A lot of professions offer "tenure" in one form or another. It's just not called tenure.
As I mentioned already, that time off for teachers is needed. Otherwise the system would be stuffed with way overstressed teachers who would be rendered ineffective. That kind of work can't be maintained at a reasonable level constantly for the entire year. They'd start having mental breakdowns, stress leave would skyrocket. You try spending 5 days a week stuck in a room with 30+ of other people's kids and see how you feel.
So teaching is the only overly stressed job is that what you're saying? Because anyone working long hours 50+ or more is prone to burn out. I've been there and I worked in marketing.
Please tell me which professions offer tenure other than teaching.
Why would you think that's what I'm saying?? I never hinted that that is what I was saying, what a strange leap for you to take. But teaching is the only profession where someone spend the whole day with so many kids. Working 50 hours at a desk isn't not in any way comparable to spending days with a room full of children and trying to actually teach them things and trying to make them decent people (often against all odds given their home lives). I don't know why you keep comparing office jobs with teaching. It makes no sense.... Add to that the unbelievable burden that parents have been allowed to become on teachers.... I'd take 50+ hours a week in marketing any day. I barely know how teachers do it.
Uh, ever heard of seniority??? It amounts to the same thing in many industries.
seniority vs. tenure is not close the same thing. once you have tenure as a teacher it is almost impossible to get fired. i know many people in 'senior' positions in business who lost their jobs. not equivalent...try again.
Having a senior position and having seniority is not the same thing. It's almost impossible to get fired in any union without very good cause and only through progressive discipline, just like with teachers. A lot of unions around.
not a lot of professions with college degrees are unionized (again back to the original study presented in the OP). almost none in business positions. try again.
Do you know how idiotic that "try again" thing is? Anyway, TONS of professions that require degrees are unionized. Ever heard of universities? This university educated person who works at one has. I'm union and so is every single administrator and professor in every university in Canada. And so are teachers. All university educated. And so are engineers, city administrators, and so on and so and so on. I am aware that private businesses are not union.
as i stated above i have no idea how it works in Canada. Here in the U.S. teachers and nurses are the only people i know who have college degrees who work in their field of study and are in unions. i'm sure i'm missing others but no one i know of.
and the original study posted in the original post refers to teachers vs. other professionals in America. thanks for staying on topic though.
me saying try again is just to encourage you and others to keep trying to discredit the facts i've presented in regards to the original study presented in the op. no one has been able to do it yet.
so just for you...try again
Since the aviation industry is big in my area I'll name one - SPEEA (Society of Professional Engineering Employees in Aerospace). They are a local union affiliated with the international aerospace union called IFPTE (International Federation of Professional and Technical Engineers). College educated and degreed aerospace engineers.
do they get up to 70 extra days off per year?
IATSE -- International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees. I guarantee you that the guys and gals loading in Wrigley for the weekend belong to this union. I don't know if they are all college educated but they probably don't work as much as they'd like.
Same as Hedo. I get all my work done well. Sometimes I'm busy, sometimes I have downtime. Some days or weeks are much busier than others. Sometimes I can switch back and forth. Doing work, jump on the boards for a few minutes, go on to the next thing at work. One of the perks of working in an office!
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I wonder how many non-teacher professionals get paid while they are posting to Facebook or their favorite rock band fan site and how many teachers do the same during school hours. That would be interesting to know.
I made the same comment a couple pages ago. nothing but crickets.
There is an old saying, "I get paid a nickel you get paid a dime. That is why I shit on companies time"
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
Hedo, PJ_Soul, I'm not trying to pin anyone down here or butt into anyone's work business. I'm only responsible for myself that way. What I am suggesting is that there is a lot on unproductive time in most work places. We've all seen it and most likely we've all done it. I've had over thirty different jobs in a wide variety of work settings (including an animal hospital, factory work, retail, construction, professional offices, landscaping, farming, self employment, restaurants, job training centers, counseling centers and schools) and seen a lot of unproductive time in those work places. I myself have spent unproductive time in some of those settings.
