Something about teacher's pay...

mace1229

hedonist said:

It may seem inconceivable, but some people don’t hand-wring over teachers’ salaries. 

I find more ridiculous the salaries that many sports stars, musicians, “celebrities “ pull. Teaching isn’t high on my list (not saying the job itself is unimportant). As with anything, do the work and be paid fairly.

...and I do realize that’s a simplistic if not idealistic view. 

I agree. I think athletes are grossly over paid. even just 30 or 40 years ago they still got a great salary, but it was in the 10s of millions like today.
I doubt any pro athlete would quit and work some desk job because they capped his salary at 1 million and that was the norm. That still puts you in probably the top 1%.
I also hate that college coaches can get $10 million. 

cincybearcat

PJPOWER said:

cincybearcat said:

Bentleyspop said:

mcgruff10 said:

I just never understood why people care so much about my salary and schedule.  I definitely think it is a little jealously and the old "I pay taxes so I pay your salary."

It is definitely jealousy with a side of ignorance

I think it's jealousy with a side of always hearing about how teachers are underpaid and a healthy portion of if you don't support teachers/school levies, etc you hate the kids (ala the military).

Definitely jealous of the time off, but not the lack of flexibility throughout the year for vacation days.  

Most I know will get 2nd jobs during the summer.

That is true. Many I knew all started a painting company they worked in during the summer. 

pjhawks

PJPOWER said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but a teacher’s yearly salary is only based off the number of actual work days on their contracts (they don’t technically get payed for Summers).  So a teacher wage of $40000/year does not actually represent a full year that includes Summer.  Summer days are essentially non-employment days, not paid holidays.

My wife works payroll for several schools in TX and says this always confuses teachers because they spread the actual paychecks out throughout the whole year instead of just giving bigger checks during the school year and no paycheck during the Summer (which would better represent what they get paid for).
Now, you could argue that teachers should or should not get paid more, but it is important to know how the pay scale works before comparing hourly/daily/yearly wage calculations.

Uh oh you brought up their schedule be prepared to be labeled a hater. 

PJPOWER

cincybearcat said:

PJPOWER said:

cincybearcat said:

Bentleyspop said:

mcgruff10 said:

I just never understood why people care so much about my salary and schedule.  I definitely think it is a little jealously and the old "I pay taxes so I pay your salary."

It is definitely jealousy with a side of ignorance

I think it's jealousy with a side of always hearing about how teachers are underpaid and a healthy portion of if you don't support teachers/school levies, etc you hate the kids (ala the military).

Definitely jealous of the time off, but not the lack of flexibility throughout the year for vacation days.  

Most I know will get 2nd jobs during the summer.

That is true. Many I knew all started a painting company they worked in during the summer. 

I know many that will work on farms or ranches during the summers.  A painting company or moving company run by teachers would also be great ways to earn some extra during the months that they are not under contract with the school.  I also know plenty that are only teachers so that they have summers off...I guess it just depends on priorities.
I get the pleasure of working for the schools and still have a year round contract, but I get paid for a year long contract as well.  I do have the option to work less days, but I don’t do that because it would drop by yearly income.
I know some teachers that teach summer school to increase their total yearly pay...

what dreams

mickeyrat said:

pjhawks said:

what dreams said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

Why do some of you folks have such strong negative feelings for teachers?  Did you have a shitty teacher when you were a kid?  We're you abused by a teacher?  I don't understand the hate.

hate really? discussing their schedule is hate? why do people react so irrationally when bringing up a teacher schedule and days off? what other professions do people get so damn defensive about? and this thread is proof of the defensiveness.

NOBODY obsesses about anybody else's work schedule the way they obsess about teachers. When was the last time you read a post on the AMT:  "Mechanics are Never There on Sundays."  "My Doctors Take Every Friday Off."  "Cleaning Ladies are Never On Time." I simply just don't understand the obsession. This thread was dead for over a YEAR, and all of a sudden, it's President's Day and you have some thorn up your ass again about teachers. And another by the way -- MY SCHOOL DIVISION WAS OPEN ON PRESIDENT'S DAY.

know what else is 100% true? no one , other than seasonal workers, have the schedule that teachers do.  #factsmatter

because facts do matter.......was it teachers that dictated this schedule? hmm?

