Something about teacher's pay...

brianlux

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

I don't believe anyone who has not been a teacher or at least has spent a good deal of time working in a classroom (not as a student) can fully understand the stress of the job.  I did it for five years.  It's one of the toughest jobs around, honestly.

I think every job has their own stress. 

True, but I can tell you that having done ... let me count them... 18 different types of work (and many more jobs as some, such as retail and bookstore work, occurred in different places), teaching (three different teaching jobs) was by far one of the most stressful. 

(P.S.  I've had something like 35 different jobs but have never been fired.  I just want to experience as much in life as possible 'cause ya only go around once!)

I gotta admit, working in manufacturing, I cannot imagine a teachers stress level being higher. And once you achieve a certain level, I cannot imagine a teachers workload being greater or even equal. But again, people make choices. Can be a teacher knowing you get more time off but pay is lower generally and ability to rise in pay in stifled.  You also have your vacation days all picked out for you and less flexibility throughout the year.  There are trade-offs. 

Also, teachers in most states are required to take continuing education classes. 

cincybearcat

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

I don't believe anyone who has not been a teacher or at least has spent a good deal of time working in a classroom (not as a student) can fully understand the stress of the job.  I did it for five years.  It's one of the toughest jobs around, honestly.

I think every job has their own stress. 

True, but I can tell you that having done ... let me count them... 18 different types of work (and many more jobs as some, such as retail and bookstore work, occurred in different places), teaching (three different teaching jobs) was by far one of the most stressful. 

(P.S.  I've had something like 35 different jobs but have never been fired.  I just want to experience as much in life as possible 'cause ya only go around once!)

I gotta admit, working in manufacturing, I cannot imagine a teachers stress level being higher. And once you achieve a certain level, I cannot imagine a teachers workload being greater or even equal. But again, people make choices. Can be a teacher knowing you get more time off but pay is lower generally and ability to rise in pay in stifled.  You also have your vacation days all picked out for you and less flexibility throughout the year.  There are trade-offs. 

Also, teachers in most states are required to take continuing education classes. 

And so are lawyers, engineers, etc.  Not to mention the annual/b-annual re-certification requirements for EPA, etc in those fields. 

oftenreading

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

I don't believe anyone who has not been a teacher or at least has spent a good deal of time working in a classroom (not as a student) can fully understand the stress of the job.  I did it for five years.  It's one of the toughest jobs around, honestly.

I think every job has their own stress. 

True, but I can tell you that having done ... let me count them... 18 different types of work (and many more jobs as some, such as retail and bookstore work, occurred in different places), teaching (three different teaching jobs) was by far one of the most stressful. 

(P.S.  I've had something like 35 different jobs but have never been fired.  I just want to experience as much in life as possible 'cause ya only go around once!)

I gotta admit, working in manufacturing, I cannot imagine a teachers stress level being higher. And once you achieve a certain level, I cannot imagine a teachers workload being greater or even equal. But again, people make choices. Can be a teacher knowing you get more time off but pay is lower generally and ability to rise in pay in stifled.  You also have your vacation days all picked out for you and less flexibility throughout the year.  There are trade-offs. 

Also, teachers in most states are required to take continuing education classes. 

And so are lawyers, engineers, etc.  Not to mention the annual/b-annual re-certification requirements for EPA, etc in those fields. 

Also doctors, nurses, dentists, veterinarians, etc, on their own time, not paid time. 

brianlux

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

I don't believe anyone who has not been a teacher or at least has spent a good deal of time working in a classroom (not as a student) can fully understand the stress of the job.  I did it for five years.  It's one of the toughest jobs around, honestly.

I think every job has their own stress. 

True, but I can tell you that having done ... let me count them... 18 different types of work (and many more jobs as some, such as retail and bookstore work, occurred in different places), teaching (three different teaching jobs) was by far one of the most stressful. 

(P.S.  I've had something like 35 different jobs but have never been fired.  I just want to experience as much in life as possible 'cause ya only go around once!)