No so in teaching. I'm sure it happens, but my experience with teaching is that if you are not on task as a teacher, chaos will ensue. In fact, I think this is (thus far) an unwritten law of physics: "Unproductive time in a classroom setting creates a void that leads to Chaos." I'm sure there must be some spoiled, over-paid laissez–faire teachers out there. I'd be willing to bet that Free, for example, would not tell us about such examples if they were not true or at least Free's honest perception of such. But, truly, I've never seen it!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.
And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for days actually worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194. Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.
When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.
You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.
thanks for proving my point. so you work 180-194 days per year. most office professionals are closer to 250 days per year (5 days per week for 52 weeks minus holidays). so while salaries for teachers are only 77% of other professionals the other professionals work roughly 16%-20% more days per year...as i have been saying since the 1st post.
I'm guessing you aren't a teacher. It would be great to work 250 days a year as a teacher but do you think a child can sustain that level of academic rigor 12 months out of a year? Kids need a break. It sounds like you are a little jealous of the time off, benefits and salary. My advice to you is to go back to school, get a degree in whatever you want to teach and try it out for 3 or 4 years.
Hedo, PJ_Soul, I'm not trying to pin anyone down here or butt into anyone's work business. I'm only responsible for myself that way. What I am suggesting is that there is a lot on unproductive time in most work places. We've all seen it and most likely we've all done it. I've had over thirty different jobs in a wide variety of work settings (including an animal hospital, factory work, retail, construction, professional offices, landscaping, farming, self employment, restaurants, job training centers, counseling centers and schools) and seen a lot of unproductive time in those work places. I myself have spent unproductive time in some of those settings.
No so in teaching. I'm sure it happens, but my experience with teaching is that if you are not on task as a teacher, chaos will ensue. In fact, I think this is (thus far) an unwritten law of physics: "Unproductive time in a classroom setting creates a void that leads to Chaos." I'm sure there must be some spoiled, over-paid laissez–faire teachers out there. I'd be willing to bet that Free, for example, would not tell us about such examples if they were not true or at least Free's honest perception of such. But, truly, I've never seen it!
this was my point as well. I stated specifically that I am AT WORK for 35 hours per week. But how many of those am I actually working? I would wager that most teachers are working for every solitary second they are at work, and then some. my comment was "how many hours are you spending at the coffee machine talking about your weekend or sitting at your desk arguing on pearljam.com?". it was not answered, as expected.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
Well, I think an office setting is different (and maybe more independent) than that of a teacher, where in the former you can do hopefully do your own thing and still get 'er done, whereas with the latter, your day is spent directly and seemingly ongoing with your students.
That said, no matter the profession, one should always be on task. Chaos can ensue regardless of a particular line of work.
As said before, I get my shit done, dammit And I work 40 hours a week.
Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.
And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for days actually worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194. Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.
When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.
You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.
thanks for proving my point. so you work 180-194 days per year. most office professionals are closer to 250 days per year (5 days per week for 52 weeks minus holidays). so while salaries for teachers are only 77% of other professionals the other professionals work roughly 16%-20% more days per year...as i have been saying since the 1st post.
I'm guessing you aren't a teacher. It would be great to work 250 days a year as a teacher but do you think a child can sustain that level of academic rigor 12 months out of a year? Kids need a break. It sounds like you are a little jealous of the time off, benefits and salary. My advice to you is to go back to school, get a degree in whatever you want to teach and try it out for 3 or 4 years.
Geezuz, Scruffy.
Where the hell ya been? These guys are busting our chops. We've needed you. It's hostile in here.
"My brain's a good brain!"
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.
And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for days actually worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194. Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.
When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.
You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.
thanks for proving my point. so you work 180-194 days per year. most office professionals are closer to 250 days per year (5 days per week for 52 weeks minus holidays). so while salaries for teachers are only 77% of other professionals the other professionals work roughly 16%-20% more days per year...as i have been saying since the 1st post.