BINGO.

brianlux

A slow day in paradise. 

HughFreakingDillon

what dreams said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

Why do some of you folks have such strong negative feelings for teachers?  Did you have a shitty teacher when you were a kid?  We're you abused by a teacher?  I don't understand the hate.

hate really? discussing their schedule is hate? why do people react so irrationally when bringing up a teacher schedule and days off? what other professions do people get so damn defensive about? and this thread is proof of the defensiveness.

NOBODY obsesses about anybody else's work schedule the way they obsess about teachers. When was the last time you read a post on the AMT:  "Mechanics are Never There on Sundays."  "My Doctors Take Every Friday Off."  "Cleaning Ladies are Never On Time." I simply just don't understand the obsession. This thread was dead for over a YEAR, and all of a sudden, it's President's Day and you have some thorn up your ass again about teachers. And another by the way -- MY SCHOOL DIVISION WAS OPEN ON PRESIDENT'S DAY.

honestly I think you have it backwards. in my experience, not once has an argument about how good teachers had it started with a non-teacher. it's always, 100%, a teacher complaining about difficult how they have it. and maybe they do. it's obviously not a universal truth; some have it horribly, some have it fabulous. most have it somewhere in between, is my guess. however, the topic of time off and pay:

Winnipeg teachers:
8 weeks off at summer
2 weeks off at christmas
1 week off at spring break (in BC they get two weeks off, but not sure about the other time periods)

my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. 

and i hear about their hardship about not being able to choose their holidays. you have more than double what I have. and you get it from year one. I have built up to 5 weeks holidays over 20 years of service. my first 5 years I had 2 paid weeks.

or how they can only go on vacation during peak times making it super expensive. for fucks sakes, "I get double or triple or quadruple your vacation time, I know, but YOU GET TO CHOOSE WHEN YOU TAKE IT". that's the argument? I'd GLADLY SWITCH WITH ANYONE THAT WANTS TO. 

now, that being said, I know that those 8 weeks in summer isn't always the full 8 weeks. some go in the last week of summer break to prepare, but honestly, once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right. it still amounts to at least 80% of the summer is your own time. 

and don't even ask me about the salaries of these folks. They all make a LOT more than the average canadian. I think they start off at the average canadian income. and it only increases substantially from there. 

is it a stressful profession? no doubt about it. at least two of the several teachers I know have gone on stress leave at some point. I don't know how much of that is job related, mental health related, or a combination. I think I've mentioned this before, but I do know that it's GOT to suck seeing a group of asshole kids coming up, knowing you get a full 9 months with them with no escape. That's got to be shitty. But there are stressful pitfalls to any job. I wonder what my life would be like if my coworkers and/or my boss would move along after a year. could make things interesting. or incredibly unstable. who knows. 

summation: canadian teachers, to my knowledge, get paid well. the stress level can be high (but isn't, necessarily). they get a lot of time off that is in fact TIME OFF. 

mcgruff10

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh, 
1.  How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2.  What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time? 
3.  Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it.  I give zero homework except to study for a test.  

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement.  Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up.  Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.  

ecdanc

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh, 
1.  How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2.  What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time? 
3.  Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it.  I give zero homework except to study for a test.  

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement.  Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up.  Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.  

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

ecdanc

HughFreakingDillon said:

what dreams said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

Why do some of you folks have such strong negative feelings for teachers?  Did you have a shitty teacher when you were a kid?  We're you abused by a teacher?  I don't understand the hate.

hate really? discussing their schedule is hate? why do people react so irrationally when bringing up a teacher schedule and days off? what other professions do people get so damn defensive about? and this thread is proof of the defensiveness.