I gotta admit, working in manufacturing, I cannot imagine a teachers stress level being higher. And once you achieve a certain level, I cannot imagine a teachers workload being greater or even equal. But again, people make choices. Can be a teacher knowing you get more time off but pay is lower generally and ability to rise in pay in stifled.  You also have your vacation days all picked out for you and less flexibility throughout the year.  There are trade-offs. 

Also, teachers in most states are required to take continuing education classes. 

And so are lawyers, engineers, etc.  Not to mention the annual/b-annual re-certification requirements for EPA, etc in those fields. 

Yeah, those underpaid lawyers and engineers.  Sad, ain't it?!

pjhawks

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

I don't believe anyone who has not been a teacher or at least has spent a good deal of time working in a classroom (not as a student) can fully understand the stress of the job.  I did it for five years.  It's one of the toughest jobs around, honestly.

I think every job has their own stress. 

True, but I can tell you that having done ... let me count them... 18 different types of work (and many more jobs as some, such as retail and bookstore work, occurred in different places), teaching (three different teaching jobs) was by far one of the most stressful. 

(P.S.  I've had something like 35 different jobs but have never been fired.  I just want to experience as much in life as possible 'cause ya only go around once!)

I gotta admit, working in manufacturing, I cannot imagine a teachers stress level being higher. And once you achieve a certain level, I cannot imagine a teachers workload being greater or even equal. But again, people make choices. Can be a teacher knowing you get more time off but pay is lower generally and ability to rise in pay in stifled.  You also have your vacation days all picked out for you and less flexibility throughout the year.  There are trade-offs. 

Also, teachers in most states are required to take continuing education classes. 

And so are lawyers, engineers, etc.  Not to mention the annual/b-annual re-certification requirements for EPA, etc in those fields. 

Yeah, those underpaid lawyers and engineers.  Sad, ain't it?!

teachers who complain about their salary are just dumb. why would you go into a field knowing how low the salaries can be...then complain about the salary?

brianlux

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

I don't believe anyone who has not been a teacher or at least has spent a good deal of time working in a classroom (not as a student) can fully understand the stress of the job.  I did it for five years.  It's one of the toughest jobs around, honestly.

I think every job has their own stress. 

True, but I can tell you that having done ... let me count them... 18 different types of work (and many more jobs as some, such as retail and bookstore work, occurred in different places), teaching (three different teaching jobs) was by far one of the most stressful. 

(P.S.  I've had something like 35 different jobs but have never been fired.  I just want to experience as much in life as possible 'cause ya only go around once!)

I gotta admit, working in manufacturing, I cannot imagine a teachers stress level being higher. And once you achieve a certain level, I cannot imagine a teachers workload being greater or even equal. But again, people make choices. Can be a teacher knowing you get more time off but pay is lower generally and ability to rise in pay in stifled.  You also have your vacation days all picked out for you and less flexibility throughout the year.  There are trade-offs. 

Also, teachers in most states are required to take continuing education classes. 

And so are lawyers, engineers, etc.  Not to mention the annual/b-annual re-certification requirements for EPA, etc in those fields. 

Yeah, those underpaid lawyers and engineers.  Sad, ain't it?!

teachers who complain about their salary are just dumb. why would you go into a field knowing how low the salaries can be...then complain about the salary?

So your saying...?

pjhawks

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

I don't believe anyone who has not been a teacher or at least has spent a good deal of time working in a classroom (not as a student) can fully understand the stress of the job.  I did it for five years.  It's one of the toughest jobs around, honestly.

I think every job has their own stress. 

True, but I can tell you that having done ... let me count them... 18 different types of work (and many more jobs as some, such as retail and bookstore work, occurred in different places), teaching (three different teaching jobs) was by far one of the most stressful. 

(P.S.  I've had something like 35 different jobs but have never been fired.  I just want to experience as much in life as possible 'cause ya only go around once!)