I'm guessing you aren't a teacher. It would be great to work 250 days a year as a teacher but do you think a child can sustain that level of academic rigor 12 months out of a year? Kids need a break. It sounds like you are a little jealous of the time off, benefits and salary. My advice to you is to go back to school, get a degree in whatever you want to teach and try it out for 3 or 4 years.
Geezuz, Scruffy.
Where the hell ya been? These guys are busting our chops. We've needed you. It's hostile in here.
Teachers Unite!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.
And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for days actually worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194. Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.
When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.
You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.
thanks for proving my point. so you work 180-194 days per year. most office professionals are closer to 250 days per year (5 days per week for 52 weeks minus holidays). so while salaries for teachers are only 77% of other professionals the other professionals work roughly 16%-20% more days per year...as i have been saying since the 1st post.
I'm guessing you aren't a teacher. It would be great to work 250 days a year as a teacher but do you think a child can sustain that level of academic rigor 12 months out of a year? Kids need a break. It sounds like you are a little jealous of the time off, benefits and salary. My advice to you is to go back to school, get a degree in whatever you want to teach and try it out for 3 or 4 years.
Geezuz, Scruffy.
Where the hell ya been? These guys are busting our chops. We've needed you. It's hostile in here.
I ve been working long hours at my summer job! Who knew after 15 years of teaching I would still need to have a summer job.
Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.
And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for days actually worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194. Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.
When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.
You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.
thanks for proving my point. so you work 180-194 days per year. most office professionals are closer to 250 days per year (5 days per week for 52 weeks minus holidays). so while salaries for teachers are only 77% of other professionals the other professionals work roughly 16%-20% more days per year...as i have been saying since the 1st post.
I'm guessing you aren't a teacher. It would be great to work 250 days a year as a teacher but do you think a child can sustain that level of academic rigor 12 months out of a year? Kids need a break. It sounds like you are a little jealous of the time off, benefits and salary. My advice to you is to go back to school, get a degree in whatever you want to teach and try it out for 3 or 4 years.
Geezuz, Scruffy.
Where the hell ya been? These guys are busting our chops. We've needed you. It's hostile in here.
I ve been working long hours at my summer job! Who knew after 15 years of teaching I would still need to have a summer job.
If you'd stop 'shootin shit'... you wouldn't need so much money.
Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.
And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for days actually worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194. Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.
When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.
You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.
thanks for proving my point. so you work 180-194 days per year. most office professionals are closer to 250 days per year (5 days per week for 52 weeks minus holidays). so while salaries for teachers are only 77% of other professionals the other professionals work roughly 16%-20% more days per year...as i have been saying since the 1st post.
I'm guessing you aren't a teacher. It would be great to work 250 days a year as a teacher but do you think a child can sustain that level of academic rigor 12 months out of a year? Kids need a break. It sounds like you are a little jealous of the time off, benefits and salary. My advice to you is to go back to school, get a degree in whatever you want to teach and try it out for 3 or 4 years.
Geezuz, Scruffy.
Where the hell ya been? These guys are busting our chops. We've needed you. It's hostile in here.
Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.
And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for days actually worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194. Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.
When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.
You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.
thanks for proving my point. so you work 180-194 days per year. most office professionals are closer to 250 days per year (5 days per week for 52 weeks minus holidays). so while salaries for teachers are only 77% of other professionals the other professionals work roughly 16%-20% more days per year...as i have been saying since the 1st post.
I'm guessing you aren't a teacher. It would be great to work 250 days a year as a teacher but do you think a child can sustain that level of academic rigor 12 months out of a year? Kids need a break. It sounds like you are a little jealous of the time off, benefits and salary. My advice to you is to go back to school, get a degree in whatever you want to teach and try it out for 3 or 4 years.
Geezuz, Scruffy.
Where the hell ya been? These guys are busting our chops. We've needed you. It's hostile in here.
I ve been working long hours at my summer job! Who knew after 15 years of teaching I would still need to have a summer job.
If you'd stop 'shootin shit'... you wouldn't need so much money.