NOBODY obsesses about anybody else's work schedule the way they obsess about teachers. When was the last time you read a post on the AMT:  "Mechanics are Never There on Sundays."  "My Doctors Take Every Friday Off."  "Cleaning Ladies are Never On Time." I simply just don't understand the obsession. This thread was dead for over a YEAR, and all of a sudden, it's President's Day and you have some thorn up your ass again about teachers. And another by the way -- MY SCHOOL DIVISION WAS OPEN ON PRESIDENT'S DAY.

honestly I think you have it backwards. in my experience, not once has an argument about how good teachers had it started with a non-teacher. it's always, 100%, a teacher complaining about difficult how they have it. and maybe they do. it's obviously not a universal truth; some have it horribly, some have it fabulous. most have it somewhere in between, is my guess. however, the topic of time off and pay:

Winnipeg teachers:
8 weeks off at summer
2 weeks off at christmas
1 week off at spring break (in BC they get two weeks off, but not sure about the other time periods)

my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. 

and i hear about their hardship about not being able to choose their holidays. you have more than double what I have. and you get it from year one. I have built up to 5 weeks holidays over 20 years of service. my first 5 years I had 2 paid weeks.

or how they can only go on vacation during peak times making it super expensive. for fucks sakes, "I get double or triple or quadruple your vacation time, I know, but YOU GET TO CHOOSE WHEN YOU TAKE IT". that's the argument? I'd GLADLY SWITCH WITH ANYONE THAT WANTS TO. 

now, that being said, I know that those 8 weeks in summer isn't always the full 8 weeks. some go in the last week of summer break to prepare, but honestly, once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right. it still amounts to at least 80% of the summer is your own time. 

and don't even ask me about the salaries of these folks. They all make a LOT more than the average canadian. I think they start off at the average canadian income. and it only increases substantially from there. 

is it a stressful profession? no doubt about it. at least two of the several teachers I know have gone on stress leave at some point. I don't know how much of that is job related, mental health related, or a combination. I think I've mentioned this before, but I do know that it's GOT to suck seeing a group of asshole kids coming up, knowing you get a full 9 months with them with no escape. That's got to be shitty. But there are stressful pitfalls to any job. I wonder what my life would be like if my coworkers and/or my boss would move along after a year. could make things interesting. or incredibly unstable. who knows. 

summation: canadian teachers, to my knowledge, get paid well. the stress level can be high (but isn't, necessarily). they get a lot of time off that is in fact TIME OFF. 

I sometimes go to the doctor, so let me tell you about doctors!

Halifax2TheMax

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh, 
1.  How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2.  What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time? 
3.  Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it.  I give zero homework except to study for a test.  

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement.  Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up.  Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.  

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

You like ice in your red wine too?

mcgruff10

Halifax2TheMax said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh, 
1.  How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2.  What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time? 
3.  Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it.  I give zero homework except to study for a test.  

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement.  Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up.  Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.  

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

You like ice in your red wine too?

You love it and you know it.  

mcgruff10

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh, 
1.  How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2.  What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time? 
3.  Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it.  I give zero homework except to study for a test.  

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement.  Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up.  Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.  

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

Daaaaaaamn. I
might have to rethink what I wrote.  

ecdanc

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh, 
1.  How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2.  What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time? 
3.  Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it.  I give zero homework except to study for a test.  

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement.  Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up.  Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.  

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

Daaaaaaamn. I
might have to rethink what I wrote.  

“On further reflection, I’m a lazy mooch who only works like 20 hours a week.”

mcgruff10

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh, 
1.  How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2.  What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time? 
3.  Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it.  I give zero homework except to study for a test.  

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement.  Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up.  Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.  

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

Daaaaaaamn. I
might have to rethink what I wrote.  

“On further reflection, I’m a lazy mooch who only works like 20 hours a week.”

Or you an adjunct or full time professor?  I guess my question to you, how many classes do you have to teach a week?  Do you teach in front of a class or all online?

ecdanc

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh, 
1.  How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2.  What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time? 
3.  Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it.  I give zero homework except to study for a test.  

