Something about teacher's pay...

1101113151618

Comments

  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,473
    edited May 2018
    I only agree with the textbook part.
    Who would monitor the kids on ipads?
    Someone will always have to hold kids accountable. A 6 year old kid can;t sit at home alone on an ipad and learn from some teacher far away. They will need a place to go to, parents will need a place to drop them off or they will continue to pay more in childcare than they would in increased education funding. 
    That design might work for a continuation or trade school, or schools in rural areas when the entire district has only 30 kids. But schools will always be around for the majority of students. Kids can't learn everything from an ipad, 1 teacher can't help and assist hundreds of students from an ipad. 
    And when some smaller districts start to go that route, parents are going to realize paying $1000 a month in childcare because there's no school to drop kids off anymore is a heck of a lot more expensive than that 0.25% tax increase they voted against to find education. 
    Nearly half the schools in Colorado have moved to a 4-day week to accommodate lower teacher pay, and parents are already finding they have to take Fridays off to watch kids or pay for childcare 1-day a week. Many aren't happy. 
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,486
    Districts are already broke, the entire thing will be drastically reduced, there is no funding and you can't just tax the people into compliance.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 26,896
    mace1229 said:
    Surprised this thread has been inactive for so long with the strikes and walkouts going on.
    I'm in COlorado, where 1 week ago there was a state-wide walkout. I heard several parents complain about childcare issues, even a radio DJ had something negative about teachers to say because of the walkouts.
    Well, when the state just approved the biggest budget increase in 10 years this is how it has impact teacher pay. Our local district just approved a pay increase of $450, that comes to about $37/month. But our monthly healthcare costs are going up by $60/month next year, not to mention all other factors of inflation, so was it really a raise? You'd think we got early retirement by the way they board praises themselves over this "raise."
    A new teacher in my district actually only makes about $28,000 if they are on the district's healthcare plan. 
    That's a sad state of affairs, Mace.  It's shameful how poorly this country values it's teachers.  I'm told that in Japan, teachers are considered to be professionals on the level of doctors and lawyers and such.  And the level of education their kids attain reflects that. 

    As for will public schools exist in 20 years?  I would guess, yes.  I hope so at least, if for no other reason than with so many kids glued to their iPhones, Androids, etc., school might be kid's only opportunity to learn some socializing skills.
    “Finding beauty in a broken world is creating beauty in the world we find.”
    -Terry Tempest Williams
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.






  • Dismantling the public education system is not the answer in my mind.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 17,982
    unsung said:
    Government schools won't exist in 20 years as they currently do.

    An ipad will automate out the teacher, one course instructor will guide hundreds of students.  Textbook manufacturing will dwindle to nearly nothing.  Students will eventually all be taught at home.
    Wayyyyyy too much money in textbooks to eliminate that.  The people whom make them are in the pockets of politicians anyways
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 18,607
    unsung said:
    Government schools won't exist in 20 years as they currently do.

    An ipad will automate out the teacher, one course instructor will guide hundreds of students.  Textbook manufacturing will dwindle to nearly nothing.  Students will eventually all be taught at home.
    Wayyyyyy too much money in textbooks to eliminate that.  The people whom make them are in the pockets of politicians anyways
    Pretty much all of our textbooks are online now. Each one our middle school students gets a nice fancy apple Computer.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 46,807
    unsung said:
    Government schools won't exist in 20 years as they currently do.