Hey I m still waiting to shoot the shit with you at the range!
Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.
And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for days actually worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194. Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.
When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.
You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.
thanks for proving my point. so you work 180-194 days per year. most office professionals are closer to 250 days per year (5 days per week for 52 weeks minus holidays). so while salaries for teachers are only 77% of other professionals the other professionals work roughly 16%-20% more days per year...as i have been saying since the 1st post.
I'm guessing you aren't a teacher. It would be great to work 250 days a year as a teacher but do you think a child can sustain that level of academic rigor 12 months out of a year? Kids need a break. It sounds like you are a little jealous of the time off, benefits and salary. My advice to you is to go back to school, get a degree in whatever you want to teach and try it out for 3 or 4 years.
Geezuz, Scruffy.
Where the hell ya been? These guys are busting our chops. We've needed you. It's hostile in here.
I ve been working long hours at my summer job! Who knew after 15 years of teaching I would still need to have a summer job.
If you'd stop 'shootin shit'... you wouldn't need so much money.
Hey I m still waiting to shoot the shit with you at the range!
First we practice.
You come out west to Canada and I'll show you how to snap a rubber band of your thumb and just drill someone.
Thennnnnn... I go east coast and bust a few caps in some teacher hater paper targets. We'll take pictures... post them on here... then watch people sing our praises. Of course, then they'll see our selfies where you happen to tuck your PJ T-shirt into your fruit of the looms... and the hating will start all over again.
Yup. I can picture the whole thing. It'll likely be pretty damn fun.
Hedo, PJ_Soul, I'm not trying to pin anyone down here or butt into anyone's work business. I'm only responsible for myself that way. What I am suggesting is that there is a lot on unproductive time in most work places. We've all seen it and most likely we've all done it. I've had over thirty different jobs in a wide variety of work settings (including an animal hospital, factory work, retail, construction, professional offices, landscaping, farming, self employment, restaurants, job training centers, counseling centers and schools) and seen a lot of unproductive time in those work places. I myself have spent unproductive time in some of those settings.
No so in teaching. I'm sure it happens, but my experience with teaching is that if you are not on task as a teacher, chaos will ensue. In fact, I think this is (thus far) an unwritten law of physics: "Unproductive time in a classroom setting creates a void that leads to Chaos." I'm sure there must be some spoiled, over-paid laissez–faire teachers out there. I'd be willing to bet that Free, for example, would not tell us about such examples if they were not true or at least Free's honest perception of such. But, truly, I've never seen it!
this was my point as well. I stated specifically that I am AT WORK for 35 hours per week. But how many of those am I actually working? I would wager that most teachers are working for every solitary second they are at work, and then some. my comment was "how many hours are you spending at the coffee machine talking about your weekend or sitting at your desk arguing on pearljam.com?". it was not answered, as expected.
Absolutely. That's one if the reason they deserve better pay. Me, I'm definitely necessary at my job (amd i'm happy to say that in some ways i'm nearing indespensible), but not for every minute of the day like teachers are. Far from it. Thank goodness, lol.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.
And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for days actually worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194. Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.
When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.
You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.
thanks for proving my point. so you work 180-194 days per year. most office professionals are closer to 250 days per year (5 days per week for 52 weeks minus holidays). so while salaries for teachers are only 77% of other professionals the other professionals work roughly 16%-20% more days per year...as i have been saying since the 1st post.
I'm guessing you aren't a teacher. It would be great to work 250 days a year as a teacher but do you think a child can sustain that level of academic rigor 12 months out of a year? Kids need a break. It sounds like you are a little jealous of the time off, benefits and salary. My advice to you is to go back to school, get a degree in whatever you want to teach and try it out for 3 or 4 years.
Geezuz, Scruffy.
Where the hell ya been? These guys are busting our chops. We've needed you. It's hostile in here.
I ve been working long hours at my summer job! Who knew after 15 years of teaching I would still need to have a summer job.
