporting events, specifically. My guess is that the answer most people would give would be 'to honor our country' and I can understand that. I think that there are other answers that could also be given that could be correct....and recruitment and/or budget support associated with the military could certainly be one of them. So if the NFL (and others) are shills for the military does that mean that people should not stand and salute the flag they believe in, if this is what they want to do? Doesn't mean they are mindless zombies.
no, I never said they shouldn't or should do anything. they can do as they wish. However, it has become quite obvious many american disagree (about half, according to a CNN poll), and that you are REQUIRED to follow blindly without question (the president and his followers). And I don't think anyone are "mindless zombies". I just think that most people don't question things. Hell, I didn't question this until a couple years ago, and I'm 43. I'm not judging anyone for not questioning it anymore than I think someone should have judged me for not questioning it 5 years ago. Just pointing out things as I see them.
I think the general public can be very easily fooled into believing a shitload of things; I'm sure I've fallen victim countless times. If it is not immediately obvious that it is possibly a negative, why question it? Patriotism has been ingrained as a POSITIVE trait over the generations.
Patriotism is fine in a mild form, as most americans likely adhere to. It's the nutjobs who think flag and country supercede all else that I find scary, and almost like a mental illness.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I think there are some who would say that Patriotism is something that goes as deeply as an emotion can go.
Strong support for one's country does not necessarily mean you support a 'cultivation of fear and ignorance', and I would put out there that Patriotism does not mean that you feel 'you are better for no other reason that being born in a certain geographic area.'
Hey, you can believe what you want. My opinion is that your statement is a pretty harsh judgement on a big group of people (people who would define themselves as 'Patriotic') and that it might be slightly antagonistic toward many, many people. This sort of rhetoric is part of the problem today, in my opinion.
As stated before here, I do not think that Mr Kaepernick shows any lack of Patriotism because he chooses to kneel in silent protest during the playing of the National Anthem at a sporting event. Based on his actions, I believe he has a very strong support for his country....he also is working to draw attention to some things he feels need to be changed in his country.
we are having a discussion on a message board. I'm not walking around with a sign on my back saying "patriots are idiots".
I can understand patriotism if you are, say, a military family. hey, you gotta have a strong emotional connection to your country if you are willing to die for it. But I'm talking about the average citizen who sing the national anthem at a sporting event without even considering why. or telling others they need to take their hat off, and when you ask why, all they can utter is "it's disrespectful", but they have zero idea why.
I don't know if Kaepernick is a patriot or not. I don't think his protest has anything to do with it either way. all he's highlighting is the gross inequality in the US towards minorities.
Why is a discussion here different than how you speak with people irl?
What if (for example) you just love your country because you can look at your grandparents and see that 3 out of 4 of them came to this country from other places? (Italy x2, PR x1) The 4th grandparent saw his parents come from some other country. (Ireland) They all came to this country to try and live better lives -- for themselves, and for their families. Each generation has done a better than the previous one when it comes to jobs, financial stability, and education....to the point where I do things now for my family that I am sure my grandparents, were they alive, would be blown away by. This is because of the opportunity this country allowed hard working people who took advantage of the right conditions for them, personally, and parlayed that into a better future. I love my country. I am puzzled by the direction we are taking, and certainly dismayed by the actions of some of our citizens.
It is my opinion that not every immigrant had the same journey as my family did. I respect their opinions about their country, they are no doubt shaped by the realities that they (and theirs) experienced.
Your assumption is that the "average citizen" would not have any idea as to how to express themselves relative to their beliefs. I again find this, imo, to be presumptuous and inflammatory. It is your right to feel that way -- and to tell others you think so little of them -- but I do not happen to agree. Not sure what you are basing the opinion on, although I guess it does not matter. It is what you believe & real to you. I think if you came here, went to a sporting event, and asked people, that they would be able to tell you why they stand and salute....and why the symbol of this country is important to them.