    An ipad will automate out the teacher, one course instructor will guide hundreds of students.  Textbook manufacturing will dwindle to nearly nothing.  Students will eventually all be taught at home.
    Wayyyyyy too much money in textbooks to eliminate that.  The people whom make them are in the pockets of politicians anyways
    I'm in the industry, and that certainly isn't true in Canada, and I do work with some major textbook publishers in the USA and they don't operate like that either.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,486
    Remember Encyclopedias?
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,473
    edited May 2018
    unsung said:
    I have a lot of issues with those arguments.
    True that in some states teachers are paid very well. 
    But many states the wages are far below the cost of living (and also compared to other careers that require similar or even less education). Places like New York, yes a teacher may make 70K within 5 or 10 years, but when a single bedroom condo costs 500k+, or a small apartment is $2500 to rent that doesn't really go that far.
    I lived in Southern California. One was San diego about 10 years ago, where a starting teacher made about 36k (now I think it is a little higher). 36k doesn't go very far when an apartment rents for $1500 a month. It was very difficult to be single, you could not afford to live by yourself as an adult if you were single. Much of Southern California was this way, the pay did not come close to reflecting the cost of living.
     Cost of living in Colorado, the latest state to push for walkouts, has shot up in cost of living because the state has grown so much in the last 5 years, we are 42 when it comes to teacher pay. Not to mention the average salary that states post are also not accurate. Colorado we pay about $10,000 a year for health insurance, when many other states the health insurance is mostly if not all covered by the employer, here it is about half. Add taxes, retirement and all other deductions and you end up with a teacher contract for $50,000 (and to get to that point requires about 15 years experience and an MA) only ends up taking home about $30,000 a year. 
    As I mentioned earlier, in most areas of Colorado the cost of just health insurance alone has increased at a much higher rate than wages. Forget about the cost of housing and dozens of other factors that contribute to an increase cost of living, they are getting pay deductions each year just with increased cost of health insurance.
    That article was clearly biased and from a standpoint that teachers are lazy and get what they deserve and ignored many of those factors.
    Some states, like Wyoming, they do make very good wages. This is because no one wants to go there and they have to offer high wages to get people to move from somewhere like Colorado. Teachers in Wyoming make about $10,000 more compared to Colorado and the cost of living in less. But the catch is you have to live in Wyoming. 
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,473
    edited May 2018
    If you're curious how much teachers make in my area this is a good example. The local paper reported this district as the highest paying in the county.
    If you're not familiar with this scale, the #1-26 on the left represent years of experience, and the top represents education. So yes a teacher can make close to 80k here, if they have a Masters AND a something close to a PHD equivalent (72 graduate level units) and 26 years of teaching experience. How many people with a PHD do you know that work in the same place for 26 years and only make 80k? I don't know any.
    A teacher with a masters starts out at 42,900, a masters and 10 years experience makes 49,900.  If all you ever get is a BA, then your max pay is 46k. You have to spend more time and a lot of money to earn additional, graduate level credits to increase pay. This is expensive and slow. Earn a Masters after your BA and you get a whopping 5k added to your pay.
    Not to mention about $1000 a month will be taken out of this pay for benefits. Then deductions for taxes, medicare, retirement etc is another $700 or $800 a month
    And that retirement the article bragged about so much, well that is self-funded. Money is taken out of your paycheck and placed into a fund. No retirement is given to teachers in this state, it is basically a stock market that is managed for you with your own money. The only problem is if you die 2 years after you retire your wife or kids never see that money that you put into for 30 years, it goes back into the pension fund (yes there is that potential to live to 100 and get more back than you put in). Stock market managed by me and not on my behalf actually sounds like a better deal.
    So you still think they are overpaid? 

    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,486
    I have never said that they are overpaid, but I don't for a single second believe that they are underpaid.
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 18,607
    mace1229 said:
    If you're curious how much teachers make in my area this is a good example. The local paper reported this district as the highest paying in the county.
    If you're not familiar with this scale, the #1-26 on the left represent years of experience, and the top represents education. So yes a teacher can make close to 80k here, if they have a Masters AND a something close to a PHD equivalent (72 graduate level units) and 26 years of teaching experience. How many people with a PHD do you know that work in the same place for 26 years and only make 80k? I don't know any.
    A teacher with a masters starts out at 42,900, a masters and 10 years experience makes 49,900.  If all you ever get is a BA, then your max pay is 46k. You have to spend more time and a lot of money to earn additional, graduate level credits to increase pay. This is expensive and slow. Earn a Masters after your BA and you get a whopping 5k added to your pay.
    Not to mention about $1000 a month will be taken out of this pay for benefits. Then deductions for taxes, medicare, retirement etc is another $700 or $800 a month
    And that retirement the article bragged about so much, well that is self-funded. Money is taken out of your paycheck and placed into a fund. No retirement is given to teachers in this state, it is basically a stock market that is managed for you with your own money. The only problem is if you die 2 years after you retire your wife or kids never see that money that you put into for 30 years, it goes back into the pension fund (yes there is that potential to live to 100 and get more back than you put in). Stock market managed by me and not on my behalf actually sounds like a better deal.
    So you still think they are overpaid? 

    So you pretty much need to get a masters to make any sort of money. By the time you get to the top you d be retired. Lol. Shitty guide
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,473
    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    If you're curious how much teachers make in my area this is a good example. The local paper reported this district as the highest paying in the county.
    If you're not familiar with this scale, the #1-26 on the left represent years of experience, and the top represents education. So yes a teacher can make close to 80k here, if they have a Masters AND a something close to a PHD equivalent (72 graduate level units) and 26 years of teaching experience. How many people with a PHD do you know that work in the same place for 26 years and only make 80k? I don't know any.
    A teacher with a masters starts out at 42,900, a masters and 10 years experience makes 49,900.  If all you ever get is a BA, then your max pay is 46k. You have to spend more time and a lot of money to earn additional, graduate level credits to increase pay. This is expensive and slow. Earn a Masters after your BA and you get a whopping 5k added to your pay.
    Not to mention about $1000 a month will be taken out of this pay for benefits. Then deductions for taxes, medicare, retirement etc is another $700 or $800 a month
    And that retirement the article bragged about so much, well that is self-funded. Money is taken out of your paycheck and placed into a fund. No retirement is given to teachers in this state, it is basically a stock market that is managed for you with your own money. The only problem is if you die 2 years after you retire your wife or kids never see that money that you put into for 30 years, it goes back into the pension fund (yes there is that potential to live to 100 and get more back than you put in). Stock market managed by me and not on my behalf actually sounds like a better deal.
    So you still think they are overpaid? 

    So you pretty much need to get a masters to make any sort of money. By the time you get to the top you d be retired. Lol. Shitty guide
    Even with a masters, a new teacher on the district's health plan gets $1000 a month deducted. Add other deductions and your net pay is about $2,000 a month for someone with a MA. It will increase about $100 a month until you retire. 
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 6,258
    Here' what we know about public school teachers.
    They are...  
    Overpaid
    Underworked
     they are all unionized liberal elites
    And are government tools brainwashing our children
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 46,807
    mace, $10,000/year for health insurance???? What?! Are you serious?!
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 26,896
    Here' what we know about public school teachers.
    They are...  
    Overpaid
    Underworked
     they are all unionized liberal elites
    And are government tools brainwashing our children
    And lazy, don't forget lazy.
    And they all take three month vacations to go to Club Med locations every year.  Every summer, the Caribbean is completely swamped with lazy, overpaid, underworked, liberal elitist (except for McGruff :wink: ), child brainwashing government tools.  It's disgusting!
    “Finding beauty in a broken world is creating beauty in the world we find.”
    -Terry Tempest Williams
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.






  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 18,607
    brianlux said:
    Here' what we know about public school teachers.
    They are...  
    Overpaid
    Underworked
     they are all unionized liberal elites
    And are government tools brainwashing our children
    And lazy, don't forget lazy.
    And they all take three month vacations to go to Club Med locations every year.  Every summer, the Caribbean is completely swamped with lazy, overpaid, underworked, liberal elitist (except for McGruff :wink: ), child brainwashing government tools.  It's disgusting!
    Lol!  Besides actually teaching Monday through Friday I worked four other paying jobs this week: Monday i power washed, tues/wed I officiated track meets, wed night I ripped up a hot tub, and tomorrow I get to work as a pirate lol. Good times. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 6,258
    mcgruff10 said:
    brianlux said:
    Here' what we know about public school teachers.
    They are...  
    Overpaid
    Underworked
     they are all unionized liberal elites
    And are government tools brainwashing our children
    And lazy, don't forget lazy.
    And they all take three month vacations to go to Club Med locations every year.  Every summer, the Caribbean is completely swamped with lazy, overpaid, underworked, liberal elitist (except for McGruff :wink: ), child brainwashing government tools.  It's disgusting!
    Lol!  Besides actually teaching Monday through Friday I worked four other paying jobs this week: Monday i power washed, tues/wed I officiated track meets, wed night I ripped up a hot tub, and tomorrow I get to work as a pirate lol. Good times. 
    A pirate? 

    Who knew pirates were part of the unionized liberal elite
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 18,607
    mcgruff10 said:
    brianlux said:
    Here' what we know about public school teachers.
    They are...  
    Overpaid
    Underworked
     they are all unionized liberal elites
    And are government tools brainwashing our children
    And lazy, don't forget lazy.
    And they all take three month vacations to go to Club Med locations every year.  Every summer, the Caribbean is completely swamped with lazy, overpaid, underworked, liberal elitist (except for McGruff :wink: ), child brainwashing government tools.  It's disgusting!
    Lol!  Besides actually teaching Monday through Friday I worked four other paying jobs this week: Monday i power washed, tues/wed I officiated track meets, wed night I ripped up a hot tub, and tomorrow I get to work as a pirate lol. Good times. 
    A pirate? 

    Who knew pirates were part of the unionized liberal elite
    It's my summer job for four years now.  http://www.piratesonthemanasquan.com
    Everyone that works there pretty much is a teacher!  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,473
    PJ_Soul said:
    mace, $10,000/year for health insurance???? What?! Are you serious?!
    Wish I wasn’t.
    $763/month for health. That’s 9156, but dental and vision are extra, somewhere around $70/month I think. Puts the total for benefits right around 10k. One district in the city takes out 1200/month for health, that’s over 14k a year.

  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 46,807
    mace1229 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mace, $10,000/year for health insurance???? What?! Are you serious?!
    Wish I wasn’t.
    $763/month for health. That’s 9156, but dental and vision are extra, somewhere around $70/month I think. Puts the total for benefits right around 10k. One district in the city takes out 1200/month for health, that’s over 14k a year.

    This is insane... I actually am not quite sure how there isn't constant rioting in the streets across the country about this.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,473
    PJ_Soul said:
    mace1229 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mace, $10,000/year for health insurance???? What?! Are you serious?!
    Wish I wasn’t.
    $763/month for health. That’s 9156, but dental and vision are extra, somewhere around $70/month I think. Puts the total for benefits right around 10k. One district in the city takes out 1200/month for health, that’s over 14k a year.

    This is insane... I actually am not quite sure how there isn't constant rioting in the streets across the country about this.
    There probably will be next year
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,473
    The ironic part is with premiums that high our insurance is still terrible. We can’t afford to go to the doctor because we’d still end up paying so much. If anything major came up I’d likely just have to declare bankruptcy and skip on the bill anyway, I’d be better off without insurance.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 46,807
    edited May 2018
    mace1229 said:
    The ironic part is with premiums that high our insurance is still terrible. We can’t afford to go to the doctor because we’d still end up paying so much. If anything major came up I’d likely just have to declare bankruptcy and skip on the bill anyway, I’d be better off without insurance.
    I don't get how the majority of people can afford the insurance, let alone extra costs. So you pay all that and still have to pay out of pocket to see a doctor? Huh? Why? Is that insurance only for when you're so sick and injured you have to go to the hospital? This entire concept, at those rates, actually shocks the fuck out of me. Well, having a private health insurance system at all shocks the fuck out of me - profit comes from not providing the best care or even no care, which is a human rights violation IMO - but this is just worse. How does any kind of insurance cost that much, and why are people willing to pay it or support a system that works like that in any way? This make no sense to me - I'm a bit befuddled.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,473
    edited May 2018
    PJ_Soul said:
    mace1229 said:
    The ironic part is with premiums that high our insurance is still terrible. We can’t afford to go to the doctor because we’d still end up paying so much. If anything major came up I’d likely just have to declare bankruptcy and skip on the bill anyway, I’d be better off without insurance.
    I don't get how the majority of people can afford the insurance, let alone extra costs. This entire concept actually shocks the fuck out of me. How does any kind of insurance cost that much, and why are people willing to pay it or support a system that works like that in any way? This make no sense to me - I'm a bit befuddled.
    We have no choice, it is law to have it.
    many single people chose to not have it and pay the fines, but that doesn’t make sense for a family.

    im actually not completely against social medicine, but Obamacare just made it mandatory and the insurance companies have completely inflated the cost now that it’s required by law. All Obamacare did was require people to use an already flawed system. And and already underfunded education system means teachers pay for it by taking a quarter of their paycheck to fund healthcare.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 6,437
    mace1229 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mace1229 said:
    The ironic part is with premiums that high our insurance is still terrible. We can’t afford to go to the doctor because we’d still end up paying so much. If anything major came up I’d likely just have to declare bankruptcy and skip on the bill anyway, I’d be better off without insurance.
    I don't get how the majority of people can afford the insurance, let alone extra costs. This entire concept actually shocks the fuck out of me. How does any kind of insurance cost that much, and why are people willing to pay it or support a system that works like that in any way? This make no sense to me - I'm a bit befuddled.
    We have no choice, it is law to have it.
    many single people chose to not have it and pay the fines, but that doesn’t make sense for a family.

    im actually not completely against social medicine, but Obamacare just made it mandatory and the insurance companies have completely inflated the cost now that it’s required by law. All Obamacare did was require people to use an already flawed system.
    Our system makes zero sense. Way too expensive, and the only real winners are the insurance companies. I also pay about $10k for insurance and can't afford to use it because of co-pays and deductibles. If we put what we're paying in insurance premiums into a national health care system, and cut out the goddamned insurance companies, I'm guessing we'd have world class healthcare. Instead, we have some of the highest healthcare costs, but rank nowhere near the top in quality and mortality. Healthcare in this country is tragic.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,473
    jeffbr said:
    mace1229 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mace1229 said:
    The ironic part is with premiums that high our insurance is still terrible. We can’t afford to go to the doctor because we’d still end up paying so much. If anything major came up I’d likely just have to declare bankruptcy and skip on the bill anyway, I’d be better off without insurance.
    I don't get how the majority of people can afford the insurance, let alone extra costs. This entire concept actually shocks the fuck out of me. How does any kind of insurance cost that much, and why are people willing to pay it or support a system that works like that in any way? This make no sense to me - I'm a bit befuddled.
    We have no choice, it is law to have it.
    many single people chose to not have it and pay the fines, but that doesn’t make sense for a family.

    im actually not completely against social medicine, but Obamacare just made it mandatory and the insurance companies have completely inflated the cost now that it’s required by law. All Obamacare did was require people to use an already flawed system.
    Our system makes zero sense. Way too expensive, and the only real winners are the insurance companies. I also pay about $10k for insurance and can't afford to use it because of co-pays and deductibles. If we put what we're paying in insurance premiums into a national health care system, and cut out the goddamned insurance companies, I'm guessing we'd have world class healthcare. Instead, we have some of the highest healthcare costs, but rank nowhere near the top in quality and mortality. Healthcare in this country is tragic.
    Exactly. People don’t want social medicine because of the taxes, but look what we’re paying now, and health insurance is a billion dollar industry. Would rather the government make a little of that and fund stuff with it
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 18,607
    Mace what the hell are your co pays? We pay $10 pretty much for everything. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 46,807
    edited May 2018
    mace1229 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mace1229 said:
    The ironic part is with premiums that high our insurance is still terrible. We can’t afford to go to the doctor because we’d still end up paying so much. If anything major came up I’d likely just have to declare bankruptcy and skip on the bill anyway, I’d be better off without insurance.
    I don't get how the majority of people can afford the insurance, let alone extra costs. This entire concept actually shocks the fuck out of me. How does any kind of insurance cost that much, and why are people willing to pay it or support a system that works like that in any way? This make no sense to me - I'm a bit befuddled.
    We have no choice, it is law to have it.
    many single people chose to not have it and pay the fines, but that doesn’t make sense for a family.

    im actually not completely against social medicine, but Obamacare just made it mandatory and the insurance companies have completely inflated the cost now that it’s required by law. All Obamacare did was require people to use an already flawed system. And and already underfunded education system means teachers pay for it by taking a quarter of their paycheck to fund healthcare.
    I never thought well of Obamacare, except for the obvious, usual reasons anyone thought it was better than doing nothing (I do still think that). I think any kind of private basic health insurance system based on profit is completely fucked, no matter whose name is on it.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Sign In or Register to comment.