Maybe if you worked 77% of what the real professionals work you wouldn't have to work a summer job. Could be on the beach working on your melanoma
Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.
And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for days actually worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194. Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.
When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.
You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.
thanks for proving my point. so you work 180-194 days per year. most office professionals are closer to 250 days per year (5 days per week for 52 weeks minus holidays). so while salaries for teachers are only 77% of other professionals the other professionals work roughly 16%-20% more days per year...as i have been saying since the 1st post.
I'm guessing you aren't a teacher. It would be great to work 250 days a year as a teacher but do you think a child can sustain that level of academic rigor 12 months out of a year? Kids need a break. It sounds like you are a little jealous of the time off, benefits and salary. My advice to you is to go back to school, get a degree in whatever you want to teach and try it out for 3 or 4 years.
Geezuz, Scruffy.
Where the hell ya been? These guys are busting our chops. We've needed you. It's hostile in here.
I ve been working long hours at my summer job! Who knew after 15 years of teaching I would still need to have a summer job.
Maybe if you worked 77% of what the real professionals work you wouldn't have to work a summer job. Could be on the beach working on your melanoma
Bentley's a glass half full kind of guy. Working your ass off, Scruffy, will not get you melanoma... unless, of course, you're cleaning some 'real' professional's pool (who's out working 100% somewhere) or something.
"My brain's a good brain!"
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
Wanna see what working hard looks like? Here ya go:
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.
And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for days actually worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194. Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.
When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.
You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.
thanks for proving my point. so you work 180-194 days per year. most office professionals are closer to 250 days per year (5 days per week for 52 weeks minus holidays). so while salaries for teachers are only 77% of other professionals the other professionals work roughly 16%-20% more days per year...as i have been saying since the 1st post.
I'm guessing you aren't a teacher. It would be great to work 250 days a year as a teacher but do you think a child can sustain that level of academic rigor 12 months out of a year? Kids need a break. It sounds like you are a little jealous of the time off, benefits and salary. My advice to you is to go back to school, get a degree in whatever you want to teach and try it out for 3 or 4 years.
Geezuz, Scruffy.
Where the hell ya been? These guys are busting our chops. We've needed you. It's hostile in here.
I ve been working long hours at my summer job! Who knew after 15 years of teaching I would still need to have a summer job.
Maybe if you worked 77% of what the real professionals work you wouldn't have to work a summer job. Could be on the beach working on your melanoma
Bentley's a glass half full kind of guy. Working your ass off, Scruffy, will not get you melanoma... unless, of course, you're cleaning some 'real' professional's pool (who's out working 100% somewhere) or something.
I was attempting sarcasm McGruff is the perfect example of a teacher who has to work a summer job in addition to teaching.
Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.
And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for days actually worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194. Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.
When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.
You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.
thanks for proving my point. so you work 180-194 days per year. most office professionals are closer to 250 days per year (5 days per week for 52 weeks minus holidays). so while salaries for teachers are only 77% of other professionals the other professionals work roughly 16%-20% more days per year...as i have been saying since the 1st post.
I'm guessing you aren't a teacher. It would be great to work 250 days a year as a teacher but do you think a child can sustain that level of academic rigor 12 months out of a year? Kids need a break. It sounds like you are a little jealous of the time off, benefits and salary. My advice to you is to go back to school, get a degree in whatever you want to teach and try it out for 3 or 4 years.
Geezuz, Scruffy.
Where the hell ya been? These guys are busting our chops. We've needed you. It's hostile in here.
I ve been working long hours at my summer job! Who knew after 15 years of teaching I would still need to have a summer job.
Maybe if you worked 77% of what the real professionals work you wouldn't have to work a summer job. Could be on the beach working on your melanoma
Bentley's a glass half full kind of guy. Working your ass off, Scruffy, will not get you melanoma... unless, of course, you're cleaning some 'real' professional's pool (who's out working 100% somewhere) or something.
I was attempting sarcasm McGruff is the perfect example of a teacher who has to work a summer job in addition to teaching.
Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.
