Something about teacher's pay...

what dreams

Free said:

And yeah, individually bargained contracts. And since you say, what dreams, you have no Union where you are yet you have a contract about how long you work and that you can't work past 240 in the afternoon, etc. who's contract is it then.

Jesus F-ING Christ. I didn't say I CAN'T work past 2:40. I said anything I do past 2:40 is free labor, so I'm very judicious about what I do for free. For someone whose handle is Free, you can't understand free? Do you know anything about contract law? My district's lawyers write ours. A contract can be written by anyone. Doesn't take a union. I know as a teacher's aide you probably don't have one, so I can sort of see why you're confused????

Free

Good thing I can ignore certain people. Especially those who use Gaslighting in attempting to manipulate. Ha!

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Free said:

OffSheGoes35 said:

Free, do you actually want to know why no teachers are discussing common core? It is because they are too busy defending themselves against your assertion that their careers are one big perkfest.

Please explain how a week or more for Christmas break, bank holidays, thanksgiving, spring break, winter break, Snow days, and summer break are not perks. Anyone working in a professional Field don't get half of that off. Hawks and I are simply pointing that fact out with many people excusing it while also pointing out that it is a full-time job. With all that time off, and the full-time pay, pension and tenure the teachers in my state get at least, it deserves speculation. In other states were teachers get low pay, I am not saying they should, but comparing the time and days worked, the pay might be more in line.

Yup. Correct. You... and one other person- pjhawks (who seems more moderate) are continuing with this assertion.

I posted a model of comparison for you. I posted- twice now- the pay structures and typical work schedules- for teachers and nurses in a side by side format.

You both have ignored the comparison which clearly shows nurses work the same amount of days and get paid more (much more in fact).

As expressed, I am not begrudging nurses of anything- they deserve all they get and more. I posted it to squash your biased claim.

PJ_Soul

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

A lot of professions offer "tenure" in one form or another. It's just not called tenure.

As I mentioned already, that time off for teachers is needed. Otherwise the system would be stuffed with way overstressed teachers who would be rendered ineffective. That kind of work can't be maintained at a reasonable level constantly for the entire year. They'd start having mental breakdowns, stress leave would skyrocket. You try spending 5 days a week stuck in a room with 30+ of other people's kids and see how you feel.

So teaching is the only overly stressed job is that what you're saying? Because anyone working long hours 50+ or more is prone to burn out. I've been there and I worked in marketing.

Please tell me which professions offer tenure other than teaching.

Why would you think that's what I'm saying?? I never hinted that that is what I was saying, what a strange leap for you to take. But teaching is the only profession where someone spend the whole day with so many kids. Working 50 hours at a desk isn't not in any way comparable to spending days with a room full of children and trying to actually teach them things and trying to make them decent people (often against all odds given their home lives). I don't know why you keep comparing office jobs with teaching. It makes no sense.... Add to that the unbelievable burden that parents have been allowed to become on teachers.... I'd take 50+ hours a week in marketing any day. I barely know how teachers do it.

Uh, ever heard of seniority??? It amounts to the same thing in many industries.

Free

You guys can try to prove me wrong on the part-time job aspect all you want. I have family in teaching, I work in a school, I know. My sisters hate it when I tell them they have a part-time job toO, yet they gloat about all the time off they have.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

eddiec said:

Many of the people who complain about teachers and their days off are the same people who can't wait for summer to end so they can throw their child, along with 30 other kids, into a classroom presided over by a teacher.

One here has already stated she wants her kid back in the classroom instead of at the house for summer break.

eddiec

Free said:

You guys can try to prove me wrong on the part-time job aspect all you want. I have family in teaching, I work in a school, I know. My sisters hate it when I tell them they have a part-time job toO, yet they gloat about all the time off they have.

Maybe if your attitude towards them was different they wouldn't gloat.

Free

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

eddiec said:

Many of the people who complain about teachers and their days off are the same people who can't wait for summer to end so they can throw their child, along with 30 other kids, into a classroom presided over by a teacher.

One here has already stated she wants her kid back in the classroom instead of at the house for summer break.

Not sure if you are talking about me, I don't really care. I have a special needs student who needs daily practice. There's nobody in my house waiting for school to start because it's year-round at our house.

Free

eddiec said:

Free said:

You guys can try to prove me wrong on the part-time job aspect all you want. I have family in teaching, I work in a school, I know. My sisters hate it when I tell them they have a part-time job toO, yet they gloat about all the time off they have.

Maybe if your attitude towards them was different they wouldn't gloat.

No, especially at Christmas, my sisters love to rub it in that they don't have to go back to work the next day or the next day or the next.

PJ_Soul

Free said:

You guys can try to prove me wrong on the part-time job aspect all you want. I have family in teaching, I work in a school, I know. My sisters hate it when I tell them they have a part-time job toO, yet they gloat about all the time off they have.

Yeah, we know. You know everything and you're smarter and more insightful than the rest of us put together. You know more about teaching than teachers even! Certainly more than me whose parents were both educators (mom a teacher, dad a principal). Very impressive.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Free said:

You guys can try to prove me wrong on the part-time job aspect all you want. I have family in teaching, I work in a school, I know. My sisters hate it when I tell them they have a part-time job toO, yet they gloat about all the time off they have.

Lol.

Stupid me. I've been arguing with an expert who has formulated her opinions from her sisters expressing joy on their time off. Who the hell likes time off to be a human being?

Get back to work you lazy sisters!

Gawd, my head really hurts now.

dankind

Even though I was likely high as fuck, I can distinctly remember my buddy and I ordering a pizza on a Friday night after our high school football game and opening the door to Mr. Newsome (our English teacher) delivering that pizza.

That was the day I decided not to be a high school English teacher. Up until that night, it was my career goal.

pjhawks

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

And kids need time to be kids. You adults need to shake your heads if you think kids should be in school over the summer.

Were your childhoods that disappointing? Yikes.

no one has advocated that. it's really not this hard to follow the discussion. teachers work less and get paid less but apparently pointing that out is somehow wrong.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

pjhawks said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

And kids need time to be kids. You adults need to shake your heads if you think kids should be in school over the summer.

Were your childhoods that disappointing? Yikes.

no one has advocated that. it's really not this hard to follow the discussion. teachers work less and get paid less but apparently pointing that out is somehow wrong.

Still waiting, Hawks.

You're fraudulent in this discussion.

pjhawks

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Free said:

OffSheGoes35 said:

Free, do you actually want to know why no teachers are discussing common core? It is because they are too busy defending themselves against your assertion that their careers are one big perkfest.

Please explain how a week or more for Christmas break, bank holidays, thanksgiving, spring break, winter break, Snow days, and summer break are not perks. Anyone working in a professional Field don't get half of that off. Hawks and I are simply pointing that fact out with many people excusing it while also pointing out that it is a full-time job. With all that time off, and the full-time pay, pension and tenure the teachers in my state get at least, it deserves speculation. In other states were teachers get low pay, I am not saying they should, but comparing the time and days worked, the pay might be more in line.

Yup. Correct. You... and one other person- pjhawks (who seems more moderate) are continuing with this assertion.

I posted a model of comparison for you. I posted- twice now- the pay structures and typical work schedules- for teachers and nurses in a side by side format.

You both have ignored the comparison which clearly shows nurses work the same amount of days and get paid more (much more in fact).

As expressed, I am not begrudging nurses of anything- they deserve all they get and more. I posted it to squash your biased claim.

you are in Canada. I know nothing about work rules or what goes on in Canada so i can't make any comment on nurses vs. teachers in Canda.

pjhawks

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

A lot of professions offer "tenure" in one form or another. It's just not called tenure.

As I mentioned already, that time off for teachers is needed. Otherwise the system would be stuffed with way overstressed teachers who would be rendered ineffective. That kind of work can't be maintained at a reasonable level constantly for the entire year. They'd start having mental breakdowns, stress leave would skyrocket. You try spending 5 days a week stuck in a room with 30+ of other people's kids and see how you feel.

So teaching is the only overly stressed job is that what you're saying? Because anyone working long hours 50+ or more is prone to burn out. I've been there and I worked in marketing.

Please tell me which professions offer tenure other than teaching.

Why would you think that's what I'm saying?? I never hinted that that is what I was saying, what a strange leap for you to take. But teaching is the only profession where someone spend the whole day with so many kids. Working 50 hours at a desk isn't not in any way comparable to spending days with a room full of children and trying to actually teach them things and trying to make them decent people (often against all odds given their home lives). I don't know why you keep comparing office jobs with teaching. It makes no sense.... Add to that the unbelievable burden that parents have been allowed to become on teachers.... I'd take 50+ hours a week in marketing any day. I barely know how teachers do it.

Uh, ever heard of seniority??? It amounts to the same thing in many industries.

seniority vs. tenure is not close the same thing. once you have tenure as a teacher it is almost impossible to get fired. i know many people in 'senior' positions in business who lost their jobs. not equivalent...try again.

pjhawks

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

pjhawks said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

And kids need time to be kids. You adults need to shake your heads if you think kids should be in school over the summer.

Were your childhoods that disappointing? Yikes.

no one has advocated that. it's really not this hard to follow the discussion. teachers work less and get paid less but apparently pointing that out is somehow wrong.

Still waiting, Hawks.

You're fraudulent in this discussion.

well my response is above but ill repeat it as maybe the internet doesn't connect as fast up north. your example was in canada. I know nothing about Canadian business or how things work up there other than you have great hockery and great beer. i don't feel i can comment on Canadian teachers vs. nurses.

PJ_Soul

pjhawks said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

A lot of professions offer "tenure" in one form or another. It's just not called tenure.

As I mentioned already, that time off for teachers is needed. Otherwise the system would be stuffed with way overstressed teachers who would be rendered ineffective. That kind of work can't be maintained at a reasonable level constantly for the entire year. They'd start having mental breakdowns, stress leave would skyrocket. You try spending 5 days a week stuck in a room with 30+ of other people's kids and see how you feel.

So teaching is the only overly stressed job is that what you're saying? Because anyone working long hours 50+ or more is prone to burn out. I've been there and I worked in marketing.

Please tell me which professions offer tenure other than teaching.

Why would you think that's what I'm saying?? I never hinted that that is what I was saying, what a strange leap for you to take. But teaching is the only profession where someone spend the whole day with so many kids. Working 50 hours at a desk isn't not in any way comparable to spending days with a room full of children and trying to actually teach them things and trying to make them decent people (often against all odds given their home lives). I don't know why you keep comparing office jobs with teaching. It makes no sense.... Add to that the unbelievable burden that parents have been allowed to become on teachers.... I'd take 50+ hours a week in marketing any day. I barely know how teachers do it.

Uh, ever heard of seniority??? It amounts to the same thing in many industries.

seniority vs. tenure is not close the same thing. once you have tenure as a teacher it is almost impossible to get fired. i know many people in 'senior' positions in business who lost their jobs. not equivalent...try again.

Having a senior position and having seniority is not the same thing. It's almost impossible to get fired in any union without very good cause and only through progressive discipline, just like with teachers (some teachers unions are better than others). A lot of unions around in a lot of industries. Try again.
I am pro-union btw, but not pro-bad-union. I think ensuring that workers are only fired for just cause is a great thing, and many unions ensure that. But I don't support those unions that really make it impossible to fire completely incompetent employees.

pjhawks

PJ_Soul said:

pjhawks said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

A lot of professions offer "tenure" in one form or another. It's just not called tenure.

As I mentioned already, that time off for teachers is needed. Otherwise the system would be stuffed with way overstressed teachers who would be rendered ineffective. That kind of work can't be maintained at a reasonable level constantly for the entire year. They'd start having mental breakdowns, stress leave would skyrocket. You try spending 5 days a week stuck in a room with 30+ of other people's kids and see how you feel.

So teaching is the only overly stressed job is that what you're saying? Because anyone working long hours 50+ or more is prone to burn out. I've been there and I worked in marketing.

Please tell me which professions offer tenure other than teaching.

Why would you think that's what I'm saying?? I never hinted that that is what I was saying, what a strange leap for you to take. But teaching is the only profession where someone spend the whole day with so many kids. Working 50 hours at a desk isn't not in any way comparable to spending days with a room full of children and trying to actually teach them things and trying to make them decent people (often against all odds given their home lives). I don't know why you keep comparing office jobs with teaching. It makes no sense.... Add to that the unbelievable burden that parents have been allowed to become on teachers.... I'd take 50+ hours a week in marketing any day. I barely know how teachers do it.

Uh, ever heard of seniority??? It amounts to the same thing in many industries.

seniority vs. tenure is not close the same thing. once you have tenure as a teacher it is almost impossible to get fired. i know many people in 'senior' positions in business who lost their jobs. not equivalent...try again.

Having a senior position and having seniority is not the same thing. It's almost impossible to get fired in any union without very good cause and only through progressive discipline, just like with teachers. A lot of unions around.

not a lot of professions with college degrees are unionized (again back to the original study presented in the OP). almost none in business positions. try again.

PJ_Soul

pjhawks said:

PJ_Soul said:

pjhawks said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

A lot of professions offer "tenure" in one form or another. It's just not called tenure.

As I mentioned already, that time off for teachers is needed. Otherwise the system would be stuffed with way overstressed teachers who would be rendered ineffective. That kind of work can't be maintained at a reasonable level constantly for the entire year. They'd start having mental breakdowns, stress leave would skyrocket. You try spending 5 days a week stuck in a room with 30+ of other people's kids and see how you feel.

So teaching is the only overly stressed job is that what you're saying? Because anyone working long hours 50+ or more is prone to burn out. I've been there and I worked in marketing.

Please tell me which professions offer tenure other than teaching.

Why would you think that's what I'm saying?? I never hinted that that is what I was saying, what a strange leap for you to take. But teaching is the only profession where someone spend the whole day with so many kids. Working 50 hours at a desk isn't not in any way comparable to spending days with a room full of children and trying to actually teach them things and trying to make them decent people (often against all odds given their home lives). I don't know why you keep comparing office jobs with teaching. It makes no sense.... Add to that the unbelievable burden that parents have been allowed to become on teachers.... I'd take 50+ hours a week in marketing any day. I barely know how teachers do it.

Uh, ever heard of seniority??? It amounts to the same thing in many industries.

seniority vs. tenure is not close the same thing. once you have tenure as a teacher it is almost impossible to get fired. i know many people in 'senior' positions in business who lost their jobs. not equivalent...try again.

Having a senior position and having seniority is not the same thing. It's almost impossible to get fired in any union without very good cause and only through progressive discipline, just like with teachers. A lot of unions around.

not a lot of professions with college degrees are unionized (again back to the original study presented in the OP). almost none in business positions. try again.

Do you know how idiotic that "try again" thing is?
Anyway, TONS of professions that require degrees are unionized. Ever heard of universities? This university educated person who works at one has. I'm union and so is every single administrator and professor and teaching assistant in every university in Canada. And so are teachers. All university educated. And so are engineers, city administrators, and so on and so and so on. I am aware that private businesses are not union.