I think if you read some of what Kaepernick has shared, he has expressed his admiration of our troops, his appreciation for what this country has given to him & many others...and at the same time that he is certainly trying to address how some are treated & how this treatment (in his opinion) is widely ignored. He initially sat during the anthem and then moved to the sideline and kneeled, saying he felt that was showing his respect for the flag & also his belief in others noting the need for changes. (Paraphrasing, certainly, that is my recollection of what he indicated at the time.)
Overall, it seems we agree in supporting his right to kneel, his right to support causes he believes in...we disconnect on the definition of Patriotism and the belief system the 'Average American' has when it comes to Patriotism. That is OK. You can lump Patriots all together in your beliefs.
I will continue to practice Pastafarianism as my religion (jokingly) & also to stand and salute the symbol of our country, its great history, the people who have fought for us & continue to serve, and what that means to me & has meant to my family. (And, to support the rights of Kaepernick to try and cause positive change in our society, where I also agree we need many positive changes.)
It makes me smile to know that some of our neighbors to the north are so concerned about us, while at the same time thinking that the Patriots in the US are such ignorant followers of our leaders, cheering on the cultivation of ignorance....all the while thinking we are better than everyone else because of where we were born.
I am a Patriot. I strongly support the USA. I do not agree with Donald J. Trump...I did not vote for Donald J. Trump. I still strongly support and love the USA, many flaws though we have.
Keep on doing what you believe in Kaepernick, we all need to try to make it a better world...day by day.
very well said. I don't quite understand why it bothers non-Americans that a lot of people in this country love their country and are patriotic towards it.
however, I will ask you......do you not see the relation of american patriotism and:
-bigotry and racism (hello, travel ban/fear of immigration-and yes, the latter predates Trump) -the wars america has waged in the name of "liberating" others to be more american-like? the reasons those wars are actually waged have zero to do with patriotism, but the recruitment of troops is all patriotism and "love for/duty towards country".
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I think there are some who would say that Patriotism is something that goes as deeply as an emotion can go.
Strong support for one's country does not necessarily mean you support a 'cultivation of fear and ignorance', and I would put out there that Patriotism does not mean that you feel 'you are better for no other reason that being born in a certain geographic area.'
Hey, you can believe what you want. My opinion is that your statement is a pretty harsh judgement on a big group of people (people who would define themselves as 'Patriotic') and that it might be slightly antagonistic toward many, many people. This sort of rhetoric is part of the problem today, in my opinion.
As stated before here, I do not think that Mr Kaepernick shows any lack of Patriotism because he chooses to kneel in silent protest during the playing of the National Anthem at a sporting event. Based on his actions, I believe he has a very strong support for his country....he also is working to draw attention to some things he feels need to be changed in his country.
we are having a discussion on a message board. I'm not walking around with a sign on my back saying "patriots are idiots".
I can understand patriotism if you are, say, a military family. hey, you gotta have a strong emotional connection to your country if you are willing to die for it. But I'm talking about the average citizen who sing the national anthem at a sporting event without even considering why. or telling others they need to take their hat off, and when you ask why, all they can utter is "it's disrespectful", but they have zero idea why.
I don't know if Kaepernick is a patriot or not. I don't think his protest has anything to do with it either way. all he's highlighting is the gross inequality in the US towards minorities.
Why is a discussion here different than how you speak with people irl?
What if (for example) you just love your country because you can look at your grandparents and see that 3 out of 4 of them came to this country from other places? (Italy x2, PR x1) The 4th grandparent saw his parents come from some other country. (Ireland) They all came to this country to try and live better lives -- for themselves, and for their families. Each generation has done a better than the previous one when it comes to jobs, financial stability, and education....to the point where I do things now for my family that I am sure my grandparents, were they alive, would be blown away by. This is because of the opportunity this country allowed hard working people who took advantage of the right conditions for them, personally, and parlayed that into a better future. I love my country. I am puzzled by the direction we are taking, and certainly dismayed by the actions of some of our citizens.
It is my opinion that not every immigrant had the same journey as my family did. I respect their opinions about their country, they are no doubt shaped by the realities that they (and theirs) experienced.
Your assumption is that the "average citizen" would not have any idea as to how to express themselves relative to their beliefs. I again find this, imo, to be presumptuous and inflammatory. It is your right to feel that way -- and to tell others you think so little of them -- but I do not happen to agree. Not sure what you are basing the opinion on, although I guess it does not matter. It is what you believe & real to you. I think if you came here, went to a sporting event, and asked people, that they would be able to tell you why they stand and salute....and why the symbol of this country is important to them.
I think if you read some of what Kaepernick has shared, he has expressed his admiration of our troops, his appreciation for what this country has given to him & many others...and at the same time that he is certainly trying to address how some are treated & how this treatment (in his opinion) is widely ignored. He initially sat during the anthem and then moved to the sideline and kneeled, saying he felt that was showing his respect for the flag & also his belief in others noting the need for changes. (Paraphrasing, certainly, that is my recollection of what he indicated at the time.)
Overall, it seems we agree in supporting his right to kneel, his right to support causes he believes in...we disconnect on the definition of Patriotism and the belief system the 'Average American' has when it comes to Patriotism. That is OK. You can lump Patriots all together in your beliefs.
I will continue to practice Pastafarianism as my religion (jokingly) & also to stand and salute the symbol of our country, its great history, the people who have fought for us & continue to serve, and what that means to me & has meant to my family. (And, to support the rights of Kaepernick to try and cause positive change in our society, where I also agree we need many positive changes.)
It makes me smile to know that some of our neighbors to the north are so concerned about us, while at the same time thinking that the Patriots in the US are such ignorant followers of our leaders, cheering on the cultivation of ignorance....all the while thinking we are better than everyone else because of where we were born.
I am a Patriot. I strongly support the USA. I do not agree with Donald J. Trump...I did not vote for Donald J. Trump. I still strongly support and love the USA, many flaws though we have.
Keep on doing what you believe in Kaepernick, we all need to try to make it a better world...day by day.
very well said. I don't quite understand why it bothers non-Americans that a lot of people in this country love their country and are patriotic towards it.
it doesn't bother me. nothing I said points to it "bothering" me.
I was out for lunch with a buddy, and golf was on the big screen. I asked him "do the play the national anthem at the first hole in golf? is Tiger Woods kneeling? nope. why in some sports and not all? right, because they know they aren't recruiting golf fans to the military with false patriotism. wrong demographic".
aren't you Canadian? is it false patriotism when the Canadian teams do it?
yes it is. I think it's stupid no matter where you live. unfortunately, many people in canada think the way to move culturally is to mimic whatever the US does. I'd like canada to stop acting like America's little brother and get our own identity.
the CFL has adopted military appreciation day, and we have jet flyovers after the anthem; it's ridiculousness.
the above quotes don't indicate that it bothers you? false patriotism, it's stupid, canada stop acting like america's little brother, flyers are ridiculous? sure seems like it's got you all bothered
0
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,389
do you really think the majority of people, or even a minority, who sing
the national anthem at sporting events have any clue what the
connection is of patriotism to sports? no, they just do it because it's
expected. like saying the lord's prayer at thanksgiving, or taking your
hat off during the anthem. americans and canadians alike.
Yes, I do think the majority of people who sing the national anthem at sporting events can tell you why they sing the anthem and why they believe in patriotism. The conversation of if it should be performed at sporting events is a different topic...
We can agree to disagree on the rest. One of the first things I did after buying my house was to dig a hole, get a flagpole & a flag, light that pole up, and proudly run the flag up the flagpole. The dictionary can join me in disagreeing with your definition of patriotism...but it is certainly up to you to make up definitions to words that fit what you think they should mean.
Atari dashboard by richter. (That means "Have A Great Day!" in my dictionary. )
Definition of patriotism
:love for or devotion to one's country
what did I say that is untrue?
These are 2 things you wrote today that are not part of the definition of Patriotism by those who define what words mean. Granted, you are allowed to make up your own meanings to words..
patriotism is a recruitment tool and a way to keep people in check. nothing more.
patriotism is just blindly following your government and their
cultivation of fear and ignorance thinking you are better for no other
reason than being born in a certain geographical location.
a definition of a word is different than my interpretation of how it is utilized. however, I believe that "devotion to one's country" falls in line with both of the above statements.
In my opinion, that is a cop out....it seems you are re-defining the word for sensational reasons. The tabloid approach, trying as much to get a reaction as much as anything else. Leaving for meetings, we will have to just agree to disagree and discuss another day.
Comments
patriotism, though........
-EV 8/14/93
Easily manipulated. Their target audience.
I don't see how that makes sense.
I don't believe in telling people what to do, so long as they are not harming (or posing a risk to) others. If you want to burn a cross or salute a flag, it is your right. Don't push your deal on me. I pass judgements every day on things that I see -- like I would automatically assume someone burning a cross was an asshole -- but who is to say what my judgements are hold any more weight than the judgements of others.
I judge. Oh yes, I judge. I would go so far as to say I think we all judge.
Some of us just think our judgements should (or worse, need to be) be how others think as well.
*edit - I should note that, at times, I forget this basic logic and try to convince others to think how I do. This is silly, to me, and I usually correct course pretty quickly. No problem sharing my opinion, just try to remember to state it is my opinion and allow others to continue thinking what they like.
I find the reaches of faith go far deeper than a sense of patriotism. there is an emotional and unknown component to it that can't be quantified. i can understand the need for faith.
patriotism is just blindly following your government and their cultivation of fear and ignorance thinking you are better for no other reason than being born in a certain geographical location.
-EV 8/14/93
Neither makes sense to me.
I think there are some who would say that Patriotism is something that goes as deeply as an emotion can go.
Strong support for one's country does not necessarily mean you support a 'cultivation of fear and ignorance', and I would put out there that Patriotism does not mean that you feel 'you are better for no other reason that being born in a certain geographic area.'
Hey, you can believe what you want. My opinion is that your statement is a pretty harsh judgement on a big group of people (people who would define themselves as 'Patriotic') and that it might be slightly antagonistic toward many, many people. This sort of rhetoric is part of the problem today, in my opinion.
As stated before here, I do not think that Mr Kaepernick shows any lack of Patriotism because he chooses to kneel in silent protest during the playing of the National Anthem at a sporting event. Based on his actions, I believe he has a very strong support for his country....he also is working to draw attention to some things he feels need to be changed in his country.
I can understand patriotism if you are, say, a military family. hey, you gotta have a strong emotional connection to your country if you are willing to die for it. But I'm talking about the average citizen who sing the national anthem at a sporting event without even considering why. or telling others they need to take their hat off, and when you ask why, all they can utter is "it's disrespectful", but they have zero idea why.
I don't know if Kaepernick is a patriot or not. I don't think his protest has anything to do with it either way. all he's highlighting is the gross inequality in the US towards minorities.
-EV 8/14/93
What if (for example) you just love your country because you can look at your grandparents and see that 3 out of 4 of them came to this country from other places? (Italy x2, PR x1) The 4th grandparent saw his parents come from some other country. (Ireland)
They all came to this country to try and live better lives -- for themselves, and for their families.
Each generation has done a better than the previous one when it comes to jobs, financial stability, and education....to the point where I do things now for my family that I am sure my grandparents, were they alive, would be blown away by.
This is because of the opportunity this country allowed hard working people who took advantage of the right conditions for them, personally, and parlayed that into a better future.
I love my country. I am puzzled by the direction we are taking, and certainly dismayed by the actions of some of our citizens.
It is my opinion that not every immigrant had the same journey as my family did. I respect their opinions about their country, they are no doubt shaped by the realities that they (and theirs) experienced.
Your assumption is that the "average citizen" would not have any idea as to how to express themselves relative to their beliefs. I again find this, imo, to be presumptuous and inflammatory. It is your right to feel that way -- and to tell others you think so little of them -- but I do not happen to agree. Not sure what you are basing the opinion on, although I guess it does not matter. It is what you believe & real to you. I think if you came here, went to a sporting event, and asked people, that they would be able to tell you why they stand and salute....and why the symbol of this country is important to them.
I think if you read some of what Kaepernick has shared, he has expressed his admiration of our troops, his appreciation for what this country has given to him & many others...and at the same time that he is certainly trying to address how some are treated & how this treatment (in his opinion) is widely ignored.
He initially sat during the anthem and then moved to the sideline and kneeled, saying he felt that was showing his respect for the flag & also his belief in others noting the need for changes. (Paraphrasing, certainly, that is my recollection of what he indicated at the time.)
Overall, it seems we agree in supporting his right to kneel, his right to support causes he believes in...we disconnect on the definition of Patriotism and the belief system the 'Average American' has when it comes to Patriotism. That is OK. You can lump Patriots all together in your beliefs.
I will continue to practice Pastafarianism as my religion (jokingly) & also to stand and salute the symbol of our country, its great history, the people who have fought for us & continue to serve, and what that means to me & has meant to my family. (And, to support the rights of Kaepernick to try and cause positive change in our society, where I also agree we need many positive changes.)
It makes me smile to know that some of our neighbors to the north are so concerned about us, while at the same time thinking that the Patriots in the US are such ignorant followers of our leaders, cheering on the cultivation of ignorance....all the while thinking we are better than everyone else because of where we were born.
I am a Patriot. I strongly support the USA. I do not agree with Donald J. Trump...I did not vote for Donald J. Trump. I still strongly support and love the USA, many flaws though we have.
Keep on doing what you believe in Kaepernick, we all need to try to make it a better world...day by day.
do you really think the majority of people, or even a minority, who sing the national anthem at sporting events have any clue what the connection is of patriotism to sports? no, they just do it because it's expected. like saying the lord's prayer at thanksgiving, or taking your hat off during the anthem. americans and canadians alike.
however, if it does come up, I talk as I spoke here. But it doesn't come up in the same context. people here don't speak in terms of being a patriot. that's a largely american term. they just say "canadian". I can't imagine someone going ballistic at a CFL game if someone remained seated. they'd get looks, but it would go largely unnoticed. if players knelt in the CFL, it would not be nearly as polarizing as it is in the US. not even close.
I appreciate where I live. I feel very grateful to live in Canada. That is not patriotism. that is feeling fortunate for my surroundings and my upbringing and the geographical lottery I won.
patriotism is a recruitment tool and a way to keep people in check. nothing more.
-EV 8/14/93
Yes, I do think the majority of people who sing the national anthem at sporting events can tell you why they sing the anthem and why they believe in patriotism. The conversation of if it should be performed at sporting events is a different topic...
We can agree to disagree on the rest. One of the first things I did after buying my house was to dig a hole, get a flagpole & a flag, light that pole up, and proudly run the flag up the flagpole.
The dictionary can join me in disagreeing with your definition of patriotism...but it is certainly up to you to make up definitions to words that fit what you think they should mean.
Atari dashboard by richter. (That means "Have A Great Day!" in my dictionary.
Definition of patriotism
what did I say that is untrue?
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93
These are 2 things you wrote today that are not part of the definition of Patriotism by those who define what words mean. Granted, you are allowed to make up your own meanings to words..
patriotism is a recruitment tool and a way to keep people in check. nothing more.patriotism is just blindly following your government and their cultivation of fear and ignorance thinking you are better for no other reason than being born in a certain geographical location.So if the NFL (and others) are shills for the military does that mean that people should not stand and salute the flag they believe in, if this is what they want to do? Doesn't mean they are mindless zombies.
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93
I think the general public can be very easily fooled into believing a shitload of things; I'm sure I've fallen victim countless times. If it is not immediately obvious that it is possibly a negative, why question it? Patriotism has been ingrained as a POSITIVE trait over the generations.
Patriotism is fine in a mild form, as most americans likely adhere to. It's the nutjobs who think flag and country supercede all else that I find scary, and almost like a mental illness.
-EV 8/14/93
-bigotry and racism (hello, travel ban/fear of immigration-and yes, the latter predates Trump)
-the wars america has waged in the name of "liberating" others to be more american-like? the reasons those wars are actually waged have zero to do with patriotism, but the recruitment of troops is all patriotism and "love for/duty towards country".
-EV 8/14/93
Leaving for meetings, we will have to just agree to disagree and discuss another day.
Atari dashboard by richter!