And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for days actually worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194. Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.
When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.
You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.
thanks for proving my point. so you work 180-194 days per year. most office professionals are closer to 250 days per year (5 days per week for 52 weeks minus holidays). so while salaries for teachers are only 77% of other professionals the other professionals work roughly 16%-20% more days per year...as i have been saying since the 1st post.
I'm guessing you aren't a teacher. It would be great to work 250 days a year as a teacher but do you think a child can sustain that level of academic rigor 12 months out of a year? Kids need a break. It sounds like you are a little jealous of the time off, benefits and salary. My advice to you is to go back to school, get a degree in whatever you want to teach and try it out for 3 or 4 years.
Geezuz, Scruffy.
Where the hell ya been? These guys are busting our chops. We've needed you. It's hostile in here.
I ve been working long hours at my summer job! Who knew after 15 years of teaching I would still need to have a summer job.
Maybe if you worked 77% of what the real professionals work you wouldn't have to work a summer job. Could be on the beach working on your melanoma
Bentley's a glass half full kind of guy. Working your ass off, Scruffy, will not get you melanoma... unless, of course, you're cleaning some 'real' professional's pool (who's out working 100% somewhere) or something.
I was attempting sarcasm McGruff is the perfect example of a teacher who has to work a summer job in addition to teaching.
yeah after 15 years of teaching i just cracked sixty grand. man I'm rolling in it!!!
Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.
And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for days actually worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194. Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.
When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.
You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.
thanks for proving my point. so you work 180-194 days per year. most office professionals are closer to 250 days per year (5 days per week for 52 weeks minus holidays). so while salaries for teachers are only 77% of other professionals the other professionals work roughly 16%-20% more days per year...as i have been saying since the 1st post.
I'm guessing you aren't a teacher. It would be great to work 250 days a year as a teacher but do you think a child can sustain that level of academic rigor 12 months out of a year? Kids need a break. It sounds like you are a little jealous of the time off, benefits and salary. My advice to you is to go back to school, get a degree in whatever you want to teach and try it out for 3 or 4 years.
Geezuz, Scruffy.
Where the hell ya been? These guys are busting our chops. We've needed you. It's hostile in here.
I ve been working long hours at my summer job! Who knew after 15 years of teaching I would still need to have a summer job.
Maybe if you worked 77% of what the real professionals work you wouldn't have to work a summer job. Could be on the beach working on your melanoma
Bentley's a glass half full kind of guy. Working your ass off, Scruffy, will not get you melanoma... unless, of course, you're cleaning some 'real' professional's pool (who's out working 100% somewhere) or something.
I was attempting sarcasm McGruff is the perfect example of a teacher who has to work a summer job in addition to teaching.
yeah after 15 years of teaching i just cracked sixty grand. man I'm rolling in it!!!
You unionized f@$=ers are overpaid
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,297
Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.
And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for days actually worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194. Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.
When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.
You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.
thanks for proving my point. so you work 180-194 days per year. most office professionals are closer to 250 days per year (5 days per week for 52 weeks minus holidays). so while salaries for teachers are only 77% of other professionals the other professionals work roughly 16%-20% more days per year...as i have been saying since the 1st post.
I'm guessing you aren't a teacher. It would be great to work 250 days a year as a teacher but do you think a child can sustain that level of academic rigor 12 months out of a year? Kids need a break. It sounds like you are a little jealous of the time off, benefits and salary. My advice to you is to go back to school, get a degree in whatever you want to teach and try it out for 3 or 4 years.
Geezuz, Scruffy.
Where the hell ya been? These guys are busting our chops. We've needed you. It's hostile in here.
I ve been working long hours at my summer job! Who knew after 15 years of teaching I would still need to have a summer job.
Maybe if you worked 77% of what the real professionals work you wouldn't have to work a summer job. Could be on the beach working on your melanoma
Bentley's a glass half full kind of guy. Working your ass off, Scruffy, will not get you melanoma... unless, of course, you're cleaning some 'real' professional's pool (who's out working 100% somewhere) or something.