I gotta admit, working in manufacturing, I cannot imagine a teachers stress level being higher. And once you achieve a certain level, I cannot imagine a teachers workload being greater or even equal. But again, people make choices. Can be a teacher knowing you get more time off but pay is lower generally and ability to rise in pay in stifled.  You also have your vacation days all picked out for you and less flexibility throughout the year.  There are trade-offs. 

Also, teachers in most states are required to take continuing education classes. 

And so are lawyers, engineers, etc.  Not to mention the annual/b-annual re-certification requirements for EPA, etc in those fields. 

Yeah, those underpaid lawyers and engineers.  Sad, ain't it?!

teachers who complain about their salary are just dumb. why would you go into a field knowing how low the salaries can be...then complain about the salary?

So your saying...?

uhhh no not at all but nice try. i'm saying you know (or should know) about the low salary going in.  it's like going to a rock concert and complaining it's loud. shouldn't you know that before you go in?

brianlux

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

I don't believe anyone who has not been a teacher or at least has spent a good deal of time working in a classroom (not as a student) can fully understand the stress of the job.  I did it for five years.  It's one of the toughest jobs around, honestly.

I think every job has their own stress. 

True, but I can tell you that having done ... let me count them... 18 different types of work (and many more jobs as some, such as retail and bookstore work, occurred in different places), teaching (three different teaching jobs) was by far one of the most stressful. 

(P.S.  I've had something like 35 different jobs but have never been fired.  I just want to experience as much in life as possible 'cause ya only go around once!)

I gotta admit, working in manufacturing, I cannot imagine a teachers stress level being higher. And once you achieve a certain level, I cannot imagine a teachers workload being greater or even equal. But again, people make choices. Can be a teacher knowing you get more time off but pay is lower generally and ability to rise in pay in stifled.  You also have your vacation days all picked out for you and less flexibility throughout the year.  There are trade-offs. 

Also, teachers in most states are required to take continuing education classes. 

And so are lawyers, engineers, etc.  Not to mention the annual/b-annual re-certification requirements for EPA, etc in those fields. 

Yeah, those underpaid lawyers and engineers.  Sad, ain't it?!

teachers who complain about their salary are just dumb. why would you go into a field knowing how low the salaries can be...then complain about the salary?

So your saying...?

uhhh no not at all but nice try. i'm saying you know (or should know) about the low salary going in.  it's like going to a rock concert and complaining it's loud. shouldn't you know that before you go in?

Well, look, that photo was meant to be more humorous than anything.  My concerns about education are much broader than just the money or the hours.  It has more to do with declining quality of education in America. 

I'm not sure why the hatred for teachers keeps popping up here from time to time.  I guess we all need something to argue about or someone to bash.  AMT, what can I say.  I'll continue be supportive of teachers, some of you will continue to bash teachers.  I can't change that.   But I can make decent coffee so...

what dreams

pjhawks said:

what dreams said:

It's conversations like these that have turned me into a teacher who never takes work home and leaves within the hour of the dismissal bell. I work my 200 contracted days for the hours I'm required (7:00-3:00) and that's it. I discovered very quickly that my putting in extra hours "for the children" made absolutely no difference on their bottom line -- grades, test scores, satisfaction with the class. Nothing. All it did was make me miserable, and then angry, about the wage theft. And then I would get involved in dumb conversations with disgruntled strangers who probably hated school when they were in school, probably weren't successful at it either which is why they hated it, so now they are adults who hate teachers just like they hated teachers when they were 12. These disgruntled adults go on and on about how I never work, and the paid holidays (which are NOT PAID), and I finally said, wait a minute, you are absolutely correct . . . I'm a professional under contract. My contract says 200 days, 7:00-3:00. That's all they're getting from me.  I became this way at around year 15. I'm now at year 26. Over a thousand kids have passed through my class since I began taking this stance, and they are fine. They're in college, working, starting families, etc. Nothing I did or didn't do as a teacher in my 200 day/8 hour a day job kept them from living their dream. I'm just not that powerful.
If I do happen to spend any extra time, which is rare to non-existent, it is because I choose to, not because I feel like I'm some kind of superhero for toiling away at my kitchen table grading papers that students will just stuff in the trash anyway once I hand them back. 
If every teacher did what I do, give the people what they're paying for -- in general, 193-200 days for 7.5-8 hours -- it would be fine. Trust me. Nobody would notice the difference. Teachers would get better at focusing their time on what matters. The things that don't get done are the things that don't matter. I have a lesson plan, I do the lesson, the grading gets done when it gets done. I'm not earning anything extra for being a superhero, nor do I have any desire to be a superhero, quite honestly. I have taken all these arguments to heart, and I absolutely agree -- teaching is a job just like any other, we all have to deal with stresses and demands -- and if I signed the same contract in any other field, I wouldn't be expected to work any more than what the contract states. No employer in any other field would write such a contract unless it were the expectation to work only those hours and days. Otherwise they would be in breach of contract. If my school board/state wanted me to work additional days and hours, they would have written a different contract. They didn't. I'm meeting the expectations of the contract.
I encourage all teachers across America to jump on board. WORK TO CONTRACT. It's liberating.
#RED4ED

while I understand your point, and at times have take the same attitude for short periods of time at my job, be thankful you are in a union that basically, unless you sleep with a student, keeps you from ever being fired.  in the business world this attitude in most companies doesn't take you too far. 

Again: bullshit.

I teach in one of the 38 right to work states where there is NO collective bargaining or protection against arbitrary firing. After 26 years, right now as I type, I have a letter in my personnel file threatening termination if I do not "build better relationships with students." Right before Christmas, nine 7th graders complained about how they don't like me. And now I am tasked with being liked -- by a bunch of 12 year olds -- or being fired. It's the damn truth. I can be fired if KIDS report they don't like me.

Please stop drinking the kool aid. You have no idea what you're talking about. Get informed. Actually read the teacher contracts in all 50 states. They are public documents. None of them guarantee a job for life.

cincybearcat

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

I don't believe anyone who has not been a teacher or at least has spent a good deal of time working in a classroom (not as a student) can fully understand the stress of the job.  I did it for five years.  It's one of the toughest jobs around, honestly.

I think every job has their own stress. 

True, but I can tell you that having done ... let me count them... 18 different types of work (and many more jobs as some, such as retail and bookstore work, occurred in different places), teaching (three different teaching jobs) was by far one of the most stressful. 

(P.S.  I've had something like 35 different jobs but have never been fired.  I just want to experience as much in life as possible 'cause ya only go around once!)

I gotta admit, working in manufacturing, I cannot imagine a teachers stress level being higher. And once you achieve a certain level, I cannot imagine a teachers workload being greater or even equal. But again, people make choices. Can be a teacher knowing you get more time off but pay is lower generally and ability to rise in pay in stifled.  You also have your vacation days all picked out for you and less flexibility throughout the year.  There are trade-offs. 

Also, teachers in most states are required to take continuing education classes. 

And so are lawyers, engineers, etc.  Not to mention the annual/b-annual re-certification requirements for EPA, etc in those fields. 

Yeah, those underpaid lawyers and engineers.  Sad, ain't it?!

I’m not sure why you are changing the point.

mickeyrat

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

I don't believe anyone who has not been a teacher or at least has spent a good deal of time working in a classroom (not as a student) can fully understand the stress of the job.  I did it for five years.  It's one of the toughest jobs around, honestly.

I think every job has their own stress. 

True, but I can tell you that having done ... let me count them... 18 different types of work (and many more jobs as some, such as retail and bookstore work, occurred in different places), teaching (three different teaching jobs) was by far one of the most stressful. 

(P.S.  I've had something like 35 different jobs but have never been fired.  I just want to experience as much in life as possible 'cause ya only go around once!)

I gotta admit, working in manufacturing, I cannot imagine a teachers stress level being higher. And once you achieve a certain level, I cannot imagine a teachers workload being greater or even equal. But again, people make choices. Can be a teacher knowing you get more time off but pay is lower generally and ability to rise in pay in stifled.  You also have your vacation days all picked out for you and less flexibility throughout the year.  There are trade-offs. 

Also, teachers in most states are required to take continuing education classes. 

And so are lawyers, engineers, etc.  Not to mention the annual/b-annual re-certification requirements for EPA, etc in those fields. 

Yeah, those underpaid lawyers and engineers.  Sad, ain't it?!

teachers who complain about their salary are just dumb. why would you go into a field knowing how low the salaries can be...then complain about the salary?

do you have kids? my guess is you dont.

pjhawks

what dreams said:

pjhawks said:

what dreams said:

It's conversations like these that have turned me into a teacher who never takes work home and leaves within the hour of the dismissal bell. I work my 200 contracted days for the hours I'm required (7:00-3:00) and that's it. I discovered very quickly that my putting in extra hours "for the children" made absolutely no difference on their bottom line -- grades, test scores, satisfaction with the class. Nothing. All it did was make me miserable, and then angry, about the wage theft. And then I would get involved in dumb conversations with disgruntled strangers who probably hated school when they were in school, probably weren't successful at it either which is why they hated it, so now they are adults who hate teachers just like they hated teachers when they were 12. These disgruntled adults go on and on about how I never work, and the paid holidays (which are NOT PAID), and I finally said, wait a minute, you are absolutely correct . . . I'm a professional under contract. My contract says 200 days, 7:00-3:00. That's all they're getting from me.  I became this way at around year 15. I'm now at year 26. Over a thousand kids have passed through my class since I began taking this stance, and they are fine. They're in college, working, starting families, etc. Nothing I did or didn't do as a teacher in my 200 day/8 hour a day job kept them from living their dream. I'm just not that powerful.
If I do happen to spend any extra time, which is rare to non-existent, it is because I choose to, not because I feel like I'm some kind of superhero for toiling away at my kitchen table grading papers that students will just stuff in the trash anyway once I hand them back. 
If every teacher did what I do, give the people what they're paying for -- in general, 193-200 days for 7.5-8 hours -- it would be fine. Trust me. Nobody would notice the difference. Teachers would get better at focusing their time on what matters. The things that don't get done are the things that don't matter. I have a lesson plan, I do the lesson, the grading gets done when it gets done. I'm not earning anything extra for being a superhero, nor do I have any desire to be a superhero, quite honestly. I have taken all these arguments to heart, and I absolutely agree -- teaching is a job just like any other, we all have to deal with stresses and demands -- and if I signed the same contract in any other field, I wouldn't be expected to work any more than what the contract states. No employer in any other field would write such a contract unless it were the expectation to work only those hours and days. Otherwise they would be in breach of contract. If my school board/state wanted me to work additional days and hours, they would have written a different contract. They didn't. I'm meeting the expectations of the contract.
I encourage all teachers across America to jump on board. WORK TO CONTRACT. It's liberating.
#RED4ED

while I understand your point, and at times have take the same attitude for short periods of time at my job, be thankful you are in a union that basically, unless you sleep with a student, keeps you from ever being fired.  in the business world this attitude in most companies doesn't take you too far. 

Again: bullshit.

I teach in one of the 38 right to work states where there is NO collective bargaining or protection against arbitrary firing. After 26 years, right now as I type, I have a letter in my personnel file threatening termination if I do not "build better relationships with students." Right before Christmas, nine 7th graders complained about how they don't like me. And now I am tasked with being liked -- by a bunch of 12 year olds -- or being fired. It's the damn truth. I can be fired if KIDS report they don't like me.

Please stop drinking the kool aid. You have no idea what you're talking about. Get informed. Actually read the teacher contracts in all 50 states. They are public documents. None of them guarantee a job for life.

oh so your saying your job is pretty much the same as most peoples...but you do the bare minimum to get by.  must be tough to have be liked. i mean it's not like others who work in other jobs have to be, you know, liked by people; clients, co-workers, bosses etc.  good to know.

brianlux

Why do some of you folks have such strong negative feelings for teachers?  Did you have a shitty teacher when you were a kid?  We're you abused by a teacher?  I don't understand the hate.

pjhawks

brianlux said:

Why do some of you folks have such strong negative feelings for teachers?  Did you have a shitty teacher when you were a kid?  We're you abused by a teacher?  I don't understand the hate.

hate really? discussing their schedule is hate? why do people react so irrationally when bringing up a teacher schedule and days off? what other professions do people get so damn defensive about? and this thread is proof of the defensiveness.

brianlux

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

Why do some of you folks have such strong negative feelings for teachers?  Did you have a shitty teacher when you were a kid?  We're you abused by a teacher?  I don't understand the hate.

hate really? discussing their schedule is hate? why do people react so irrationally when bringing up a teacher schedule and days off? what other professions do people get so damn defensive about? and this thread is proof of the defensiveness.

Answer a question with a question.  Make a derogatory comment about how I am being "irrational".  Come on man, do you really expect me to reply to that kind of thing?  No wonder so many members avoid AMT.

I'm done here.

pjhawks

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

Why do some of you folks have such strong negative feelings for teachers?  Did you have a shitty teacher when you were a kid?  We're you abused by a teacher?  I don't understand the hate.

hate really? discussing their schedule is hate? why do people react so irrationally when bringing up a teacher schedule and days off? what other professions do people get so damn defensive about? and this thread is proof of the defensiveness.

Answer a question with a question.  Make a derogatory comment about how I am being "irrational".  Come on man, do you really expect me to reply to that kind of thing?  No wonder so many members avoid AMT.

I'm done here.

thanks for proving my point.   

brianlux

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

Why do some of you folks have such strong negative feelings for teachers?  Did you have a shitty teacher when you were a kid?  We're you abused by a teacher?  I don't understand the hate.

hate really? discussing their schedule is hate? why do people react so irrationally when bringing up a teacher schedule and days off? what other professions do people get so damn defensive about? and this thread is proof of the defensiveness.

Answer a question with a question.  Make a derogatory comment about how I am being "irrational".  Come on man, do you really expect me to reply to that kind of thing?  No wonder so many members avoid AMT.

I'm done here.

thanks for proving my point.   

You're welcome.

cincybearcat

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

Why do some of you folks have such strong negative feelings for teachers?  Did you have a shitty teacher when you were a kid?  We're you abused by a teacher?  I don't understand the hate.

hate really? discussing their schedule is hate? why do people react so irrationally when bringing up a teacher schedule and days off? what other professions do people get so damn defensive about? and this thread is proof of the defensiveness.

Answer a question with a question.  Make a derogatory comment about how I am being "irrational".  Come on man, do you really expect me to reply to that kind of thing?  No wonder so many members avoid AMT.

I'm done here.

Brian - I too think it's weird how you cannot talk about teachers at all without 100% full support or you hate them.  Same thing with school levies. If you have questions people start saying you don't care about the kids.  It's bullshit.

It similar to discussing the military, people try to equate it with not supporting the soldiers.  Very strange.

hedonist

When did it (or most things, for that matter) become so black and white?

I don't think I've read anything - within the last few pages, anyway - disparaging teachers themselves.  Perhaps I missed something.

brianlux

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

Why do some of you folks have such strong negative feelings for teachers?  Did you have a shitty teacher when you were a kid?  We're you abused by a teacher?  I don't understand the hate.

hate really? discussing their schedule is hate? why do people react so irrationally when bringing up a teacher schedule and days off? what other professions do people get so damn defensive about? and this thread is proof of the defensiveness.

Answer a question with a question.  Make a derogatory comment about how I am being "irrational".  Come on man, do you really expect me to reply to that kind of thing?  No wonder so many members avoid AMT.

I'm done here.

Brian - I too think it's weird how you cannot talk about teachers at all without 100% full support or you hate them.  Same thing with school levies. If you have questions people start saying you don't care about the kids.  It's bullshit.

It similar to discussing the military, people try to equate it with not supporting the soldiers.  Very strange.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJY8jJkDoMY