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement.  Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up.  Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.  

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

Daaaaaaamn. I
might have to rethink what I wrote.  

“On further reflection, I’m a lazy mooch who only works like 20 hours a week.”

Or you an adjunct or full time professor?  I guess my question to you, how many classes do you have to teach a week?  Do you teach in front of a class or all online?

Full time. A 4/4 teaching load (4 courses per semester). Both online and traditional classes. I spend a fair amount of time in classrooms, but that time doesn’t compare to the time K12 teachers do. 

mcgruff10

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh, 
1.  How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2.  What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time? 
3.  Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it.  I give zero homework except to study for a test.  

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement.  Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up.  Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.  

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

Daaaaaaamn. I
might have to rethink what I wrote.  

“On further reflection, I’m a lazy mooch who only works like 20 hours a week.”

Or you an adjunct or full time professor?  I guess my question to you, how many classes do you have to teach a week?  Do you teach in front of a class or all online?

Full time. A 4/4 teaching load (4 courses per semester). Both online and traditional classes. I spend a fair amount of time in classrooms, but that time doesn’t compare to the time K12 teachers do. 

That s really cool.  I would like to teach college one day.  We shall see. 

Spiritual_Chaos

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

ecdanc said:

mcgruff10 said:

"my kids, grades 5 and 8, get zero homework. their teachers are leaving at 3:15 when the bell rings and they ain't doing a fucking thing on their own time. "
Hugh, 
1.  How do you know those teachers aren't doing anything on their own time?
2.  What is wrong with leaving at 3:15 when they can contractually leave at that time? 
3.  Not too many people give homework anymore, in fact we can't even grade it because you don't know who is actually doing it.  I give zero homework except to study for a test.  

"once you've done it a year or two, if you don't have it down to a day or two science, you're not doing it right."
I like you Hugh but this is just an ignorant statement.  Good teachers are constantly planning and changing things up.  Teaching isn't a science, it is an art.  

McG and I agree on something!!!!!!

Daaaaaaamn. I
might have to rethink what I wrote.  

“On further reflection, I’m a lazy mooch who only works like 20 hours a week.”

Or you an adjunct or full time professor?  I guess my question to you, how many classes do you have to teach a week?  Do you teach in front of a class or all online?

Full time. A 4/4 teaching load (4 courses per semester). Both online and traditional classes. I spend a fair amount of time in classrooms, but that time doesn’t compare to the time K12 teachers do. 

That s really cool.  I would like to teach college one day.  We shall see. 

Hopefully, when you do - tuition will be free for all the the padawans in your country.

angry_skull

Would any people here who use the "teachers work 9 months and get paid 12" argument  work 3 more months for free?

The "my taxes pay for your job" argument is funny too. If teachers get paid from taxes...and pay taxes...then they pay themselves too."

Since some people think teachers are babysitters, pay them like babysitters. What do you currently pay a babysitter per hour? $7 (hopefully more)? Per kid...about 30 kids...$210 an hour. Sounds good.

If teachers have it so good, stop hating, and be one. Like Ed says. "If you hate something. Don't. You do it too."

pjhawks

angry_skull said:

Would any people here who use the "teachers work 9 months and get paid 12" argument  work 3 more months for free?

The "my taxes pay for your job" argument is funny too. If teachers get paid from taxes...and pay taxes...then they pay themselves too."

Since some people think teachers are babysitters, pay them like babysitters. What do you currently pay a babysitter per hour? $7 (hopefully more)? Per kid...about 30 kids...$210 an hour. Sounds good.

If teachers have it so good, stop hating, and be one. Like Ed says. "If you hate something. Don't. You do it too."

actually they get paid for 9 months work which is what they work. that was the point of the OP of this thread. teachers get paid 70% of what other professionals with similar education get paid...and, wait for it, they work roughly 70% of the days of other professionals by schedule.  some people make this WAY more complicated than it really is...but i'm just a hater apparently.