I was attempting sarcasm McGruff is the perfect example of a teacher who has to work a summer job in addition to teaching.
yeah after 15 years of teaching i just cracked sixty grand. man I'm rolling in it!!!
good to see so many here clearly didn't understand the thread topic or how it started. not one person said teachers were overpaid. i hope you guys teach reading comprehension better than you do it here.
good to see so many here clearly didn't understand the thread topic or how it started. not one person said teachers were overpaid. i hope you guys teach reading comprehension better than you do it here.
that was a good one. I am clearly not paying attention/reading 10 pages of a thread because i've been drunk everyday at my shore house in the hamptons. where the hell is my butler with my tito's and club?
good to see so many here clearly didn't understand the thread topic or how it started. not one person said teachers were overpaid. i hope you guys teach reading comprehension better than you do it here.
I've done a horrible job trying to teach you.
Are you still struggling with the nurse/teacher comparison?
The one where nurses work fewer days and get paid nearly $20,000 more at every point of the pay grid in Canada...
... and the discrepancy is even greater in the US?
I have tried, but I simply cannot present it any other way to try and explain to you that your 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum compared to other professionals' claim is... simply put... not true.
good to see so many here clearly didn't understand the thread topic or how it started. not one person said teachers were overpaid. i hope you guys teach reading comprehension better than you do it here.
I've done a horrible job trying to teach you.
Are you still struggling with the nurse/teacher comparison?
The one where nurses work fewer days and get paid nearly $20,000 more at every point of the pay grid in Canada...
... and the discrepancy is even greater in the US?
I have tried, but I simply cannot present it any other way to try and explain to you that your 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum compared to other professionals' claim is... simply put... not true.
Nurses in Ontario do not work less than school teachers.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
good to see so many here clearly didn't understand the thread topic or how it started. not one person said teachers were overpaid. i hope you guys teach reading comprehension better than you do it here.
I've done a horrible job trying to teach you.
Are you still struggling with the nurse/teacher comparison?
The one where nurses work fewer days and get paid nearly $20,000 more at every point of the pay grid in Canada...
... and the discrepancy is even greater in the US?
I have tried, but I simply cannot present it any other way to try and explain to you that your 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum compared to other professionals' claim is... simply put... not true.
Nurses in Ontario do not work less than school teachers.
Comments
"I get paid a nickel you get paid a dime. That is why I shit on companies time"
No so in teaching. I'm sure it happens, but my experience with teaching is that if you are not on task as a teacher, chaos will ensue. In fact, I think this is (thus far) an unwritten law of physics: "Unproductive time in a classroom setting creates a void that leads to Chaos." I'm sure there must be some spoiled, over-paid laissez–faire teachers out there. I'd be willing to bet that Free, for example, would not tell us about such examples if they were not true or at least Free's honest perception of such. But, truly, I've never seen it!
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-EV 8/14/93
That said, no matter the profession, one should always be on task. Chaos can ensue regardless of a particular line of work.
As said before, I get my shit done, dammit
Where the hell ya been? These guys are busting our chops. We've needed you. It's hostile in here.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
You come out west to Canada and I'll show you how to snap a rubber band of your thumb and just drill someone.
Thennnnnn... I go east coast and bust a few caps in some teacher hater paper targets. We'll take pictures... post them on here... then watch people sing our praises. Of course, then they'll see our selfies where you happen to tuck your PJ T-shirt into your fruit of the looms... and the hating will start all over again.
Yup. I can picture the whole thing. It'll likely be pretty damn fun.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
McGruff is the perfect example of a teacher who has to work a summer job in addition to teaching.
I was simply adding to it.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Are you still struggling with the nurse/teacher comparison?
The one where nurses work fewer days and get paid nearly $20,000 more at every point of the pay grid in Canada...
... and the discrepancy is even greater in the US?
I have tried, but I simply cannot present it any other way to try and explain to you that your 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum compared to other professionals' claim is... simply put... not true.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon